Nudity on our fair shores
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*profers hand*Originally posted by www:hehe.. appreciate rp's effort to be a peacemaker.
anyway, i apologise if i was too offensive, which i believe i was, as a countering measure.
this argument doesnt seems to get us anywhere and wont be fruitful at this pace and progress.
so let's put it to a rest.
my apology once again. hehe.
k so it shall be... -
Think u meant, "Proffers"
RPOriginally posted by Farmer Brown:*profers hand*
k so it shall be... -
oops... yea proffers.. haha
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nudity? is it a moral issue or not?
frankly, i could do without people wanting to flash their dicks and boobs in my face. but how should individual liberty be balanced with offensive behavior?
individual liberty is of course refering to the right to want to bear his or her body believing that yes, i have the right to showing off my body. do not quite understand why people would want to degenerate to apes of the past behavior but this does not of course has anything to do with individual liberty
offensive behavior is pretty hard to define as it is an individual reaction based on one's cultural and religious and moral values. hence, the huge difficulty.
to many horny males out there, baring boobs are great. to feminist, it could just mean that the female body is for commercial use again. to the "i tnk i am a liberal person and everyone should bear their body", they dun care less. but what i think everyone seems to forget is the little children out there. how are parents (if they have enough time in the first place) going to teach their kids about respect for their bodies, how bodies are not merely commercial objects, dignity of the body so on and so forth. imagine kids watching on as countless perverts scrutinize naked suntannign bodies! what would the kid make of it?
therefore, the limits on nudity still should remains. cause it still offends public sentimetns. at the very least, it offends mine.
ps: janet jackson totally degraded the dignity of the body by using sex to sell. in front of a family based tv audience. its is a combination of nudity that offends as well as disgust that she has to resort to sex to save her career. -
well done!! well said.. brings out the best in the arguments for and against nudity.Originally posted by unwantedgal:nudity? is it a moral issue or not?
frankly, i could do without people wanting to flash their dicks and boobs in my face. but how should individual liberty be balanced with offensive behavior?
individual liberty is of course refering to the right to want to bear his or her body believing that yes, i have the right to showing off my body. do not quite understand why people would want to degenerate to apes of the past behavior but this does not of course has anything to do with individual liberty
offensive behavior is pretty hard to define as it is an individual reaction based on one's cultural and religious and moral values. hence, the huge difficulty.
to many horny males out there, baring boobs are great. to feminist, it could just mean that the female body is for commercial use again. to the "i tnk i am a liberal person and everyone should bear their body", they dun care less. but what i think everyone seems to forget is the little children out there. how are parents (if they have enough time in the first place) going to teach their kids about respect for their bodies, how bodies are not merely commercial objects, dignity of the body so on and so forth. imagine kids watching on as countless perverts scrutinize naked suntannign bodies! what would the kid make of it?
therefore, the limits on nudity still should remains. cause it still offends public sentimetns. at the very least, it offends mine.
ps: janet jackson totally degraded the dignity of the body by using sex to sell. in front of a family based tv audience. its is a combination of nudity that offends as well as disgust that she has to resort to sex to save her career. -
U shd see wat Kylie Minogue did in the UK to increase the hype when "Fever" was released : )
Janet Jackson, was actually TAME by comparison. She only exposed a breast.
Kylie Minogue simulated SEX SCENES on stage. Yet, there was No nudity @ all.
So which is worse? : ) Juz somethg to ponder over.
Juz adding on to wat u sez'd, Unwantedgal, I fully agree wif ur views.
RPOriginally posted by unwantedgal:nudity? is it a moral issue or not?
frankly, i could do without people wanting to flash their dicks and boobs in my face. but how should individual liberty be balanced with offensive behavior?
individual liberty is of course refering to the right to want to bear his or her body believing that yes, i have the right to showing off my body. do not quite understand why people would want to degenerate to apes of the past behavior but this does not of course has anything to do with individual liberty
offensive behavior is pretty hard to define as it is an individual reaction based on one's cultural and religious and moral values. hence, the huge difficulty.
to many horny males out there, baring boobs are great. to feminist, it could just mean that the female body is for commercial use again. to the "i tnk i am a liberal person and everyone should bear their body", they dun care less. but what i think everyone seems to forget is the little children out there. how are parents (if they have enough time in the first place) going to teach their kids about respect for their bodies, how bodies are not merely commercial objects, dignity of the body so on and so forth. imagine kids watching on as countless perverts scrutinize naked suntannign bodies! what would the kid make of it?
therefore, the limits on nudity still should remains. cause it still offends public sentimetns. at the very least, it offends mine.
ps: janet jackson totally degraded the dignity of the body by using sex to sell. in front of a family based tv audience. its is a combination of nudity that offends as well as disgust that she has to resort to sex to save her career. -
But things ain't usually that straightforward. 1st expectation we get is that we'll probably be seeing Ah Peks there... And those ah peks have got children, got wife... Even if they're agreeable, what would those around them say? Such are examples of 'social problems'.... Then the foreign workers who walk around just to bio the naked babes... The locals would start to complain about them... To think who started off such an avenue in the 1st place? But of course, people's intention for starting off such a place or beach would probably not be solely for the hungry eyes of others... But talk about 'intentions', what's to stop them? Would that promote the increase of crime rates? Molest? Rapes? Social problems...Originally posted by Farmer Brown:first of all. obviously u dun understand the notion of this thread. Janet Jackson's stunt was deplored and condemned NOT BECAUSE SHE BARED HER BOOB. but rather the low level to which she stooped to attract attention to her already failing career.
it is NOT common sense that one should possess blahblahblah whatever u said as a result of Janet's stunt.
i don't think u understand at all what we are all talking about. even sgboy does.. u should be ashamed of yourself. IF the government dedicates a secluded beach for nude sunbathers, people who feel offended by nudity would not go there in the first place. If such people actually visit this nude beach, then they have nothing to complain about as they were told before hand it is a nude beach and should expect nudity therefore havin no reason to feel offended.
but sadly i have to agree with you there is no point trying to convince you as you don't really read into things. TSK ppl gettin offended by Janet's stunt just because they saw her boob. its people like you that would try to sue her if possible.
Some things might or might not push for more effects... It might be so directly doing so... It might take time.. But... Who can know for sure? -
Discussion don't always have to end with 2 or more parties sharing the same conclusions or grounds... In fact, alot of times they don't... People should understand that when they 1st came together for a discussion, they have different views and thoughts... Things might change a little after the discussion, if views and thoughts are still different... It shouldn't come as a surprise...Originally posted by RainbowPrincess:So perhaps the both of u cld move onto COMMON grd?
Insisting on ur opinions, when both r actually on different plains isn't gonna solve anythg...
RP -
i did think of that before..here's my solution. in fact. i already mentioned the solution before, its double edged u see:Originally posted by Devil1976:But things ain't usually that straightforward. 1st expectation we get is that we'll probably be seeing Ah Peks there... And those ah peks have got children, got wife... Even if they're agreeable, what would those around them say? Such are examples of 'social problems'.... Then the foreign workers who walk around just to bio the naked babes... The locals would start to complain about them... To think who started off such an avenue in the 1st place? But of course, people's intention for starting off such a place or beach would probably not be solely for the hungry eyes of others... But talk about 'intentions', what's to stop them? Would that promote the increase of crime rates? Molest? Rapes? Social problems...
Some things might or might not push for more effects... It might be so directly doing so... It might take time.. But... Who can know for sure?
OPEN A NUDIST BEACH
see.. if people are willing to bare all, then they wouldn't mind if people are staring be it the young cute caucasian or the old cheekopek over there. besides if it was a nudist beach, either u go there to really be nude or to bio. the difference is very obvious as those who go to bio are really there to bio and not really ready to go out in the buff.
about the other social problems that might arise, yea. its true. it might raise the prob of sex related crimes to increase and i have no argument against it.
for all of u who think i'm totally for this idea of a nude beach or something like that, u've got it wrong. the purpose of starting this thread is to generate interest as well as provoke thoughts on this topic. as we can all see, its so far been a reasonably mature thread with minimal mud slinging.
anyway, here's my take on it. i dun forsee the govt ever opening a nude beach as it has no economical benefits. How would a nude beach actually benefit the state, well firstly as a tourist attraction. Promoting a liberal and open image of singapore to the world, showing the world that our government is liberal and willing to accept ideas.
but the downside of this argument outweighs the plusses of this argument. as devil has mentioned, socially we would present more problems to the people in singapore. opening the minds of the youth is like opening pandora's box, encouraging them to explore their sexuality, though it is already happening, this mindset would definitely become more widespread and we would have many more young couples or single teenaged moms or higher abortion rates blah blah blah. (hey maybe that's the solution to encourage singaporeans to make babies hahahaha)
any more comments? -
imho.. i dont really like flashers.
Even if its their own bodies, they shouldn't flaunt
it around (without clothes on i mean)...
its just...wrong..
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Okie, juz my 2 cents' worth.
Opening up of a nudist beach MAY present problems like increased procreation/copulation, but altho it might lead to increased #s of single mums, our system actually has in a place a gd way to counter tt problem -- lack of financial help or welfare pkgs for single mums.
In the United States & Australia, there is the dole/welfare sys, so single mums dun need to work, & can simply collect a cheque for their daily expenses. In SG, single mums rely on family aid.
Wat I wld like to see, tho, is increased education abt sex & the repercussions of casual sex or sex between 2 pple who're Not mature enuff to think of the consequences. Sex, is still v. much taboo in SG, as is nudity.
Perhaps wif better sex edu programmes, the opening of a nudist beach wldn't generate so much hoohaa. Humans r visual creatures (guys more so than girls), a look wldn't hurt. Wat wld hurt is the action taken AFTER looking. And tt's where sex edu wld come in handy...
RPOriginally posted by Farmer Brown:i did think of that before..here's my solution. in fact. i already mentioned the solution before, its double edged u see:
OPEN A NUDIST BEACH
see.. if people are willing to bare all, then they wouldn't mind if people are staring be it the young cute caucasian or the old cheekopek over there. besides if it was a nudist beach, either u go there to really be nude or to bio. the difference is very obvious as those who go to bio are really there to bio and not really ready to go out in the buff.
about the other social problems that might arise, yea. its true. it might raise the prob of sex related crimes to increase and i have no argument against it.
for all of u who think i'm totally for this idea of a nude beach or something like that, u've got it wrong. the purpose of starting this thread is to generate interest as well as provoke thoughts on this topic. as we can all see, its so far been a reasonably mature thread with minimal mud slinging.
anyway, here's my take on it. i dun forsee the govt ever opening a nude beach as it has no economical benefits. How would a nude beach actually benefit the state, well firstly as a tourist attraction. Promoting a liberal and open image of singapore to the world, showing the world that our government is liberal and willing to accept ideas.
but the downside of this argument outweighs the plusses of this argument. as devil has mentioned, socially we would present more problems to the people in singapore. opening the minds of the youth is like opening pandora's box, encouraging them to explore their sexuality, though it is already happening, this mindset would definitely become more widespread and we would have many more young couples or single teenaged moms or higher abortion rates blah blah blah. (hey maybe that's the solution to encourage singaporeans to make babies hahahaha)
any more comments? -
hmm after seeing non-modelesque bodies on parade at our very own nudist beach, most locals will quit being so curious abt nudity! Good idea to discourage kids from experimenting hee hee
.. think saggy things and wrinkly protuberences ... rofl!!
TX -
I agree wif wat u sez'd, but juz wanna discuss 1 pt...
If those naked babes wanna strip down naked, then they shd've No problem being byo'd, rite?
Personally, I dun think it's abt whether SGreans r ready to accept nudity. It's whether they wanna accept it or Not, there's No right & No wrong.
Caucasians r more exhibitionist, perhaps, & they haf No problem wif sexuality, & the flaunting of sexuality. Asians, r more reserved, they're more modest, altho nowadays we see SGrean girls strutting down the street in more revealing clothing than sez, 10 yrs back. I remember when I was 16, we were in tees, @ most tanks & spaghetti straps. Now, teens r sauntering down O'Shard in tube tops & halternecks.
But No matter wat, I think the SGrean babes may still choose NOT to strip down naked in front of pple. Bikinis r 1 thg, nudity is another. I haf No problem wif looking @ naked pple, but I wldn't strip down to Nothg, simply cosh I dowan to.
Mebbi the qn doesn't boil down to whether SGreans r ready, but r we exhibitionists, do we mind flaunting our sexuality? There brings in www's post abt culture. It is linked to the mindset of Asians & Caucasians. I noe the pple in Hawaii wldn't think of walking down without a bra on the streets, even tho this is still the United States.
Juz as Caucasians r open abt the flaunting of naked bodies & sexuality, so r Asians reserved on this subj. It's perhaps, more an issue of preferance? : )
Wat I noe is, after living in Melb & Hawaii, I've come to respect & love the Asian mentality. A naked body is beautiful, but I'd rather let someone special appreciate mine : )
RPOriginally posted by Devil1976:But things ain't usually that straightforward. 1st expectation we get is that we'll probably be seeing Ah Peks there... And those ah peks have got children, got wife... Even if they're agreeable, what would those around them say? Such are examples of 'social problems'.... Then the foreign workers who walk around just to bio the naked babes... The locals would start to complain about them... To think who started off such an avenue in the 1st place? But of course, people's intention for starting off such a place or beach would probably not be solely for the hungry eyes of others... But talk about 'intentions', what's to stop them? Would that promote the increase of crime rates? Molest? Rapes? Social problems...
Some things might or might not push for more effects... It might be so directly doing so... It might take time.. But... Who can know for sure? -
Originally posted by Farmer Brown:
i did think of that before..here's my solution. in fact. i already mentioned the solution before, its double edged u see:
OPEN A NUDIST BEACH
see.. if people are willing to bare all, then they wouldn't mind if people are staring be it the young cute caucasian or the old cheekopek over there. besides if it was a nudist beach, either u go there to really be nude or to bio. the difference is very obvious as those who go to bio are really there to bio and not really ready to go out in the buff.
I've come to realise that this is the general belief, but somehow I have to add that this might not always be the true case. Commonly, there're some people who show off their body just to get the attention of certain group(s) of people... (eg. pretty girls, hunks, rich & wealthy...) Just like if a guy is there to show off his muscular body on the beach doesn't certainly mean he would welcome the hungry eyes of gays too?
anyway, here's my take on it. i dun forsee the govt ever opening a nude beach as it has no economical benefits.
This I would very much agree....
How would a nude beach actually benefit the state, well firstly as a tourist attraction. Promoting a liberal and open image of singapore to the world, showing the world that our government is liberal and willing to accept ideas.
This ain't much of a problem. I think Singapore being a more 'kiasu' country and also ASIAN country definitely would have to be reminded of its 'position' from time to time as highlighted by www. As much as you like a 'break through', sometimes it's just difficult for you to dismiss everything and pretend that they're not there.
I believe though the thought of 'liberating' Singapore and attracting tourist might be attractive to the government... Our government is still much on the 'conservative' side on certain things... (which though some might disagree, I personally finds that it might not be such a bad thing?) Our government is more on the 'assurative' side... Usually when they do things, they want it to WORK... Or if not, at least they have nothing much to loose.. Singapore is a SMALL country... Any (small?) 'mistake' made might just as easily SNOWBALLED into a BIG one.... Hence the need for 'conservative moves'....
And talking about being an Asian country... Whatever we do would have effects on how we'll be judged, ie... Plus and minus I should say... Much factors to be throughly discussed here...
but the downside of this argument outweighs the plusses of this argument. as devil has mentioned, socially we would present more problems to the people in singapore. opening the minds of the youth is like opening pandora's box, encouraging them to explore their sexuality, though it is already happening, this mindset would definitely become more widespread and we would have many more young couples or single teenaged moms or higher abortion rates blah blah blah. (hey maybe that's the solution to encourage singaporeans to make babies hahahaha)
Look at the case of Africa? Singapore government wants 'quality' too... Not just unwanted babies on the streets...?
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well done all of u... very very mature and interesting thoughts.,, good points.. no argument.
just checking. INCLUDING GUYS AH, how many would actually strip down to the buff to do sun tanning be it in private or public(if it was allowed of course) -
Nah uh, Not me It has to be someone special who'll get to see me
RPOriginally posted by Farmer Brown:well done all of u... very very mature and interesting thoughts.,, good points.. no argument.
just checking. INCLUDING GUYS AH, how many would actually strip down to the buff to do sun tanning be it in private or public(if it was allowed of course) -
agree...Originally posted by www:you might wanna review your points.
ever consider about flashers (those perverts who go around flashing their dicks)?
its their bodies, but does that mean they can go around showing their private parts to everyone?
i personally aint too offended by what's reported in the paper, but i thought tourist should respect the country's norm and culture, not to mention the laws.
there are still conservative people and children living in this country. -
It's about time to change that
its their bodies, but does that mean they can go around showing their private parts to everyone?
there are still conservative people and children living in this country. [/b]
whip out those funbags girlie!
whooooohooooooo!
i love boobs -
Don't ahve the interest in that. Don't see the need to do so?Originally posted by Farmer Brown:well done all of u... very very mature and interesting thoughts.,, good points.. no argument.
just checking. INCLUDING GUYS AH, how many would actually strip down to the buff to do sun tanning be it in private or public(if it was allowed of course)