who fears death of self before?
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Aiyah, depends on what you believe in mah. Not all concept of afterlife at the same, so mileage might vary.Originally posted by january:deluding ourselves if we have nothing to lose? i disagree with this stement strongly. people who believes in afterlife, tend to live their life less fully, more complaining, and fearful.
the point is that if i believe i have only a single life, i will therefore conclude there life is short, and very precious. As a result of this concluding thought, i will therefore try to make this life well lived.
also, by not believeing in afterlife, it would not make me cannot have afterlife if there is a afterlife after all. so i do not need to worry that by not believeing, i am therefore have no afterlie if there is a afterlife.
But what you mean by live life "fully"? There is no such concept as a full life. Life is just existence mah, "fullness" is an arbitary concept created by the neurons in our brains with no relation to reality. Your fear of not having a "full" life is irrational- there is no such thing as a full life. Life is just life, a series of chemical reactions to aid genes to be passed on.
But yah in that case, why are you wasting precious seconds of your limited life talking about this? If you talk about this or not is not going to change how your life pans out.
The best thing to do, now realizing that all things like love, kindness, goodness and all that stuff are just chemical reactions... might as well live our life doing whatever it wants, whoever it hurts. After all, conscience does not matter anymore and we should just do whatever we want as selfishly as we can. -
people who believes in afterlife, tend to live their life less fully, more complaining, and fearful.
I think science would disagree.
Quite so, it has been postulated that beliefs in the afterlife were created as an instinctive coping method to deal with the fear of death, and one that has worked since humans first arrived on earth given how it has persisted even in our modern age. The arrivial of post-modernism (which is somewhat of a modern form of afterlife coping behaviour) shows that the modernist approach towards death (the one you are using now to regard death) is apparently highly inadequate.
Hence, if would be unscientific to say that belive who believe in the afterlife will have a lower quality of life then those who toss it aside, because by all measures, the very purpose of a coping method is to reduce the stress of any stressing factor.
I'm afraid you are quite wrong in this case, if life is a delusion with no meaning, it logically follows the most deluded individuals are the happiest ones, not the ones who try to scrap together the ashes after the delusion is broken.
But of course, I personally subscribe to a different school of thought then the materialist view of life. But this is just my view on the materialist way of thought- I simply think it's inadequate.
Some seem to think that by becoming absolute reductionistsand materialists one can learn the truth... but they don't seem to realize that in that very process they destroy the very concept and notion of truth to the point their answers don't really mean anything. Hence I beg to differ from them. -
Hey People, Don't Kid Yourself! 99% of people are afraid of death! Fear is an instinctive defensive behavior of all living creatures and there are just so many reasons why each of us fear death.
And since eons ago till now, religion have been the main subject to tell us about life, death and afterlife issues. Science, as I understand, is the least comforting way of addressing the issues of death.
However, there are ways to be much less fearful of death. Find out why you are afraid of death, give your life more purpose, harden yourself, stay healthy and fit, etc. -
its not death i fear
its hanging in between life and death that i fear
i dont mind to die
but to not be entirely alive, and yet not dead.... -
When I was 9 years old...? The thought just came to me quite suddenly.. Then I questioned my mum and elder sister about why people have to die..? I think I shocked them somehow...?Originally posted by january:i just wanna check.
i mean i dun feel fear all the time. but sometimes, once in a while, if it hit me, i will fearful thinking i will die one day, or sometime soon.
have you all feel fear about ur mortality before, even for a short while?
another irony for people who have feared their own death before but feels okay if you ask them now is that they dun fear already but yet they do not dare to do alot of things in life.
Since the age of 16 which I've started to identify myself as a Devil, death is no longer really a form of 'fear' in my 'life'.... -
Hmm..Originally posted by udontknowme:its not death i fear
its hanging in between life and death that i fear
i dont mind to die
but to not be entirely alive, and yet not dead.... -
Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:What then may I ask, is so bad about deluding ourselves to be happy if we really have nothing to lose? If everything is indeed an illusion and we have no free will... then it does not really matter if what we think is right or wrong (right or wrong are just arbitary illusions). Might as well delude ourselves with whatever we are happy with believing.
The most rational thing to do after doing all the math would be to take an unlikely chance (belief in an afterlife), then no chance at all (belief in certain annihilation).
I mean I could delude myself to be so much happier then sulk and panic from day to day about my impending fate. Better still, I can go out and make full use of all the people I know and do all the things I want with no regard for law, rules and right and wrong. After all, since you are nothing more then a carrier for your genes, have one life and what matters is how much mileage you can get out of it.
If life is just one big prank of a side effect caused by genes needing to find any possible way to replicate their patters, might as well play along with it instead of getting all angsty by trying to see behind the scenes and yet be powerless to do anything about it.
Somehow sounds like an arguement on 'Matrix theory'?Originally posted by january:deluding ourselves if we have nothing to lose? i disagree with this stement strongly. people who believes in afterlife, tend to live their life less fully, more complaining, and fearful.
the point is that if i believe i have only a single life, i will therefore conclude there life is short, and very precious. As a result of this concluding thought, i will therefore try to make this life well lived.
also, by not believeing in afterlife, it would not make me cannot have afterlife if there is a afterlife after all. so i do not need to worry that by not believeing, i am therefore have no afterlie if there is a afterlife.
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Can I 'pai' you as 'shi fu'...?
if you think that you are "existing" right now and there is a "you" or "I" right now (in the way you think there is) as you are reading this, think again!
read this for starters...
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/81bc32e4-d5e3-11db-99b7-000b5df10621.htmlBut the American neuroscientist Benjamin Libet has shown that before every such movement, there is a distinctive build-up of electrical activity in the brain. And this build-up happens about half a second before your conscious ”decision” to move your arm. So by the time you think, ”OK, I’ll move my arm,” your body is halfway there. Which means your conscious experience of making a decision - the experience associated with free will - is just a kind of add-on, an after-thought that only happens once the brain has already set about its business. In other words, your brain is doing the real work, making your hands turn the pages of this magazine or reach over for your cup of tea, and all the time your conscious mind is tagging along behind.
It is as if, after years of driving around in your car, you discover that the steering-wheel is not attached to anything, and the car has been steering by itself.
Two neuroscientists working in Australia have taken LibetÂ’s discovery one step further. They found that, when asking people to choose to move either their left or right hands, it was possible to influence their choice by electronically stimulating certain parts of their brains. So, for example, the scientists could force the subjects always to choose to move their left hands. But despite their choice being electronically directed, these patients continued to report that they were freely choosing which hand to move.
So not only is your steering wheel not attached to anything, but if your car was being steered by someone else by remote control, you would not even notice. Every time it turns left, you just move your toy steering wheel and think, ”Ah yes, I want to turn left.”
[b]It is possible to get rid of the fear of death... pai me shi fu and I might teach you a thing or two
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Fear exist when you choose to live by it....Originally posted by sgquitter:to TS >
yes, i totally understand how u feel. in fact i realised this since i was very young.
People who say "no fear of death" do not really think about it alot. And people who are religious tend to brush it off thinking "there is life after death". In fact, all religions try to explain life after death - which is really very comforting, yet very delusional.
It is people like you and me and others who are more rational and had thought about it more seriously, we understood that death means non-existence and that itself is really a very horrible thought. Many nights juz before i sleep i had panic attacks whenever the idea crossed my mind. however, that was long time ago.
when i first came to realize that, i talked to my sis about my fears, and of coz, my sis didnt understand and commented that she wasn't afraid of dying but was more afraid of being old and having a weak body and would rather die around age 60+. i tried to explain the concept of non-existence but she obviously didnt get it. she felt that "its good - juz like sleeping". oh well...
many years passed, and suddenly one night my sis was startled - she juz came to realise what i had been talking about - non-existence in death. she still get panic attacks sometimes, even now.
it seems to me that this idea is somewhat of an enlightenment - it cannot be truely understood by words, the person has to realise it himself. but i kinda regret the fact that my sis realised it, becoz it put her in misery n panic attacks juz like me. i kinda feel guilty - i hope she didnt came to the realisation becoz of my talking to her, but by her own thinking.
now for me, i try not to think about it - coz nothing can change it. sometimes i still get panic but much lesser now. my advise is - you have to come to terms with it, and it might take some time. try to think about other stuff whenever u start to think about death.
wish u well.
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Originally posted by january:apparently u are not very scientific person.
death most likely means the end of existence for yourself FOREVER an EVER lah...
i also wish can go to another place. but i am realistic also.. i am just like the snail or the dog, just an animal who will just become ash. i will not exist, i will not even think when i am died. so when i am dead, i cannot even say. "oh i am dead". there will be no more "I".... -
If death is really a total end to you by all means... then all this talk about life having any value and meaning is really moot.
We are better off deluding ourselves in whatever we want to believe that will cause the best results in giving us most pleasure, morality, the rights of others and all that stuff be ignored.
Why cling on to all those concepts of truth, right, and justice anyway? Does not an evil person who enjoy's life from getting the most out of the world go to the grave so much happier?
So stop trying to find meaning in your experiences... there is no such thing as meaning. It is all an illusion created by evolution as a side effect of finding machines to reproduce genes.
That is, if you believe in the materialist approach to life. -
your views are too extreme and you sound too emotional.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:If death is really a total end to you by all means... then all this talk about life having any value and meaning is really moot.
We are better off deluding ourselves in whatever we want to believe that will cause the best results in giving us most pleasure, morality, the rights of others and all that stuff be ignored.
Why cling on to all those concepts of truth, right, and justice anyway? Does not an evil person who enjoy's life from getting the most out of the world go to the grave so much happier?
So stop trying to find meaning in your experiences... there is no such thing as meaning. It is all an illusion created by evolution as a side effect of finding machines to reproduce genes.
That is, if you believe in the materialist approach to life.
u seem to be talking abt different issue , out of point. -
i hope i can die in my sleep. if i could choose.
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think too much spoil the brain ...
kill more brain cell and make u turn goo goo! heehee!
enjoy living and have a balance life...
=p -
its a question you have to face.Originally posted by Sakuraflower:think too much spoil the brain ...
kill more brain cell and make u turn goo goo! heehee!
enjoy living and have a balance life...
=p
its difficult topic but important.
in working, you always have the "what is the goal at the end" and the planning.
similarily, in our life we definitely have to ask what is at the end of our life.
only then we can come up with the goal and the planning.
enjoy living and have a balance life is a general advice.
its is correct but when you discuss it in details its not that straightforward.
balance- what is the right balance
life - what is life to you
enjoy - how to priortise enjoyment and responsibility
living - what is living to you? -
[Hi January and sgquitter.
I am really glad to know there are people whom, like me, look at Death and fear of becoming 'nothing'.
To me, its a scary thought, and has been tormenting me of late at night. In fact, this fear has been triggering itself more rapidly as I move towards the big 3.
I believe its a time when I need to find a way to come to terms with it. But I think a lot of people do not understand that emotion that is triggered, unless they share the same emotion as you or I.
Thus, what makes this even more horrible, is that, I can talk to others, but others seem nonchalant about it, thereby making me even more fearful of death (coz people tend to need support from others to face things they fear).
And, in the past, when you could consult everything with your parents, this particular fear cannot be consulted with your parents, coz you do not know how much impact it will have on your parents (since, they should probably leave this world before you). Thus, you cannot talk about this issue to them.
So it becomes a lonely fear, and something which is rather hard to cope with... -
hi, nice to hear from u.Originally posted by soul_rage:[Hi January and sgquitter.
I am really glad to know there are people whom, like me, look at Death and fear of becoming 'nothing'.
To me, its a scary thought, and has been tormenting me of late at night. In fact, this fear has been triggering itself more rapidly as I move towards the big 3.
I believe its a time when I need to find a way to come to terms with it. But I think a lot of people do not understand that emotion that is triggered, unless they share the same emotion as you or I.
Thus, what makes this even more horrible, is that, I can talk to others, but others seem nonchalant about it, thereby making me even more fearful of death (coz people tend to need support from others to face things they fear).
And, in the past, when you could consult everything with your parents, this particular fear cannot be consulted with your parents, coz you do not know how much impact it will have on your parents (since, they should probably leave this world before you). Thus, you cannot talk about this issue to them.
So it becomes a lonely fear, and something which is rather hard to cope with...
for me its not affecting me that much. maybe cos i quite good at manage emotions. i think your case you alittle bit conditioned to be afraid about it to an extent that you experience it more.
i guess the concept of not existing is not intuitive enough so its hard for people to imagine it. for you, always get a professional cousellor number ready by your side so that when you feel like getting help. but your case should not be too serious and should dwell off as time passes.
as for unconditioning of fear, the process is the same, how people unconditioned the fear of water, and spider. what you can do is to face it head on when you are free. try to trigger it, though i think its not easy to trigger it intentionally. if can trigger, experience the emotion and dun be to too absorb with your thoughts about it. just observe your body and allow things to flow.
keep practising until you have unconditioned the fear.
as for the explanation of to how to deal with death of self. the answer is acceptance
the advantage of your experience of this fear like me and sgquitters is that you have more memory in the future with regards to knowing that you will not exist one day. Henceforth, you will try to make sure that your this one life is well lived as possible.
it is no doubt a bad thing that i shall not exist one day forever, but i no need to be fearful about it
its not that simple, but just keep practising as i am doing it also. you should try to compare with the smaller things in life that you fear like stage presentation, going after a girl you like or whatever that you tend to worry and fear and realize that this smaller fear can be unlearnt to allow you live more happier and less fearful.
for me, the idea of me still living and not dead yet pop up in me occasionally. its a good reference and reminder of my existence. its like a angel hanging beside your head actually.
get used to the panic it brings once in a while then you will get more used to it. -
I used to fear dying too. Without leaving anything of impact behind OR taking anything of value with me.
That changed when I slowly came to the fact all mortals will face mortality someday. We are counting down towards our last breath as we speak (in this case, as we read), so fear of death slowly takes a turn to making something worthwhile while I am alive.
I hope to impact people positively by the time I take my leave. Seeing too much pain and sadness in this world, we need champions of humanity to instill hope and cultivate love among humans. Superman of DC comics is a good role model.
Leaving behind a name for myself is of no matter, be it good or bad (hopefully not bad in this case) but I rather see good changes in other people's lives for the better and that they see hope amidst all the dark, barren realities of humanity destroying everything every minute. -
actually, experiencing this fear is a advantage and has benefits if you understand the signifiance of it.
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It gives you the extra motivation to do something about your life so that you can let the world acknowledge of your existence because of what you did. Or at least do something to make your life worthwhile so you would not have lived for nothing.Originally posted by january:actually, experiencing this fear is a advantage and has benefits if you understand the signifiance of it.
Is that what you are saying? -
Thanks January, Bontakun for the reply.
It is a consolation that I am not alone of this awareness of nothingness.
Anyway, my personality is that of a philosopher, and I guide my juniors using my philosophies of life. It gives me immense satisfaction seeing them grow and mature.
However, even the teacher himself has his own inner demons, and this is the inner demon that is tormenting me.
Lots of people can advise or speak to me, but ultimately, it is oneself that is able to face up to that fear.
Thanks very much guys, for sharing this. I feel better already -
I am happy for you, friend. (ok to call you 'friend'?)Originally posted by soul_rage:Thanks January, Bontakun for the reply.
It is a consolation that I am not alone of this awareness of nothingness.
Anyway, my personality is that of a philosopher, and I guide my juniors using my philosophies of life. It gives me immense satisfaction seeing them grow and mature.
However, even the teacher himself has his own inner demons, and this is the inner demon that is tormenting me.
Lots of people can advise or speak to me, but ultimately, it is oneself that is able to face up to that fear.
Thanks very much guys, for sharing this. I feel better already
Sometimes we find inspiring moments in the least expected situation. Take a look at young kids doing things. At first it may seem silly as they try as hard as they could to make things work, even when we see its not possible. However they do not give up and keep trying... At least until they are hungry or tired.
Inspiration comes when you look carefully around you. Even plants and crawling ants can inspire you if you observe carefully. -
I dread to think about the death of my loved ones more than my own death. Losing my lao kong or any of my children will most probably make me lose my mind.
*shiver*
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Sure, friendOriginally posted by Bontakun:I am happy for you, friend. (ok to call you 'friend'?)
Sometimes we find inspiring moments in the least expected situation. Take a look at young kids doing things. At first it may seem silly as they try as hard as they could to make things work, even when we see its not possible. However they do not give up and keep trying... At least until they are hungry or tired.
Inspiration comes when you look carefully around you. Even plants and crawling ants can inspire you if you observe carefully. Its a comforting thing to find people who understands that awareness.
Both you and January, thanks for sharing this out here. I believe there should come a day when I can face this awareness and be able to manage the fear that comes with it.
I once had a friend that laughed at me when I said I was frightened by a horror movie. I told him, 'It takes courage to admit you are afraid'. -
january, sgquitter and soul_rage,
Actually, someone had the same panic attack one day some 5000 years ago. He went on to start a philosophy based on that, and spent the rest of his life on the project. Not only did he eventually come to terms with that idea that he will be gone forever someday, he even learned to embrace it. You may want to have a look at some of his ideas and see if you can get any answer there.
http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/63/07879637/0787963763.pdf
Hope this helps!