who fears death of self before?
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i just wanna check.
i mean i dun feel fear all the time. but sometimes, once in a while, if it hit me, i will fearful thinking i will die one day, or sometime soon.
have you all feel fear about ur mortality before, even for a short while?
another irony for people who have feared their own death before but feels okay if you ask them now is that they dun fear already but yet they do not dare to do alot of things in life. -
when u're 60+, u'll fear u don't die soon enough.......
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Personally.. i value quality over quantity. My ideal.. have a shiok filthy-rich lifestyle n die by 60-70 before my body betrays me.
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/stares death in its eyesOriginally posted by The man who was death:when u're 60+, u'll fear u don't die soon enough.......
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i don't fear death... jus fear the agony before i die
the best is to die while sleeping... actually i find it pretty exciting because of the uncertainty after death... will i be in some wonderland or jus cease to exist?
can't wait to find out. seriously.
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i am not in my prime yet, so i don't worry about this at all -
I used to think a lot about what will happen after death. People say its all about sleeping eternally, but the thing is, don't u wanna know what will happen after u close ur eyes? Where will u go? What will u do?
I know its useless to think about things that will happen not-so-soon, but eventually, it will come.
All I wish is that I will do and have done what I wish to do before one last breath. -
Better do good deed throughout your life time... Ma Xiao Ling say will affected when you die..
Becuase there is another type of life after death.. -
u can die anytime u noeOriginally posted by allentyb:
i am not in my prime yet, so i don't worry about this at all
probability is small, but it does not matter to maths when in comes to small probability. -
very often.
there are so many things i want to do. or failed to do. i screwed up so many times, or ignored so many things in life.
but there is nothing much i can do about it. -
apparently u are not very scientific person.Originally posted by nanren4ever:I used to think a lot about what will happen after death. People say its all about sleeping eternally, but the thing is, don't u wanna know what will happen after u close ur eyes? Where will u go? What will u do?
I know its useless to think about things that will happen not-so-soon, but eventually, it will come.
All I wish is that I will do and have done what I wish to do before one last breath.
death most likely means the end of existence for yourself FOREVER an EVER lah...
i also wish can go to another place. but i am realistic also.. i am just like the snail or the dog, just an animal who will just become ash. i will not exist, i will not even think when i am died. so when i am dead, i cannot even say. "oh i am dead". there will be no more "I".... -
ts.. we have the same thinking..
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if the fear of death does not affect your life... so what?
we are not millionaires and if it does not affect your life... so what?
we are not perfect and if it does not affect your life... so what?
we are not in perfect health and if it does not affect your life... so what?
and so on and so forth... -
We all have to kick the bucket someday, do not fear. And be at peace at yourself when it comes.
We have only 80 odd years to live, mortality is real. Deal with it. -
once you learn how to die, you'll learn how to live
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I don't fear death. I just fear pain. And I feel sad at how many things I would have to leave behind.
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Life= Youth!
I'm not afraid of death. I'm afraid of what I didn't accomplish before I die...
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Please don't let me die a virgin
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to TS >
yes, i totally understand how u feel. in fact i realised this since i was very young.
People who say "no fear of death" do not really think about it alot. And people who are religious tend to brush it off thinking "there is life after death". In fact, all religions try to explain life after death - which is really very comforting, yet very delusional.
It is people like you and me and others who are more rational and had thought about it more seriously, we understood that death means non-existence and that itself is really a very horrible thought. Many nights juz before i sleep i had panic attacks whenever the idea crossed my mind. however, that was long time ago.
when i first came to realize that, i talked to my sis about my fears, and of coz, my sis didnt understand and commented that she wasn't afraid of dying but was more afraid of being old and having a weak body and would rather die around age 60+. i tried to explain the concept of non-existence but she obviously didnt get it. she felt that "its good - juz like sleeping". oh well...
many years passed, and suddenly one night my sis was startled - she juz came to realise what i had been talking about - non-existence in death. she still get panic attacks sometimes, even now.
it seems to me that this idea is somewhat of an enlightenment - it cannot be truely understood by words, the person has to realise it himself. but i kinda regret the fact that my sis realised it, becoz it put her in misery n panic attacks juz like me. i kinda feel guilty - i hope she didnt came to the realisation becoz of my talking to her, but by her own thinking.
now for me, i try not to think about it - coz nothing can change it. sometimes i still get panic but much lesser now. my advise is - you have to come to terms with it, and it might take some time. try to think about other stuff whenever u start to think about death.
wish u well.
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if you think that you are "existing" right now and there is a "you" or "I" right now (in the way you think there is) as you are reading this, think again!
read this for starters...
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/81bc32e4-d5e3-11db-99b7-000b5df10621.htmlBut the American neuroscientist Benjamin Libet has shown that before every such movement, there is a distinctive build-up of electrical activity in the brain. And this build-up happens about half a second before your conscious ”decision” to move your arm. So by the time you think, ”OK, I’ll move my arm,” your body is halfway there. Which means your conscious experience of making a decision - the experience associated with free will - is just a kind of add-on, an after-thought that only happens once the brain has already set about its business. In other words, your brain is doing the real work, making your hands turn the pages of this magazine or reach over for your cup of tea, and all the time your conscious mind is tagging along behind.
It is as if, after years of driving around in your car, you discover that the steering-wheel is not attached to anything, and the car has been steering by itself.
Two neuroscientists working in Australia have taken LibetÂ’s discovery one step further. They found that, when asking people to choose to move either their left or right hands, it was possible to influence their choice by electronically stimulating certain parts of their brains. So, for example, the scientists could force the subjects always to choose to move their left hands. But despite their choice being electronically directed, these patients continued to report that they were freely choosing which hand to move.
So not only is your steering wheel not attached to anything, but if your car was being steered by someone else by remote control, you would not even notice. Every time it turns left, you just move your toy steering wheel and think, ”Ah yes, I want to turn left.”
It is possible to get rid of the fear of death... pai me shi fu and I might teach you a thing or two -
hmm interesting article.
you're trying to point out that our brains make us think about self-consciousness n that we "exist", yet its nothing more than some chemical reactions in our brain cells.
i agree with that.
But it still doesn't change the fact that right now we do indeed "feel" self-consciousness, and with death, the brain's chemical activities will cease and the "self-consciousness" (however true it may be) which is unique to this physical body is lost forever. -
that is because you place great importance to "self", that "which is unique to this physical body", that does not exists and is only an illusion, suggested by this research at least.Originally posted by sgquitter:hmm interesting article.
you're trying to point out that our brains make us think about self-consciousness n that we "exist", yet its nothing more than some chemical reactions in our brain cells.
i agree with that.
But it still doesn't change the fact that right now we do indeed "feel" self-consciousness, and with death, the brain's chemical activities will cease and the "self-consciousness" (however true it may be) which is unique to this physical body is lost forever.
That which is driving the car is more important or that which thinks it is driving the car more important? -
among all the thread, i find great relief that yours is a relevance to my experience. i would like to elaborate more on this issue. firstly, i know about those advices of "accepting the death". i have to say that this fear has happen to me a few times and i know how to get over the fear. i am mainly talking abt the specific experience of fear of death when you think of it in certain way.Originally posted by sgquitter:to TS >
yes, i totally understand how u feel. in fact i realised this since i was very young.
People who say "no fear of death" do not really think about it alot. And people who are religious tend to brush it off thinking "there is life after death". In fact, all religions try to explain life after death - which is really very comforting, yet very delusional.
It is people like you and me and others who are more rational and had thought about it more seriously, we understood that death means non-existence and that itself is really a very horrible thought. Many nights juz before i sleep i had panic attacks whenever the idea crossed my mind. however, that was long time ago.
when i first came to realize that, i talked to my sis about my fears, and of coz, my sis didnt understand and commented that she wasn't afraid of dying but was more afraid of being old and having a weak body and would rather die around age 60+. i tried to explain the concept of non-existence but she obviously didnt get it. she felt that "its good - juz like sleeping". oh well...
many years passed, and suddenly one night my sis was startled - she juz came to realise what i had been talking about - non-existence in death. she still get panic attacks sometimes, even now.
it seems to me that this idea is somewhat of an enlightenment - it cannot be truely understood by words, the person has to realise it himself. but i kinda regret the fact that my sis realised it, becoz it put her in misery n panic attacks juz like me. i kinda feel guilty - i hope she didnt came to the realisation becoz of my talking to her, but by her own thinking.
now for me, i try not to think about it - coz nothing can change it. sometimes i still get panic but much lesser now. my advise is - you have to come to terms with it, and it might take some time. try to think about other stuff whenever u start to think about death.
wish u well.
i have a analogy which i think is useful. the fear of death happens in a particular fashion. its like a combination of locks where it require a certain combination then you will unlock the door. if you did not have the particular combination, you just will not open the door. imagine a many layers of metals with a small section of hole in each layer. to see through the whole metal thing, each layer has to shift so that at a particular combi, all the holes are align. when it happens, like gears of lock clicking, the correct alignment of holes will produce a distinct click, which represents the trigger of fear of cessation of self/soul.
this means in this issue is that, most of the time, if you ask people abt it, or if people think about this issue of death, and more importantly self death, they tend to feel no fear because the combination thoughts and state of their emotions is not in a combination that will trigger this fear. however, when your thoughts align themselves in one day and certain events happen in your life that further align everyday, it will trigger what i call the
fear of the cessation of self forever.
the period of this fear is impulsive in nature. its not long, but its a very sharp fear and it leaves a deep impression, especially for the first time. after the fear, your feeling recovers and the combination of lock is changed again such that it not possible to trigger the fear at least in the near future.
usually, we go back to a normal life and if ask about death of self again. we are not fearful about it. this is because the combination of thoughts is in certain pattern that will trigger this again.
For example, people read about deaths in newspaper, internet and television everyday. statiscially, death is so rampant that ten people must have died in the world now as i typed the sentence. this shows that hearing the word death itself does not trigger this type of fear that i am talking about.
however, after some time of living in our world of work and study and relationship, the fear can still come again.
the fear of the thought of the end of self after death is perfectly understandable. look at it this way, people fear exam, people fear what others will think about them, people fear a angry boss, people fear that they fail in the work, and fear the end of relationship. i do feel fear over small things in life as well.
in terms of seriousness and severity, i think the loss of self is the worst case among the loss of relationship, a business deal, money.
some people don't experience this type of fear becaue they have different perspective of death, just as i say it requires a certain combination of locks to unlock and trigger this fear.
as the person has mentioned, some people do not have this a clear notion of what it meant by their sense of self and end of self when death. the second reason is because our brain automatically veered from the thoughts of death of self in subconsious level because it is like stepping into the unknown and thus risking experience of fear. the third reason is that we prefer to go and watch movie or have sex rather than to touch such a taboo subject. because we seldom experience situation of our own possible death, we tend do not have to think about this topic.
Also, another main reason for not being able to experience this fear is becaues we are so used to the notion of having a soul that it natural to believe that the soul persist beyond the death of the body. the body can die, but the soul will float to somewhere somehow. that is the logic. the belief in ghost also leads to beliefs that our soul persist.
This reason therefore explains why some people first experience this type of fear. when people starts to question whether their soul will always exist and doubt it, it will then trigger this fear very easily. for the first time, they have to imagine what is it like what i mean not to exist as a soul. this should produce a impulsive fear as i said. as i have said, what i realize about this fear is that it seems to require numerous factors to be occuring to trigger it off.
the universal case is that when people do talk about death, they are able to say logical advice regarding it. but when come to experiencing it, almost everyone will feel fearful and heart feels painful.
lastly, i would dare to hypothesize that the most of you who have not experienced this particular type of fear before will experience this one day. maybe in your 30s or 40s. the key factor is what i say above is the questioning of "what is meant by my sense of soul" and leading to the imagination of eternal cessation of self.
my post will inevitably cause people to experience it sooner, if they ever do get the particular combination of thoughts. but overall, this fear , if experienced is , actually very useful for living a better life. you will tend to live your life more meaningful, and you will tend not to complain and fret small stuff, because you know there are worst things in life.
the downside is that it crush our hope that there is a afterlife and you have to accept it . it a very very bad news indeed.
of course, singapore and the world consist of many religious people. therefore, people will still be convinced that "self will not be extinct and it will go somewhere".
i hope that there is a afterlife for me and i guess the chance for that with all the evidence, even with ghost theory, i see is 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 %. ok you get what i mean by the chance. -
our feeling of "self" , separate from our body, a sense of soul, i say it is a mixture of thoughts, feelings. where does it comes from ? i say it comes from the brain.Originally posted by sgquitter:hmm interesting article.
you're trying to point out that our brains make us think about self-consciousness n that we "exist", yet its nothing more than some chemical reactions in our brain cells.
i agree with that.
But it still doesn't change the fact that right now we do indeed "feel" self-consciousness, and with death, the brain's chemical activities will cease and the "self-consciousness" (however true it may be) which is unique to this physical body is lost forever.
the argument is whether our soul indeed comes from the brain or whether it is independt structure from the brain, the neurons. the reason why i say soul comes from the physical stucture is because our brain is neurons cells, with stucture and parts which is used for memory, movemnt, vision and logic function, and emotions.
naturally, i would think that the soul is no more than the collective of sensations and thoughts which requires the proper functioning of brain.
and ya, let me give u a strong argument which i read before for this. look at old people who has complete memory loss. they retain their ability to talk gibbersih stuff but hey, they cannot even remeber their own names and history or their family members. Do you consider Him "dead"?
his so called soul and personality is dead.. what is left is physical life. that is a very strong proof to say that soul comes from physical brain so death therefore mean bye bye to our 'soul' forever.
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What then may I ask, is so bad about deluding ourselves to be happy if we really have nothing to lose? If everything is indeed an illusion and we have no free will... then it does not really matter if what we think is right or wrong (right or wrong are just arbitary illusions). Might as well delude ourselves with whatever we are happy with believing.
The most rational thing to do after doing all the math would be to take an unlikely chance (belief in an afterlife), then no chance at all (belief in certain annihilation).
I mean I could delude myself to be so much happier then sulk and panic from day to day about my impending fate. Better still, I can go out and make full use of all the people I know and do all the things I want with no regard for law, rules and right and wrong. After all, since you are nothing more then a carrier for your genes, have one life and what matters is how much mileage you can get out of it.
If life is just one big prank of a side effect caused by genes needing to find any possible way to replicate their patters, might as well play along with it instead of getting all angsty by trying to see behind the scenes and yet be powerless to do anything about it. -
Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
deluding ourselves if we have nothing to lose? i disagree with this stement strongly. people who believes in afterlife, tend to live their life less fully, more complaining, and fearful.
[b]What then may I ask, is so bad about deluding ourselves if we really have nothing to lose? b]
the point is that if i believe i have only a single life, i will therefore conclude there life is short, and very precious. As a result of this concluding thought, i will therefore try to make this life well lived.
also, by not believeing in afterlife, it would not make me cannot have afterlife if there is a afterlife after all. so i do not need to worry that by not believeing, i am therefore have no afterlie if there is a afterlife.