should she?
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Originally posted by deathmaster:
yes. but isn't it best to bring a child into the world with the best you could offer? why make the child suffer unnecessarily?being a young single mother, the child not only has to endure the shame of being a child born out of wedlock for the rest of his life, the mother most probably is also unable to provide financially for the child.
what more reasons to not go for abortion?
Would ending his life solve the problem? Wouldn't the mother be mocked even more than if she was to give birth to the child? Rest of his life? You sure? Respect is earned, people may gossip about you, but if you are a people of great value, they will show you great respect. Also, I think many people also experienced being gossiped before, so its not a big deal.
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Originally posted by YouDonKnowMe:
Pardon me, I couldn't help asking. In the matter of life and death situation and your wife as well as your unborn child are in danger. Only one may survive. Would you:
1) Save the mother?
or
2) Save the unborn child?
That is where the exception comes in, like I had said earlier. Regarding this question, I think the mother have the rights over her child's life in such a situation and who I were to save would depend on her decision.
Just to clarify things, she had the rights to kill her child because this is to save a life, and that the medical condition is not her fault or for her pleasure sake.
For that post, survive means getting out of trouble.
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
That is where the exception comes in, like I had said earlier. Regarding this question, I think the mother have the rights over her child's life in such a situation and who I were to save would depend on her decision.
Just to clarify things, she had the rights to kill her child because this is to save a life, and that the medical condition is not her fault or for her pleasure sake.
For that post, survive means getting out of trouble.
Now... what if situations in life drive the mother to be suicidal and mental because of the burden of bringing up a child? So essentially, this is also to save a life isn't it not?
Pardon me, I'm not pressing for an absolute right or wrong. I just hope all facets of this problem could be looked at so that we can come out with a more feasible solution.
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
Those people are have a weak mentality and are easily swayed in the face of problem.
The government wants people to have more children IF they could afford it. Apparantly she seems to be financially unstable, thus i don't think she fall into this category. Unwedded moms are being looked down upon is due to our Asian culture and also due to the fact that many are so irresponsible to seek abortion as a way out.
Its not totally her fault. I agree with you. But is she fault-free? Shouldn't a lady of 25 have some form of sexual discipline, like I've mentioned earlier? Being misled shows that she is not mature enough to have a child, yet she had one and planned to have an abortion. Does this shows that she is totally innocent?
I'm not God. However, i judged her to be cheap because she had premarital sex which she can't afford to have, had a baby and planned to abort it. Thats why she is cheap.
Why is it that they are still looked down upon if they bring the child into the world then? Society tends to forget and forgive when a woman aborts, but if she brings the child into the world, society will keep focusing on them and they will be the target of gossips no matter what.
And yes, she might be immature. So do you think she will be ready to handle the child? She might have made that decision based on what she thinks is best for her life. Do you truly know what is best for her? Just because it is your principle to be against abortion doesn't mean that everyone should also uphold the same principle and that not aborting is right for them.
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Originally posted by YouDonKnowMe:
Now... what if situations in life drive the mother to be suicidal and mental because of the burden of bringing up a child? So essentially, this is also to save a life isn't it not?
Pardon me, I'm not pressing for an absolute right or wrong. I just hope all facets of this problem could be looked at so that we can come out with a more feasible solution.
We must first understand that the it is her responsibility to bare her burden. Second, in Sg where there are many organisation providing support, I'm sure that if she has a job, the minimum financing of the child and her would be secured. It wouldn't be a good life with lots of luxuries, but its life nonetheless.
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Originally posted by rainee:
Why is it that they are still looked down upon if they bring the child into the world then? Society tends to forget and forgive when a woman aborts, but if she brings the child into the world, society will keep focusing on them and they will be the target of gossips no matter what.
And yes, she might be immature. So do you think she will be ready to handle the child? She might have made that decision based on what she thinks is best for her life. Do you truly know what is best for her? Just because it is your principle to be against abortion doesn't mean that everyone should also uphold the same principle and that not aborting is right for them.
Society tends to forget and forgive when a woman aborts
Are you sure? Is there any source to prove what you had said?
Do you truly know what is best for her? Just because it is your principle to be against abortion doesn't mean that everyone should also uphold the same principle and that not aborting is right for them.
I may not know whats best for her. But i know that abortion
1) harms the mother physically and emotionally
2) kills the child
3) require a large sum of money which could be channelled to the child
4) would be a target of humiliation
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
Society tends to forget and forgive when a woman aborts
Are you sure? Is there any source to prove what you had said?
Do you truly know what is best for her? Just because it is your principle to be against abortion doesn't mean that everyone should also uphold the same principle and that not aborting is right for them.
I may not know whats best for her. But i know that abortion
1) harms the mother physically and emotionally
2) kills the child
3) require a large sum of money which could be channelled to the child
4) would be a target of humiliation
i don't deny point 1 and 2.point 3? abortion is dirt cheap compared to the cost of raising a child.
and point 4 is invalid. i see more single mother being discriminate against, as compared to women who went thru abortion. it is evident in the papers, and also at work.
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
Society tends to forget and forgive when a woman aborts
Are you sure? Is there any source to prove what you had said?
Do you truly know what is best for her? Just because it is your principle to be against abortion doesn't mean that everyone should also uphold the same principle and that not aborting is right for them.
I may not know whats best for her. But i know that abortion
1) harms the mother physically and emotionally
2) kills the child
3) require a large sum of money which could be channelled to the child
4) would be a target of humiliation
Then are you able to prove that the mother won't be mocked more if she gives birth to the child?
if you want to be really calculative about it, abortion rate nowadays are nothing compared to the sum of money she would need once the child is born. Abortion can be carried out with just $700 in cash, which is not even enough to pay for two months' of the needs and food for the baby. I am not saying that this is why abortion is good for everyone, just want you to see that bringing a baby into the world will definitely cost even more than just the 700 once off.
Do you think the mother won't be harmed emotionally if she carries the child to full term and then give up the child for adoption?
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Originally posted by rainee:
Then are you able to prove that the mother won't be mocked more if she gives birth to the child?
if you want to be really calculative about it, abortion rate nowadays are nothing compared to the sum of money she would need once the child is born. Abortion can be carried out with just $700 in cash, which is not even enough to pay for two months' of the needs and food for the baby. I am not saying that this is why abortion is good for everyone, just want you to see that bringing a baby into the world will definitely cost even more than just the 700 once off.
Do you think the mother won't be harmed emotionally if she carries the child to full term and then give up the child for abortion?
The cost depends actually. The cost for gov hosipitals will range above a thousand dollars. Those below should be from those women's clinic. It will defintely cost more to have a baby, but the price is paid overtime, not one shot. This helps to reduce the mom's financial burden by alot, and add the abortion cost, should be able to hold up quite well.
I don't think the mother would be harmed emotionally if she carries the child to full term. I even knew of a friend who done just that and that had motivated her to work harder to provide a better life for her child.
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Originally posted by deathmaster:
i don't deny point 1 and 2.point 3? abortion is dirt cheap compared to the cost of raising a child.
and point 4 is invalid. i see more single mother being discriminate against, as compared to women who went thru abortion. it is evident in the papers, and also at work.
Thats because those who went through abortions kept mum about their history. Cowards will always be cowards. What can you expect more from them?
I think its is a prouder thing to proclaim that you are a single mom than you had an abortion.
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Originally posted by rainee:
Why is it that they are still looked down upon if they bring the child into the world then? Society tends to forget and forgive when a woman aborts, but if she brings the child into the world, society will keep focusing on them and they will be the target of gossips no matter what.
And yes, she might be immature. So do you think she will be ready to handle the child? She might have made that decision based on what she thinks is best for her life. Do you truly know what is best for her? Just because it is your principle to be against abortion doesn't mean that everyone should also uphold the same principle and that not aborting is right for them.
I understand what rainee is trying to get at. Because when you have a child, he or she is physically present with you (unless you choose to give your child away) and you cannot deny the fact the he/she is your child, whereas a lady who aborts her child is able to choose to divulge this part of her past or not. She could go on a date and progress to even a marriage with another guy without mentioning this part of her past at all, hence she is absolved of being the target of gossips.
Now that all the focus is on the mother, I would like to bring in the issue of the father of the child. Why is he absolved of all responsibilities just because he chooses to walk away from it all? Also, he is not faced with the possibility of being wounded physically through abortion, so why should the social stigma lies mainly on the woman?
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Originally posted by YouDonKnowMe:
I understand what rainee is trying to get at. Because when you have a child, he or she is physically present with you (unless you choose to give your child away) and you cannot deny the fact the he/she is your child, whereas a lady who aborts her child is able to choose to divulge this part of her past or not. She could go on a date and progress to even a marriage with another guy without mentioning this part of her past at all, hence she is absolved of being the target of gossips.
Now that all the focus is on the mother, I would like to bring in the issue of the father of the child. Why is he absolved of all responsibilities just because he chooses to walk away from it all? Also, he is not faced with the possibility of being wounded physically through abortion, so why should the social stigma lies mainly on the woman?
Its not the social stigma. Its just that he isn't worth my time talking about.
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
The cost depends actually. The cost for gov hosipitals will range above a thousand dollars. Those below should be from those women's clinic. It will defintely cost more to have a baby, but the price is paid overtime, not one shot. This helps to reduce the mom's financial burden by alot, and add the abortion cost, should be able to hold up quite well.
I don't think the mother would be harmed emotionally if she carries the child to full term. I even knew of a friend who done just that and that had motivated her to work harder to provide a better life for her child.
Most of the girls I know to have gone through the abortion will just pay around 600 to 700 to finish it off. That money is not even enough to last the baby throughout his first year of life.
Talk is cheap. I think we should empathize more with the current situation of TS' friend rather than calling her cheap and forcing her to give birth to the baby when she is apparently not ready for it. Doesn't mean that it works for others it will also work for her. The cost of having a baby can add up to quite a lot rather fast, within the first month you suddenly realize you need to fork out a lot for diapers, baby clothes, baby cot, strollers and a lot of little things which don't seem to cost much, but when they are added up, they may be a bit hard to be settled by a single mom who is recuperating from child birth.
I am against abortion personally so I am not saying that it is a better option just because it is cheaper and easier. What I am trying to say is that both options also suck for her, and only she knows what is best. It is a tough decision to be made but only she knows what is best for her own life.
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Originally posted by rainee:
Most of the girls I know to have gone through the abortion will just pay around 600 to 700 to finish it off. That money is not even enough to last the baby throughout his first year of life.
Talk is cheap. I think we should empathize more with the current situation of TS' friend rather than calling her cheap and forcing her to give birth to the baby when she is apparently not ready for it. Doesn't mean that it works for others it will also work for her. The cost of having a baby can add up to quite a lot rather fast, within the first month you suddenly realize you need to fork out a lot for diapers, baby clothes, baby cot, strollers and a lot of little things which don't seem to cost much, but when they are added up, they may be a bit hard to be settled by a single mom who is recuperating from child birth.
I am against abortion personally so I am not saying that it is a better option just because it is cheaper and easier. What I am trying to say is that both options also suck for her, and only she knows what is best. It is a tough decision to be made but only she knows what is best for her own life.
I had listed some solution in my previous post. Mostly is the finance part.
Here are some i think could help her save quite abit,
1) use cheaper alternative like sarong instead of baby cot ( to think about it I enjoy sleeping in the sarong than the cot )
2) Use cloth for diaper ( I heard the cost of washing is cheaper )
3) Carry the baby, save on strollers
4) Little luxury could be exempted.
5) Clothes can get from church or other religious intiution. Can buy 5 for 10bucks type also.
6) The baby either send to parents take care or to the PAP childcare. Seems like got some financial assistance there. Mom take full time work.
7) Buy fresh food to cook for the baby instead of canned food. Ikan bilis, minced meat, potato, carrots are quite cheap.
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
I had listed some solution in my previous post. Mostly is the finance part.
Here are some i think could help her save quite abit,
1) use cheaper alternative like sarong instead of baby cot ( to think about it I enjoy sleeping in the sarong than the cot )
2) Use cloth for diaper ( I heard the cost of washing is cheaper )
3) Carry the baby, save on strollers
4) Little luxury could be exempted.
5) Clothes can get from church or other religious intiution. Can buy 5 for 10bucks type also.
6) The baby either send to parents take care or to the PAP childcare. Seems like got some financial assistance there. Mom take full time work.
7) Buy fresh food to cook for the baby instead of canned food. Ikan bilis, minced meat, potato, carrots are quite cheap.
Wa she worked full time come back still must wash diapers and cook food for the baby? When she cook and wash who would look after the kid? If the parents don't want the baby then how? Where would they stay?
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Originally posted by rainee:
Wa she worked full time come back still must wash diapers and cook food for the baby? When she cook and wash who would look after the kid? If the parents don't want the baby then how? Where would they stay?
Lodging can rent room. Cook and wash is the extra burden she has to bear due to her responsibility. Washing and cooking put baby in sarong or nearby in baby chair. Last time when i was young, whenever my grandma cook i would just crawl around the living room. That not a big issue.
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
Lodging can rent room. Cook and wash is the extra burden she has to bear due to her responsibility. Washing and cooking put baby in sarong or nearby in baby chair. Last time when i was young, whenever my grandma cook i would just crawl around the living room. That not a big issue.
I knew of a child who died while her mom was going on doing her stuff in the kitchen. Cause of death: Scalding. Apparently the child has been crawling around, grabbing everything within reach, just as children would normally do and he pulled down a kettle and the boiling water fell all over him. He was a relative of my mother. The mom was devastated and felt guilty and blamed herself for years for not being able to take better care of her son. She was divorced from the husband shortly before the son was born so the mom was a single mom at that time.
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
I had listed some solution in my previous post. Mostly is the finance part.
Here are some i think could help her save quite abit,
1) use cheaper alternative like sarong instead of baby cot ( to think about it I enjoy sleeping in the sarong than the cot )
2) Use cloth for diaper ( I heard the cost of washing is cheaper )
3) Carry the baby, save on strollers
4) Little luxury could be exempted.
5) Clothes can get from church or other religious intiution. Can buy 5 for 10bucks type also.
6) The baby either send to parents take care or to the PAP childcare. Seems like got some financial assistance there. Mom take full time work.
7) Buy fresh food to cook for the baby instead of canned food. Ikan bilis, minced meat, potato, carrots are quite cheap.
Practical solutions
However, I would also like to bring in the aspect of emotional stress this girl might be facing. Whether she decides for abortion or not, I respect her decision, but what I cannot stress enough is the care and concern friends need to shower on her, to let her know that she is not totally alone in this and that there are people out there who are genuinely concerned for her.
If the threadstarter really feels for her and wants to help, then I must say keep in touch with her in spite of whatever that may happen and respond to her asking of help as soon as possible whether you have the solution or not. Chances are, it's more of a cry for a need to be heard and understood rather than anything else. As we know, people tend do "foolish things" in the heat of a moment and where no one gets to hear their pains but are quite okay once they've passed that "moment". I am more worried that she might fence herself in out of fear and shame. Try to get the girl involved socially and open up her options of where to seek help.
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Originally posted by rainee:
I knew of a child who died while her mom was going on doing her stuff in the kitchen. Cause of death: Scalding. Apparently the child has been crawling around, grabbing everything within reach, just as children would normally do and he pulled down a kettle and the boiling water fell all over him. He was a relative of my mother. The mom was devastated and felt guilty and blamed herself for years for not being able to take better care of her son. She was divorced from the husband shortly before the son was born so the mom was a single mom at that time.
Alot of things happen around the whole. I even heard of a toddler drowning himself after he climb into a pail. But this things are in the minority. Last time kampung time where got so much safety measures? Toddler also crawl around.
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
Lodging can rent room. Cook and wash is the extra burden she has to bear due to her responsibility. Washing and cooking put baby in sarong or nearby in baby chair. Last time when i was young, whenever my grandma cook i would just crawl around the living room. That not a big issue.
It's not easy to rent a place with baby. Many tenants do not like to rent rooms to people with kids. I know because I've shifted house 10 times during a certain turbulent 2 years.
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Originally posted by YouDonKnowMe:
Practical solutions
However, I would also like to bring in the aspect of emotional stress this girl might be facing. Whether she decides for abortion or not, I respect her decision, but what I cannot stress enough is the care and concern friends need to shower on her, to let her know that she is not totally alone in this and that there are people out there who are genuinely concerned for her.
If the threadstarter really feels for her and wants to help, then I must say keep in touch with her in spite of whatever that may happen and respond to her asking of help as soon as possible whether you have the solution or not. Chances are, it's more of a cry for a need to be heard and understood rather than anything else. As we know, people tend do "foolish things" in the heat of a moment and where no one gets to hear their pains but are quite okay once they've passed that "moment". I am more worried that she might fence herself in out of fear and shame. Try to get the girl involved socially and open up her options of where to seek help.
Would it be ok if i commend on your post tomorrow? I planned on ending the day on a lighter note. Sorry about it.
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
Alot of things happen around the whole. I even heard of a toddler drowning himself after he climb into a pail. But this things are in the minority. Last time kampung time where got so much safety measures? Toddler also crawl around.
How you know it is in the minority? A lot of such neglect cases that lead to the death of infants have been reported over the years. You can't deny that as a single parent she would have lesser time to spend with the child as she has to multi-task. If he manages to escape all the calamities due to neglect, he would soon come to blame the mom for not spending enough time with him. Is that a good environment for a child to grow up in?
I believe that women should not give birth unless they are truly ready they are able to cope with it. So unless she can convince herself that she is ready to be responsible for another human being, the child is going to end up in a bad state when he grows up and the mother will still feel guilty for not being able to provide adequately for him.
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
Would it be ok if i commend on your post tomorrow? I planned on ending the day on a lighter note. Sorry about it.
That's ok because I guess we're all looking out for solutions to this thread
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Originally posted by rainee:
How you know it is in the minority? A lot of such neglect cases that lead to the death of infants have been reported over the years. You can't deny that as a single parent she would have lesser time to spend with the child as she has to multi-task. If he manages to escape all the calamities due to neglect, he would soon come to blame the mom for not spending enough time with him. Is that a good environment for a child to grow up in?
I believe that women should not give birth unless they are truly ready they are able to cope with it. So unless she can convince herself that she is ready to be responsible for another human being, the child is going to end up in a bad state when he grows up and the mother will still feel guilty for not being able to provide adequately for him.
Tomorrow cutie ;P
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Originally posted by YouDonKnowMe:
That's ok because I guess we're all looking out for solutions to this thread
We can only suggest but in the end the final decison belongs to her. And no matter what it is, I don't think we deserve the right to criticize her for making it. She is the best judge to the situation and she has to be convinced with her own decison. Otherwise she will just live in regrets from then on.