Doing what's Right or what's Accepted?
-
Have you discussed this issue with your tutor? Tell them your point of view and concern.
Perhaps, you need to split up the tasks and assign to them clearly. Since you're the project leader, you have to put in the effort to do delegation, coordination and motivation. Just don't expect everyone to take the initiative to do things, you just got to set specific goals for them to meet. The guy who's good with study - he's good because in academic world, there is a set goal (get good grades), so if you can give him a very specific goal, he will be able to help your team. Perhaps, he's not too keen to put in the effort because he is not clear what to do or he doesn't feel that he belongs to the team? For the religious guy, maybe can get him to commit a specific time to do certain things.
Just be sure to be objective, and communicate that clearly with your team members. Put it this way, you'll learn a lot more if you are able to deal with difficult people. We meet them most of the time in work
-
To set the record straight, the objectives for each meeting is set at the start and the requirements of the project to be submitted, I've already told them,reminded them crystal clearly.And I check on them every 2/3days on the progress. And I don't mind going through the details with them again if its unclear, because thats my duty. The religious guy when told to commit, he will always reply with...I'm not sure if I can do it.I will let you know.But never gets back to me on anything.So you see...just 20mins ago, our lecture just ended and the group of girls with a few other friends came to pressure me again.They just won't take NO for an answer. They tell me that women are soft-hearted with this sorta thing, I sure don't see it happening. And this guy is not popular or what ever, he just happens to be pitiful. I tried explaining to them that he had a choice, of doing or not doing the project, since he's chosen not to do it, he has to face the consequences. I mean I'm not willing to take a gamble with my grades because its not a wise thing to do at all. Also, I will be stuck with him for not 1 but 5 projects. Thus I'm really apprehensive about it.Originally posted by moongster:Perhaps, you need to split up the tasks and assign to them clearly. Since you're the project leader, you have to put in the effort to do delegation, coordination and motivation. Just don't expect everyone to take the initiative to do things, you just got to set specific goals for them to meet. The guy who's good with study - he's good because in academic world, there is a set goal (get good grades), so if you can give him a very specific goal, he will be able to help your team. Perhaps, he's not too keen to put in the effort because he is not clear what to do or he doesn't feel that he belongs to the team? For the religious guy, maybe can get him to commit a specific time to do certain things.
Just be sure to be objective, and communicate that clearly with your team members. Put it this way, you'll learn a lot more if you are able to deal with difficult people. We meet them most of the time in work -
Ultimately, it'll be your call, and to convince the girls if this is the final decision.
Did the girls say why they want them back besides being soft hearted? Ask them how the guys can help the team in the project. Would the girls be able to help you motivate the other two guys in getting the work done? They might give your different perspectives on handling this situation. -
Stuck for FIVE projects?
Ok... This one really have to take into consideration. Have you ever asked the girls in your group that when they took pity on them, did they take pity on you too? As in what you have to do to ensure the group is functioning and doing for the sake of the project?
They took pity because they saw his helplessness and lonliness in it. They should also see your situation too. Its best you explain how much trouble you will get if you allow them in and vice versa.
I believe its necessary for your project mates to see your side of the story and "feel" or relate to your situation. Coz what they are doing actually is biasing towards the two guys. -
Step back and look at the parameters of the situation, and the course of action is pretty straightforward.
First, the title of the thread already shows that you have closed off options. Why should it be what's right or what's accepted? Are the two mutually exclusive? I would suggest that an adjustment of both would result in a meeting point in which it can be both right and accepted.
Let's look at your bottom line. You want the marks. Simple as that. Who you get the marks with and how it gets done are independent considerations, so treat them independently when you're working out your plan.
Next, the strongest point you have on your side is that you are basing your conclusions on what these two guys have DONE, while the girls are basing their approach on what they have SAID. Obviously the stronger evidence is in your favour, so squeeze the girls on that one. You already have proof that these two slackers are dead weight - if they want to bring the guys back in the team, they have to CONVINCE you that things will work out this time. There's no need to get emotional when discussing this point with them. Be cool, calm and logical, and use every bit of your experience with these guys to rebut whatever the girls say, and place the emphasis on ACTIONS, not words.
Ideally, by now you should have the girls in a corner. Point out that you've given them every opportunity to make their case, but there's nothing that they've done that guarantees protection of the bottom line - the marks. Make sure you bring it back to the marks because you need to keep this business-like.
At this point, you have two options. Either shut the whole discussion down or give the girls a way out. The former option is ill-advised, since it could well result in damage to the group's morale. What about a way out for them, then?
Reiterate the point that this is business, not personal. At the end of the day each of you will take marks away from this, and that's the only thing that counts here.
In light of that, the first issue to be addressed is where the team is at currently, and what needs to be done. Remind the girls that what the two slackers do is much more important than what they say, so if they want back in, they're going to have to perform some actions that demonstrate their intentions. Set aside a few tasks that they will need to do to earn probationary status in the team. For example, if the bikinis haven't already been packed, give them a clearly set time to finish the job. If they don't do it, they can't convince you that they're a good bet and that's the end of the issue. The objective of this is to shift the responsibility of the outcome from yourself (in making the decision) to them (in proving their good intent). If they fail, the blame falls squarely on them.
If they do pass and get back in the team, you're going to have to lay it out for them. They've obviously got work practice problems that you will have to talk to them about, and you're going to have to put measures in to address these problems. Also, if they do complete the task, get back in and screw it up again, at the very least you'll have cut your losses by getting soem work out of them.
From the sounds of it, your team isn't doing much project management. From what you've described, it sounds like tasks are assigned to each team member on a lassiez faire basis, and no strict timelines are being defined. You need to build it into your team processes that everybody knows exactly what they're supposed to be doing and by exactly when, and these assignments have to be done in the presence pof the whole team so that it doesn't become an individual argument. Make it clear to these guys that if they fail to meet their deadlines, they're out because their failure will be at everybody's expense.
In summary, get the bums to earn their place back in the team by SHOWING that they're serious instead of just saying it, and institute measures to keep them under control. If they fail, it give you clear grounds to chuck them out again without further need for debate.
The girls seem to be thinking with God-knows-what, so you're going to have to be the one to set things on the right path. Make sure that everything you do is logical and ties in to the bottom line and that they know it - it's business, not personal. Besides, if you cannot make a clear connection between your actions and the bottom line, you're wasting your time and energy. On the basis of past history, the two guys are on very thin ice, and if they want back in they're going to have to agree on the stipulated conditions WHICH ARE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO ENSURE THAT THE JOB GETS DONE AND THAT THE WHOLE TEAM ACHIEVES THE BOTTOM LINE. I also suggest that if the girls want the guys back in the team so badly, they have to put their money where their mouth is and act as guarantors to ensure that the guys meet their commitments - they're the ones who want the bums back, so it's their job, not yours. -
For one, I agree with this.However, there are restrictions which I'm having. I'm unable to give them the boot mid-way through the projects, also the girls are saying that they disagree on the terms and conditions because they ultimately want him to be in. Its not that I'm trying to make things difficult or anything, at the end of the day, its the results that counts. And frankly, there are many other such leeches in the other classes, I do not wish to make myself seem as a refugee centre and end up making it seem obligated to accept those that have been outcasted. I just hope that they just allow the lecturers/tutors to let us draw lots on whose group they get put into. Franky, I do not do things which I do not have confidence in and this is an example of me not having the slightest example. You know human psychology, when people are desperate, they will sell their mothers if they can meet their objectives. I'm unwilling to have someone promise the world and end up having me played as a fool. With me its always trust until they have been proven to be not trustworthy and we all know how difficult it is to earn somebody's trust. The girls keep comparing my latitude of forgiveness to my ex girlfriend and how much tolerance I have as compared to the two of them.But thing is...thats a persona issue,and this is business. With my girlfriend, the only ones affected is the two of us, but with this two, its the entire group of 4/5 other people. And I'm not willing to take the responsibility to have a screw up on my watch.Originally posted by Gedanken:In summary, get the bums to earn their place back in the team by SHOWING that they're serious instead of just saying it, and institute measures to keep them under control. If they fail, it give you clear grounds to chuck them out again without further need for debate.
Its extremely vexing because really, I do not see the reason why I should accept them in when there are 3 other groups in the class.And why are they so adamant on accepting them. -
Ya. I've met such type of people too as my project mate during my school days... Though that person's not doing any job, just ACT PITY and CRY when I pester and question him regarding his share of work and submissions... In the end ALMOST EVERYONE started scolding me... That guy even SPREAD RUMOURS behind my BACK as he LEECHES OFF with my HARD-EARNED POINTS and WORK... I had to fall behind tutorials, lectures and tests just to get HIS SHARE DONE...Originally posted by SpecOps87:To set the record straight, the objectives for each meeting is set at the start and the requirements of the project to be submitted, I've already told them,reminded them crystal clearly.And I check on them every 2/3days on the progress. And I don't mind going through the details with them again if its unclear, because thats my duty. The religious guy when told to commit, he will always reply with...I'm not sure if I can do it.I will let you know.But never gets back to me on anything.So you see...just 20mins ago, our lecture just ended and the group of girls with a few other friends came to pressure me again.They just won't take NO for an answer. They tell me that women are soft-hearted with this sorta thing, I sure don't see it happening. And this guy is not popular or what ever, he just happens to be pitiful. I tried explaining to them that he had a choice, of doing or not doing the project, since he's chosen not to do it, he has to face the consequences. I mean I'm not willing to take a gamble with my grades because its not a wise thing to do at all. Also, I will be stuck with him for not 1 but 5 projects. Thus I'm really apprehensive about it.
In the end I just couldn't take his DISHONESTY. I REQUESTED to SPLIT TEAM with him just before the PROJECT was about over. He didn't do a thing, had no material and didn't know exactly what was going on. He still had the shameless face to stab me to the lecturer in charge, demanding that I give him all the work and materials done (by myself lah...)
The lecturer warned me that I would be the one being penalised for team work points if I make such a call. In the end I just went ahead for my own integrity.
As time goes by people just get to learn about the true story... -
Can you change team mates (the 2 girls) if they (the 2 guys) insist on coming in? Can you afford to do that?Originally posted by SpecOps87:For one, I agree with this.However, there are restrictions which I'm having. I'm unable to give them the boot mid-way through the projects, also the girls are saying that they disagree on the terms and conditions because they ultimately want him to be in. Its not that I'm trying to make things difficult or anything, at the end of the day, its the results that counts. And frankly, there are many other such leeches in the other classes, I do not wish to make myself seem as a refugee centre and end up making it seem obligated to accept those that have been outcasted. I just hope that they just allow the lecturers/tutors to let us draw lots on whose group they get put into. Franky, I do not do things which I do not have confidence in and this is an example of me not having the slightest example. You know human psychology, when people are desperate, they will sell their mothers if they can meet their objectives. I'm unwilling to have someone promise the world and end up having me played as a fool. With me its always trust until they have been proven to be not trustworthy and we all know how difficult it is to earn somebody's trust. The girls keep comparing my latitude of forgiveness to my ex girlfriend and how much tolerance I have as compared to the two of them.But thing is...thats a persona issue,and this is business. With my girlfriend, the only ones affected is the two of us, but with this two, its the entire group of 4/5 other people. And I'm not willing to take the responsibility to have a screw up on my watch.
Its extremely vexing because really, I do not see the reason why I should accept them in when there are 3 other groups in the class.And why are they so adamant on accepting them.
Can you bargain for only 1 of the guys to be accepted?
As much as it may seems harsh, but I've a thought and had the same idea as Gedanken's proposal for the girls to clear up the 2 guys' work if they fail to meet up. I MIGHT offer to HELP the girls if should such a situation arises, but they'll have to understand that it's 'help'... And no OBLIGATION....
As much as you might hate it, I must say some girls INDEED DO accept such people... Even when they FULLY UNDERSTAND that those people won't be doing their work and the girls would have to PAY HEAVILY for it in the end.... -
What subject is this for, by the way?Originally posted by SpecOps87:For one, I agree with this.However, there are restrictions which I'm having. I'm unable to give them the boot mid-way through the projects, also the girls are saying that they disagree on the terms and conditions because they ultimately want him to be in. Its not that I'm trying to make things difficult or anything, at the end of the day, its the results that counts. And frankly, there are many other such leeches in the other classes, I do not wish to make myself seem as a refugee centre and end up making it seem obligated to accept those that have been outcasted. I just hope that they just allow the lecturers/tutors to let us draw lots on whose group they get put into. Franky, I do not do things which I do not have confidence in and this is an example of me not having the slightest example. You know human psychology, when people are desperate, they will sell their mothers if they can meet their objectives. I'm unwilling to have someone promise the world and end up having me played as a fool. With me its always trust until they have been proven to be not trustworthy and we all know how difficult it is to earn somebody's trust. The girls keep comparing my latitude of forgiveness to my ex girlfriend and how much tolerance I have as compared to the two of them.But thing is...thats a persona issue,and this is business. With my girlfriend, the only ones affected is the two of us, but with this two, its the entire group of 4/5 other people. And I'm not willing to take the responsibility to have a screw up on my watch.
Its extremely vexing because really, I do not see the reason why I should accept them in when there are 3 other groups in the class.And why are they so adamant on accepting them.
If you've already explored all the options I mentioned with the girls and they're insisting that the guys get let back in without conditions, they are simply being unreasonable. Just make sure that you've got everything covered before you do anything else, or you won't have an airtight case.
Assuming that you've done everything up to this point, it's time to escalate.
Prepare your case before you bring your lecturer in on this:
1) You're going to need a record of exactly how these two guys have dropped the ball, and it has to show a clear history of their unwillingness to pull their weight.
2) You'll also need a step-by-step account of all of your negotiations with the girls to this point, showing that you have taken every reasonable course of action, but thbey're the ones being stubborn, and that what they're proposing is unworkiable in light of the history with the two guys.
3) Third, you're going to have to start talking to the other groups. If they're aware of the situation as you have described it, they could be open to you joining their team. Make sure you create an optioin for yourself such that if the two guys are brought back unconditionally, you can leave the group and join another group.
Make sure you get these three things ready, and then bring this up to the lecturer and have him mediate the discussions.
One thing I've noticed - if the girls are talking about your girlfriend and other such irrelevant crap, I wonder if they've got their priorities straight. You may need to be more assertive in making them understand the difference between what's business and what's personal.
If I may make an observation, if you're talking about trust, forgiveness and being played for a fool, you're going off-track yourself. Remember, it's business, and none of those three things have anything to do with getting the job done. What is important is that you do not want to have to waste time chasing up things that by agreement should already have been taken care of. You're busy enough with your own tasks without having to constantly check that everybody else is doing theirs. -
so the girls are now saying they want the guy to be in even if hes a leecher and doesn't do anything?? is that whats meant by ultimately they want him in?Originally posted by SpecOps87:For one, I agree with this.However, there are restrictions which I'm having. I'm unable to give them the boot mid-way through the projects, also the girls are saying that they disagree on the terms and conditions because they ultimately want him to be in. Its not that I'm trying to make things difficult or anything, at the end of the day, its the results that counts. And frankly, there are many other such leeches in the other classes, I do not wish to make myself seem as a refugee centre and end up making it seem obligated to accept those that have been outcasted. I just hope that they just allow the lecturers/tutors to let us draw lots on whose group they get put into. Franky, I do not do things which I do not have confidence in and this is an example of me not having the slightest example. You know human psychology, when people are desperate, they will sell their mothers if they can meet their objectives. I'm unwilling to have someone promise the world and end up having me played as a fool. With me its always trust until they have been proven to be not trustworthy and we all know how difficult it is to earn somebody's trust. The girls keep comparing my latitude of forgiveness to my ex girlfriend and how much tolerance I have as compared to the two of them.But thing is...thats a persona issue,and this is business. With my girlfriend, the only ones affected is the two of us, but with this two, its the entire group of 4/5 other people. And I'm not willing to take the responsibility to have a screw up on my watch.
Its extremely vexing because really, I do not see the reason why I should accept them in when there are 3 other groups in the class.And why are they so adamant on accepting them.
the way i see it you got 3 choices:
1. strike a bargain with the b!tches and tell them that they and only they are going to have to pick up the slack if they insist on taking the leechers in.
2. go to the person in charge and put the case across and ask for advice
3. just go join another group as a member as i mentioned earlier. let the girls die if they want to.
The way it seems, the females are just trying to be unreasonable. Not much point in trying to convince them more. Just tell them that your grades in the end matter the most and you will not want to risk it, especially for 5 projects -
just lay down the rules as devil said.
and let them know that if they continue not to contribute, you'll just inform the lecturers on how much or what parts of the project was actually contributed by them. -
SHARP. But I personally won't totally agree though I have to admit that you're making your points.Originally posted by Gedanken:What subject is this for, by the way?
If you've already explored all the options I mentioned with the girls and they're insisting that the guys get let back in without conditions, they are simply being unreasonable. Just make sure that you've got everything covered before you do anything else, or you won't have an airtight case.
Assuming that you've done everything up to this point, it's time to escalate.
Prepare your case before you bring your lecturer in on this:
1) You're going to need a record of exactly how these two guys have dropped the ball, and it has to show a clear history of their unwillingness to pull their weight.
2) You'll also need a step-by-step account of all of your negotiations with the girls to this point, showing that you have taken every reasonable course of action, but thbey're the ones being stubborn, and that what they're proposing is unworkiable in light of the history with the two guys.
3) Third, you're going to have to start talking to the other groups. If they're aware of the situation as you have described it, they could be open to you joining their team. Make sure you create an optioin for yourself such that if the two guys are brought back unconditionally, you can leave the group and join another group.
Make sure you get these three things ready, and then bring this up to the lecturer and have him mediate the discussions.
One thing I've noticed - if the girls are talking about your girlfriend and other such irrelevant crap, I wonder if they've got their priorities straight. You may need to be more assertive in making them understand the difference between what's business and what's personal.
If I may make an observation, if you're talking about trust, forgiveness and being played for a fool, you're going off-track yourself. Remember, it's business, and none of those three things have anything to do with getting the job done. What is important is that you do not want to have to waste time chasing up things that by agreement should already have been taken care of. You're busy enough with your own tasks without having to constantly check that everybody else is doing theirs.
The reasons being that
(1) not everyone can be as 'business-like' or 'professional', especially when it comes to a school's environment.
(2) sometimes being too 'get down to business' can kill the infrastructure of a team and often reducing morale, creativity and enthusiasm.
I also personally feel that in order for him to achieve a higher chance of coordinating the team (if it is to exist), it would requires him more on the balance between 'objective' and 'sensitivity'. But overall, I agree that you're making the key points to follow. And sometimes we just have to get some priorities set right, though not solely based on them for all judgements. -
I hear what you're saying, Devil. In my case, I set up things up differently from the start at university. In my first semester, we had to work in pairs and I made point of dumping my partner in a very public manner. I got a high distinction and she got a bare pass. In my second semester, I dumped two members from my five-member team and got a high distinction again. In the second instance, I told the remaining two members that if they weren't going to be businesslike about their work, I didn't want them either. Word got around, and for the next two years I only dealt with students who would make it to Honours later. I didn't make myself a lot of friends during that time, but most of the ones I did make still keep in contact with me and we occasionally exchange professional favours for mutual benefit.Originally posted by Devil1976:SHARP. But I personally won't totally agree though I have to admit that you're making your points.
The reasons being that
(1) not everyone can be as 'business-like' or 'professional', especially when it comes to a school's environment.
(2) sometimes being too 'get down to business' can kill the infrastructure of a team and often reducing morale, creativity and enthusiasm.
I also personally feel that in order for him to achieve a higher chance of coordinating the team (if it is to exist), it would requires him more on the balance between 'objective' and 'sensitivity'. But overall, I agree that you're making the key points to follow. And sometimes we just have to get some priorities set right, though not solely based on them for all judgements.
I acknowledge that such an approach may seem too ruthless for some people to accept, but when it comes to business, it makes absolutely no sense to muck about. I'll let the numbers speak for themselves: the top 5% got into Honours, and for my postgrad, 12 out of 1200 applicants (who each finished Honours) were accepted into the course. Effectively, over four years I was in competition with 1999 other students to get there, and with such long odds, I'd argue that you can't afford to trip up or drag dead weight.
The point I'm making is that with five projects to go, SpecOps needs to be thinking right now about hooking up with a team of serious players if he's serious himself. There's no room for playing nicely with the other kids. -
Now I'm thinking, if I heed what my tutor say, to take him in so that I not only save the working r-ship with the ladies and also fulfill their desire to rescue him, should I take him in for just sae 1/2 subjects and let him swim for the remaining, so that if he screws up, at least the result won't be that badly affected.And Ged, I will heed your advice and I'm gonna treat this chap that way.I think its fair, because if I've taken him in, and he doesn't cherish it, its no longer my doings, but that of his.
-
I would say what you've said and done would have been very appropriate for yourself and people who think likewise.Originally posted by Gedanken:I hear what you're saying, Devil. In my case, I set up things up differently from the start at university. In my first semester, we had to work in pairs and I made point of dumping my partner in a very public manner. I got a high distinction and she got a bare pass. In my second semester, I dumped two members from my five-member team and got a high distinction again. In the second instance, I told the remaining two members that if they weren't going to be businesslike about their work, I didn't want them either. Word got around, and for the next two years I only dealt with students who would make it to Honours later. I didn't make myself a lot of friends during that time, but most of the ones I did make still keep in contact with me and we occasionally exchange professional favours for mutual benefit.
I acknowledge that such an approach may seem too ruthless for some people to accept, but when it comes to business, it makes absolutely no sense to muck about. I'll let the numbers speak for themselves: the top 5% got into Honours, and for my postgrad, 12 out of 1200 applicants (who each finished Honours) were accepted into the course. Effectively, over four years I was in competition with 1999 other students to get there, and with such long odds, I'd argue that you can't afford to trip up or drag dead weight.
The point I'm making is that with five projects to go, SpecOps needs to be thinking right now about hooking up with a team of serious players if he's serious himself. There's no room for playing nicely with the other kids.
Personally, I think strategy varies according to what people want in life. I would agree that sometimes it is always difficult to strike an exact balance, but more like a 'give and take' situation. That's why people say... "In life, you win some and you lose some?"
-
I think we've said much... Ultimately it's still your call... I don't think there's really a strict 'right' or 'wrong' answer for this one...Originally posted by SpecOps87:Now I'm thinking, if I heed what my tutor say, to take him in so that I not only save the working r-ship with the ladies and also fulfill their desire to rescue him, should I take him in for just sae 1/2 subjects and let him swim for the remaining, so that if he screws up, at least the result won't be that badly affected.And Ged, I will heed your advice and I'm gonna treat this chap that way.I think its fair, because if I've taken him in, and he doesn't cherish it, its no longer my doings, but that of his. -
Okay first of all.
The bo chup leech:
Avoid these people at all costs.
I was studying in an arts institute in Singapore and this overseas indian girl wiggles her way into my cohort without so much as even a portfolio.
I'm not normally the kind of person who'd not make friends with someone because of their race/religion/whatever, unless I really just can't stand their personalities or whatever.
We were put into groups. And my troubles began. She started liking some loser guy in school and on the pretext of doing our assignment (one of which was supposed to be a life-sized oil painting of our chosen visual concept), would drag me to the guy's house here he lived in an dingy apartment with 4 other guys and slept on the same bed.
I'd sit in the opposite room while she flung herself around these guys; I was drawing up the drafts, organising the research material, etc, etc. Basically, everything.
She'd drop by every now and then, take a pencil lazily and doodle on a piece of paper. She doesn't have any art background whatsoever, and every 2 seconds she'd start lamenting - "OHHHH, MY BRAIN IS NOT WORKING" in her thick accent which really started to drive me mad when she said it for the kabazillionth time in the 5 minutes she sat with me.
Then she'd make up some sad excuse ("Oh, [Name] is calling me, oh, I wanna see what [Name] is doing!")
Where she'd go into his room and later I found out they were making out on the cheap 2nd hand mattresses in that room with those 4 guys sitting inside pretending to be asleep. WTF?!
I got so pissed I told her I can't work like this if she's not doing her end of the bargain - to contribute ideas at the very least if she's so damn useless.
In the end, I got all the work done, from drafts, to research material, to the final work. YES, I painted a friggin life-sized oil painting in half the time a single person was supposed to be given, because we were supposed to work in two's.
I didn't write her name down. I told the teacher this is my work. By then I had a reputation in school, thanks to this girl, who skipped classes to go to the guy's house and I followed sometimes in hopes she will contribute - as being a 'bad influence to her.
Later, I found out she had been b|tching to the teacher behind my back that I was holding the project back.
That was the last straw. I stopped answering her calls. I stopped talking to her. She really lost a gold mine and she knew it. She kept pestering me and stalking me.
But I got so pissed I just told her to "Get out of my life."
Morale of the story: DON'T GIVE IN TO SUCH PEOPLE. CUT THEM OFF BEFORE THEY RUIN YOU.
If not, give them a stern warning that their names will not be submitted and your teachers be informed of their lack of contribution.
The Religious fellow:
Look. Everyone has a religion. Muslims, Sikhs, Christians, Satanists, Wiccans, Voodoo people...WHOEVER!!
Them using their religion is AN EXCUSE to shirk their responsibilities. Tell me. Is this Muslim guy you're talking about, going to tell his boss, "Eh, boss, I need to pray my 5 prayers so cannot attend your morning meeting, afternoon meeting and friday meetings."
People have their religious obligations yet I'm pretty sure the MAJORITY OF THEM around the world get their work done in spite of these obligations. Him using religious obligations as an excuse makes him pathetically sly because he knows that most people will bow down to his incompetence due to their fear of offending his sensibilities.
Sure, he needs to work. Okay. But I'm sure apart from school he doesn't work 12 hours EVERYDAY right?
Such people just misuse anything they can to do less.
Either. GET RID OF SUCH PEOPLE if you're too soft hearted to handle them or know you might be pressurized by them.
Or set down STRICT GROUND RULES.
Work? Okay. Give your work schedule..We set a couple of project meetings after your work to be fair to others who do the project when you're absent and working. If too much work, cut back working hours in at least 2 -3 days to accomodate project stuff.
Prayers? Only friday right? Ok, after friday prayers we meet outside the MRT station nearest to your mosque and go somewhere to do our work.
If he want to pray the 5 daily prayers he can still do that while you guys are doing the project and get back to work because daily prayers don't take more than 5 min! (Good to read up about religions! LOL. Hard for others to fool u.
)
LEECHES ARE ONLY ABLE TO SHIRK WHEN THEY KNOW THEY CAN PRESSURIZE YOU INTO SUBMISSION BECAUSE YOU WANT TO BE 'POLITE'.
Politeness doesn't work. Be firm, but civil. -
Threadstarter,
You've already made up your mind. Look within yourself and you'll have the answer. Go ahead with it and don't look back. If you're true to yourself, you'll not regret it. -
Bloody b1tches backstabbed me to the tutor w/o explaining the situation and put the 2 guys into the group. He told me to either accept him or find a new group. I've sent an email regarding the situation to the course manager, cc to all the tutors and lecturers in my course of which several are totally against the two chaps. I've learnt my lesson which is that a team with a higher female to male ration won't work because the females tend to use their hearts and feelings to do things rather then their friggin cow sense. And tomorrow I'm going to have a good session with the tutors/lecturers and course manager regarding the issue.
-
i did tell you to go find the lecturer and tutors...........Originally posted by SpecOps87:Bloody b1tches backstabbed me to the tutor w/o explaining the situation and put the 2 guys into the group. He told me to either accept him or find a new group. I've sent an email regarding the situation to the course manager, cc to all the tutors and lecturers in my course of which several are totally against the two chaps. I've learnt my lesson which is that a team with a higher female to male ration won't work because the females tend to use their hearts and feelings to do things rather then their friggin cow sense. And tomorrow I'm going to have a good session with the tutors/lecturers and course manager regarding the issue.
actually why don't you consider finding another group?? -
Call me silly, but I don't think running is my type of tactic. I'm staying because I have the right to and that I'm not in the wrong in any sense. And even if I find another group, I will make sure the whole world sees what i've done compared to the two clowns and make a statement to them
-
Personally... Don't think you're making very smart moves here...Originally posted by SpecOps87:Bloody b1tches backstabbed me to the tutor w/o explaining the situation and put the 2 guys into the group. He told me to either accept him or find a new group. I've sent an email regarding the situation to the course manager, cc to all the tutors and lecturers in my course of which several are totally against the two chaps. I've learnt my lesson which is that a team with a higher female to male ration won't work because the females tend to use their hearts and feelings to do things rather then their friggin cow sense. And tomorrow I'm going to have a good session with the tutors/lecturers and course manager regarding the issue. -
Somehow I can't help but to feel that you're letting your 'blood' runs you than your mind...?Originally posted by SpecOps87:Call me silly, but I don't think running is my type of tactic. I'm staying because I have the right to and that I'm not in the wrong in any sense. And even if I find another group, I will make sure the whole world sees what i've done compared to the two clowns and make a statement to them
So what would happened at the end of the day? You staying in a team which you can't perform and get along with...? Or ultimately still have to change group...?
Go think about it... -
*sigh* SpecOps, I cannot overemphasise this: it's BUSINESS, not personal.
You're taking things personally now, and that's the easiest way to do yourself in - you now run the risk of fighting to win battles that will eventually lose the war for you, and if you're focussing on these personal issues, you're taking energy away from your bottom line. I strongly recommend you stop it, and stop it now.
When you meet with your tutors tomorrow, use a simple check to keep yourself on the right track. Whatever you say, make sure that it relates directly to your bottom line before you say it. If you can't easily link it to your bottom line, i.e. your marks, IT'S NOT WORTH SAYING. Don't go off-track, because if you do, even the tutors who know that these polesmokers have no right to be in your group will feel the need to distance themselves from your stance.
I'll say it again: it's BUSINESS, not personal. Remember that. -
Think about the bottom line and I think you'll see that no good will come of this stance.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Call me silly, but I don't think running is my type of tactic. I'm staying because I have the right to and that I'm not in the wrong in any sense. And even if I find another group, I will make sure the whole world sees what i've done compared to the two clowns and make a statement to them
Very often you're going to find that you need to take a step back and/or sideways in order to take a step forward. This is one of those situations. Find a group that's got its sh*t together and go with them - you get the marks and that's all that counts.