With righteousness comes guilt
-
Wah lan eh! Can summarise your grandfather story anot? One look at the length, i'm not gonna waste my time reading it unless you are some terrific novellist.........
-
Well if you think I'm one then please feel free to read it.
-
Having read your post from the beginning to the end, I supposed your question is regarding how she will think of you when you eventually confess your feelings to her.
I believe you shouldn't be worrying about this issue as it's still a fair-distance away from where you are right now.
I would advise you to focus on getting to know the girl better and be a closer friend to her first, rather than focusing on what's happening around her. Most of the time, guys wasted their lives focusing on everything around the girl but missing out the important factor of knowing the girl better.
IF I were the girl, I will feel so frustrated with my own relationship problems and then you came along to further remind me about my own relationship dilemma....how good is that going to help you in your current friendship with this girl?
Be the one to draw her worries and attention away from her frustration in her current relationship, that's the best option that you should undertake. And I'm sure she will appreciate you more for doing that.
Good Luck. -
If u like her you shouldnt act like a concerned friend..And not involved in this..Seriously if you have intention on her your judgement is not like a concerned friend...
Take your move but not keep saying what her bf is just take your move forget about she and her bf topic..Lets say if she really like her bf alot will she believe on you No~~She will most likely be thinking why this guy keep want destory me and my bf relationship..And may lead to hatred..
If i am a really concerned friend what will i do..?I dont care how bad the guy is..The most important is how much she love the guy...If she really love him there is no chioce i will ask her to follow her heart..Because i wont want her to be really sad as a friend..But if she got doubts on him,then maybe can tell her how bad her bf is and suggest for a break..
A Example lets say i have a bf he is very bad Many people will tell me to break off
with him and say bad things about my bf...When you listen too many of this same kind of topic what will you do..treat them as rubbish??And lets say i love my bf alot Who will i listen my bf or friends..?Think properly..^^~~Good luck.. -
What do you mean by "Critical Point"??Originally posted by chthonic:JoJo : Now that you have mentioned about my experience , I will take your note of your words. You have my assurance.
Well actually lots of her friends (if not most of them) are kind of against it and they give similar reasons to mine because they themselves know him personally. Anyways I've getting advice from people who tell me to stay away from this entire thing.
The thing is , is it possible to stay away from the entire thing considering that things have reached its critical point now? -
1) Ever wonder why she has never spoken to you since you know her so long?Originally posted by chthonic:I have a friend whom I've known since my childhood days. She used to stay around my area and is from the same church (I'm not talking religion here) as me. Our parents know each other for how many donkey years already. Her mom is my music teacher so I go to her house every week for lessons. She's been teaching me piano for the past 3 years and although she's quite strict on me at times , she said that its because she dotes on me and yes I'm really appreciative of it.
Here's the main point. Although I kind of liked her (my teacher's daughter) for quite some time already , I never had the guts to strike up a conversation with her. It took me sometime to finally strike up a conversation with her with positive results. That was about 2 months ago. Imagine I knew her since my primary school days and only 2 months ago did I really had a real conversation with her!
She's a sanguine (adopted from the 4 temprements) , meaning that she's the very outgoing , over excited , optimistic , cheerful , enjoys being in big groups , likes to be the "star" of the group , talkative etc.
I'm a melancholic , which is like the direct opposite of a sanguine but of course I have my own friends and get along with them very well. I'm just not very fond of being in big groups because the bigger the group becomes , the more indecisive the group becomes. Actually I'm a mix of a melancholic and a phlegmatic and so I do not fully possess all the characteristics of a melancholic. But I still see beauty in which people tend to overlook. And yes I'm a extremely righteous person. I have this strong desire to do something about things which I see "injustice" in.
Sorry I just can't help but mention the 4 temprements because I'm very intrigued by it.
The thing is well 2 weeks after I first striked up a conversation with her , she went steady with her first boyfriend. He's like 2 years younger than her. She's 17 and I'm 19. Although I was never fond of him because I felt that he was like a typical misguided teenager who engages in underage smoking , underage drinking and piercings for the sake of being "cool" blindly but I just decided not to bother so much about it. Besides my friend likes her as well and so I just decided to sit in one corner and not let myself get involved in this entire political scene brewing. Let these guys settle their own problems themselves.
Barely a month into their relationship , their relationship has come to light and practically they were like the talk of the town among the youth groups in my church. To cut a long story short , her mom (my piano teacher) came to know about it but decided to keep quiet about it. She actually accepted him secretly at first but after one particular incident that happened , her impression of him changed drastically. Now her mom is like forcing her to break with him.
All these while I've given her my honest opinions of what I felt about her relationship because I saw some "injustice" prevailing and I felt strongly that I had to do something about it. Of course I'm NOT NOT NOT like those idiots who go like ,"ya ya break up with him , he's a jerk!" and then later go steady with the girl. I have my own principles when it comes to such things. For me although I'm not really fond of him , I gave her my reasons (in a nice way) why I'm not really fond of him and this entire relationship thing she's going through. As much as I really liked her , I decided to put my feelings aside (I really mean it!) and play the role of the concerned friend towards her.
Her mom asked me for advice pertaining to her daughter's boyfriend and I don't know why , my righteous self took control and gave her my honest opinions which were quite critical because I honestly truthfully sincerely cannot find anything good about this relationship. His level of maturity being the crux of the issue. You know like you tell him to do some simple projecting and he'll go like , "Aiyah I don't want to make mistakes lah....too many powerpoint slides!" or perhaps when the folks invite him for lunch and he'll go like ,"Aiyah it's okay lah...you go ahead without me" ask him again in 5 minutes and he'll give another excuse like ,"Ohhhh my mom is cooking dinner for me now...."
Now that this entire issue has reach its critical point with her mom forcing her to stay away from him. You know as much as I would like to help her as a friend I swear tide over such forseeable circumstances , but at the back of my head , I feel quite guilty in that I don't know I have this feeling that I'm being the evil 3rd party. I don't want her to think that I was the one who soured their entire relationship with my honestly critical comments made towards the guy and things would be worst if I ever told her I liked her! If I told her I like her , she would probably think that I was the evil 3rd party which caused her relationship to fall apart! Of course I never ever I swear that I never had any evil intentions behind my back. It's just my righteous self fighting for "injustice" prevailing in her relationship.
Yes I like her but right now , I have put my feelings aside and play the role of the concern friend towards her.
If she breaks up with him , of course I'll just play the role of the concerned friend here and try my best to help her in anyway to the best of my ability. But of course....there will come a time where I would have to confess my feelings for her. I intend to take this slow and being a melancholic I'm a cautious person which means that....well.....I take things slow and easy!
But the question is , what would she think of me when the times comes for me to confess my feelings for her?
Having said all these , I hope the kind people here would provide me with some practical advice.
2) Ever wonder why she chose the bad guy bf? -
Obviously, she needs time to bump aound to see who's really good, and who's really bad.Originally posted by zeny:1) Ever wonder why she has never spoken to you since you know her so long?
2) Ever wonder why she chose the bad guy bf?
For now, she's just blinded by plain love. Not really ready to see the future of love in the sense of progression. -
Both parties are negotiating the fate of the r/s at this very moment.Originally posted by jojobeach:What do you mean by "Critical Point"??
The mom wants to break them on one side while the daughter wants to learn things the hard way on the other side. -
1) I never had the guts to strike up a conversation with her for so long because I was shy and I admit that. I was waiting for that "perfect" opportunity to strike up a conversation with her but when the "perfect" opportunity finally came it was a little bit too late.Originally posted by zeny:1) Ever wonder why she has never spoken to you since you know her so long?
2) Ever wonder why she chose the bad guy bf?
2) I seriously don't know why. The only good point I've heard about him is that he is as cool and calm as a cucumber and she felt that he was matured for his age. Note that he is matured for a 15 year old guy and not 2-3 years above the maturity level of a typical 15 year old.
Well she has been liking him for a few months already and vice versa. I'm not sure whether she knew about his bad habits before going steady. -
Actually on a side note , most of the time we are talking about stuff outside her own personal issues. It's just that once in a while the topic is brought up and I just give 1 or 2 of my honest comments about this entire thing.Originally posted by Shanks23:Take your move but not keep saying what her bf is just take your move forget about she and her bf topic..Lets say if she really like her bf alot will she believe on you No~~She will most likely be thinking why this guy keep want destory me and my bf relationship..And may lead to hatred..
Will that be counted as having cruel intentions?
Her friends are like constantly talking behind her back with regards to this issue..... -
Well, its good that u explain ur situation in great detail , detailing many things for most ppl here to give a detailed thought of what they would think is the best course of action for you under the circumstances.
This is what i think u should do. U can take into account of the other advices given , which most of them gave u positive advices.
lets skip the whole u know her for ages...yadi yada.. n how she is strict , and only get close to her now. thats not the point. U guys know each other n talk to each other now alraedy.
She n her bf are reaching 'Critical Point' as u say , n its inevitable that they will break up , in your words. Now based on the fact that they are going to break up , u should stop saying anything negative about the guy. Instead , focus on what her parents say about him and also what others say about him. So it doesnt sound like YOU have a personal agenda. Some girls dont like it.
Most likely she will want to try to stick with the guy against the mothers wishes. since u are in the sidelines able to see whats going on totally , i suggest u be there as her close friend first. Knowing all the details. Because more information means more advantage and it will come to a time when u can make or break the relationship.Be there , around. Your presence more known and familiar, but dont try to impose personal negative comments on her about the guy. Just make sure u are there when they break. And thats when u move in for the kill.Unless of course u only see her as a friend... but if u want her , that is one of the ways to succeed under the circumstances.
But then again , she may just like the bad boy type. But my advice is just to increase your chances of success and knowing what to do under the circumstances not look bad , and at the same time trying to win her over.
Damned if u dont , damned if you do. You got nothing to lose.
Oh and one more thing , ur topic sounds like you carry the burden of righteousness..lol! I think its more like u having a conscience and not able to do those under-handed tactics. =P -
ooops... double post
-
Frankly, I don't see this being a critical point at all.Originally posted by chthonic:Both parties are negotiating the fate of the r/s at this very moment.
The mom wants to break them on one side while the daughter wants to learn things the hard way on the other side.
Besides, what makes you so sure you're gonna get the girl ?
IF she breaks off with her "scumbag" bf, she wouldn't necessary have to chose you.
Just because her mom likes you, doesn't mean she will too.
And are you so sure her mom would accept you more because you are her music student ?
Don't try to be the evil genius. It's gonna be a no win situation for you. -
Your signature says: "Darkness is something everyone can feel and only hypocrites deny."
Indeed. But screw that for now.
I think you need to be straightened up.
With all the bad things the bad boyfriend is doing wrong, why donÂ’t you ask yourself what type of girl would want to be in a relationship with that kind of person?
You seem to resent her bad boyfriend for all his flaws, which already proves deep down you, want to have his girl. So donÂ’t get all self-righteous and worked up over being seen as the evil guy here. Romeo is the guilty one with his cigarette smoking, lousy lying, church skipping, and d*ck piercing habits. On the contrary, you are the studious melancholic; a musically inclined, religious young man filled with pure intentions. Gee. How fancy. Why canÂ’t you just admit the fact that with Juliet here, you harbor ulterior motives?
ThereÂ’ll be tips from people along the way telling you when to strike and how to strike. You already know what to do. But no oneÂ’s warned you about being the boring rebound guy yet. Why worry about the old ma and Romeo? All you should be concerned about is JulietÂ’s interest level in you. Sounds like you have a lot of work to do since thereÂ’d been no conversation in all 10 years. Then 2 weeks after you strike, she dates the bad boy. Gee I wonderÂ…what the hell was your opening line again?
You couldnÂ’t play it cool and smart and instead of working on Juliet, youÂ’ve been working her mother. Passing the parent test doesnÂ’t mean you pass the attraction test. What have they been teaching you in church kid?
Why wonÂ’t she leave the bad boyfriend then? And you are working your ass off for medal of honor from the old ma she is rebelling against. Does it make sense now why you aren't the the boy she fell for?
On second thoughts, why should she leave the bad boyfriend when sheÂ’s got him for the loving and you to listen to her problems?
Juliet has her cake and sheÂ’s eating it too.
The good news is, with all that sucking up, you might just end up with her. The bad news is, only for a while as convalescence. WonÂ’t be long before nutcase Juliet goes tooting off in search for another bad example to nurture. ItÂ’s just biological programming for some females.
As for now, spend more time on other girls, school and grow some testicles. I hate to visualize an intelligent and sensitive young man like yourself in the kitchen eating pie with old piano stumping ma while your peers are out having the time of their lives and getting to know better quality girls.
Lastly, in spite of all the complication caused by others, all R and J has to do is switch off their mobiles for half an hour and slow dance together. I call it minor inconvenience. -
I would like to clearify some things here.
Yes I like her but I won't say I'll definitely get her.
I've only talked to her mom ONCE about this I only gave my honest thoughts pertaining to one issue. That's all nothing more than that.
Everytime we (her daughter) and I meet , we talk about other stuffs. It is only once in a while that we talk about her issues.
I appreciate alternative comments (ang moh flameboyant criticism style) but I hope people can actually understand that what they say might just be the work of schimas. Eg : An ang moh guy cheated on me , I felt depressed for years and felt like committing suicide and so I then generalise that all ang moh guys as players. Although one can just say ,"I'm just questioning your inner most thoughts" , yes I appreciate that but just make sure you don't allow schimas to cloud your way of thought.
I swear upon my china ancestors grave (again) that I have no intention of poisoning her mom's mind to my advantage. I work hard for my music , her mom gets happy (or even has a good impression of me as result) but that is just a separate entity. Sad to say it's hard to justify my inner most intentions here because in the world of cyberspace , it's all just words.
Again I appreciate alternative comments because sometimes we all need to hear the good , bad and ugly side of every story to be able to fully understand the entire picture.
But please don't go around accusing me of things which is of an exaggerated version of my plight now. Eg: I've gave my honest opinion ONLY ONCE to her mom about this issue but to actually accuse me of poisoning her mom's mind to my advantage? You can't possibiliy poison someone's mind with a single dosage right? Geez even if that was the case , rats would be extinct by now.
And so with this , I'm taking a step back now and NO I don't intend to say any more things to her mom with regards to this issue. -
JoJo :
I've read your experience with your ex bf and seriously my sentiments goes out to you. I know how you feel , having to step out of the house every morning going to school/work and you see his mom sweeping the floor at the common corridor and his mom is like ,"Hello good morning!" and you smile back while in your mind you're like ,"f**k you b***ch for raising such a f**ked up son all these years! You ought to burn in hell!" or perhaps after school/work entering the lift at your block and suddenly this guy comes rushing into the lift only to find that he is your ex. I know where you are coming from.
I'm not bearing any grudges against you but it's just that somehow I feel that you are judging me based on your past experience fueled by schimas.
Suppose if your ex bf was exactly like me , self righteous , honest , sincere , musically/artistically inclined etc , do you suppose I'm like a carbon copy of your ex bf?
Just imagine yourself as a judge preciding a criminal case. A kills B because A loves C so much and B is complicating things up. Let's just classify this as a crime of passion. As a judge what do you while handling the case when the lawyers on both sides are giving you 2 sides to a storey?
You dismiss the 1st court session , then lock youself up in the Supreme Court reference library and spend the entire day (9am to 12 midnight) going through the various similar case studies which might of relevance to your case. This is how judges come to a final judgement , they go through stacks of criminal law case studies until they filter out cases which is similar to the one which he is handling.
Just go to "Crime of Passion" section of the library , seeve out stacks of case studies and go through all of them. Suppose if you spend the entire day neglecting sleep going through the various similar case studies and you finally come to a case study that is off 100% relavance to your case , does the process end after this?
Suppose if the judge were to find a case study that is of 100% relavance to his case , isn't it as good as saying , "Yes now I can pass my judgement to the defendent and yes he shall suffer in hell!!!!" There is more to the Singapore jurisdiction system than just finding case studies of 100% relevance and passing judgements the following day.
If that was the case then Took would have been sentenced to death the day after received his first trail for Huang Na's muder , Anthony Ler would be have sentenced to death the day after his first trail for killing his ex wife.
You know every country's jurisdiction system would love to implement that kind of system. Find case studies of 100% relevance and pass a judgement the following day. I mean every county wants to have an "efficient" (in terms of speed) legal system right? But that is never the case....
What I'm citing is that , yes although my plight may be like a case study of 100% relevance to your past experience , does it mean you have to judge me based on such a criteria?
Do you have to generalise all righteous people as hypocrites based on the haunting experience of your past relationship with your neighbour? If so then you have to ask youself , "Are my schimas taking control of my way of thinking?" -
You mean Schema ?
Our jurisdiction system is imperfect.
Ya heard of mandatory or persuasive precedent ?
Anyway, you can chose to avoid failures by other's past experience.
Or you can chose your own path and seek the truth yourself.
This is why you posted here in the first place. -
timing is very important.
my advice.. u dun have to tell her how bad that guy is etc.. i believe ple ard her will tell her.. wat u can do is to be there for her.. and time will tell and prove to her how good u are.
do u know about Mediacorp artiste Zeng Shi Mei and Tang Yu Shu's story? They have been very good frens.. Alan loved her for the past few years.. but she was attached to someone for 5 years.. as a gentleman, he did not do anything to shaken their r/s or watever.. but was always there for her. After she broke up with her bf, she then realized that Alan is really a nice guy, and accepted him. They are getting married in October. -
Yeah pardon my atrocious spelling habits.Originally posted by jojobeach:You mean Schema ?
Our jurisdiction system is imperfect.
Ya heard of mandatory or persuasive precedent ?
Anyway, you can chose to avoid failures by other's past experience.
Or you can chose your own path and seek the truth yourself.
This is why you posted here in the first place.
I appreciate you having shared your experience but I just don't appreciate people judging me based on their own personal schemas. What might work for one may not work for the other.
Of course there is always the possibility of experiencing failure following the footsteps of your experience , but that is what life is all about. Tried , tested and proven. This is the risk which I wish to undertake and I take full responsibility for whatever happens to me.
I posted here is because I want to listen to both sides of the story in terms of what people have to say. I seriously don't mind alternative points of view as long as what they say makes practical sense. -
Anyways I'll be out of town and will only be back on the 18 June. Will try to reply the moment I get back.
Just in case some people have the impression that I'm "running away from the truth".
Cheers -
here is something for u, it just suddenly reminded me of why i take risks.N until today i still remember this line..Originally posted by chthonic:Yeah pardon my atrocious spelling habits.
Of course there is always the possibility of experiencing failure following the footsteps of your experience , but that is what life is all about. Tried , tested and proven. This is the risk which I wish to undertake and I take full responsibility for whatever happens to me.
The Greatest risk is to risk nothing, The Person who risk nothing , does nothing , has nothing ; is nothing and becomes nothing. -
Okay I'm back.
With regards your quote on the greatest risk is to risk nothing at all....
High Risk = High Returns
Sorry lah I can't help it....I come from a business academic background.
Anyways I would like to thank you guys for all your inputs whether being constructive good or bad comments. I really appreciate it.
I'm really taking a step back now and right now and I don't know what is the current situation of things now because I don't wish to ask her about this entire matter. I rather let myself find everything out the natural way. -
I'll bow my head if they ever make it past the 1st years