Most Singaporeans are religious. This is one of the few places in the world where you would find a Hindu Temple next to a Taoist place of worship. Added to it the not uncommon sight of Taoist devotees crossing over to the Hindu Temple to place a joss-stick or three as a mark of respect for beliefs held by his Hindu Brethren. This is at Middle Road.
We can even show you a location in Changi where a Taoist Temple houses aspects of Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist and Taoist worship all within the same compound. Singaporeans have been know to integrate more than just language.
Yup, now's a crummy time for everyone, whether employed or not. I guess maeren just wants to vent a little.
For those who wish to set up a web-based business, and looking to joint venture with a technology partner. You can send me a PM.
Integration is a very visible aspect of Singapore. So, its not wise to be too sensitive about slang or local cockney associated with words such as Ang Moh, Mat Salleh, Orr Ew, Keling, Gwelingko and such, it is not used with intention to be derogatory. If anything our history has been shown to be one of inclusion. Heck most of the minorities laugh at and even give back to the rest so its been ok all this while.
This is just another integration that has occurred over time. If Integration offends foreigners, (which is unlikely to be the case) then they should consider another part of the world as your new home, because Integration is very much part of our Singapore culture.
We do welcome you and even affectionately refer to them as Foreign Talent. All we ask is that they accept ours and live in harmony and happiness with us, lest we should decide to just refer to you as Foreign.
This is our country, our people and our lifestyle and we make available every resource to them to enjoy all of this with us. But when they are done complaining about our language, or people or culture or our past times, or youth, or workforce or our capabilities. They are encouraged to look at another great Singaporean freedom and that is your right to not be integrated.
Do not be so presumptuous to flippantly offer your unfettered comments about how a Singaporean should react to and deal with his or her current employment position set against the current economic backdrop. Do not preside to know the ground swell beneath your feet. Some of our fellow Singaporean’s may be struggling just to bring rice to the family table to feed their family. And in all probability, that is all they are trying to do.
Do not rub any of my fellow brothers nose in the dirt! Be he Chinese, Indian, Malay, Eurasian or other.
We did not force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the Country and the People that accepted You.
Ok C96223, you’re totally out of the subject… But I’m going to indulge you an answer, as it’s probably too late for the topic after your 4 posts anyway.
I'm very happy being here: i enjoy the food, i enjoy the climate, i enjoy the general kindness of the people and the security the country offers. I really respect Singapore society, which to me look very modern and harmonious when we talk about the different communities who seems to live peacefully all together. It’s really impressive, and lessons should be learned around the word, specially in Europe and USA. I don’t know if it’s working because it’s a micro state or because of something else, but still it’s impressive. As I said I’m new here, and don’t know a lot of people, and I’m maybe wrong about what I've said, and there’s maybe a lot of problem than i think, even if I read Singapore newspaper everyday.
Anyway, what I don’t like, but observe a lot, is that a common answer to foreigner’s criticism about Singapore is “if you don’t like it leave it, you fool!!!” I dare to say it’s an extremist way of reaction. Like every other society, you can’t say that 100% of Singaporean society is good, and nothing could be changed to make it better. That would be very presumptuous, and very stupid. And using derogatory names to refer to other people is one of the things that could be amended. You think calling Caucasian “red haired” or “read haired devil” is ok? But how would you react in those foreigners talent/devils call you “yellow face” of “yellow dwarf” in your face because this is the way they used to do few centuries ago in their culture? I bet you wouldn’t be happy… Because you’re not that small, and your skin is not yellow, actually some women here have a very white skin. And I don’t have red hair. Then why using these kind of name? Do you call black people “nigger”? Because I hope you realize this is exactly the same...
Showing respect to people around you is the basic of living in a community. So show respect to people around you, and they will keep on showing you respect as well.
You said
“Do not be so presumptuous to flippantly offer your unfettered comments about how a Singaporean should react to and deal with his or her current employment position set against the current economic backdrop”
This is totally ridiculous. This is a public forum, and I gave my comment on Maeren public topic. He looks in depression, and I gave him advices, trying to give him ideas that could be helpful for him. This kind of stuff is the very aim of a forum, I was totally in the topic, unlike you. This is solidarity; this is what people of the same community will do for each other. If you choose to take it on the wrong side, it’s your mistake.
Originally posted by maeren:Dear Noodle Eater and everyone else fresh grad, old grad, no grad or even post grad in prog like me at the at an old age of 46.
I have decided one thing, its you who makes the job, not the other way around. We in Singapore have been brought up to only know how to describe ourselves through our jobs. Not many have been able to express themselves beyond this. (mind you this is not a critism, I am just as guilty ok).
Its not ones degree or non degree or job title that makes you a person of character. These are just titles and thats all they are.
I am painfully discovering that I am me, not because of all the other things or titles or because of my job or past jobs or career status. My existance is not because the title on my name card. That is not life ... surely it has to do with the content of ones character.
That has to be the true measure of the individual. Alot of people when they meet someone new for the first time can't help but ask what they do for work. Its such a Singaporean thing ... or at least I am told.
....its just that...its what one does for work...its not the reason for ones existance and if one feels that way please please try not to get too demoralized.
I know I struggle daily...for now I seem ok, but when I awake tomorrow it may all come back again! But it helps to know that some of you in this post have been quite helpful if not by method at least in compassion....its appreciated from your fellow mate who like the rest sometimes don't quite feel like going out for dinner with the family or to meet friends these days. Because there seems nothing to celebrate, this cant be true.
...Thanks mates.
Misery loves company. All human needs to feel that they are not alone in affliction. Recently, I found the Bible, Church and God. I was never that religious before, my family is a casual Buddhist family like most in asia.
I found the Bible to be such an incredible source of wisdom and solace. it's truly for people at wits end.
3Not only so, but we[a] also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
Godspeed to all of us :)
Hey noodel-eater, thanks for the read from the good book.
I can well appreciate the good word. It got me digging around for a King James I have at home too.
I am a Buddhist but that does not mean I cannot see Good. You know I have decided not to respond anymore after seeing alot of careless comments probably coming from people who live with assurance that the months salary will be credited into the account.
Last month we let our domestic helper of 4 years go just so we could make ends meet a little better. I look after the two kids now, wash, iron and cook whilst my wife goes to work and doesn't get home till 10 pm each evening as she works two shifts to take in just a bit more.
I put off the thought of sending my elder for Mandarin Tuition its an expense that can wait. Same go for her speech and drama classes as well. Yesterday evening at Shop n Save was a real shocker for me as I punched in my NETS only to have it rejected and I took the last $50 from my wallet as I lugged home the 10kg sack of rice and 36 pack Pampers my one year old strapped to me and my 5 year old holding my hand as we walked back. Don't get me wrong but I have got very strict with the monthly expenditures lately so that we can wheather the strom.
I went to the income tax department today to ask if there could be any rebates that I might have missed out and also make arrangements for an extended repayment scheme. And also had to make changes to the CPF payouts for our home so that we could maximize our cash in hand.
Budgetting is now going through a new and thougher phase, 6 months on without a job. But I pray each evening before retiring at around 2 am and again at 6 am when I awake for a quite walk.
Thanks once again mate.
maeren,
Can you tell us what is the minimum pay you would except?
The one, which is this pay! or nothing.
Originally posted by MyLord_L:Ok C96223, you’re totally out of the subject… But I’m going to indulge you an answer, as it’s probably too late for the topic after your 4 posts anyway.
I'm very happy being here: i enjoy the food, i enjoy the climate, i enjoy the general kindness of the people and the security the country offers. I really respect Singapore society, which to me look very modern and harmonious when we talk about the different communities who seems to live peacefully all together. It’s really impressive, and lessons should be learned around the word, specially in Europe and USA. I don’t know if it’s working because it’s a micro state or because of something else, but still it’s impressive. As I said I’m new here, and don’t know a lot of people, and I’m maybe wrong about what I've said, and there’s maybe a lot of problem than i think, even if I read Singapore newspaper everyday.
Anyway, what I don’t like, but observe a lot, is that a common answer to foreigner’s criticism about Singapore is “if you don’t like it leave it, you fool!!!” I dare to say it’s an extremist way of reaction. Like every other society, you can’t say that 100% of Singaporean society is good, and nothing could be changed to make it better. That would be very presumptuous, and very stupid. And using derogatory names to refer to other people is one of the things that could be amended. You think calling Caucasian “red haired” or “read haired devil” is ok? But how would you react in those foreigners talent/devils call you “yellow face” of “yellow dwarf” in your face because this is the way they used to do few centuries ago in their culture? I bet you wouldn’t be happy… Because you’re not that small, and your skin is not yellow, actually some women here have a very white skin. And I don’t have red hair. Then why using these kind of name? Do you call black people “nigger”? Because I hope you realize this is exactly the same...
Showing respect to people around you is the basic of living in a community. So show respect to people around you, and they will keep on showing you respect as well.
You said
“Do not be so presumptuous to flippantly offer your unfettered comments about how a Singaporean should react to and deal with his or her current employment position set against the current economic backdrop”
This is totally ridiculous. This is a public forum, and I gave my comment on Maeren public topic. He looks in depression, and I gave him advices, trying to give him ideas that could be helpful for him. This kind of stuff is the very aim of a forum, I was totally in the topic, unlike you. This is solidarity; this is what people of the same community will do for each other. If you choose to take it on the wrong side, it’s your mistake.
since u angmo, me forgiv u.
Originally posted by MyLord_L:Anyway, what I don’t like, but observe a lot, is that a common answer to foreigner’s criticism about Singapore is “if you don’t like it leave it, you fool!!!” I dare to say it’s an extremist way of reaction. Like every other society, you can’t say that 100% of Singaporean society is good, and nothing could be changed to make it better. That would be very presumptuous, and very stupid. And using derogatory names to refer to other people is one of the things that could be amended. You think calling Caucasian “red haired” or “read haired devil” is ok? But how would you react in those foreigners talent/devils call you “yellow face” of “yellow dwarf” in your face because this is the way they used to do few centuries ago in their culture? I bet you wouldn’t be happy… Because you’re not that small, and your skin is not yellow, actually some women here have a very white skin. And I don’t have red hair. Then why using these kind of name? Do you call black people “nigger”? Because I hope you realize this is exactly the same...
i'm not C96223 but i don't see anything wrong with telling people to leave if they don't like it here either? its not a uniquely singaporean thing, i've heard the same from caucasians too. as for the yellow face part, i've gotten some of that too, my relatives were even told to go back to where yellow people should belong amusingly by black people in europe.
while the term "ang mo" itself was derogatory, the usage and meaning nowadays isn't, it's used to imply white people or things associated with them like "angmo pai" for people who are more into western culture. the usage has evolved since "white red haired devils" first appeared in the far east.
and we don't call black people niggers because thats a term you use in the west, not here.
Ang Mo is derogatory? Hmmm... Interesting
Guess it's a matter of getting used to the culture here.
Originally posted by maeren:Hey noodel-eater, thanks for the read from the good book.
I can well appreciate the good word. It got me digging around for a King James I have at home too.
I am a Buddhist but that does not mean I cannot see Good. You know I have decided not to respond anymore after seeing alot of careless comments probably coming from people who live with assurance that the months salary will be credited into the account.
Last month we let our domestic helper of 4 years go just so we could make ends meet a little better. I look after the two kids now, wash, iron and cook whilst my wife goes to work and doesn't get home till 10 pm each evening as she works two shifts to take in just a bit more.
I put off the thought of sending my elder for Mandarin Tuition its an expense that can wait. Same go for her speech and drama classes as well. Yesterday evening at Shop n Save was a real shocker for me as I punched in my NETS only to have it rejected and I took the last $50 from my wallet as I lugged home the 10kg sack of rice and 36 pack Pampers my one year old strapped to me and my 5 year old holding my hand as we walked back. Don't get me wrong but I have got very strict with the monthly expenditures lately so that we can wheather the strom.
I went to the income tax department today to ask if there could be any rebates that I might have missed out and also make arrangements for an extended repayment scheme. And also had to make changes to the CPF payouts for our home so that we could maximize our cash in hand.
Budgetting is now going through a new and thougher phase, 6 months on without a job. But I pray each evening before retiring at around 2 am and again at 6 am when I awake for a quite walk.
Thanks once again mate.
I feel for you, but to let go the domestic helper so late (with almost one month expenses left in bank) is a bit..........
Anyway, I'm also interested to know what mancha is asking.
Sometime, it’s probably right to say it. But I don’t think in our case it’s the best reaction. One should try to think and find if it was legitimate before cutting all debate with “take it or leave it”.
Besides, the fact that people use derogatory words in a casual way doesn’t make them ok. Go back 200 years, Caucasian called Asian with a lot of derogatory words, in a casual way. Was it right? You maybe feel it’s ok to use Ang Moh in everyday life, but if Caucasian find it uncomfortable, why do you go on and say it’s ok?
You see a man jumping from a bridge. Do you follow him?
When in Rome, do as Romans do.
Just like in Singapore, we order packed food in Mandarin, we used "da bao".
But in HK, "da bao" means wrapped dead body up in black bag.
In Singapore, we use the term Ang Mo freely. Nothing wrong.
But if we go to other countries where this term is regarded as derogatory, then it is dumb and offensive if we use it there.
But of course, if pple use it in front of you, and you feel uncomfortable, state it out. There's no obligation for them to stop using it, but most people are cultured enough not to use the term in front of you again.
Then again, if you want to go on and criticise the culture and language of others, you are inviting flames and criticism to yourself. And that's rather dumb in my opinion.
me luv angmos!
nothing wrong with the term ang mo. No singaporean will say it's a derogatory term.
errr.. what is the point of this thread?
the thread starter clearly states that his credentials "are better than most Ang Moh's (by the way I am in that pay bracket where I compete with them head on, GM level and above). "
he is unemployed by will, and it's lame continuing this discussion.
unless he wants to snub the other 99% who (used to =) ) earn less than him.
i never heard of sending over 2000+ applications though, he must be really crappy.
or his job skills are obsolete. tralala.
This is a waste of time.
You’re ignoring what I’m writing or playing dumb, or it’s just a cultural difference. I don’t use derogatory names to talk of people. Specially on the internet, specially when addressing to them directly. You think it’s ok to do it as long as nobody complains, and you won’t probably change your mind. Well it’s too bad. I guess I will just have to live with it. As you said, I’m just a guest here after all, so I have nothing to say, and should leave if I’m not happy. So please go on, Ang Moh me as much as you like, even if you know I don’t like to be refered by a stereotyped hair color. Another cultural difference I guess. In my country hospitality says we should try to be good hosts and please the guest.My mistake. So I’d better go back there and leave a job for a good Singaporean lah!
I won’t argue anymore on this.
Originally posted by MyLord_L:This is a waste of time.
You’re ignoring what I’m writing or playing dumb, or it’s just a cultural difference. I don’t use derogatory names to talk of people. Specially on the internet, specially when addressing to them directly. You think it’s ok to do it as long as nobody complains, and you won’t probably change your mind. Well it’s too bad. I guess I will just have to live with it. As you said, I’m just a guest here after all, so I have nothing to say, and should leave if I’m not happy. So please go on, Ang Moh me as much as you like, even if you know I don’t like to be refered by a stereotyped hair color. Another cultural difference I guess. In my country hospitality says we should try to be good hosts and please the guest.My mistake. So I’d better go back there and leave a job for a good Singaporean lah!
I won’t argue anymore on this.
you r just another chow angmo in town, wat do u expect? do we need to treat u like a king? likewise, are we being treated differently if we r in your country? we only welcome your money n nothing else. if you are here for work, maybe this place is not suitable for u. go home please
Originally posted by MyLord_L:This is a waste of time.
You’re ignoring what I’m writing or playing dumb, or it’s just a cultural difference. I don’t use derogatory names to talk of people. Specially on the internet, specially when addressing to them directly. You think it’s ok to do it as long as nobody complains, and you won’t probably change your mind. Well it’s too bad. I guess I will just have to live with it. As you said, I’m just a guest here after all, so I have nothing to say, and should leave if I’m not happy. So please go on, Ang Moh me as much as you like, even if you know I don’t like to be refered by a stereotyped hair color. Another cultural difference I guess. In my country hospitality says we should try to be good hosts and please the guest.My mistake. So I’d better go back there and leave a job for a good Singaporean lah!
I won’t argue anymore on this.
Hi everyone, I'm a fresh graduate looking for job with little success. Honestly, the feeling sucks but it is comforting to have a common ground where we can all gain strength on. Lets be positive and I'm sure we'll all find what we want in time to come.
To MyLord_L:
Please do not be discourage by the cultural difference. This is something that will take time to change but perharps not at the speed you wish. For example, few years ago if you ask someone to stand at the left side of the escalator for the right side to be mobile, people will think you are crazy. Today it'd be crazy to stand on the right side.
To my fellow Singaporean:
Our language style sometimes makes a conversation easier for us but for someone new it's very hard to understand and they may feel "divided". It's like if we're in some other countries and they call us funny names...it's hard to take right? How about we all forget about things and names that some may or may not understand and stick to the topic that we can all understand and share.
A local chinese boy.
Originally posted by seyKai:
you r just another chow angmo in town, wat do u expect? do we need to treat u like a king? likewise, are we being treated differently if we r in your country? we only welcome your money n nothing else. if you are here for work, maybe this place is not suitable for u. go home please
seyKai, thx for being the perfect example of what i was describing earlier. "like it or leave it" as classic answer to all critics coming from foreigners.
I don't expect you to treat me like a king, but i don't expect you to treat me like a dog either.
I ask you the same question that i asked Eagle: You see a man jumping from a bridge. Do you follow him?
Cofee-Lover: I'm glad to meet someone will a real education.. Thx for the nice words, I'm sure i will fit in eventually, it's not the first time i move in a foreign country. But you escalator example is not that good. I can see everyday people standing on the right side who don't care of people behind. But it's worst in the West so...
Originally posted by MyLord_L:seyKai, thx for being the perfect example of what i was describing earlier. "like it or leave it" as classic answer to all critics coming from foreigners.
I don't expect you to treat me like a king, but i don't expect you to treat me like a dog either.
I ask you the same question that i asked Eagle: You see a man jumping from a bridge. Do you follow him?
Cofee-Lover: I'm glad to meet someone will a real education.. Thx for the nice words, I'm sure i will fit in eventually, it's not the first time i move in a foreign country. But you escalator example is not that good. I can see everyday people standing on the right side who don't care of people behind. But it's worst in the West so...
there'll always be bad people who are unhappy with their own lives, and therefore they want to bring other people down. just ignore those bad people, and you'll be alright.
Originally posted by MyLord_L:seyKai, thx for being the perfect example of what i was describing earlier. "like it or leave it" as classic answer to all critics coming from foreigners.
I don't expect you to treat me like a king, but i don't expect you to treat me like a dog either.
I ask you the same question that i asked Eagle: You see a man jumping from a bridge. Do you follow him?
Cofee-Lover: I'm glad to meet someone will a real education.. Thx for the nice words, I'm sure i will fit in eventually, it's not the first time i move in a foreign country. But you escalator example is not that good. I can see everyday people standing on the right side who don't care of people behind. But it's worst in the West so...
i dun think any1 here treat u like a dog, only yr boss can do that
its yr sapience whether to follow that man who jumped from a bridge.
i used angomo in my office b4 n tends to do more complaining than the works
u r nothing special so pls dun ask 4 more
Originally posted by MyLord_L:This is a waste of time.
You’re ignoring what I’m writing or playing dumb, or it’s just a cultural difference. I don’t use derogatory names to talk of people. Specially on the internet, specially when addressing to them directly. You think it’s ok to do it as long as nobody complains, and you won’t probably change your mind. Well it’s too bad. I guess I will just have to live with it. As you said, I’m just a guest here after all, so I have nothing to say, and should leave if I’m not happy. So please go on, Ang Moh me as much as you like, even if you know I don’t like to be refered by a stereotyped hair color. Another cultural difference I guess. In my country hospitality says we should try to be good hosts and please the guest.My mistake. So I’d better go back there and leave a job for a good Singaporean lah!
thing is most people here don't find it derogatory, you get that problem only when an angmo comes here. we don't think its ok as long as no one complains, we think its ok even if someone complains. we just stop saying it in front of you to avoid offending you and think you're a dick at the same time if you're the one to claim offence.
culturally singaporeans do believe in being good hosts to guests but there isn't a point in claiming we should be good hosts to our "guests" since guest means invited and the ones complaining probably aren't the ones who did the inviting and are unlikely to think of you as a "guest"