Repost: Sunshine Empire
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i am not sure why all of us reply to him
if u realise, he has only about one statement to make, while there are news reports, issues and questions flying around him
seems no SE agent can answer to any issue, even the big boss also cant -
Hello Forum Friends.Originally posted by laurence82:Figures can be manipulated
and there are 1001 ways to look at accounts
Whats the point of posting one liners like 'Sales gone up by 20%!'
when a lot of things cant be proven or accounts not shown to the public?
From what I understand...
SE have not manipulate the sales figures since August 06. The problem is, this figure is first announced to the BRM during the weekly meetings and information is always lost in translation. Many a times, during big events like a rally, JP's lessons or some seminars, typically, these 2 would be announced;
- The number of GP that are sold for that month (SE seldom if not never mention the number of SP or BP sold)
- The monthly turnover (please not that turnover is not profit, it is the total gross sales figures and usually this is in USD)
I say 'announced' because these figures are NEVER released to the public. To merchants, it is always by word of mouth or by a notebook with info passed down from top. In some BRM's case, they do it in a more flashy way, they simply log in to their business account and show their sales figures to the downlines/merchants/associates or clients/prospects.
Problem: no official data or in black and white. why is this a problem?
because based on the IMAF (International Merchant Agreement Form), the CRP aspect of 'Prime' (BP, SP, GP) are calculated by 10% the monthly turnover of SE on the Emall platform, and then divided among shares to 'Prime' merchants.
One can actually google 'Sunshine Empire' and go view several blogs where agents compile the CRP figures since Aug 06. Unfortunately, due to recent media coverage of SE, it appears that the SE management is watching these blogs very carefully and have 'advised' some of them to be closed.
One of the best blog, a Singaporean agent/merchant from Malaysia originally, had a website, well known for its speed of acquiring news. Let's call this person 'IR'. E.g. this blog would have news right after a meeting and post it, even faster than the official SE website. IR would post IR's income and they are real.
Problem: IR posted her income from last year Aug 06 till present. IR joked it is a 'part-time job' and used terms like 'ROI up to 1200%' (Rate of Interest). She did not specify whether the income is
-passive or active
-resale or new sales
-primes or merchants?
Sadly, this blog/website has since disappeared (in early Nov). It would be rare to find a more informative website than this one.
There's actually no '1001 ways' to look at a SE account. What you see is what you get. Transactions are 'TFE' and income are 'Bonus'. You can't fake it.
The sales figures boasted by Christopher_RF that gone up by 20% is probably not fake. In SE, the GP has reached its mature stage of phase 6, or 7500 e-pts (S$12,000). Many SEA actually are motivated by the media coverage. Of course, one cannot deny the 'bullet-proof' methods that JH is imposing on the merchants. He has to. It is his job as the leader of SE. Of course, the skeptics would regard it as propaganda.
The upcoming Genting Incentive Trip for SE is really crucial for it's reputation for the long term. Finally, the annual reports, finances, auditing etc are going to be announced in black and white in this event from 27-29 Nov 2007.
Gee, I think I typed too much, please tell me if I provided any misinformation or was inaccurate. Just chipping in my 2 cents worth.
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their car achievers get BMW 524???????
no such model leh.... unless is paper made by those AH HENG JOSS PAPERS....
524 not in SG only overseas and it runs on DIESEL.... maybe its a premonition that they are going top drive TAXI???
check for BMW 524.... no such model -
Tell us also no use
As long as these accounts are not verified or investments sources proven, that is all you can say
And another issue in which you have neglected to address is your fellow agent, like owners of these blogs, have blatantly make one liner unproven statements.
Take the issue to him, not us. Do what is relevant! -
x2Originally posted by laurence82:Tell us also no use
As long as these accounts are not verified or investments sources proven, that is all you can say
And another issue in which you have neglected to address is your fellow agent, like owners of these blogs, have blatantly make one liner unproven statements.
Take the issue to him, not us. Do what is relevant! -
x3 :mrgeen: :mrgren: :mrgren: :mrgren: :mrgren: [color=white]
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Tell me where SE pumps the money into to get such high returns.
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From the Magic Kingdom - where money multiplies magically!
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and it disappeared magically too ~Originally posted by Rigante:From the Magic Kingdom - where money multiplies magically!
LMAO ~
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Lianhe Zaobao (Singapore)
Nov 8, 2007
Page 3
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Originally posted by ^tamago^:
[/b]
'I'm a legend - better than Warren Buffett' -
A charismatic James Phang, confident in spite of probe, boasts over $439m in assets
Straits Times, The (Singapore)
Home
October 24, 2007
Author: Lorna Tan, Finance Correspondent
*snip*
'I'm a legend. I'm very good - better than Warren Buffett,' he declares, referring to the United States investment guru.
Mr Phang claims to control more than US$300 million (S$439 million) in assets.
*snip*
So he's effectively running an illegal hedge fund with $300 million in assets?
[b]
'When I begin my seminars, my loyal participants would shout: 'Father, I love you!',' he says.
Sounds like a cult of personality here. People pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to have dinner with Warren Buffet but he doesn't boast or promote himself. Somehow, I get the feeling that he thinks he's god.[b]
'We have entered into an era whereby imagination is much more important than knowledge and creativity, much more effective than productivity,' he says.
Now this is the crux of the whole problem. Imagination more important than knowledge and creativity? More effective than productivity?
What fairy-tale land is this man living in?
Ideas are easy to come by. It's easy to dream. Knowledge, creativity and human labor is what turns dreams to reality. Why is Apple so much better than Creative at selling MP3 players? It's execution that matters. Uncle Sim had a dream that he would own the mp3 player market and he would spend whatever necessary to do it. He felt that as the first mover in the solid state mp3 market, the market 'owed' it to him.
But Creative could not execute as well.
Imagination is important. But the substance behind it is even more so.
Why are people so negative about SE? It's because the business model doesn't make sense. Even my friend's younger brother in Primary 5 can see it. -
Now we know why so many can called him " Ah Pa " ~Originally posted by Phaze:Even my friend's younger brother in Primary 5 can see it.
seem like most got IQ Level less than P5 ~
SG government very smart de, MAS warned liao, If SE Folded, None of them, no one can sue any of their upline or Jackie Hoo or even the big head ghost JP.
So this SE will never be SG or MAS"s problems liao ~ is SE problem but whose head going to cull, guess no head, just a mis-management so too bad, Poof all gone with the wind, SE become sunset empire.
GG! -
Disclaimer: I am tying this Post while watching TV so quite distracted and I realise quite alot of personal views so please do not flame me! :_)Originally posted by laurence82:Tell us also no use
As long as these accounts are not verified or investments sources proven, that is all you can say
And another issue in which you have neglected to address is your fellow agent, like owners of these blogs, have blatantly make one liner unproven statements.
Take the issue to him, not us. Do what is relevant!
laurence82, I really have to take my hat off to you. Please do note that there are people who appreciate your views; in or outside of SE. I am one of them.
Can you explain to me what is verifying an account? I need to do some research.
Here is some potentially disturbing info. When a new client/prospect/customer decides to purchase... say... a SM and GP (Silver Merchant and Gold Prime)... this person doesn't even need to produce his or her NRIC. (Good lord, I hope some BRM or 'big boss' of SE is reading this, and highlight to JH or admin. Things have got to change.) Meaning, any Tom, Dick or Harry can sign up as a fake identity, fake IC, fake age etc. It is only when certain administration requirements like account transferring that NRIC has to be produced. (e.g. today i wish to transfer ownership of my GP account to some one else, then i would have to produce NRIC.)
About the investment sources, SE is truly a shrewd business system. The general public is told that SE does the investments with other corporate units such as the TaiPei and TaiChung wireless city projects. The consumer does not bear the risk of these projects/investments. What is 'more or less promised' is the CRP which is linked to SE's monthly sales. It is the CLP that really makes a Prime sounds like a Ponzi/Pyramid/Money Game.
But what truly disturbs me is that one of the issue that is reported in the press is the CRP, the REAL highlight of a Prime; not the EmCall, not the Mall Points, not the Binary Marketing Plan.
Non of the projects (EmTaiPei, Empire Villa etc) are making profits YET. If they were, SE is under contractual laws to pay out the CLP on top of CRP. The interesting thing is, CRP and CLP is not given a time frame. They are simply given a maximum cap.
Just my 2 cents worth again. Only the CAD can prove that SE's business model is illegal; not the media, not MAS or CASE or M'sia Security Commission. It seems that SE is well prepared for this legally. The IMAF (some call it T & C), the SE Starter Kit, the online agreement; all these are carefully drafted out by SE decision makers and deemed legal by SE's lawyers. Whether CAD can find evidence to prove otherwise, is another story. I can honestly say that heads will roll. I mean, even a BRM can be terminated (by SE, EGA). Okay, you got me. I think IRAS will come in to when the dark clouds settle. They will be literally shouting, "Hey that BRM M with that Transformer Car you achieved, pay your taxes!"
I sincerely hope and appeal to SE, EGA, EmCom to be more transparent in it's finances.
"And another issue in which you have neglected to address is your fellow agent, like owners of these blogs, have blatantly make one liner unproven statements."
The owners of these blogs, some of them I know personally. I can assure you that as far as income is concern, yes, several SEA do make monthly profits of up to 6-digits in SGD. I say profits because as a shrewd SEA, you would maximise your income by clever formation of your marketing team. Those who know the Binary Plan well would understand better what I am getting at. I say profits also because the SEA would have to do personal sales (i.e. incur a loss first) as well. A GP offers 30 BC; it is very useful for 'balancing', multiple repeated income from one source (e.g. up to 4 times of SP 1 and SP 6 and/or 4 times GP Bonus). One single SP 1 is 100 E-points (SGD 160) and SP 6 is 300 E-points (SGD 480) so kindly do the math.
As I have observed in my previous posts, it is a good thing that perhaps JH and his leaders are watching the blogs closely to weed out misinformation. These blogs, they have their own personal business agendas; i.e profit driven goals. (E.g. SE is good. But, do not buy from division XXX or agent XXX. BUY FROM ME. Why? Because I earn more, I have flashy graphics, I have the latest info and I am good in Adobe DreamWeaver! I will misrepresent SE such that the Primes sounds too good to be true. Contact me via my HP, MSN, Skye, FaceBook, ANYTHING! Just buy from me!
) Darn it. That's why the world prefers face to face meet ups! No?
I personally hate to bring this up but here goes.
Despite what is marketed to the world, NTI was a failure. Sure, the binary plan was good. But the core product of aromatherapy, Oxy8 (and let's not even mention the courses!), they do not offer repeated sales potential. What happens? NTI 'forces' the maintainance plan, 30-50 E-points monthly compulsory of ALL AGENTS if you want any form of commission for the next month. The Maintainence money was used to purchase the core products, mind you. (Shrewd ^_^) What happens next? Still no repeated sales. Agents keep buying up BC, try to 'recruit' more agents. Okay, you know where I am getting at. The system cannot go on; at least not in a profitable manner.
In comes Sunshine to save the day with its CRP and Primes and what have you. Finally, long suffering agents really do make profits. And in a weird set of example led by JP himself, agents start to boast their income, cars and even singing prowess. It's a sad irony. On one hand, SEA should tell people how much they earn to be honest, upright etc etc. On the other hand, SEA should not tell to avoid taxes and jealousy.
Alas, another long post, I apologise, I was watching TV and typing this post. Where is the avenue/platform at which suggestions/feedback can be given to SE? Apparently, not many, unless you consider the biased and one sided meetings, small, medium or big. Only a virtual forum such as this, uncensored, ahhh... 90% of free speech. Wonderful! Where else can you find that? Speaker's Corner? -
So many Sunshine Empire videos on You tube .here are some
so funny, one of the video apparently about the member from baby til now drive a BMW blah blah, sing song somemore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TNUFjObhxg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUTfeImGtU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxfgpuFxg5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0W3CqRaoqY -
Observer82, sweet post!
Well anyway, as he said only CAD can justify SE's standing so we all can only wait to see what happens. Thus i've only been reading and not posting
And many of you guys keep pushing for results results, SE has so many asia countries under it in just 12mnths whats more there are actually alot of success testimonies in the company. My dad and my sister's boyfriend for instance is really making alot of money and i mean money where they never dream of making in such a short period of time, which makes SE actually successful already, be it being a successful scam or legit business.
So only time will tell, i plead you guys stop posting childish remarks here and there. It's not gonna help solve anything. -
Simply any verification done by reputable third parties
Can be ACCRA or a reputable auditing firms along the lines of Ernst and Young
Not simply any agent who take down any figures given by their uplines to make one liners which doesnt make any sense
The media did report about Empire Property, but I dont believe MAS has specified its this area they are looking at for their Investor Alert List, therefore, in general, it should be all investments schemes concerned unless otherwise stated
Just too bad the media has exposed the part about the Malaysian and Batam properties
You are wrong to say CAD can declare a scheme illegal. MAS and MSC are regulatory authorities in the financial world and are given the rights to punish any firm flouting the local financial regulations
Its up to the MAS and MSC to dictate whether a company is offering financial schemes, license or unlicensed, rather than mere dismissal by a company. -
May i present Exhibit A of unverified, unaccounted testimonials coupled with reluctance to address issues at hand and heavy reliance onf personal flamingOriginally posted by Zolox777:Observer82, sweet post!
Well anyway, as he said only CAD can justify SE's standing so we all can only wait to see what happens. Thus i've only been reading and not posting
And many of you guys keep pushing for results results, SE has so many asia countries under it in just 12mnths whats more there are actually alot of success testimonies in the company. My dad and my sister's boyfriend for instance is really making alot of money and i mean money where they never dream of making in such a short period of time, which makes SE actually successful already, be it being a successful scam or legit business.
So only time will tell, i plead you guys stop posting childish remarks here and there. It's not gonna help solve anything. -
Originally posted by Zolox777:Observer82, sweet post!
Well anyway, as he said only CAD can justify SE's standing so we all can only wait to see what happens. Thus i've only been reading and not posting
And many of you guys keep pushing for results results, SE has so many asia countries under it in just 12mnths whats more there are actually alot of success testimonies in the company. My dad and my sister's boyfriend for instance is really making alot of money and i mean money where they never dream of making in such a short period of time, which makes SE actually successful already, be it being a successful scam or legit business.
So only time will tell, i plead you guys stop posting childish remarks here and there. It's not gonna help solve anything.
Roti Boi also has lot of Outlets within a year, then perished because of fund mis-management.
If he stand firm like our MM LKY ~
eg. LKY is a scammer, is utterly pointless and no effect on LKY Reputation.
No evidence, no point as well ~
As all we know how good he is, and he will never scam his fellow citizens ~
Any slander that tarnish his reputation will be useless too ~
At best u can get well known on papers and a nice chalet at Changi too ~
So if u said anything we said here is childish or slandering, go get a LAWYER ~
Q us up for a lawsuit then ~
Its all the facts we found fishy, yet we get all the beat around the bush answers ~ -
Any1 know what's a ponzi scheme? Or HYIP for the matter? Anyone knows how it works?Originally posted by Zolox777:....
And many of you guys keep pushing for results results, SE has so many asia countries under it in just 12mnths whats more there are actually alot of success testimonies in the company.
My dad and my sister's boyfriend for instance is really making alot of money and i mean money where they never dream of making in such a short period of time,
which makes SE actually successful already, be it being a successful scam or legit business.
.....
There is no investments in these schemes, its only about playing with the cashflow. Eventually, someone's gonna loss their money, and it's always the late joiners.
Making money doesn't mean its legal, and there is a reason why somebody made it illegal.
Family members may make money now. But this profit that they make is actually from the "investments" of later joiners, not from any real appreciation of value of any product or service.
Have you wondered about the people who's paying you your "returns of investment"? Or do you not care?
Do you buy products from unscrupulous manufacturers who exploit child labour in 3rd world countries? -
Taichung Cantfly (Not earnings) -> Melaka Water Park ( What Water Park) -> Sabah Theme Park ( What Theme Park) -> What Next ???
Oh David Copperfield is in custody now ~
May be Houdini can help ~
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it was quite laughable how Houdini died
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I cannot find anything about the Sabah Theme Parks in Malaysian newspapers.
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if its 'big' should be there right?Originally posted by ^tamago^:I cannot find anything about the Sabah Theme Parks in Malaysian newspapers. -
My google search also yields no results ... Only got articles posted in blogs
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The video you are referring to features a BRM D.Originally posted by snobbish:So many Sunshine Empire videos on You tube .here are some
so funny, one of the video apparently about the member from baby til now drive a BMW blah blah, sing song somemore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUTfeImGtU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxfgpuFxg5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0W3CqRaoqY
Mr D is... I am glad to say, one of the better BRM in SE Singapore. He is in charge of the division JAC. 'JA' simply stands for a division 'founded' by Mr JH. 'C' stands for well, it simply is according to alphabetic order. Under the BIG J divisions are from JAA, JAB... all the way to JAH... JAI... if I remember correctly. JAC is well known for its cohesiveness as a team, strong support network, leadership by example. Not an aggressive network unlike... *censored*
Man! I love to criticize videos on YouTube especially that canadian chap, but that is besides the point.
A little history to share about Mr D. (Hi, Mr D, if you or any of your team is reading this, how's it going? Long time no see? Make it! ^.^ ) Whatever you see in that video is... well... romanticized and edited. It does NOT do a 27 year old business-man justice.
This man has really put in a lot of dedication since day one when he 'joined' NTI as a normal 'agent'. He is the epitome of 'silent leadership'. He has a disarming smile, presents SE in a fair, honest and somewhat humorous manner. He was a former motivational speaker from the Trainer's Club of NTI. Mr JP and Mr JH, I must say are damm lucky to find such a capable man under their wing and tutelage. It would be a shame if due to the poor leadership and poor media relations or PR or whatever you call it (Mr JP and Mr JH, are you reading this!?!), that Mr D's potential is undermined.
Poor thing, when he was 'fighting' (for position) in NTI, each time he hits a new rank, his critics would comment in the likes of, "Aye D! How come only BAM/BEM/BDM? Your downline, YJ, already BRM liao le!"
Ok, enough of history lessons. The video is a poor video. Poor effects. Poor resolution. Who was the singing coach? It fails in it's role to motivate people to strive for their dreams through sheer determination.
He's still a humble chap, no airs whatsoever.
(If you are wondering why the heck the video was even made, well it was a testimonial video shown during his award recognition probably in 2007 International Lions' Rally held in Hall 5 and 6 at Singapore Expo. Some one probably decided to archive it in YouTube for the public's viewing PLEASURE and to torture our eardrums of course. Rejoice video critics!)