Relationship vs Religion
-
Lots of fast reaction from the forummers here.
All I can say is that are you in love? Next, does your better-half love you for who you are? I know about the yoking of believers and non-believers tend to be failures due to differences in culture. But nevertheless, the Bible did mention that in any marriage of believer and non-believer, the believer has to live right for both of them. -
Christian girl if she do not mind you not christian is good because she will tend to be kuai kuai one... but like I said, she will want to bring up your kids as christians. Since you do not care, I guess you do not mind that she bring your kids up in the faith.Originally posted by technoboy:Thanks for these replies prople.
Oh and I forgot to add something. Asked her why is it that important for both to be a christian. She answered "so that we will be able to pray for each other when there's anything, and also we'll be able to have the same kind of thinking". Although now she claims doesn't mind me being not a christian, she said she can't guarantee the future...
wa lao, you one lucky dude. -
"had a talk with my GF yesterday. Her mum just found out about about us together and objects to it since I am not a christian. She, too, told me that although she have feelings for me, this relationship will not last, main reason is also because I'm not a christian. She also said one of her BF criteria is that he must be a christian.
So I'm really feeling very depressed now. What should I do? I really don't know what to do as I am a strong believer of "seeing is believing". I also tried going to the church but I don't think it is suitable for me. Just feels wierd going there, especially when many strangers come and talk to me.
Really hope people here would be able to advise me on what to do! Should I even try going to the church again and make myself believe in it? (Although I know that at first the main reason for going will be because of her and not because of the religion itself). Or should I just continue to believe in my own things but have the risk of losing her? "
i'm a christian....haha...ya i did have the idea dat my partner has to be a christian too but..nah...i wont 1 dat coz if i dun go church they'll kill me...(nag nag nag) haha..n i'll have another mami? haha...i think they do so because they fear that if u're a christian u might get influnced by ur gf/bf. as a christian i feel dat God is forgiving so he wont mind me getting someone that is a non-christian though he mentioned in e bible...he is forgiving isnt he?
Oh and I forgot to add something. Asked her why is it that important for both to be a christian. She answered "so that we will be able to pray for each other when there's anything, and also we'll be able to have the same kind of thinking". Although now she claims doesn't mind me being not a christian, she said she can't guarantee the future...
if she loves u will she bother? she can still pray for u on her side.[/b] -
Because it's probably not just a matter of religion... It's more like a matter of belief... A religion which is of much importance to your gf's mum... And regardless of whatever stand your gf's holding.. It's quite unlikely that she could be going against her mum's will... Especially if she's obedient... Peer pressure..? Her current age factor...?Originally posted by technoboy:Her mum should be around 45+-
Yes, I would say she is obedient to her mum... Why do you ask that?
I think you should give her more time to get a better control of the situation if possible... Unless she's rejecting in the face at this point? That would be quite beyond your move...? -
If you see a group of people throwing rubbish and broken glass bottles at an innocent old man on the streets, and nobody is doing anything to stop them. Do you think that would give you a reason to join themOriginally posted by laurence82:For the sake of the threadstarter, the mod cannot have wishy washy definition of the term 'religious comments' so as to 'help' the threadstarter sift objective views from religious comments.
Religious comments does not neccessarily mean verses exclusively, and as far as I can see, despite two warnings, other forumers have continued doing so, including
a)a challenge to churn out a verses or two to
b) terms insinuating the mother might have been mistaken about her faith
c) telling someone else Catholics and Christians are two different people
d) a personal statement on the Bible, a description of the Christian fellowship, a statement exhorting topicstarter to believe in Jesus, not for the gf
Want me to name some more?
Because mod has failed to define 'religious comments', they have continued doing so in various guises or statements, and fail to sift them out from objective views. Has mod aid or guide the forumers to present their own objective views to the topicstarter?
i think not
I have addressed this before and I shall address this again. Mods are not paid a cent for their service. They have a job which they need to commit to in life because the forum is not going to keep them alive. And they have life of their own out there. They're not lifeless softwares.Originally posted by laurence82:To make sure mods up to task to guide and not doing things at their whims and fancy
-
Despite two warnings and cautions from fellow members? You think I would have post if I think he have worded his terms carefully to stop people?
Its more of an issue of his definitions of 'religious comments'.
Again, why the siege mentality? Everytime the mods were questioned on certain lapses, why the feeling its an attack or attempt to question their whole moderator duty, to the extent they try to bring forth a point that being a mod is difficult etc etc?
MC knew very well, that I always tell people, its more of acknowledging the lapses, pick up the pieces and move on.
Nice analogy about the rubbish part, but I think they are inadequate to address the context of this issue, and like i always tell people, be cautious when it comes to using analogies. -
Definition: Religions comments WITH INTENT to challenge Faiths, and irresponsible statements against people of 'particular' faith.Originally posted by laurence82:Despite two warnings and cautions from fellow members? You think I would have post if I think he have worded his terms carefully to stop people?
Its more of an issue of his definitions of 'religious comments'.
Again, why the siege mentality? Everytime the mods were questioned on certain lapses, why the feeling its an attack or attempt to question their whole moderator duty, to the extent they try to bring forth a point that being a mod is difficult etc etc?
MC knew very well, that I always tell people, its more of acknowledging the lapses, pick up the pieces and move on.
Nice analogy about the rubbish part, but I think they are inadequate to address the context of this issue, and like i always tell people, be cautious when it comes to using analogies.
-In short - No flaming, no debates.
Any post which speaks of the religion more THAN helping threadstarter are religious comments.
We also know some are sensible and sound. Especially attempt to help threadstarter understand the situation in religious perspective. However, too much of it will again be REMINDED.
It's difficult to draw the line. I personally acknowledge the weakness; yet it is the strength of AA.
There is no definition, just for the benefit of doubt to those matured and sensitive enough to catch those reminders and warnings.
If otherwise, AA is not the place for them.
There are no absolutes in Counselling. Likewise in AA, yes!
There are principles and guides to follow.
There's also this humane part of counselling which blurs the line between rules and compassion.
This is my personal view. -
If you're asking me? I think MC's doing a GREAT JOB in his UPKEEPING JOB as a MODERATOR...Originally posted by laurence82:Despite two warnings and cautions from fellow members? You think I would have post if I think he have worded his terms carefully to stop people?
Its more of an issue of his definitions of 'religious comments'.
Again, why the siege mentality? Everytime the mods were questioned on certain lapses, why the feeling its an attack or attempt to question their whole moderator duty, to the extent they try to bring forth a point that being a mod is difficult etc etc?
MC knew very well, that I always tell people, its more of acknowledging the lapses, pick up the pieces and move on.
Nice analogy about the rubbish part, but I think they are inadequate to address the context of this issue, and like i always tell people, be cautious when it comes to using analogies.
IN FACT, he's doing such a GREAT JOB that I've no intention to post anything to reply you in the 1st place...
UNDERSTAND that nobody's PERFECT. Not even a moderator... You wanna find a HOLE to DIG, you'll probably FIND (at least) ONE... Just depends on how LOW you're willing to go...
PERSONALLY, I DON'T CARE... I believe it's not the 1st day you've known me and I'm not new to the many other there... I just replied because I know you and out of courtesy... (pls do not misunderstand that it's because I mind the consequences... I just hate 'misunderstandings'..)
I know very well what I'm around for...
If I don't know you, you probably won't even be much entertained at all...
I think you should thank MC for his courtesy too...?
I know you always have lots of questions, but you should note the inappropriate action(s) you might have taken to come to your point also..? If you think a MOD is not doing it the 'right way', what makes you think we would be obligated to entertain a forumite who is doing it the 'wrong'...?
Just a comment for your own consideration.. You can choose to take it or leave it... End of the day, I won't be the one benefiting from it anyway... -
Another tragedy. I was a victim in this situation before. The ger is a strong believer of the religion. My advice is if u stay in this current situation more problems will surface. Sit down and talk to ur ger n see if u can work out anything..
All the best dude. -
Again, why keep harping on the moderator duty as a whole and the 'siege mentality'?
I have already pointed out the singular lapse of proper justifiable action and the implications. Like I said, lapses could be easily acknowledged, repaired and move on. You sound as if I wanted the moderator or moderators to shape out or ship out.
Your second response was a repeat of the first. Have you anymore points or those insinuating remarks, which I dont think its rather mature to respond to? -
You're arrogant and oblivious to the things you need to know and understand.Originally posted by laurence82:Again, why keep harping on the moderator duty as a whole and the 'siege mentality'?
I have already pointed out the singular lapse of proper justifiable action and the implications. Like I said, lapses could be easily acknowledged, repaired and move on. You sound as if I wanted the moderator or moderators to shape out or ship out.
Your second response was a repeat of the first. Have you anymore points or those insinuating remarks, which I dont think its rather mature to respond to?
If you think we have 'lapsed', we certainly hope you'll do your part as a forumite to
1. Read carefully the replies we've given to you and THINK OVER IT.
2. follow the rules of Sgforums. As much as you might find the analogy I've given to you about the innocent old man inappropriate, I would agree with you myself. But given the FACTS that I have to clear and go through AA in the middle of the night despite the fact that I would have to wake up very early the next day for work and knowing that Monday (and even the days which follow) would be too busy for me to backtrack events in AA; managing on a laptop which is giving me problems reading and replying the posts certainly doesn't help further. Least to mention that I have to entertain your post which would means more time and energy consumed. Why did I mentioned job? End of the day if I don't perform up to the standard on my job, who do you think is gonna be feeding me? You? Or Sgforums?
I did not really bother to reply your post. I think MC has been doing a great job. I know I might sound naggy repeating the same old things, so I guess some things people just fail to read and get the information into their head on the 1st note. I'm ok with that. Nobody's perfect.
About 'shape out' or 'ship out'. Me and MC have something in common. In fact, you think we really feel great as moderators in AA? What we wanted initially was to ADVISE people in need. The MOD job just came in so that we can better manage the situation.
Hereby I would like to APOLOGISE to MC if you're reading this. I'm sorry if you feel 'mistreated' and I've got you into this 'sh|tty' moderation thing.
I know your POINT and CONCERN as they're MINE as well... But if I didn't really need the HELP, I won't have asked from you. As much as I may think your attitude so this job may not be too pleasing myself, I strongly belieev nobody's perfect. Not even me. So you're doing a GREAT JOB. NO WORRIES.
Are we trying to be TOO NICE to you forumites in AA?
Lau. I thought of not entertaining you at all. But I know given your character (and a lot others' out there), you won't be pleased without a proper explanation given to you. Not that I feel obligated of course. I just feel like it. But do understand that given our time and energy limitation on this MODERATION thing, I would only come back to this thread when I'm quite free. (and that includes my rights to CRAP around ) But don't worry... Since I've decided to, I'll try to get back to you when I can...
THANKS MC. I think I'll take over from here. I know you've always been in a difficult position as well. Stuck between me and the forumites.
To begin with, I DID NOT wanted to continue with this because...
1. MODERATING is NOT my MAIN OBJECTIVE in AA. I'll rather be spending time despatching ADVICES. But of course, sometimes when threads get out of hands and defy the PURPOSE of giving PROPER ADVICES to those who need them.. MODERATION COMES IN.
2. ARGUES. Often leads to FLAMINGS. FLAMINGS are not encouraged in Sgforums. Not in AA. Not even if I'm a MODERATOR.
3. Like I've said earlier. This issue has been addressed before. You know how many forumites there are in this forum? As much as I believe that one can only be truly convinced if we bother to spend time explaining things to them instead of bashing them (family discipline). We're not handling just a small family here. You know how many forumites there are in AA? What would happen if people keep asking the same question again? I rather be spending time on more meaningful things (or relaxing). But of course, I know you won't be happy with my reply this way... As I certainly won't be much happy if a moderator tells me the same thing. All of us feels that we're 'unique' in a way... That's why we often don't see a bigger picture...
4. I've thought of 'shipping out' too. But if you can TRULY CONVINCE me of a person who can BETTER take the job, I'll be MORE THAN GLAD to 'SHIP OUT'. Till then, NO. I'm not likely to be ABANDONING AA.
5. This thread has it's OWN PURPOSE. I HATE to 'ENTERTAIN' people in a thread like this. It just BREAKS the thread.
6. This thread is of RELIGIOUS and FLAMING NATURE. Walking along with you on this would make us PUPPETS who walk RIGHT INTO people who tries to start up FLAMES in the 1st place. I'm not gonna let them have their 'objectives' achieved.
7. You've ALREADY BROKEN the RULES of Sgforums. We need not even be doing an arguement with you. So what if the others have done that too? We'll try to get to them too if we can. But that's NO EXCUSE for us to SPARE you. At this point, we're just trying to be 'friendly' and close one eye MOST of the time... Whatever 'arguements' which you might have that follows.. If you've shot a person, you've shot a person. Even if the others have shot people too won't make you any less of an evil. We take you on THAT, you've got NO GROUND for ANY ARGUEMENT.... -
I think the threadstarter better think twice before jumping in to become a christian.
Contrary to other people believe, I felt tat wat u believe in not really a choice. It is not as simple as going to church and follow the tiruals just because u have to do it. U really have to believe in EVERYTHING the bible had said and felt tat these practices r meaningful in order to follow it through your life. If u felt tat the religion is not true according to wat u preceive, then u really will felt the rituals u had done are simply rubbish and a waste of resources. Imaging every sunday going to church for a few hours, including exam period and your future short army weekened and tilthing away money tat can probably buy u another car or house in your life. On the long run it will toil on your life.
Secondly, I felt tat changing your belief just because of a girl is silly Remember tis decision will change not only your life but to those around u as well as your future decendents. From your passage I can deduce tat your parents r not christians. They could be freethinkers, buddhist or taoist or even muslim, wat do u think they will feel when u change your belief for your girlfriend Also your future decendent will probably be converted by their grandmother to be christians as well. If u felt tat the religion is rubbish, do u wanna see your children go the wrong way because u wanna be with a girl (Of course tis is on the premise tat u believe making a girlfriend is the intention to make her your wife. If u think girlfriend is only to pass this period of time now then I guess u can do anything want. )
My suggestions is these. U have to let the girl make the choice. Either accept u as wat u r now or better break up before feelings get too deep. U respect her religion and she respect your belief, otherwise it is not fair to u. Remember it is your girlfriend life, not your girlfriend's mother life. Otherwise might as well ask her mum to just pick her husband for her since she had no say in the matter. In the end she should show her determination in her choice.
Or u can just continue to go to church and hope tat u will be brainwash enough to really become a christian.
Or u brainwash her enough so she convert to your religion A christian is the same as any other beliefs, such as yours, and the exchange can goes 2 ways. Ask her to go to any place where your current religion is worshipping now and let her have a taste of how u feel. -
are u serious in the relationship? What is the relationship level? marriage level or BGR....What is ur age?
is she treasuring the relationship or her religious more.....
because normally if u are christian or one of the spouse is christian , u tend to follow himor her....
that is why christian usually marry christian... they have common topic....
but try going to church a few time then if u really dun like talk to her...... -
Ok people... let's not argue about what a Mod should have or not do. I believe both Devil and MC have their own separate style of care taking in AA and I do thank them for the years around here.
Ultimately, what usually matters are the advices that are being churned out.
Compared to other forums, Mods here usually don't exercise power unless things are obviously irrelevant.
In the end, what we all hope is for better contributions from everyone.
Let's work towards that, shall we?
Cheers -
Edited
-
Then it's not about religion. In fact, religion is just an excuse to break you guys up.Originally posted by technoboy:Her mum talked to her today again... Keep asking her to break up with me...
She said cos' we were of the same age and this would mean that I would be more immature when I'm with my GF... I don't know why she said that... Probably cos she wants to find more reasons to break us up...
Then the 2nd point again she said cos' I was not a christian... Then my GF said "what if he is a christian?" Her answer was still a "no". She said she just find us unsuitable...
I really felt depressed after hearing what she told me... What should I do now then?
Her mother just didn't want her to get attached. Period.
No reasons. Just unreasonable mother, over protective.
Cheers -
Then the issue is not whether u are a Christian or not.Originally posted by technoboy:Her mum talked to her today again... Keep asking her to break up with me...
She said cos' we were of the same age and this would mean that I would be more immature when I'm with my GF... I don't know why she said that... Probably cos she wants to find more reasons to break us up...
Then the 2nd point again she said cos' I was not a christian... Then my GF said "what if he is a christian?" Her answer was still a "no". She said she just find us unsuitable...
I really felt depressed after hearing what she told me... What should I do now then?
If the two of u want to be together, bear in mind there are lots of things for u all to go through.
Best wishes! -
Straight to the heart of the issue ...Originally posted by M©+square:Then it's not about religion. In fact, religion is just an excuse to break you guys up.
Her mother just didn't want her to get attached. Period.
No reasons. Just unreasonable mother, over protective.
Cheers -
sigh
again, what rules have i broken, pray do tell?
secondly, again, for pointing out a singular erroneous action, seems someone try to miscontrue me as questioning the entire moderatorship of AA mods, even going into deep personal attacks
what else can i say here?
Like I said, i am still focused on the issue, and instead of supporting or against the action, some people have to go write a whole thesis on how arrogant i am, how he doesnt give a damn...nice to know your personal emotions and character, but again, i am more interested in the issue proper -
Come on... she is not the only girl in this world....
Better go separate ways than suffer later -
If we tell you to break up, then next time you might regret doing that. If we tell you to continue, then next time you might regret that. So what we can only do is present to you all the issues that you might not have known.Originally posted by technoboy:Her mum talked to her today again... Keep asking her to break up with me...
She said cos' we were of the same age and this would mean that I would be more immature when I'm with my GF... I don't know why she said that... Probably cos she wants to find more reasons to break us up...
Then the 2nd point again she said cos' I was not a christian... Then my GF said "what if he is a christian?" Her answer was still a "no". She said she just find us unsuitable...
I really felt depressed after hearing what she told me... What should I do now then?
So as I can see the situation is this:
1. Her mum does not like you. You can hope that she becomes fond of you or tolerates you. You can learn to simply put on a show in front of her every time you meet her but keep a distance emotionally from her. Hey we do not get everything we want in a nice package that we want in life.
Her mum is trying to persuade her to leave you becuase she does not like you. Obviously the girl likes you otherwise she would have listened to her mum.
That she did not shows that she has a mind of her own.
Will you be matured enough to ignore whatever her mother says if you continue with her? You cannot speak for your gf because you are not her and she might change next time.
You can try to do things to make her mother likes you but there is no guarantee that she ever will. So the best you can do might be that she tolerates you and leave you alone.
2. You have different beliefs. Beliefs will results in the decisions one makes everyday. There are people who believe one thing but acts (make decisions) in another way. That is to say, they act in a way that you would not expect since they claim to belong to certain religions.
But then again, some people believe only certain things in certain religions and not necessarily all of it.
Bottom line is, she is your gf inspite of her beliefs and her mum.
The ball is now in your court. Will you stop her from doing what she wants to do that to you are meaningless because you are not a christian? If you are going to stop her, then the relationship will suffer and she will suffer.
3. Nothing is certain and sure in a relationship. People change all the time and people come into different experiences all the time. That is the biggest problem or biggest treasure in having relationships depending on how you look at it.
You have to constantly day by day work at a relationship. Even after you are married. There is no such thing as a relationship going into automatic mode and it will run by itself with minimal maintenance. You will need to work at it for it to continue as a successful relationship.
So far you do have a relationship with her. As long as you continue to have a relationship with her, all these problems are meaningless. The relationship and not the problems is the important thing here. You have a relationship that has problems but you have a relationship!
As long as the both of you are having a relationship, just continue to work on the problems while still having the relationship.
You think that the relationship might not last because of all these problems. Hey, here's news for you... relationships never last or is of such low quality you can hardly call it a relationship, if you do not work at it, with or without problems.
So decide. Do you want to have a relationship with this girl? If yes, then have it and as to whether she will end the relationship with you... that is outside your control and as long as she wants it and you want it... then just continue to have the relationship and try to inject some romance, happiness into it.
Use your brains to make it romantic and a happy relationship. That is the other side of the same coin.
Meaning, even without the problems, if there is no romance and is a sad relationship, it will not last and is pointless.
Even with the problems, as long as it is a romatic and a happy relationship, the relationship is worth it. -
Somehow I feel that you can't totally blame her mum?Originally posted by technoboy:Her mum talked to her today again... Keep asking her to break up with me...
She said cos' we were of the same age and this would mean that I would be more immature when I'm with my GF... I don't know why she said that... Probably cos she wants to find more reasons to break us up...
Then the 2nd point again she said cos' I was not a christian... Then my GF said "what if he is a christian?" Her answer was still a "no". She said she just find us unsuitable...
I really felt depressed after hearing what she told me... What should I do now then?
I mean... Speaking from an objective point of view (which you probably won't quite agree).... Not to belittle you, but you're both only 16...? I believe there's really little that her mum likes about you... And it certainly doesn't help that you're not even a Christian...? And probably like what MCSquare has suggested, religion could very well just be an excuse... Have her mum met you before?
The main problem now is that your gf listens to her mum... So the 2 more obvious routes you're left with would be....
1. Try to earn a good impression out of her mum.
2. Try to be together on a low profile without her mum knowing it all... -
I've totally lost my interest in you.Originally posted by laurence82:sigh
again, what rules have i broken, pray do tell?
secondly, again, for pointing out a singular erroneous action, seems someone try to miscontrue me as questioning the entire moderatorship of AA mods, even going into deep personal attacks
what else can i say here?
Like I said, i am still focused on the issue, and instead of supporting or against the action, some people have to go write a whole thesis on how arrogant i am, how he doesnt give a damn...nice to know your personal emotions and character, but again, i am more interested in the issue proper
Someone of your calibre is not even worth any of my time and effort.
All our answers were given to you in this thread. Go search, look and figure out.
Go reflect on yourself if you like. If you don't, that's none of my concern too. I'm not your nanny, you're not my son.
What I personally think...
You're just trying to prove how 'smart' you are...? Well... I believe you've just proven yourself. Keep the credits. -
Past
-
honestly...what is worse. some ppl quoting the bible or you 2 arguing? that's what PM's are for...i apologize if i misunderstood something and you were actually having a meaningful conversation.