Good Parenting Skills-Eastern/Western
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Good point. I agree that in real life relationships, we have to listen to both sides of the story before making judgements about treating people. Too many people are guilty of not doing that..Originally posted by royale9:I would say that reprehending the husband would be incongruous.
we only heard one side of the story.
In this case, it's an AA column, and we are all just trying to help offer suggestions.
It could be a fictional story for all we know, but we just want to make a difference.. so we give the benefit of the doubt.
For that, certain assumptions would have to be made. I think. -
yes I know. Sometimes I know he tried and I appreciate. many times he does not tell me of the decisions he made and etc. He loves his family and wants me be join them and be a part. There are always going to be issues and such things. He cannot take it too hard but he does. I know he felt pressured and forced and therefore has no choice. I wonder, if only he speak to me but he has spoken more to his mother than to me. Then I think, if he is in such a unhappy state and is forced beyond reason, then why continue. I told him, its not logic and if he need space, I am willing to give. We stay in separate rooms anyway. If he need to have me away from the house, I will do so. I am not willing to make him unhappy. I am not willing to make anyone unhappy. Because that is all I hear day in day out. I can only conclude I am the reason.
I believe that one guy try to please 2 women is setting himself for a lot of trouble. And for the wife, she will always lose if he is a mommy boy. -
I suggest a thing which u can do...Originally posted by mistyblue:yes I know. Sometimes I know he tried and I appreciate. many times he does not tell me of the decisions he made and etc. He loves his family and wants me be join them and be a part. There are always going to be issues and such things. He cannot take it too hard but he does. I know he felt pressured and forced and therefore has no choice. I wonder, if only he speak to me but he has spoken more to his mother than to me. Then I think, if he is in such a unhappy state and is forced beyond reason, then why continue. I told him, its not logic and if he need space, I am willing to give. We stay in separate rooms anyway. If he need to have me away from the house, I will do so. I am not willing to make him unhappy. I am not willing to make anyone unhappy. Because that is all I hear day in day out. I can only conclude I am the reason.
I believe that one guy try to please 2 women is setting himself for a lot of trouble. And for the wife, she will always lose if he is a mommy boy.
You ask him to write down a list of what he thinks of you, strengths and weaknesses... and a list of roles of what he thinks u should do, and give gradings 1-5 of performance... and also more importantly, a list of what he thinks his role as a husband to you is, and give himself gradings 1-5.
And you write a list of his strengths and weaknesses.. and also your roles of a wife, and grade urself, and his roles of a husband and grade him.
All on condition of confidentiality, meaning nothing leaks out to ur MIL.
And compare notes...
If he is not willing to do that, tell him u are trying to improve things, and that he needs to play his part.
When you compare notes, I think both of u might be in for a shock of the degree of difference in expectations... and work on from there..
Hope that helps... -
For example, your sheet could look likeOriginally posted by ordinaryguy32:I suggest a thing which u can do...
You ask him to write down a list of what he thinks of you, strengths and weaknesses... and a list of roles of what he thinks u should do, and give gradings 1-5 of performance... and also more importantly, a list of what he thinks his role as a husband to you is, and give himself gradings 1-5.
And you write a list of his strengths and weaknesses.. and also your roles of a wife, and grade urself, and his roles of a husband and grade him.
All on condition of confidentiality, meaning nothing leaks out to ur MIL.
And compare notes...
If he is not willing to do that, tell him u are trying to improve things, and that he needs to play his part.
When you compare notes, I think both of u might be in for a shock of the degree of difference in expectations... and work on from there..
Hope that helps...
Husband's strength
==============
sincere
trieds hard
Husband's weakness
===============
sides mom too much
gets upset easily
Your strength
==========
accommodating
Your weakness
===========
cannot please his mom
Husband's role
===========
I want a husband that listen to me more often
Wife's role
========
Support his efforts
and so on....
Think hard about the list and ask him to do it too....
Other additional points are:
1) What are your common dreams and hopes
2) What are your best moments together before marriage
3) What are your best moments after marriage
4) When's the last time he gives you a present that you like
5) When's the last time you give him a present that he likes
In case you haven't noticed, these are questions a counsellor may ask...
I am not one, but I have seen questions like this before... and they really help. -
Once you have made the list and compared notes, discuss how to remove weaknesses and increase the strengths..
Be solution-oriented, instead of being upset at the sheer difficulty of the tasks.
And then make little commitments to stick to the action items, all on condition of confidentiality...
Be your own counsellor....
Hope that is useful... -
Don't be so hard on yourself, give yourself a break.Originally posted by mistyblue:thank you. its great advice and you're all quite sharp.... i live in a blurr...
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Originally posted by mistyblue:yes I know. Sometimes I know he tried and I appreciate. many times he does not tell me of the decisions he made and etc. He loves his family and wants me be join them and be a part. There are always going to be issues and such things. He cannot take it too hard but he does. I know he felt pressured and forced and therefore has no choice. I wonder, if only he speak to me but he has spoken more to his mother than to me. Then I think, if he is in such a unhappy state and is forced beyond reason, then why continue. I told him, its not logic and if he need space, I am willing to give. We stay in separate rooms anyway. If he need to have me away from the house, I will do so. I am not willing to make him unhappy. I am not willing to make anyone unhappy. Because that is all I hear day in day out. I can only conclude I am the reason.
I believe that one guy try to please 2 women is setting himself for a lot of trouble. And for the wife, she will always lose if he is a mommy boy.
/me pat pat.
I don't know how much more you can sustain in this manner. But at least, I can guarantee that this will always be an online haven for you.
Misty, do you have a religion?
Cheers -
Originally posted by Chin Eng: 10 July 2007 · 11:08 AMwhat are experts?
Re: Experts in Parenting TechniquesOriginally posted by Chin Eng: 10 July 2007 · 12:56 PMso what are experts.....?
if, say, someone you know has done the above (short of writing a book - sarcasm unintended) he is an expert......
but because there is no hard facts ie qualifications, credentials to officially recognise the expertise, wouldn't you say then, the credentials are the children?
that being the case, in the first place, these people who "had spent time and effort to think through all the issues" stuck through their beliefs and were successful in raising kids, how the delusional part come in...?
seems that you are quite attached the word "delusional"....
Every book you read there will be people that support or detract the book. That is because, nobody can write for "everybody". I am a writer. I know. You can write in simple language for children and use simple concepts since you are targeting at children. You can also write as if you are writing for experts in the field and consider very advance concepts, AND THERE ARE MANY TYPES OF PEOPLE IN BETWEEN!
The reader must play his part. S/he must read with a critical mind and that is, S/he must consider what is written and the bases (reasons, explanation) behind the concepts, whether they agree with the concepts and techniques taught them in the book.
In that sense there are no "bad" books. You read the book and all the book does is to "give you ideas". You then pick up the "good" ideas and suitable ideas and discard those that are not suitable for you or you are not convinced based on the reasons provided by the writer.
You need not worry about the book giving you the wrong ideas if you read books critically and intelligently.
I think we all know that Chin Eng is one of the Moderators of ~Eternal Hope~ a Christian forum (Moderators: sillyme, Chin Eng, ben1xy) and I am brining this up because it is relevant and not meant to insult anyone). I think that it is important to know where CE as Mod of a Christian forum and a religious person is coming from when he asks "what experts"?.
Christians and other religious people are taught to "accept" "believe" and "not criticize". It is "THE WORD of GOD". They are expected to believe that "GOD SAID IT, I BELIEVE IT, AND THAT SETTLES IT."
Google Results 1 - 10 of about 9,960 for "God Said It, I Believe It, That Settles It".
What if what they believe are not the words of GOD (forgetting for a moment that there is no objective proof of a God or even if there is a God/s; that the God/s is even interested in man) and what if a man/men was/were clever enough to write/compile a holy book and tell people "GOD SAID IT, YOU JUST HAVE TO BELIEVE IT, AND THAT SETTLES IT."
In the real world, nobody is that "stupid" and will definitely not say:
"GOD (who? is there a GOD?!!! and if yes, which GOD?!!!) SAID IT (are you sure it was GOD that said it and not the preacher or the writer of the "HOLY BOOK"?!!! Did GOD appear on TV and said it?!! If not, why not?!!!) I BELIEVE IT (why should I believe it, and what are the reasons that I should believe it?!!!) AND THAT SETTLES IT (of course that's not it, I am not that stupid!!! You want me to believe you and give you money every week, you have to give me good reasons?!!!!)."
This type of thinking, faith, is very dangerous because you can end up with very dangerous beliefs, like the suicide bombers and have many delusions in your head. He is the EXPERT, he is the RELIGIOUS leader, it is the HOLY BOOK!, he is the PRIME MINISTER and so I must believe and not question.
You can imagine the suicide bomber going : "GOD SAID IT I BELIEVE IT AND THAT SETTLES IT" and you can see that even doctors can become suicide bombers because they tell themselves "GOD SAID IT I BELIEVE IT AND THAT SETTLES IT."
In the real world people will question the validity of the concepts and techniques that other people (experts or otherwise) propose in books or websites and preaching. In the real world, people will read the reasons behind the proposals and accept or reject them accordingly.
ShrodingersCat: I think you have made is abundantly clear that you too are of the opinion that parents should seek expert advice and read as much as possible regarding the concepts and techniques of parenting, but you have cautioned that it might not necessarily lead to success. While it might not lead to success, there are no better alternatives.
This is like saying that people should go to school even though not everyone will pass the exams (there are no better alternatives, practically speaking). Or saying that people should go to hospitals even though some people die in hospitals (there are no better alternatives, practically speaking).
So it is, "read as much as possible on Parenting and learn as many ideas/concepts and techniques as possible but learn how to use the ideas/concepts and techniques wisely. -
I am really sorry for all you problems dear.Originally posted by mistyblue:yes I know. Sometimes I know he tried and I appreciate. many times he does not tell me of the decisions he made and etc. He loves his family and wants me be join them and be a part. There are always going to be issues and such things. He cannot take it too hard but he does. I know he felt pressured and forced and therefore has no choice. I wonder, if only he speak to me but he has spoken more to his mother than to me. Then I think, if he is in such a unhappy state and is forced beyond reason, then why continue. I told him, its not logic and if he need space, I am willing to give. We stay in separate rooms anyway. If he need to have me away from the house, I will do so. I am not willing to make him unhappy. I am not willing to make anyone unhappy. Because that is all I hear day in day out. I can only conclude I am the reason.
I believe that one guy try to please 2 women is setting himself for a lot of trouble. And for the wife, she will always lose if he is a mommy boy.
I just want to clarify that when I ask you to change... it is not to ask you to change for the sake of "other people". It is change for your own sake! Change for your own sanity! Change so that you will be happy!
For example, you said, change so that when they want a bigger car, I come up with the money? No change so that if you do not want to come up with the money, you do not feel guilty about it!
Change so that you will feel happy cleaning and picking up after them? No, change so that you will not feel guilty and "feel happy" NOT picking up after them.
Make your stand clear for everyone to see and know!
Compromise where you can but where you cannot compromise, make your stand clear.
Why must you give in to them? Why can't they give in to you?
From what you have written I get the sense that you are not happy about some issues but you "feel guilty" or "scared" to stand up for yourself.
Know that whatever you do, whether to stand up for yourself or continue as it is, there are and there will be consequences.
Are you scared that if you stand up for your rights, it will lead to divorce... well as you can see, not standing up for your rights, the word DIVORCE similarly crops up.
I am telling you that if you make your position clear and stand up for your rights (you can do it politely and quietly) it will be better.
You don't want to pick up after people, don't. They nag at you? Learn to ignore them! Lock yourself in your own room and watch TV there or use the computer to chat with your friends here.
You find the situation intolerable at home, call up a few friends and go out with them and if your husband ask, tell him "I find the situation intolerable at home and I need to go out with my friends once in a while, can?"
If he tells you hundred and one reasons why you cannot, listen to him politely and then just go out.
You have to find a compromise for your situation, an acceptable level for yourself and them. To do that you have to take back some of your rights and they have to give in to you a little. BE MORE THICK SKIN AND STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS AND FOR YOUR OWN SANITY AND HAPPINESS -
aiyah, no end lah... wake up so early to post.... cannot sleep ah?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:I think we all know that Chin Eng is one of the Moderators of ~Eternal Hope~ a Christian forum (Moderators: sillyme, Chin Eng, ben1xy) and I am brining this up because it is relevant and not meant to insult anyone). I think that it is important to know where CE as Mod of a Christian forum and a religious person is coming from when he asks "what experts"?.
Christians and other religious people are taught to "accept" "believe" and "not criticize". It is "THE WORD of GOD". They are expected to believe that "GOD SAID IT, I BELIEVE IT, AND THAT SETTLES IT."
Google Results 1 - 10 of about 9,960 for "God Said It, I Believe It, That Settles It".
again, mr yap misunderstand - and if he has not misunderstood, please point out clearly where: chin eng says that there is NO NEED FOR EXPERTS.
i ask: please define what "experts" are. my question is based on the understanding that we need to draw the line as to what we are discussing about. if i say, that "experts" are my ancestors, he might say these people has no formal training, so we need to define as to what mr yap thinks are experts.
it must also be understood that andrew pk yap is in the habit of asking too many questions without bothering to answer questions directed to him.
it must also be understood mr yap is a sacked moderator because of his confrontational style and that he had chosen to undermind the main mod, as he is not able to take criticism and WILL edit threads and posts commenting on him. this is pointed out so that all will have no delusion on the propensity of mr yap to be destructive and has no qualms about putting words in your mouth. I am sure I'd not be able to last this long if he is the mod of AA
while the long discourse by mr yap earlier defined clearly what a writer is, it has not defined what an expert is. i feel that mr yap is UNWILLING to define what an expert is because it will put him in the spot - again! a person who writes does not qualify him to be an expert. and an expert may not be a person who writes. such a simple concept, yet ...... hmm......
note the KEYWORD is EXPERT - not WRITER.
while mr yap had taken great pains to point out who chin eng (as if these folks do not know) is, he has also taken great pains to put words in my mouth by making wild assumptions about what i should or should not do.
since when has mr yap be willing to draw clearly what he is talking about, because by doing so, he is unable to wriggle out of his own definition. just look at THIS THREAD - it has gone OUT OF TOPIC from post one as the topic title states very clearly that the discussion is on GOOD PARENTING SKILLS based on THE EASTERN or WESTERN CONCEPT, yet along the line, this is totally discarded.
Why, mr yap? write a book with a title then in the middle of it talk about something else???? yup, you sure is a good writer can't wait for the next book, because it's like a mystery gift, you'd never know what you'd get. -
it should be noted that mr yap can choose to end this by continuing constructively on this thread, based on what he has defined (regardless of the fact that it is different from the title). yet mr yap has chosen to nitpick on folks that he disagree with, dissecting on the points he is not happy with....
yet very strangely, he has written:
The reader must play his part. S/he must read with a critical mind and that is, S/he must consider what is written and the bases (reasons, explanation) behind the concepts, whether they agree with the concepts and techniques taught them in the book.
In that sense there are no "bad" books. You read the book and all the book does is to "give you ideas". You then pick up the "good" ideas and suitable ideas and discard those that are not suitable for you or you are not convinced based on the reasons provided by the writer.
....yet he embarks on a journey where he'd labelled all he disagree with as delusional.....
....i really don't know if the intention of mr yap is to continue to look for pointers in good parenting skills, or that he desires all to lie prostrate at his feet and tell him how learned and clever he is.
....if, mr yap, you have anything constructive to add to your own post by means of real good pointers of parenting, please do so, otherwise, you had destroyed your own thread. -
You mean you really have no idea what an expert is? Look it up in the dictionary bah... or do I have to do that for you? 
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of course I know what an expert is.... all I want to know is YOUR (ANDREWPKYAP'S) definition.... afterall flip flopping is your forte.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap: You mean you really have no idea what an expert is? Look it up in the dictionary bah... or do I have to do that for you?
seems that your definition of experts are people who write books.... again, you refuse to answer questions.... why? because you cannot wriggle out of your own words? -
I think I better tell you
ex·pert (ĕk'spûrt') pronunciation
n.
1. A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject.
2. a. The highest grade that can be achieved in marksmanship.
b. A person who has achieved this grade.
from here: http://www.answers.com/expert&r=67 -
that being the case, why can't a person derive his own expertise by just having common sense without being threatened by the "delusional" remark purely because he did not refer to outside sources?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:I think I better tell you
ex·pert (ĕk'spûrt') pronunciation
n.
1. A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject.
2. a. The highest grade that can be achieved in marksmanship.
b. A person who has achieved this grade.
from here: http://www.answers.com/expert&r=67 -
If you are still blur ... here is another answer:
Expert
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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For the level of mastery of chess, see Chess expert.
An expert (Audio (US) (help·info)) is someone widely recognized as a reliable source of technique or skill whose faculty for judging or deciding rightly, justly, or wisely is accorded authority and status by the public or their peers. An expert, more generally, is a person with extensive knowledge or ability in a particular area of study. Experts are called in for advice on their respective subject, but they do not always agree on the particulars of a field of study. An expert can be, by virtue of training, education, profession, publication or experience, believed to have special knowledge of a subject beyond that of the average person, sufficient that others may officially (and legally) rely upon the individual's opinion. Historically, an expert was referred to as a sage. The individual was usually a profound philosopher distinguished for wisdom and sound judgment.
from : Expert From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -
An expert can be, by virtue of training, education, profession, publication or experience...
nothing in these defintion discount people who develop their own expertise, so you should stop calling people delusional merely because they rely on their experiences. -
*yawnz* someone widely recognized as a reliable source of technique or skill whose faculty for judging or deciding rightly, justly, or wisely is accorded authority and status by the public or their peers.Originally posted by Chin Eng:that being the case, why can't a person derive his own expertise by just having common sense without being threatened by the "delusional" remark purely because he did not refer to outside sources? -
all my friends think that I am a great parent, and many have come to me to ask for advice, does that make me an expert?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:*yawnz* color=darkred]someone widely recognized as a reliable source of technique or skill whose faculty for judging or deciding rightly, justly, or wisely is accorded authority and status by the public or [their peers.[/color]
note that I DO NOT THINK that I am a great parent, I think I am doing OK only.
... and while I do not read any parenting books, I watch and learn from other parents. It needed to be said, that I HAVE NEVER EVER said that people cannot learn from books. -
Originally posted by Chin Eng:all my friends think that I am a great parent, and many have come to me to ask for advice, does that make me an expert?
note that I DO NOT THINK that I am a great parent, I think I am doing OK only.
... and while I do not read any parenting books, I watch and learn from other parents. It needed to be said, that I HAVE NEVER EVER said that people cannot learn from books. -
with all that out of the way.... do you still have anything constructive to discuss?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap: -
*YAWNZ*Originally posted by Chin Eng:so you should stop calling people delusional merely because they rely on their experiences.Originally posted by Chin Eng:
SUBSTANTIATE YOU CLAIMS can't even do that right? -
I don't see this discussion is going anywhere so I will close this thread. Sorry guys!