Why so many K230UB's in Singapore today?
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Originally posted by The Kiwi Bus Fan:
Scanias tend to vibrate overtime, look at the N113s of history, the L113CRLs of SMRT and now the K230UBs.. The Scania K230UB had steps leading to the rear, inconvenient as people may lose their step. This design has been banned for public buses by LTA and only the arrangement of the MANs or the Citaros are allowed. "Citaros have bad design at the rear, only one line of standing passenge is possible." This is the only possible design possible with operaters now, unless they come out with another innovative design. And sure, Scania engines are long lasting, but use your bloody sense you want a massive rocking chair or a comfortable bus? The A22s and the Citaro have almost no vibrations when idle. Look at the K230UBs after just 5 years, the Euro Vs just 2 years..
Not all KUBs have massive vibrations ok? Most have been fixed by now! Got Scania good enough already. Give u China buses then you know!
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Originally posted by sexy girls:
Never been on a chionging Citaro but have experience chionging KUBs several times. They aren’t slow actually, they can be real fast too. It all depends on the driver.
Nah. Hard on acceleration doesn't really make much difference, just the ZF howling higher and stuff. Still, a "chionging" KUB should be roughly the average acceleration of a lightly peddled Wright B9TL? Btw, WEG2 B9TLs can really chiong, one BC on 17 really flew just now. Even drag-raced with a van and won LOL.
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Originally posted by Gus.chong e:
Not all KUBs have massive vibrations ok? Most have been fixed by now! Got Scania good enough already. Give u China buses then you know!
Not true anyway. See what happens in 10-15 years. And 40% of KUBs have vibrations. Specifying most as 60% is frankly.. ._. and China buses are just bodywork crap, some use Cummins engines which are not bad , not vibrating. And if you say Scania good give u Japanese buses then you know what's good!
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I doubt you have really tried the KUBs.
I have had great rides on just about every type including the "slow" MKIII.
It really depends a lot on the BC's mood.
My favourite type that has the best balance in the speed-limited context unfortunately has only 15 buses. You can go figure which one.
The KUB is very hard to tame with rough gear shifts, unlike the Citaro.
But I have little doubt that the KUB has got better aircon and lay-out.
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Originally posted by The Kiwi Bus Fan:
Not true anyway. See what happens in 10-15 years. And 40% of KUBs have vibrations. Specifying most as 60% is frankly.. ._. and China buses are just bodywork crap, some use Cummins engines which are not bad , not vibrating. And if you say Scania good give u Japanese buses then you know what's good!
I was only joking when I said I want MIC buses.
You can go try the brand-new NUS Sunlong and you'll understand what I mean. Far from being just having crappy suspension and stuff, I've had the bus failing to start at least twice already. Quite a disaster when you consider how narrow and sloppy the place is.
There must be a reason also why SMRT pass up on the Yutong. Which surprised me. I thought they would have "cut-cost". I have taken 135Y before. It was far from impressive at all. Terrible performance, terrible vibrations....and worst of all, terrible aircon.
And sorry.
Cummins engine can be rather crappy. At least what we have seen so far. So far, the Volvo and Merc engines have been proven to be amongst the best choice.
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To me.... no difference. Both are buses that bring me to my destination.
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There is a difference when it comes to aircon.
I'm sure you will agree with me.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
I doubt you have really tried the KUBs.
I have had great rides on just about every type including the "slow" MKIII.
It really depends a lot on the BC's mood.
My favourite type that has the best balance in the speed-limited context unfortunately has only 15 buses. You can go figure which one.
The KUB is very hard to tame with rough gear shifts, unlike the Citaro.
But I have little doubt that the KUB has got better aircon and lay-out.
No one has never not tried a KUB. I live in the east so it's f inevitable. And ello, Mkiii is 1993. Now is 2012 you still expect 1993 standard? Look at SMRT and SBST realising they need powerful buses or else, which is partly why SBST switched to Citaro instead. And the layout of the KUB makes it hard for certain people to climb up stairs at the back. And for tall people risk banging their heads. At least OCs have higher height. And KUB has rough shifts cause of low power, causing bus to jerk. OC500LE uses ZF 6HP (592 instead) but has a smooth gearshift. Care to explain? And Citaro a/c blame EvoBus for defect, though I suspect 2011 Citaro will have a big improvement. ._.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
I was only joking when I said I want MIC buses.
You can go try the brand-new NUS Sunlong and you'll understand what I mean. Far from being just having crappy suspension and stuff, I've had the bus failing to start at least twice already. Quite a disaster when you consider how narrow and sloppy the place is.
There must be a reason also why SMRT pass up on the Yutong. Which surprised me. I thought they would have "cut-cost". I have taken 135Y before. It was far from impressive at all. Terrible performance, terrible vibrations....and worst of all, terrible aircon.
And sorry.
Cummins engine can be rather crappy. At least what we have seen so far. So far, the Volvo and Merc engines have been proven to be amongst the best choice.
That's their fault for choosing MIC. Cause it's cheap only. Look at it's toy design. China buses entirely made by them, apart from transmission and occasional the engine. Can't expect much. The only good thing of the Yutong is frankly the gearbox. Which is ZF 6HP602C. Cummins can be quite reliable, though Scanias are ironicaly the ones which last longest before overhaul is needed.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
There is a difference when it comes to aircon.
I'm sure you will agree with me.
Just tahan for a while lor.... lol
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Originally posted by The Kiwi Bus Fan:
No one has never not tried a KUB. I live in the east so it's f inevitable. And ello, Mkiii is 1993. Now is 2012 you still expect 1993 standard? Look at SMRT and SBST realising they need powerful buses or else, which is partly why SBST switched to Citaro instead. And the layout of the KUB makes it hard for certain people to climb up stairs at the back. And for tall people risk banging their heads. At least OCs have higher height. And KUB has rough shifts cause of low power, causing bus to jerk. OC500LE uses ZF 6HP (592 instead) but has a smooth gearshift. Care to explain? And Citaro a/c blame EvoBus for defect, though I suspect 2011 Citaro will have a big improvement. ._.
SBST has never really considered power in their purchase of buses. Its still the same now. Its not like we need the power. The K230UB has little problem going up and down slopes. Even the VO3X can do it without burning to crisp. Having power like the Citaro helps in giving the BC a less stressful drive.
I dont understand what you mean. I brought in the MKIII to illustrate my point that all types can go fast.....till 60km/h. Are you another gussie?
I have taken the Citaro ZF6 once...and I must say that it has got so much smoother gear changes. Smoother than the B9TL, which is not particularly smooth also. I loved it. But again, the aircon was a let-down.
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Originally posted by The Kiwi Bus Fan:
That's their fault for choosing MIC. Cause it's cheap only. Look at it's toy design. China buses entirely made by them, apart from transmission and occasional the engine. Can't expect much. The only good thing of the Yutong is frankly the gearbox. Which is ZF 6HP602C. Cummins can be quite reliable, though Scanias are ironicaly the ones which last longest before overhaul is needed.
You must be joking....
The 113s have the worst depreciation record when you compare against contemporary Volvo and Merc we had.
And Cummins have had their fair share of engine fires. Remember who started the AMDEP fire? How many Lances have burned down? And the soot! Unbelievable stuff.
And what's so good about ZF? ZF has the longest list of problems I have encountered. Wait a few more years and you'll see.
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Whether you are Citaro lover and hater or KUB lover and hater, face the fact, It has stopped purchase of low entry buses and only allow full low floor buses in future. Don't be surprised that SBST will get Citaro 3 in future and more MAN A22s for SMRT.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
SBST has never really considered power in their purchase of buses. Its still the same now. Its not like we need the power. The K230UB has little problem going up and down slopes. Even the VO3X can do it without burning to crisp. Having power like the Citaro helps in giving the BC a less stressful drive.
I dont understand what you mean. I brought in the MKIII to illustrate my point that all types can go fast.....till 60km/h. Are you another gussie?
I have taken the Citaro ZF6 once...and I must say that it has got so much smoother gear changes. Smoother than the B9TL, which is not particularly smooth also. I loved it. But again, the aircon was a let-down.
Didn't you just undermine your own statement?
They say SBST did not go for power, yet you're saying SBST is giving BCs a less stressful drive by buying powerful buses. And the ride at the front of the KUB is..stressless, very lax imo. MkIIIs are more powerful than KUBs. Whatcha saying sia. MkIIIs have no limiters somemore. Some KUBs on expressway keep switching from 5th to 6th constantly, and at 5th make very high ZF howl. Very headache ride.
Citaro ZF of course, so much power. And the CDGE B9TL has maintainance issues, power a big issue. Though the Voith-ed ones are quite smooth. As for Wrights only batch 1 has ZF6HP1200, 2 and 3 have Voith DIWA. If at bottom deck gives u impression tt you're on a SD
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More narrow aisles.
I've heard pax calling the Citaro interior "stupid".
I wouldn't go as far as to say that, but I understand their frustrations.
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Originally posted by SBS 1000U:
Whether you are Citaro lover and hater or KUB lover and hater, face the fact, It has stopped purchase of low entry buses and only allow full low floor buses in future. Don't be surprised that SBST will get Citaro 3 in future and more MAN A22s for SMRT.
gd (: another "powerful era" -
Originally posted by SBS2601D:
More narrow aisles.
I've heard pax calling the Citaro interior "stupid".
I wouldn't go as far as to say that, but I understand their frustrations.
Still, even more people complained of KUB and falling down and stuff. They should be happy already. And i've seen countless people attempting adjust Citaro a/c ducts to find none. LOL
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Originally posted by The Kiwi Bus Fan:
Didn't you just undermine your own statement?
They say SBST did not go for power, yet
you're saying SBST is giving BCs a less stressful drive by buying
powerful buses. And the ride at the front of the KUB
is..stressless, very lax imo. MkIIIs are more powerful than KUBs. Whatcha saying sia. MkIIIs have no limiters somemore. Some KUBs on expressway keep switching from 5th to 6th constantly, and at 5th make very high ZF howl. Very headache ride.
Citaro ZF of course, so much power. And the CDGE B9TL has maintainance issues, power a big issue. Though the Voith-ed ones are quite smooth. As for Wrights only batch 1 has ZF6HP1200, 2 and 3 have Voith DIWA. If at bottom deck gives u impression tt you're on a SD
How can the MKIII be more powerful than the KUB.........its got a far heavier (studier!) body and less if not equal torque rating.
I didn't undermine my sentence. Please read carefully, gussie no. 2.
Please take the good old MKIIIs more often while you still can. They all keep to 60km/h.
Actually I don't know why I disagree with you on everything, but *take deep breath*
Compared to the WEG, in general the CDGE has got a lot of untamed power (and noise dammit). I reckon it is still the DD model with the best performance. But its not important to me. Not when there's so much vibration and noise.
Lastly, how can it be that the MKIIIs *in general* have no speed-limitors? This is well and truly laughable.
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Originally posted by The Kiwi Bus Fan:
Still, even more people complained of KUB and falling down and stuff. They should be happy already. And i've seen countless people attempting adjust Citaro a/c ducts to find none. LOL
The worst is when the KUB brakes down-hill....or starts from that position.
People usually fall there.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
How can the MKIII be more powerful than the KUB.........its got a far heavier (studier!) body and less if not equal torque rating.
I didn't undermine my sentence. Please read carefully, gussie no. 2.
Please take the good old MKIIIs more often while you still can. They all keep to 60km/h.
Actually I don't know why I disagree with you on everything, but *take deep breath*
Compared to the WEG, in general the CDGE has got a lot of untamed power (and noise dammit). I reckon it is still the DD model with the best performance. But its not important to me. Not when there's so much vibration and noise.
Lastly, how can it be that the MKIIIs *in general* have no speed-limitors? This is well and truly laughable.
MkIII have no limit, just BC obeying SG law
The WEG2 still has better peformance, though I don't bother about untamed power etc.
Most old buses don't have an actual speed limitor, only new buses added those. If you say they have limitors to 60 i laugh st the fact how countless KUBs and other new buses have been overtaken by Mkiv or O405. Okay, Mkiii naturally slow, look at the MkIV
. Iirc mkiii is 240bhp, correct me if wrong. Btw Citaro facelift comes with more powerful engine (1600nm instead of 1250) and updated Voith DIWA or ZF Ecolife. Ecomat will soon become history
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
More narrow aisles.
I've heard pax calling the Citaro interior "stupid".
I wouldn't go as far as to say that, but I understand their frustrations.
and referring to this, the priority seats in KUB are quite hopeless, single file only. 5 in Euro IV and 10 in Euro V. View not good also. Citaro arrangement at priority better, 12 seats facing front.
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Let me show you what a ZF MKIII can do without a speed-limitor.
Volvo B10M-55 Mk.III Aabenraa year 1991 (ZF)
The bus is still in 3rd gear at 60+km/hr.
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
You must be joking....
The 113s have the worst depreciation record when you compare against contemporary Volvo and Merc we had.
And Cummins have had their fair share of engine fires. Remember who started the AMDEP fire? How many Lances have burned down? And the soot! Unbelievable stuff.
And what's so good about ZF? ZF has the longest list of problems I have encountered. Wait a few more years and you'll see.
http://sgforums.com/forums/1279/topics/217203 sorry im using what MS said here.
Dun give a shit about Cummins already lols, as long as they get MB or Volvo. ZF Ecolife is new ._. not Ecomat. next generation liao. Will wait and see. But parts sooner or later need go overhaul de. Inevitable. But MkIIs still went by 20 years
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Originally posted by SBS2601D:
Let me show you what a ZF MKIII can do without a speed-limitor.
Volvo B10M-55 Mk.III Aabenraa year 1991 (ZF)
The bus is still in 3rd gear at 60+km/hr.
SBS876R and SBS877M can do 4th gear at quite low speeds. And this bus different engine de. I think MkIIIs is cause low power then can't go past 60kmh. but they don't have a limitor at 60kmh. maybe higher
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signing off here for today in case i dun reply~