should she?
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
Do you know the harms the op is going to do to her physically and emotionally?
Set this question aside, i don't give a damn about her welfare if she was to abort. But what about the baby? A life is terminated for no valid reason. Its not like she had a medical condition or something. She had not even tried to raise the baby yet. Is it justified?
yes, i know all that crimson.
no matter what path she takes, it would be full of brambles and she would become bruised all over.
It would be up to each of us to judge her actions but even if we do, we should keep these negative opinions to ourselves as she would be bleeding inside her heart badly and she would be hurting inside more than any of us if she indeed go for the abortion.
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Originally posted by KaurexO_o:
yes, i know all that crimson.
no matter what path she takes, it would be full of brambles and she would become bruised all over.
It would be up to each of us to judge her actions but even if we do, we should keep these negative opinions to ourselves as she would be bleeding inside her heart badly and she would be hurting inside more than any of us if she indeed go for the abortion.
Then why should she harm herself more by going for the abortion as you claim?
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
Then why should she harm herself more by going for the abortion as you claim?
Perhaps we shld say tat all individuals have their different take on tolerance or will level. TS fren's level of Will & Tolerance may not be as strong as urs, thus she may not be able to withstand any gossips or tongue waggin abt her being the single mum.I really hope she can change her mind abt abortion, but if she cant...as much as we hated it..let's admit there's nothing much we can do abt it. But at the minimum, please get her to leave tat guy. If not, there might still be a second time of abortion.
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Originally posted by crimsontactics:
Then why should she harm herself more by going for the abortion as you claim?
Both roads ahead would be full of brambles, crimson.If she does give birth to the child, she has to prepare to take into her stride all those snide remarks sent her way being an unwed mother. Bringing a child up isnt all that easy and she won't be able to provide the child with a complete family. She would be hurting inside no matter which path she takes.
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Originally posted by xiiaostarry:
The girl gives birth to the kid..Suffers from depression..She's not in the right mental mind to take care of herself..Moreover for the kid?
"It all bowls down to how the child is being brought up." >> Provided the mum has to have time to guide the child. For this case, she can only leave the child with the nanny (another finance prob also) or leave it in childcare? (yet another financial issue)
Another impt factor to look into will be her kid's emotional feelings.. how will him/her feels when they are older?
Hi there xiiaostarry
All because I went through a lot of hardship alone back then that I feel even more strongly to want to bring up my experience to share here, hoping that it might help your friend. Do read thoroughly what I have posted and the links given as well.
As for tongue-wagging, naturally people will not say it in front of your face, but somehow you hear stuff behind your back (although not clearly) and like what HelloKittyFan said, "Heard is not = felt". I may not hear things clearly, but I certainly felt it most of the time. I still remember when I was carrying my infant in my arms on my way to the nanny's on bus, a lot of people were looking on at me in a sort of queer way. It was my off day from work and I was wearing a babydoll dress. I guess dressing that way doesn't help but why can't I dress the way I like on my only off day when I was working 6 days or more in a week?
I was actually a very shy, reserved and introverted girl back then. Gossips felt were certainly unbearable and it does gets to me sometimes. I cry myself to sleep at times, wanting of emotional support from family but know I would get none. When I don't cry, it's because I felt so tired and slept soon after from work. Understanding from public is impossible as you cannot explain yourself to all of them, so you can only put up with them. At work, I get bullied and got more work as certain devious colleagues know I cannot afford to leave my position and made me work harder. And I am overall a guai guai girl. I don't have tattoo like Maia Lee nor do I curse and swear. But this doesn't seems to help either, the more defenceless I look, the more people tend to take me for granted.
Yes, HelloKittyFan, I was married to the dad, but when you are that young and on your own carrying an infant, the public does not discern much. Also, another thing I want to HIGHLIGHT here especially for TS friend to know is that, it does not mean getting married to the dad of your child would means ease and happiness for your relationship. Neither from what I see from the story here, even with the abortion, in my opinion will she be able to secure a wonderful relationship with such a man, for I see traits in him similar to my ex.
My ex-husband, apart from 2 accounts when I was still pregnant, had never given me any allowance throughout my marriage. And mind you, I had to work to support him and baby instead. I paid for the rent, I paid for the nanny, I paid for my and his transport, food, the pager bills, shoes, clothes, baby stuff, doctors, misc stuff that were NEEDED but which I try to avoid to save cost (think about single mothers each time you make a random purchase e.g. even a light bulb, think about how you had to hold back yourself due to the lack of monies) And when times were hard, I made a decision to go without food so that I can settle some of my bills and to feed my husband and baby. I do not mean that TS friend might need to support her husband like I did, but I certainly saw this selfishness trait in him. I mean I do not know TS friend personally but coming from my own experience to share, I was a very naive girl back then with no helpful nor caring elders to advice. I thought that a relationship was to last forever, and I hope that I would be able to make a difference by working hard on my love. How wrong was I! Coupled with the cunning guy's hint and withdrawal of love at times (yes I call him cunning now. When I was with him, I would have never thought that he might be selfish. In fact, I thought he was rather sensitive and caring for me through all the little gestures he made for me and what he proclaimed ambitiously with a deep, convicting attitude), I now realized that he was stringing me along, playing with my genuine sincere heart to want to make everything ok.
I now realize that he is not worth even a quarter of a dime of my time, and to think that I had lived with this man for several years! The after-effect of realization from my divorce, the emotional abuse (the first reaction to this realization is disbelief), the confusion... I think I might have been better off alone in the first place! As I broke off my marriage, I decided to expand my circle and make more friends, I realize that there are many many better guys out there a zillion times better than him! Though I still have doubts whether a right man would come into my life, at least I've worked on my own issues enough not to label all guys as the same bad thing, compared to what I see of certain bitter women out there.
So my only conclusion is this, some guys are just not worth it, learn how to break away from them! Seek help if you needed and don't be ashamed because the price you have to pay for an unhealthy relationship is much much more! Girl, you are the jewel and let your man earn your trust. If he did not deliver what he said with his actions, chances are all he is good at is just talk! That was a very hard concept for me to grasp back then, because I saw on my ex's face his "pains", his "worries", the determination in his voice. I did not believe then those are sweet nothings as I believe I would be able to see through that. But words without actions (those 1 or 2 actions just to impress and shut your mouth don't count, I've been through that to know) speaks highly of the guy's character than what he proclaims himself to be!
I am more concern actually, about your friend's unhealthy relationship with this guy, to say truth.
As her friend, and I hope there would be more friends out there for her, give her all the support and attention you can, with more understanding to her feelings. All the best to her!
YouDonKnowMe
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Originally posted by RedizAlertz:
Perhaps we shld say tat all individuals have their different take on tolerance or will level. TS fren's level of Will & Tolerance may not be as strong as urs, thus she may not be able to withstand any gossips or tongue waggin abt her being the single mum.I really hope she can change her mind abt abortion, but if she cant...as much as we hated it..let's admit there's nothing much we can do abt it. But at the minimum, please get her to leave tat guy. If not, there might still be a second time of abortion.
Agreed. I don't reckon she should give that guy a chance as he left her all alone when she needed someone by her side the most. His irresponsibility irks me. -
i think if she's not prepared for it, it's best to abort. as cruel as this may be but it's better than not being to provide for the kid for the rest of his/her life. if she's in a 20+, she's either studying or at the start of her career where in both events, she cannot afford the time & energy to look after her kid & the kid will very often be neglected & his future might be affected. However, if the girl's parents are willing to step in & help with this, as well as the montary issues, i'll definitely say to give birth. Do not harm an innocent life because of 2 persons irresponsibility. Besides, the trauma of killing your own flesh & blood is going to haunt you for life.
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Originally posted by KaurexO_o:
Agreed. I don't reckon she should give that guy a chance as he left her all alone when she needed someone by her side the most. His irresponsibility irks me.
Xiiaostarry did mention tat her fren is considering goin back to her bf as he promise he is goin to change for the better. . ... If I were the gal, I'll make sure he suffers.
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Originally posted by RedizAlertz:
Xiiaostarry did mention tat her fren is considering goin back to her bf as he promise he is goin to change for the better. . ... If I were the gal, I'll make sure he suffers.Promises, promises, promises. They are worth nothing to tell the truth. I can promise you a single thing and i can promise you a thousand thing and yet nothing happens as i don't fulfill them. If the guy could hurt her once, he could hurt her another time. He is not worth her time.
If i were the brother of the girl, i'll personally see to the fact that he is chopped into pieces and fed to the dogs. Or maybe i should skin him and pour honey all over his wounds and then drop him off at Puala Ubin for the ants to feast on him. I'm a big-hearted person but i can't seem to find enough reasons for me to forgive him if i were in the girl's shoes.
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Originally posted by honeymouse:
Whether we are for or against abortion, agree or diagree with TS' friend's action, may I please remind everyone of you to be sensitive with your comments towards her.
At the end of the day, we are not the one facing the tricky situation and we are not in the position to judge and to condemn. Please be empathetic and try putting yourself in the person's shoes.
To TS' friend,
Things happened and to err is human. Just learn to accept the mistake, deal with it and learn from it. I wish you well and please take care!
A reminder to everyone again of what I wrote earlier.
To the few people (I believe you know whom I am referring to) who keep making the same judgemental and condemning statement.... you have made your point clear enough and please leave it as it is. You need not to reiterate it over and over again.
Discussion is welcome, however, keep your judgement and condemnation to yourself. Your cooperation is much appreciated.
Cheers!
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Originally posted by honeymouse:
A reminder to everyone again of what I wrote earlier.
To the few people (I believe you know whom I am referring to) who keep making the same judgemental and condemning statement.... you have made your point clear enough and please leave it as it is. You need not to reiterate it over and over again.
Discussion is welcome, however, keep your judgement and condemnation to yourself. Your cooperation is much appreciated.
Cheers!
Understood sir!
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Originally posted by KaurexO_o:
Promises, promises, promises. They are worth nothing to tell the truth. I can promise you a single thing and i can promise you a thousand thing and yet nothing happens as i don't fulfill them. If the guy could hurt her once, he could hurt her another time. He is not worth her time.
I'm a big-hearted person but i can't seem to find enough reasons for me to forgive him if i were in the girl's shoes.
It's always easier to bare your soul to a lover than a friend... and then having disclosed so much, you feel understood and loved.
Perhaps that's why in return, because the guy knows all her flaws yet "accepted" her, the girl felt that she needed to stand by her bf "for better or worse", because she is the "only one" (a concept commonly but subtly directed on the girl to feel) who sees and understands him, and that he deserved a second chance.
In my point of view though, he is someone dangerous! It may be hard to believe that of someone you hold dear, but he is. If I could advise myself back then, I would have told myself to cut off all contact with him even though this seems heartless (but it will not be considered all that I've gone through by now), don't respond to his sms, calls, emails, msn or even if he waited outside the house for you!, and try to surround myself with friends or find other activities to stop thinking about what "could have been", because the only thing that could have been is disaster.
I'm going to repeat what I had posted earlier about a study done:
When you have sex with a man, your body releases oxytocin during orgasm. This "bonding hormone" (also produced when you're nursing your baby and childbirth), coupled with the female hormone estrogen, produces a powerful bonding effect.
It is also difficult, though not impossible, to think logically after having such a bond, and whatsmore being impregnated by your bf.
Friends would need to assure the girl that they accept her for who she is, that she is free to confide in them any worries, and encourage her to open up. However, if I am the girl's friend, I would speak my mind about what I think of the guy while assuring this has nothing to do with disrespecting the girl. But as friend, I would want to list out all the pros and cons for her to consider in a way she might understand. That said, people usually recoil from people whose belief contradict largely to their own, so it would be helpful if this girl can get exposed to a variety of friends to hear generally their opinions altogether. Some friends may be softer in approach, and I believe it is with these softer and stronger approaches together that may be able to open up her own eyes to see things clearly for once herself.
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Originally posted by YouDonKnowMe:
It's always easier to bare your soul to a lover than a friend... and then having disclosed so much, you feel understood and loved.
Perhaps that's why in return, because the guy knows all her flaws yet "accepted" her, the girl felt that she needed to stand by her bf "for better or worse" and that he deserved a second chance.
In my point of view though, he is someone dangerous! It may be hard to believe that of someone you hold dear, but he is. If I could advise myself back then, I would have told myself to cut off all contact with him even though this seems heartless (but it will not be considered all that I've gone through by now), and try to surround myself with friends or find other activities to stop thinking about what "could have been", because the only thing that could have been is disaster.
Friends would need to assure the girl that they accept her for who she is, that she is free to confide in them any worries, and encourage her to open up. However, if I am the girl's friend, I would speak my mind about what I think of the guy while assuring this has nothing to do with disrespecting the girl. But as friend, I would want to list out all the pros and cons for her to consider in a way she might understand. That said, people usually recoil from people whose belief contradict largely to their own, so it would be helpful if this girl can get exposed to a variety of friends to hear generally their opinions altogether. Some friends may be softer in approach, and I believe it is with these softer and stronger approaches together that may be able to open up her own eyes to see things clearly for once herself.
Think that my choice of words might have been a little too strong in my last post XD
I understand what you mean
What's the most important thing for the girl to do now is to think about this whole incident carefully through. Is it really worthwhile to return to the guy after all that he has done to her, leaving her in the lurch when she was in such a terrible state? Would a similar incident repeat itself? She would have to distanced herself from the guy for some time and seriously think about all these and not rush back to the guy's side due to a single moment of impulse. -
Originally posted by xiiaostarry:
She told him that she's pregnant..
The guy told her to go for abortion straight away & she refused..She just told the guy that why should she go through the danger of abortion alone? And, why must she bear the burden alone?
The guy told the girl that his mother will not want the child either..And, he is still struggling to pay for his monthly sch fees..hence..he don't have the cash to get married either..
The girl told the guy that since they created this trouble for themselves..shouldn't they share the responsibility tgt? The guy objected to the idea agressively & even asked the girl if she's going to pay for all those fees (in maintaining the child) if they got married, as he doesn't have any savings at all..
He kept co-ercing the girl to go for abortion in b/w the conversation..
He even told the girl that if she wants to keep the child..so be it..and, that he will give a "monthly maintenance fee" for this child & they shall go their separate ways from there..
The girl requested to meet up with the guy to have a chat...the guy told her : "what's the point of meeting up when he has already made up his mind?..since there's nth to talk abt..we just break up over the phone immediately..."
he even blames the girl for calling him up to tell him about this issue as he was out for a gathering with his friends..
he even said : "that's y..i hate answering calls in the middle of an outing..."
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what kind of f**king attitude is that?..make her pregnant & run away? is that the kind of responsible SG guy that exist nowadays?..should the girl really go for abortion & start afresh? both of them are in their mid 20s..
p.s : is a real incident....
Singapore need better sex education. The teenagers need to be armed with knowledge not PS2 game consoles
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Originally posted by KaurexO_o:
Think that my choice of words might have been a little too strong in my last post XD
I understand what you mean
What's the most important thing for the
girl to do now is to think about this whole incident carefully
through. Is it really worthwhile to return to the guy after all
that he has done to her, leaving her in the lurch when she was in
such a terrible state? Would a similar incident repeat itself?
She would have to distanced herself from the guy for some time and
seriously think about all these and not rush back to the
guy's side due to a single moment of impulse. Would someone compile a list of the general characteristics of a good responsible bf just to stark comparisions?
I'll start with mine:
In my point of view, a good man is someone
- who will stand up for the girl when she needs help the most.
- He will be there to comfort her when she asks for it.
- He will show concrete actions by ACTING on what he says.
- He will be consistent.
- He may have all the reasons not to do something for you but you will see him trying to overcome all the "no"s by working hard just for you.
- He will not make you feel insecure or lost.
P/s: In my point of view, this is regardless of family background, education or past, a good man no matter which walk of life he comes from, must have the above qualities.
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I also agree that the girl should leave the guy. No good will come out of it...
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Originally posted by rainee:
I also agree that the girl should leave the guy. No good will come out of it...
I think at the same time, we will also need to take care of her "loss" after she leaves the guy.
I was talking to a friend several days earlier. He told me the hardest part in breaking up is the loneliness that comes in later. It's a void as if no friends are able to fill.
I guess this is part of life too? I think as much as we dread loneliness, we would need to face it. Facing it would also means facing ourselves, what occupies our mind when we are alone. That's scary. I think the first thing is to correct that tiny voice inside our head (or at least my head back then) that keeps telling us we're no good. Instead, we should focus on whatever little things, no matter how insignificant they may be, that are positive, and remind ourselves we are good and worth it inside our head.
Finding other things to focus on rather than a relationship would be the next step. This may be difficult, rather like a cold turkey period coming off drugs, and at times you may be tempted to go back, but the efforts will pay off in the long run. Try finding other activities to do, do your favorite sports, watch your favorite movies, drama either by yourself or with friends, make new (and good) friends, cry as much as you need, whatever works for you to grieve. This process is very important.
Girl, what do you want for your future? Do you like the state of your current relationship and for many years to come maintain this same situation, or more likely, it could deteriorate into worse further down the years?
Or do you hope for a better future?
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I must be getting ahead of myself
but nevertheless, I would like to present the way I see things and the possibilities in future Another worry could also be that the girl might feel that no good guy would want her after all that she's been through... but from my experience throughout the years (whatsmore it's the 21st century; 2008 man!), if a girl knows how to value herself in spite of what she's gone through, takes good care of herself, she is irresistible to guys no matter what she's been through and yes, even if she's a single mum.
p/s: if the guy don't seem to be attracted to you, there is also a high chance that the particular guy you went out with is not suitable for you anyway! Yes, personal experience
Also, there are a lot of singles these days (it could be that your friends are all attached, but there's certainly lots of singles in this forum
). Do they just plunge into a relationship just because they are single? No! They know that it is hazardous unless they meet the right one. So they wait before getting involved. They may date around more (don't just settle so quickly) or in simpler term, meet a lot of new friends from the opposite sex to expand their circle. Dating is the process which over a period of time you start to know the other party. Studies have shown that people who tie the knot after at least 2 years of dating have lesser occurance of divorce than those under. Knowing someone takes time, and it is over a period of time (no matter how much magic you felt from a person straight away) that you begin to see a pattern forming, be it good or bad.Quoting from an article that I read recently about dating:
I have met men with whom I have felt "magic" on first dates who later revealed: mental illness, attempted suicide, herpes, workaholism, alcoholism, drug addiction, tax evasion and other crimes, additional ex-wives and children, the inability to feel loved because of childhood trauma, and a plethora of other "dealbreakers" which would certainly become even more complicated once one was chemically bonded.
- a reader of Mimi Tanner
Hence to be totally emotionally invested in a new relationship could be dangerous as this blinds us to potential dangerous flaws that might be present in the person which showed up in time to come, because we are too emotionally invested in the relationship to say no (this applies to both men and women).
One might justify like I did back then that my love could have better traits for me to discover in time as well, but there are just some things you just have to run away from as soon as you find out. As he turned out to be, he wasn't even a good father to begin with, regardless of what heavens he's promised.
Regards.
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Originally posted by rainee:
You seem to have forgotten that the girl IS ALREADY pregnant. Does wearing a condom now solve her problem?
aka next time la
u asking the obvious
=_=
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Originally posted by gigabyte14:
aka next time la
u asking the obvious
=_=
The purpose of this thread is to find a solution to her CURRENT situation, not to preach about what she should do next time.
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The Girl is not alone to make the decision but obviously the Boy is out of the picture for now. First she needs to go to somewhere that can give her whatever support she needs, be it to keep the child or to get an abortion. When she gets this support then she can slowly weigh out the options.
- Birth and motherhood
- Birth and adoption
- Abortion
Can't think of another option at the moment.
Next is responsibility. This should be left for a later date to discuss but i can bet you that the Boy will not be able to escape it.
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She sure as hell can't keep the baby. Never mind she suffers in the future, the baby is going to suffer too. People say abortion's inhumane, what abt another 20 years (until the child is grown up and able to support themselves) of hardship for 2 people? and worse, the guy doesn't even give a shit what happens to her.He just wants to get rid of her now that she's preggers, hence the "monthly maintenance fee", which is just plain rubbish because he can't even pay his school fees, what more of this monthly fee?just because the guy wants to up and leave her, doesn't mean she has to go through this whole thing alone and raise the kid.
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Just a question, is she able to go to the court to sue the dad for maintainence?
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yes. can get the real dad to pay maintainance. got similar case before
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Originally posted by skythewood:
yes. can get the real dad to pay maintainance. got similar case before
Then why don't she? I heard that there are CC which offer free consultation for such cases.