NTI-PARIS
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hey hey, why are you all drifting away from the questions that i asked? if they are really illegel in singapore, why they are not caught yet? that means you are saying that the police in singapore is lousy?
i think they already stayed there for quite some time already right? -
Because nobody has made a complaint against them yet. Police don't arrest people until you call them right?
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i agree with mlm idiot.. hmm.. eikei, i've decided to call the police for e sake of ending all this nonsense once and for all.. wait for my good news..
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I can't really imagine someone calling the police without much info or evidence. But you are welcome to try and see their response.
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Actually, I have seen your question for the nth time.Originally posted by mlm idoit:hey hey, why are you all drifting away from the questions that i asked? if they are really illegel in singapore, why they are not caught yet? that means you are saying that the police in singapore is lousy? i think they already stayed there for quite some time already right?
i think i even posted one or two article on it, gotta find, its about CAD revealing their investigation process and one article on how some guy got caught only after two decades
And yes, to put it correctly, any organisation is efficient where it serves their interests. any guy who went through NS would know this concept well
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hey guys... i can't believe it.. i really can't believe this.. after calling the police..the police actually said NTI is legal... they even said NTI is not offending any laws and regulations, and they've a absolutely clean record.. this is absurd..
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what do you expect?
just wait for them to collapse from within...
if they aren't strong, they won't last
You don't have to do anything... just pity those stuck in there -
You are a really lame excuse for a clone. It is obvious that you didn't call the police and you are trying to stop people from calling. And NO, they do not have a clean record just for you information, using their FOCUS system, the police will easily be able to retrieve info regarding this company and add you to the complain/victim list that they are compiling against this company.Originally posted by vamslayer:hey guys... i can't believe it.. i really can't believe this.. after calling the police..the police actually said NTI is legal... they even said NTI is not offending any laws and regulations, and they've a absolutely clean record.. this is absurd..
NTI must be real desperate to stop people from filing complaints about them. -
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OWNING!
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I can't believe it too and i really can't believe this that you called the police and the police actually said NTI is legal, etc... I even can't believe that with all the negative remarks about NTI, you can place such nonsensical posting here! This is indeed absurd! DUH!Originally posted by vamslayer:hey guys... i can't believe it.. i really can't believe this.. after calling the police..the police actually said NTI is legal... they even said NTI is not offending any laws and regulations, and they've a absolutely clean record.. this is absurd.. -
Try harder again........Originally posted by vamslayer:hey guys... i can't believe it.. i really can't believe this.. after calling the police..the police actually said NTI is legal... they even said NTI is not offending any laws and regulations, and they've a absolutely clean record.. this is absurd..
Btw, you think it's neighbourhood police ah? -
You know I think this is the funniest retaliation we've seen in a very long time. Hahaha pretending to be a victim. They really like to be humiliated every single time they come here to post. What next? Someone whose nick is Policeman and says that NTI is legal? h
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Guess what.
Check out vamslayer's profile
His email actually has his name inside.
[email protected]
Another check actually reveals that this guy is in NTI.
Guess what. Will the 'victim' be calling the police to come in to close down his 'business'?
Furthermore, he just registered for the sole purpose of posting those 3 posts and his signature sounds like somebody who is 'motivated' by the company to get from a nobody to a somebody.
You can try adding him to msn and say you're interested in joining. Lets see whether he'll reject the prospects. -
Huh? Cloudymind, how you know that this "danqing_lin" is in nti????
Another check actually reveals that this guy is in NTI.
Are you also an NTI person? Hmm....... Im starting to doubt every single person's identity here. Seems like lots of people pretending to be somebody else, so scary. Cant even trust anybody anymore, or anything said here.
Who knows? I really wonder whats going on here. I've been reading all 38 pages of this thread and found out that some of the pple here are actually from other companies with hidden motives.. cos I PM-ed some of them. At least this brave guy, vamslayer, dares to put his name and email out here in the open. LOL. Not like so many pple only love to talk behind fake identities and "stage names". Haiz... so confusing. -
You dont have to be in NTI to know the people in NTI.
They got so many people down to their company to persuade them to join and everytime the people who goes down are greeted by NTI people introducing themselves and so on.
So its not a big deal that this guy who posted here is known for being in NTI. He might not even know that his email can be displayed from his profile at all since he's new and only has time for NTI 'business'.
Furthermore, why are you reading all 38 pages of this?
Are you considering joining NTI or something?
It is unfortunate that there are people with malicious intent hiding behind stage names but that is the way this age has evolved into. Read, research and think for yourself. Nobody is forcing any opinions on you. -
hmm.. actually i agree with you, the people here seems like there are some from other company that with some motives here, since the others doesn't like the ans from vamslayer, then you all can go call the police yourselves lor.. anyway, the company everyday also got open de right?Originally posted by slash83:Are you also an NTI person? Hmm....... Im starting to doubt every single person's identity here. Seems like lots of people pretending to be somebody else, so scary. Cant even trust anybody anymore, or anything said here.
Who knows? I really wonder whats going on here. I've been reading all 38 pages of this thread and found out that some of the pple here are actually from other companies with hidden motives.. cos I PM-ed some of them. At least this brave guy, vamslayer, dares to put his name and email out here in the open. LOL. Not like so many pple only love to talk behind fake identities and "stage names". Haiz... so confusing.
anytime the police can go and check de ma.. -
I asked my friend. The last payout he had was in the beginning of May. I don't know what you were trying to imply? And perhaps calling the NTI office to check with Ms 'Clarise' and Ms Ivy would be better instead of asking them here. Unless they read sgforums on a regular basis, checking for customer complaints.Originally posted by weijian:to those ex-agents of NTI,
those agents who are Gold Merchants under the old previous system,
may i check with u guys if your account have the Life-Time Profit Sharing coming into ur account once every 3 months?
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To the administrator/management of NTI:
Ms Clarise and Ms Ivy:
Can i ask why my account doesn't LPS coming into my account for so long?
If i didn't remeber wrongly the 3rd or 4th time should be round the corner, can i get my question answered?
Hey, hi. I guess I'm not going to be welcomed here, seeing as how this thread is strongly anti-NTI and I'm an agent in it. And you know, why bother to step into a place when people dislike the likes of people like me? But I have some stuff to share, actually, and yes I set up an account just to post this.
(no, don't get me wrong. i don't have time to surf forums one. im after all, busy doing my NTI stuff and trying to 'bring up nti'. but i do occasionally find time to surf the net, check email, check websites and even more rarely, breath.)
One year back, in March 2005 I was asked by my colleague in Takashimaya to join this company in Raffles Place.
When I was making my decision I decide to go online and search, and sgforums came up. And I read this other thread about NTI (the one where they misspelt NTI as MIT, and if I remember correctly, you guys said Mr Desmond and Mr Jackie were good actors? Or something like that. And how they only exploit young people?).
And I actually made up my mind to ask for a refund, seeing as how there was all these negative press about it.
But eventually I didn't. Not because my upline 'psycho' me not to. I didn't even tell anyone I read sgforums.
I think it was because of what one of the guys said in that thread? Something like 'once you put money in and you can't get refund back...' so I thought since I won't be able to get my refund, then I stay, earn back my capital, and leave lorh.
So in a way, I have to thank sgforums. If it weren't for that post, I would have left NTI long ago.
I guess there will be a dozens people out there now who think that I must have been brainwashed by NTI.
Well, that's when I think you guys can do better in explaining that. When it comes to technical issues, you have all these specific definitions and explanations of MLM schemes, DSAS, CAD procedures... but when it came to explaining why some agents are so devoted... one word to sidestep explaining: brainwashing.
I mean, surely you all can do better than that? Don't tell me you guys are the sort also to believe that Katie Holmes was 'brainwashed' by Tom Cruise to have the baby Suri.
One year ago when I browsed the forums, the issues that came up regularly was 1) NTI is an illegal pyramid scheme; 2) NTI will not last longer than six months; 3) police/CAD will be launching a crackdown on NTI very soon.
One year later when I decide to revisit this site at the request of my friend, the issues that came up regularly are 1) NTI is an legalised scam; 2) NTI will not last longer than 2 years; 3) CAD/CID will be launching a crackdown on NTI very soon - oh please! Find something else to pick on can? Reading the thread became so montonous after a while. I had the vague impression that someone simply paraphased some old posts.
Some of you might have bad impressions about NTI. I'm not trying to change anyone's point of view. If anything, this is probably a one-off post. Someone out there joined NTI and she didn't die, her friends didn't leave her, her parents and her are still talking, the world didnt collapse, nor did her life sank to new lows. -
its always the same
while i admit some are done in excesses, many had posted their observations and opinions of the scheme to heck in many threads
but the cycle repeats itself
these posts were hardly challenged
the responses were always the same - character assasination, politics and appeal to other notions like courage and all that
it used to mindboggling for me, now its pretty disgusting
here is someone who claimed he called the police and the police told him nti is perfectly legal, he got exposed by somebody who knows about the police and their FOCUS system, by the way, the law do not support even thought it may not prosecute, in the sense, the police do not label or declare any MLM operation legal, they work by negative injunction approach
and his supposed peers? elevate him to an icon of bravery and diverting the issue to the background of other forumers? trying to score political points? i hope lying is not quiessential part of nti's 'professionalism' right?
if you are being challenged, have the guts to admit or deny if you have good reasons -
decantre
l must say, if only your peers could answer like you, that is, to the point
i am not sure if there is any sidestep about explaing the brainwashing part, but i advise you to read Robert Cialdini's Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion its about some tools of persuason and influence, but most of all, read about social proof and its effects on cults. I must also note, that Robert Cialdini's work is very extensive, based on many researches including his own, and his stints, as part of his research, in the business world
i am sure you will find that there are findings in that book which could be relevations to you, especially in what you are doing now
i am glad you made it, perhaps you are buoyed by your success to write this post of yours
but one disturbing thing, you have based your point on the fact that nti has never been caught
i put forward one question to you - can you prove absolutely, that no prosecution is a proof of legality and ethics, ever in the legal history of singapore? we need absolute, not what ifs
and if these werent brainwashing that attract large groups of people to your company, mayhap its due to the success of your company?
then its not too much to ask you to prove that there are large but not total success stories in your company, by requesting your company to release an audited annual report stating the median, mean and mode income of the agents in your company as required in section two line 5 of the MLM Exclusion Order, which was pointed out by another forumer in another thread? -
Are you talking about vamslayer's entry or someone else's? I did not see his supposed peers elevating him as an icon - all I see was forumers bashing his retaliation. Nor do I see how it could benefit him in terms of office politics.Originally posted by laurence82:...and his supposed peers? elevate him to an icon of bravery and diverting the issue to the background of other forumers? trying to score political points? i hope lying is not quiessential part of nti's 'professionalism' right?
if you are being challenged, have the guts to admit or deny if you have good reasons
Not everyone who posts here are as forum-savvy as you are. Maybe he just want to defend NTI because, well, look at how malicious some of the posts can get. Maybe he did it wrongly in a way that brought down his credibility. But he doesn't represent the whole of NTI.
Laurence, thank you for the book recommendation. I have not read the book before, so I will refrain from shooting my mouth off about it. However, fact does remain that brainwashing (to the point that you seem to be suggesting) remains a controversial and hotly debated question still.
In any case, I seriously doubt that NTI uses brainwashing. Perhaps you could show us some examples of brainwashing tactics that was deployed by the management? Evidence and paper documents are always the final word, isn't it?but one disturbing thing, you have based your point on the fact that nti has never been caught
Perhaps you have misunderstood my post. My whole point actually, was to share my personal experience and to point out that the questions surrounding NTI now has been debated before. How did you link it to the fact that NTI has never been caught before?i put forward one question to you - can you prove absolutely, that no prosecution is a proof of legality and ethics, ever in the legal history of singapore? we need absolute, not what ifs
It's like asking someone to prove that a student who has never, ever failed a math exam before, is a proof that he is a mathematical genius.
[Damn, she's sidestepping the question! ]
No, I can't prove that. If I could, I would be doing my law thesis right now.
But hey, excellent example of a leading question. =)
Of course, companies like Adobe Systems has never been prosecuted before too. Does that mean they have unreasonable work ethics? I don't think so.and if these werent brainwashing that attract large groups of people to your company, mayhap its due to the success of your company?
Now this is a tad contradicting. I thought someone mentioned earlier that NTI is going to collapse soon? Or perhaps you were being sarcastic?then its not too much to ask you to prove that there are large but not total success stories in your company, by requesting your company to release an audited annual report stating the median, mean and mode income of the agents in your company as required in section two line 5 of the MLM Exclusion Order, which was pointed out by another forumer in another thread?
Requesting NTI to release a report... for the benefit of its detractors? That's like Coke releasing its internal report to Pepsi and braying, "HERE; we are legal; we are making profits."
Now being the small agent I am in NTI, I doubt I have the power to ask for that. Of course, you are welcome to try. -
In reply, its this post.Originally posted by decantre:Are you talking about vamslayer's entry or someone else's? I did not see his supposed peers elevating him as an icon - all I see was forumers bashing his retaliation. Nor do I see how it could benefit him in terms of office politics.
Not everyone who posts here are as forum-savvy as you are. Maybe he just want to defend NTI because, well, look at how malicious some of the posts can get. Maybe he did it wrongly in a way that brought down his credibility. But he doesn't represent the whole of NTI.
and thisOriginally posted by slash83:At least this brave guy, vamslayer, dares to put his name and email out here in the open. LOL. Not like so many pple only love to talk behind fake identities and "stage names". Haiz... so confusing.
And no, he hasnt retaliate. So what bashing his retaliation?Originally posted by mlm idoit:hmm.. actually i agree with you, the people here seems like there are some from other company that with some motives here, since the others doesn't like the ans from vamslayer, then you all can go call the police yourselves lor.. anyway, the company everyday also got open de right? anytime the police can go and check de ma..
Political point, not office politics, which in this case is character assasination, and i had never say it benefited him. Looks who question the background of others to imply their view are not forthcoming. One of the many ancient ways long used since officials slandered Yue Fei in front of the Song Emperor.
My advice is, defend by challenging the points as you do now, not by lying. Even if he doesnt represent the whole of nti, the battle is lost.
Put it this way, lets just separate, for simplicity sake, everyone into nti and the masses, some include potential agents for the company. Everyone has many choices including choosing your company, other MLM companies or simply doing a job. Your company, has only an aim, to gain profitability. And the only way is to gain through encouraging potential agents or customers.
And if you read all the success stories of successful people, whose companies live on today, they have few main philosophies, which include earning the trust of each customer and the public. I think they understood the rationale totally, and it serve them well.
Some companies I came across, went so far as to set up some sort of discplinary boards for expelling errant distributors. You have now one bad weed. No point just explaining about it, coz the harm is being done. Rather, think of how you can deal with errant agents. -
Vamslayer could be one of the anti-ntiians, nothing to complain about now so many set up a clone and say "AWW!!! nti people are so LAME, trying to fake!" hahaha maybe la dun quote me hehe
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which is why i rather discuss the issue than going into the background of whoever posted here
otherwise, the stuff get exposed and it becomes embarassing and contentious -
Decantre
Whatever you said is the same as saying there is no validity to the statement that 'not caught mean not illegal' often used by nti supporters or whoever they are, to use your words, 'Reading the thread became so montonous after a while. I had the vague impression that someone simply paraphased some old posts. ' and it apply equally to most nti supporters. i think people had given specific points about what is not legal or ethical, and you could ignore those who just simply said illegal.
As to what aspect is considered illegal, i will leave it to Eikei, who had an explaination about this directly from the police. He will give clearer view.
Brainwashing? In document? Huh?
This is why i always encourage people to go observe. Observation is the most valid proof to oneself. i think this had been by and large stated by many. Mayhap you want to go to the first topic and challenge every statement?
And about median, mode and mean income?
Let me copy the law for ya, you could check it if you dont believe.
2. (1) The definition of "Pyramid selling scheme or arrangement" in section 2 of the Act shall be taken not to include any of the following schemes or arrangements:
c) any scheme or arrangement, or any class of such schemes or arrangements, which satisfies the following terms and conditions;
v) a promoter of the scheme or arrangement shall, in respect of any representation relating to the actual or potential accrual of any benefit under the scheme or arrangement, maintain fair and accurate records of the maximum, minimum, median, average and mode benefits that have accrued to the promoter and participants in the scheme or arrangement, duly audited by an auditor for each financial year;
Such evidence is good to substantiate somewhat also your stance that people could be drawn by the real income of the earners rather than mere brainwashing.