NTI-PARIS
-
Decantre
Firstly, I am confused by your stand as you saidUnless they read sgforums on a regular basis, checking for customer complaints.
So do you know as a distributor, are you a customer or representative of the company? What legal rights do you have to represent the company with regards to Agency Laws? (You said you are an AGENT of NTI but do you know you are not legally an AGENT as you are not a legal representative of the company?) Do you have the same rights as a consumer or is it a pure B2B transaction with regards to you selling the concept of NTI?
Secondly, regarding the actions being taken against NTI you will know soon enough. Previously most forumers here have just made predictions and guesses regarding the fate of NTI. This time, we have taken action and these will bear fruit soon. Perhaps you'd like to ask Jacky if CAD was investigating NTI right now? BTW, if CID was investigating, it will be extremely unpleasant, just be glad its CAD. If I am that someone you are saying paraphrasing old posts, you do need to re-read all the 39 pages. In the past two months, more concrete information and positive action has come out than the past two years combined.
Do you really want paper examples of brainwashing in NTI? It simply shows you are one of the bottom feeders. I have a document from NTI showing how brainwashing is done! On top of that, it shows all the techniques that you can find from all the pressure selling/brainwashing books. You might want to get it from your upline's upline's upline to help improve your sales.
Whats with silly analogies to sidestep questions? Is it one of the Core Skills in MLM? It gets so irritating when nonsensical analogies pop up, perhaps its a better way of presenting a flawed argument as it induces the reader to come up with his/her own interpretation.
I can say that I strongly believe that although most MLMs are pretty much by-the-book, NTI is not one of them. You want to see a successful MLM that has no complaints? Check www.skyquestcom.com they sell educational/motivational materials and seminars etc. They rank as Singapore's Fastest Growing Online Companies. If NTI is aiming to go into e-biz, it is so far off that the end cannot be see. Its been two years already and so far has it even reached top 500 internet buisnesses in Asia? Skyquest is also around two years old. The people behind it are true success stories, unlike those in NTI. I am not associated with the company in any way but during my research, this company is one of the few MLMs that actually have positive publicity. -
Requesting NTI to release a report... for the benefit of its detractors? That's like Coke releasing its internal report to Pepsi and braying, "HERE; we are legal; we are making profits."
As an investor(you who invested hundreds or even thousands and wishes to earn in near future), i guess it will be important to know where the money goes and where it's coming from. Without knowing all this, who knows that your money might be thrown into the sea?
Now being the small agent I am in NTI, I doubt I have the power to ask for that. Smile Of course, you are welcome to try.
http://www2.coca-cola.com/investors/annual_other_reports.html
"The only place where success comes before work is in a dictionary." - Vidal Sassoon
"Quickly identify mistakes and take action" - Charlie Munger -
blah blah blah.... always the same things, over and over again. even in other mlm company forum also talking about same thing, i think i can't really trust the things that is said here.. it is better to ask someone who is doing now than listen to a forum
-
Go eiKei GO! please give us updated results of the investigations!
-
Brainwashing? In document? Huh?
Laurence, I read your posts. You are an intelligent man, so don't pretend you don't know what I am saying. Especially when you could conclude that one of my posts was 'you have based your point on the fact that nti has never been caught.'
This is why i always encourage people to go observe. Observation is the most valid proof to oneself. i think this had been by and large stated by many. Mayhap you want to go to the first topic and challenge every statement?
Didn't Eiken mentioned that he was compiling a list of people with complaints against NTI? Surely he or you would have included evidence of NTI brainwashing their agents in that list, because that's a big issue, isn't it? And please don't let it be the usual stuff about how someone was brought down to NTI and told about how good and how successful he can be if only he join the company.
New religious movements (NRM)use brainwashing methods like 1)isolation from others for weeks, 2) humilation and public confessions for breaking of small rules, 3) sleep deprivation, 4) small rewards for any form of cooperation, among others.
Can you prove that NTI is using these methods? Are there any first-person testimonials? Can you?
And if you mean a subtler form of brainwashing, then, well, Singaporeans aren't living under a fucking rock. If we can be so easily influenced by outside forces, then everyone would be buying everything advertised on TV and in papers.
The recent GE. PAP talked about how opposition actually hampered PAP's efforts to focus long term, as they have to spend their time fighting back the opposition's claims. Did you believe that?
A little while back. America talked about weapons of mass destruction as their reason for invading Iraq. Did you believe that?
Singaporeans are a cynical lot.
Yet they can supposedly be 'brainwashed' simply by listening to a guy in a coat, or going to a company for a few days.
Again, can you prove that?
Too simple an excuse.
Also, thank you for providing that piece of legal jargon for me.
I understand your point.
Unfortunately I have to ask you: why are you asking me that?
Or for that matter, why are you asking so many NTI agents who posted here, that.
Obviously the decision to release such a document lies with the management themselves. Why are you asking the agents as opposed to the management?
Because the agents can't answer that. What do you expect us to reply, "I will ask my director to release the documents to prove you wrong!"?
I can only see one reason for your asking: so that less experienced agents will be tempted to avoid the question or be shown not being able to answer altogether. Score one for the anti-NTI camp! They can't release the documents because they are hiding something, nyeah people I told you so.
Ask the correct people.
And since we are on the topic, I do have to admit that comparing Coke and Pepsi was off. I forgot that as a public company Coke have to release their reports.
But there you go. They are required by law to do so because they are publicly owned. Not because Pepsi demanded to see those documents.
Privately owned companies have no need to release private audit reports.
And isn't that one of the reasons why some big companies choose to remain private? So that they don't have to release audit reports that will be available to their competitors?So do you know as a distributor, are you a customer or representative of the company? What legal rights do you have to represent the company with regards to Agency Laws? (You said you are an AGENT of NTI but do you know you are not legally an AGENT as you are not a legal representative of the company?) Do you have the same rights as a consumer or is it a pure B2B transaction with regards to you selling the concept of NTI?
Kind of lost you halfway there. I'm sorry - I am after all a poor, brainwashed lapdog minion of Mr James Phang and I do not have the IQ to process that chunk of text.
Your reply was kind of volatile considering that my comment was an off-the-cuff sarcastic remark.
Stand? What stand? I was simply saying that the person asked the wrong person in the wrong place.
So actually, that chunk of text was kind of irrelevant (in fact, while I think I got what you were trying to say, I have a feeling you typed those words just to make it sound more important and deep.)
How did you manage to link my remark to my rights and exact position as an agent, is simply amazing.
And they say girls overanalyse everything. -
I'm kinda sleepy now so I shall not bother to entertain your silly emotional rambling. You have degenerated into intolerable personal attacks and are no longer coherent and as such I will not even attempt to reply to you.
I'd just like to let you know something: If you don't know who you are working for, it is really very sad. You said you were working for James Phang.
The Boss of NTI is actually Jackie Hoo. James Phang does not own any shares in the Pte Ltd company and does not hold a directorship there too. Its so terribly unfortunate for you to be so zealous about something you don't know about.
By the way, my nick is Eikei, not whatever you called me. -
sigh, its the same thing we all had with 'i am nti' or something
i concur with eikei (not eiken or something) and advise you not to resort to personal attacks in the discussion of issues
i dont understand the language of sarcasm, so please dont try to start one with me
-
lag monster attack!
-
I have a document from NTI showing how brainwashing is done! On top of that, it shows all the techniques that you can find from all the pressure selling/brainwashing books. You might want to get it from your upline's upline's upline to help improve your sales.
Oh yes, please do show that document.I would love to see how brainwashing is done in NTI, seeing as how I am only a bottom-feeder.
I studied marketing. The books that were recommended by my tutor were the same as those recommended to me as my 'upline's upline's upline'. I have no idea that sales techniques were brainwashing tools! Whoo!Whats with silly analogies to sidestep questions? Is it one of the Core Skills in MLM? It gets so irritating when nonsensical analogies pop up, perhaps its a better way of presenting a flawed argument as it induces the reader to come up with his/her own interpretation.
Damn, and there I was hoping no one found that out! Oh dear.
Now, in order to sound more expert-y, perhaps I should follow your example and use lots of technical jargon to confuse people, and copy-paste text from law books as if you are the only people who know what law is all about.
No, not really.
But hey, I like the fact that you guys always bring up laws and all that jazz to support your points.
Is it one of the Core Skills in being Anti-MLM?
I think that's a good thing to learn:
Article 11. (Declaration of Human Rights)
(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.
(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.
Innocent until proven guilty is an accepted right.
But for NTI you seem to be working on the context that it is 'guilty until proven innocent'. Show us the documents, it's going to collapse, yada yada yada.
Granted, it's not a person, but you get my point.I can say that I strongly believe that although most MLMs are pretty much by-the-book, NTI is not one of them. You want to see a successful MLM that has no complaints? Check www.skyquestcom.com they sell educational/motivational materials and seminars etc. They rank as Singapore's Fastest Growing Online Companies. If NTI is aiming to go into e-biz, it is so far off that the end cannot be see. Its been two years already and so far has it even reached top 500 internet buisnesses in Asia? Skyquest is also around two years old. The people behind it are true success stories, unlike those in NTI. I am not associated with the company in any way but during my research, this company is one of the few MLMs that actually have positive publicity.
Two things. If you say that Skyquest has good publicity, that's great. Positive publicity is almost a mirage in MLM. Look at Belair, VE, DW, Amway, NTI, Nuskin - which company hadn't been aimed at in this forum? But yet they are all alive in their own ways.
The next thing. What do you mean by true success stories versus NTI's ones?
I probably won't be posting those longish replies anymore, seeing as how I have 'NO TIME'. While it might be comforting to think of NTI people are stupid, believe me there are a lot of people like me in NTI, who thinks sgforums is all about repetitive accusations and unproven claims. And they can reply better than me. It's just that they are more laidback about it. 'Let them talk lorh.'
Initially I was a bit tentative about posting here because I know that once I posted, there will be replies questioning my stances and I know I will be tempted to reply to everyone of them.
I'm not actually surprised by the fact that there are people against NTI. Nothing is universally liked or accepted. But I do find it funny that people are taking this issue so seriously that they can guard the forum for hours replying everyone.
It was fun to interact with you guys, but after a while I realise this is such a waste of time. No wonder someone once told me to read sgforums for fun to see all the hilarious stuff they say about not just NTI but about MLM in general.
I'll leave you guys to your regularly scheduled NTI bashing. -
It's funny to see that when I question you and laurence about the topic of brainwashing and the fact that you have mislinked my posts, you push aside my post by dismissing it as emotional ramblings and intolerable personal attacks.Originally posted by Eikei:I'm kinda sleepy now so I shall not bother to entertain your silly emotional rambling. You have degenerated into intolerable personal attacks and are no longer coherent and as such I will not even attempt to reply to you.
I'd just like to let you know something: If you don't know who you are working for, it is really very sad. You said you were working for James Phang.
The Boss of NTI is actually Jackie Hoo. James Phang does not own any shares in the Pte Ltd company and does not hold a directorship there too. Its so terribly unfortunate for you to be so zealous about something you don't know about.
By the way, my nick is Eikei, not whatever you called me.
If you want to see what true 'intolerable' personal attacks are about, I suggest you visit the message boards of any actor. Trust me, if my posts were 'intolerable', those inside are a thousand times worst.
By the way, if that was 'emotional ramblings', I fear for your reaction when you encounter a real hysterical girl. :s
Oh, and I do know who I am working for. I was simply using the words that some people has used to describe agents of NTI. So terribly unfortunate indeed that once again you have misunderstood my posts. -
If I got a dollar for everytime you edit your post once I post mine, I'd be richer than your boss by now. You have been vacillating so much in your arguments you can power a 40 watt lightbulb. I really don't know how to reply to someone who posts, then reads, then edits then reedits then reposts. I mean if we can all go back in time and change the things we said and did, there wouldn't be a need for a Court or a judiciary.
It is definitely not a crime to be as enthusiastic as you are but perhaps you would take some time to digest things being said here. Some are of course NTI-bashing but if you read closely there are many gems to be found. Just because you have thrown your money in NTI doesn't mean that you must do the same done upon you onto others. How many people must be hurt for this cycle to stop? Who stands to gain the most?
Most of us are bystanders watching this whole thing play out, both on the side of NTI and on the side of the victims of NTI. We aren't victims who have come here to whine and complain, bad mouth or sulk. People like Laurence82 and I have come here to share the information we have with those who are victims and those potential victims of scams. We came to our own conclusions regarding certain MLM companies through research and perhaps prior involvement with the companies. It is out of pure goodwill that we are here to educate the public about good practices and to make people like you aware of the potential pitfalls that lie ahead of you. It is advice that you can choose to take or not but what you as a person who believes in NTI can do is to show us the evidence that the company is good and is above board. Bring facts. Bring evidence. Bring results. That will do more good to the company than thousand words posts, arguing like a petulant child. -
decantre,Originally posted by decantre:It's funny to see that when I question you and laurence about the topic of brainwashing and the fact that you have mislinked my posts, you push aside my post by dismissing it as emotional ramblings and intolerable personal attacks.
If you want to see what true 'intolerable' personal attacks are about, I suggest you visit the message boards of any actor. Trust me, if my posts were 'intolerable', those inside are a thousand times worst.
By the way, if that was 'emotional ramblings', I fear for your reaction when you encounter a real hysterical girl. :s
Oh, and I do know who I am working for. I was simply using the words that some people has used to describe agents of NTI. So terribly unfortunate indeed that once again you have misunderstood my posts.
I only have i word for you...
BRAVO... -
another 3 of my friends asked me to join NTI... sigh...
MLM where does all the money goes to? would that money be misused and another enron or whatever happens? -
HELLO !!! YOYOYOZ!!
first I please you all dun flame nti lar!! please! nti is my home, i am the dog of nti. all agents are the dogs of nti!! you are scolding my our master, our home!! pretty pity please!!!
please please please!! all nti agents are begging you not to sue us!! omg!! we are dog, we can lick you shoe for free!! please please please!!
anyway can you guys please join me and call your friends to join me also?
my upline, jacky, desmond, jason all these bastard keep pushing me to buy a car!!! i need your help!!! please please!! join me. i am begging you! we agents are son of a bitch, are shameless bastards!! but i need your help please!! they keep pressuring me!! they threaten to do something bad to me and my family if i can't buy a car at the end of this year!!
i beg you guys!! join me please please pretty please!! :kneel down: i dun want my family got things to happen!! please buy 1 account at least!! best is 20 account at once!!
please let me con you and let me help you con your friend!! i really need a car please!! i need to drive my gf to meet desmond and let him f*** her!! omg!! this is going crazy!! dun tell anyone about this!! please! i love nti and i love ega!! please!! join me!! -
haha this is damn farnie..so what car does mr hoo wants now, a ferrari ah.
wah i have been outa this company for a year and it has caused so much hype.. -
erm u can ask pple who are doin it, who did it and who have frens still doin what..think thats trustable enuff riteOriginally posted by mlm idoit:blah blah blah.... always the same things, over and over again. even in other mlm company forum also talking about same thing, i think i can't really trust the things that is said here.. it is better to ask someone who is doing now than listen to a forum -
erm u can ask pple who are doin it, who did it and who have frens still doin what..think thats trustable enuff riteOriginally posted by mlm idoit:blah blah blah.... always the same things, over and over again. even in other mlm company forum also talking about same thing, i think i can't really trust the things that is said here.. it is better to ask someone who is doing now than listen to a forum -
Jackie who?
-
Jacky Wu from guess guess guess lah... you got the spelling of linchiling wrong, it's chi not zhi, you imposter...Originally posted by linzhiling:Jackie who? 
-
It is pronounced as Zhi lah....Zhi Ling get it?
And I confirmed it's Jackie Hoo hoo hoo! (Liang por por) -
i..got nuthing else to say......
-
It's Jackie Hoooooooooooo!! Aka Hard Gay lah.... Say say say... It's chi lah... you go google for the name...Originally posted by linzhiling:It is pronounced as Zhi lah....Zhi Ling get it?
And I confirmed it's Jackie Hoo hoo hoo! (Liang por por) -
decantre is definitely sarcastic, always attacking... lol the way a girl should be...
oh yeah i want to add, i like to edit my posts too like decantre so i can light up a 400 watt lightbulb... lol kudos on that comment, i like it alot!
ps: was just commenting on decantre's attitude -
Hey people! I'm back, what have I missed?
If I got a dollar for everytime you edit your post once I post mine, I'd be richer than your boss by now. You have been vacillating so much in your arguments you can power a 40 watt lightbulb. I really don't know how to reply to someone who posts, then reads, then edits then reedits then reposts. I mean if we can all go back in time and change the things we said and did, there wouldn't be a need for a Court or a judiciary.
Ooh, smooth comeback. I like that comment about the lightbulb. It's so cute. I really don't know how to reply to someone who posts, then reads, then edits then reedits then reposts.
Perhaps I can suggest: 1) saving a screenshot of her post, 2) then posting your reply, 3) and then if the person changes her post, 4) you could show the screenshot of the first post as completely seal-proof evidence that she has edited her post?
Now, have I edited my posts? Yes, I have. It's actually kind of embarrassing, but I realised that after I posted, the posts are so damn long that they have to be linked to another page.
So I would edit my post to make it shorter. I don't want you to be deprived from the absolute sarcasm of my posts, you see.
Contents-wise, I can only remember adding this part:If you want to see what true 'intolerable' personal attacks are about, I suggest you visit the message boards of any actor. Trust me, if my posts were 'intolerable', those inside are a thousand times worst.
Because I have a feeling you rather misunderstood the meaning of emotional ramblings, and the use of the word 'intolerable'. Of course, this is from my opinion, and it could be different from yours.
By the way, if that was 'emotional ramblings', I fear for your reaction when you encounter a real hysterical girl. :s Maybe you have a lower tolerance threshold?
But actually, I'm actually kind of scared that I have hurt your feelings unintentionally. For you to call it an intolerable personal attack.
Is it possible for you to show me where have I made intolerable personal attacks in my posts?
I would love to go back and edit my posts so that it doesn't personally attack you anymore. (with your permission, of course, and screenshots so that everyone can see I do not edit more than that.)
Moving on, I'm sure that you still have doubts, whether those are the only stuff I have edited. No worries! I'm sure that a man like you would have already have evidence of such transgressions.
Surely in your next post you will inform all and sundry about the text I have altered, the stands I have changed!
I look forward to such a post.It is out of pure goodwill that we are here to educate the public about good practices and to make people like you aware of the potential pitfalls that lie ahead of you. It is advice that you can choose to take or not but what you as a person who believes in NTI can do is to show us the evidence that the company is good and is above board.
It's very assuring that there are such selfless, benevolent individuals out there who would do that, with no ulterior motives and motivations.
I feel fortunate that altruism still exists in Singapore.
Undoubtably the future of MLM is bright, under your wise and impartial guidance and advice. Eikei, continue doing what you will. It's an important duty to have - to educate the public.
If I may just suggest something?
Instead of only directing your energies at countering girls who can light up 40 watt lightbulbs, girls who are prone to emotional ramblings, and girls who post intolerable personal attacks, you would look beyond this forum, and do something more than just winning debates with NTI agents virtually.
*pause*
I notice that for my last few posts, you have countered my entries by dismissing my character, and my behaviour, instead of the points I have raised.
So friend, what's next? Are you going to dismiss me next by commenting that I appear to be raving?
Let me help you by citing some examples you can use:
1) You could say that you are too sleepy (wait, you already did that)
2) That I have reduced myself to emotional ramblings, and as such is impossible to answer (check.)
3) That I change my arguments too much (check)
4) That I appear to be raving mad and so you will not answer a madman.
5) You could find out who I am in the company, dig up some dirt and then voila! Expose my identity and dirty laundry online.
6) My posts are too long to read properly.
7) My posts are so sarcastic they make your eyes burn
8 ) I am too immature to argue with you, silly girl that I am.
9) I am too silly to argue with you.
10) I do not produce evidence, so therefore you shall not deign to reply.
11) I am jumping to conclusions, so you see no need to reply.
12) I'm wildly imaginative, and therefore you see no need to reply too.
13) I argue like a petulant child, so therefore you see no need to reply (again, check.)
I'm sure that you can think of more.
I look forward to seeing how you dismiss me next. By the way, it's really smart of you to use that. By attempting to bring down someone's credibility, you are able to dismiss that person's entire argument in one fell swoop. Excellent!
PS: By the way, I screenshoted this post. In case you need the evidence that I alter my contents, feel free to ask me. -
Bring facts. Bring evidence. Bring results.
Yes, yes, yes. I completely agree.New religious movements (NRM)use brainwashing methods like 1)isolation from others for weeks, 2) humilation and public confessions for breaking of small rules, 3) sleep deprivation, 4) small rewards for any form of cooperation, among others.
I believe that you have missed out this sentence in my post.
Can you prove that NTI is using these methods? Are there any first-person testimonials? Can you?
Because surely otherwise you would not have not answered it.
Why, NTI agents are the ones who are supposed to sidestep questions! Eikei and Laurence would never do that.Two things. If you say that Skyquest has good publicity, that's great. Positive publicity is almost a mirage in MLM. Look at Belair, VE, DW, Amway, NTI, Nuskin - which company hadn't been aimed at in this forum? But yet they are all alive in their own ways.
I believe here's another one you have missed out.
The next thing. What do you mean by true success stories versus NTI's ones?Oh yes, please do show that document.
Another one you have missed out. Who knows, maybe I even have the paper? I would love to see how brainwashing is done in NTI, seeing as how I am only a bottom-feeder.
Whether intentionally or not, you have already sidestepped my questions. I feel that it's only my rightful responsibility to inform you of the potential pitfalls. It would make you look very silly, for one, if you cannot provide evidence of brainwashing, as it is one of the most persistent tags attached to NTI.
PS: This post was screenshoted too. Again, if you need evidence of my altering of my posts, feel free to ask me.