Repost: Sunshine Empire
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have to agree. until they are able to prove that their projects exsist(which i seriously doubt it) htere's no way sunshine is able to survive. if they are really 'innocent' why haven't they made a statement on the news paper or call for a press release?
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Originally posted by abductboy:
i don't know how accurate i am in saying this, but from what i observe, SE is like the banker in the EGA structure. companies such as EmCom and Empire Property Venture are in charge of tendering for, securing and executing 'projects' such as the alleged Taichung wireless infrastructure and the M'sian property projects. these companies will also conduct business such as acquisition of listed companies, amongst others.
I just read the TNP article on Sunshine Empire.
It mentioned that Sunshine Empire is not related to the companies like Emcom, Emall or Empire property Venture.
There is something very confusing about the Empire group Alliance (EGA).
Isn't Sunshine Empire a part of EGA? Together with Emall, Emcom, Empire Property Venture?
If they are totally unrelated, then why should Emall gave Sunshine Merchants 10% of their monthly turnover?
Or why should Emcom give Sunshine Merchants free call-back systems.
How come Sunshine Villa is for sale only to Sunshine Empire merchants?
Are there seperate contracts between the Merchants and Emall & Emcom?
The generous monthly payout to Merchants are known as CRP or Consumer Rebate Privileges.
There is another payout known as CLP or Consumer Loyalty Privileges, which is (quoting from the SE Starter Kit) "profits generated from the worldwide effort of our Most valued Prime Status Independent International Merchants."
The CLP is as much as 60,000 epoints, which has not started yet.
What exactly is CLP?
I always thought it is future profits generated from the companies under the EGA, to be payout to Sunshine Merchants.
At least that is what I was introduced to, at the Toa Payoh Macdonald. That the only way to tap into the future growth of EGA is through Sunshine Empire.
In SE News section, there are headlines that seemed to indicate that the activities of the other EGA companies are connected to SE.
[b]Great News! Hoping more valued merchants to get a full comprehension on our development projects in Malacca, we are now moving to Hong Kong International Trade & Exhibition Centre. The poster also showed both SE & EPV logos.
Emcom has also thanked Sunshine Empire in their Sept 2006 newletter:
Quote: We would also like to take this opportunity to express our gratitude for the investments received from Sunshine Empire. The timely investment has allowed for the project to be carried out smoothly. Unquote.
So how does Sunshine does its investments? Is it part of the 'network marketing' strategy?
From this forum a whole list of EGA activities including sensitive information was given out. No Merchant without actual information given to him/her could give such details.
So what is the 60,000 e-points CLP and how is it actually computed? [/b]
Sunshine Empire will provide financing for these projects through the "membership fees" paid by its 20,000 or so members and its other MLM activities. the members i.e. Sunshine Merchants will be rewarded through the profits generated from the successful projects under EmCom and the other EGA companies. this is the 'sleeping partner' type of SE agent.
this was the information i got from my friend when he presented the plan to me earlier this year. also, SE should be part of EGA, this point i'm quite sure.
the business dealings of Emcom and Empire Property Venture etc. are most likely to be lawful and legitimate, which is why only SE is currently being investigated. the only way the other companies can possibly be dragged into this whole saga is if SE's business practices is declared to be unlawful and these companies used the funds provided by SE knowing that the money was obtained through illegal means.
as for the CLP, it's something new to me, but it's consistent with JP's modus operandi of introducing numerous incentives and privileges to keep his 'ka kias' happy. maybe it's to purposely confuse the merchants further with a new program, such that they will spend all their time trying to figure out how to maximise benefits from these incentives rather than question the company's dealings. -
BUT the problem is none of their so called projects can be verified at all... And why do property overseas when you can do property here in Singapore?
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haha that's why i put 'projects' with quotation marks mah
and if they're unable to verify the existence of their projects, then hopefully the law will step in to do something. -
I am not sure if the activities of Emcom and Empire Property can be considered lawful and legitimateOriginally posted by sponge:the business dealings of Emcom and Empire Property Venture etc. are most likely to be lawful and legitimate, which is why only SE is currently being investigated. the only way the other companies can possibly be dragged into this whole saga is if SE's business practices is declared to be unlawful and these companies used the funds provided by SE knowing that the money was obtained through illegal means.
if
a) there has never been any projects in the pipeline at all
b) it's determined that they colluded with SE to con investors in order to raise funds for non-existing projects
Not forgetting about whether they are really affliates or subsidiaries of a family of entities, but then it doesnt matter much for now -
abductboy what u mean by sensitive, from that forum, there isnt anything
sensitive information, they juz quote figures and pull numbers out of the air. i dont see any p/l statement balance sheet, company financial information audited by 3rd party being given out by them. some1 in some forum mention b4 that since that company is ptd ltd, it is "private", they are not oblige to give out information. anyway, as the newspaper have say, all the projects cant be verified -
all this coy maybe cr8 juz to trick the agents, creating multiple company to sustain their claim. looking at the register directors, their name belong to 1 big family
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To redstone, sponge:
I am sure their projects did existed. but not to the scale they touted to be.
In 2006, my friend who attended the talk was almost tempted to join because they mooted the Taiwan project to be HUGE when completed.
The focus was shifted to Emall and anyone mentioning that Taiwan project will be issued with a President message that still existed in their newspage document titled INVESTMENT IN A TAIWAN PROJECT that says..
"The Taiwan Project is only one current example that you may use to illustrate the quality of the CompanyÂ’s other investments. It is not the Company core business nor what the new distributor is participating in."
But I guess Merchants are confused as perhaps SE from time to time uses its new investments to attract new sign-ups. Here is 1 example titled APPLICATION FOR TAIPEI PHASE 1 PROMOTION that is still on SE Newspage 16.
To Xdrave:
It's considered 'sensitive' because I have read the same info on many blogs, and the figures if faked, could very well see that guy/girl being sued by SE for more than a apology in the papers.
Sponge.. you saidthe business dealings of Emcom and Empire Property Venture etc. are most likely to be lawful and legitimate, which is why only SE is currently being investigated. the only way the other companies can possibly be dragged into this whole saga is if SE's business practices is declared to be unlawful and these companies used the funds provided by SE knowing that the money was obtained through illegal means.
The news have clearly stated that "It attracted the authorities' interest as its activities appear to be akin to that of a pure investment scheme, for which it is not licensed."
So is SE doing investments? Is a Network Marketing Company allowed to...
(Quoting from INVESTMENT IN A TAIWAN PROJECT)
"....provide the rebates and bonuses to the Distributors because the Company has an active program of reinvesting the profits generated from its direct selling business into other projects in order to generate returns."
That must be crux of CAD investigation.
We have to wait, however impatiently. -
If there is one government agency that you shouldn't mess with, it's CAD.
If CAD is on your tail, you're as good as gone. These guys are one of the best in the business. -
Basic logic tells you that if 10 people you ask doesn't know that thing exists, and only 1 person keeps on telling that it does, most probably it doesn't exist.
We'll see how "united" Sunshine is. Once that Phang goes to jail, see how many of his sons and slaves follow him in. "FATHER!!! We'll be with u always!!! We love u!!!" -
the projects investigated by the NewsPaper clearly stated that the projects claimed by SE didnot exist however, newpaper dont hold much water compare to ST. I dont see why that guy need to apologize because all he did is releasing information that two of his director is getting awards. Even the organiser themselves say that and after knowing what happen, they pull out the award. the guy apologizing on ST is juz a publicity stunt. nthing much.
What u mean by sueing the people releasing false information, if like that, me lau, red, and majority of the ppl here go court liao lor. I dont mind actually cuz can use as excuse to skip exam
if you been reading the news and CAD FAQs, it not whether MLM company can conduct business, it is to check if they are conducting ponzi scheme and the way they do business. by submitting themselves to MAS check, everything will be out in the open where financial statement has to be released for potential investors. However, no matter how positive 1 can be, all public information released has not been good for SE and the rest, dont need to check also know its fake liao. but still, need to wait for investigation lor. normally, they move in becuz they have the evidence they need liao and now only need to backup their proof, that why they announce it to the media. hope this helps -
I found this great Network Marketing website:
http://www.network-marketing-works.com/whatisit.htm
It states all the various components of MLM as what SE is doing as well.... xcept for that 'investment' bit... -
i really hate repeating myself or rebutting the points again and again haiz.........juz say read the news and judge for urself
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If the authorities in the two countries have specifically stated that no such projects exist or licensing have been issued, why would anyone want to talk about the scale of the projects?
Unfortunately, the MLM Act did not define the scope of products and services that a MLM company can provide, but investment schemes is under the regulation of MAS. If the MAS define a scheme to be financial in nature, and that its unlicensed, who is to argue against them? -
You misunderstood me.Originally posted by xdrave:the projects investigated by the NewsPaper clearly stated that the projects claimed by SE didnot exist however, newpaper dont hold much water compare to ST. I dont see why that guy need to apologize because all he did is releasing information that two of his director is getting awards. Even the organiser themselves say that and after knowing what happen, they pull out the award. the guy apologizing on ST is juz a publicity stunt. nthing much.
What u mean by sueing the people releasing false information, if like that, me lau, red, and majority of the ppl here go court liao lor. I dont mind actually cuz can use as excuse to skip exam if you been reading the news and CAD FAQs, it not whether MLM company can conduct business, it is to check if they are conducting ponzi scheme and the way they do business. by submitting themselves to MAS check, everything will be out in the open where financial statement has to be released for potential investors. However, no matter how positive 1 can be, all public information released has not been good for SE and the rest, dont need to check also know its fake liao. but still, need to wait for investigation lor. normally, they move in becuz they have the evidence they need liao and now only need to backup their proof, that why they announce it to the media. hope this helps
I mean the Poster in the other Forum was able to quote things that you, me will not be able to say..
It 's a long quote but here's goes:
1st update: Sunshine Empire
1. Our turnover for Aug 2007 was USD 80 million with a total of 10,547 GPs being sold. Comparing to the sales we had when we first started in Aug 2006 which is USD 1.3 million, this is an amazing increase of 6,100% or an average increase of 500% per month. We have already created history where no other network marketing company had even come close to our sensational result in their first year of operation!
2. Our global presence in the region includes Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, Hong Kong, China and Thailand and now we have started our operations in Korea. Also we are in the midst of preparation for Taiwan,Philippines. !
3. We have also recently acquired a network marketing company in KL called 99 Network. The company have officially merged with us on 9 Sep 2007 to become the new Empire 99.
4. Currently, we are renovating our offices in Beijing, Taiwan, Manila and Kuala Lumpur.
5. Lastest news is we have bought a piece of land near Paya Lebar/Eunos area to build our very owned Singapore Empire Tower. More details will be released so keep a look out.
6. Our total office space is more than 160,000 sq feet and renovation costs is more than USD 5 million. If we include deposits, infrastructure costs and furnishing, we have already spent more than USD 10 million in office space.
2nd Update: Empire Property Venture
1. Currently, we have 3 projects worth a total of USD 200 million.
a. Empire State Tower (KLCC)
b. Empire Magic Kingdom (Sabah) ~ 200 hectares
c. Empire Sunshine Villa (MAlacca) ~ 210 hectares (RM 400 million to build)
2. We are now in the negotiation process of buying over a listed company but as it is still not confirm, no news is release yet.
3rd Update: eMall Empire / EmWealth Asia Pacific
1. Currently has a technical team of 70 IT professionals and staffs.
2. We will have a new 50,000 sq feet office in Shen Zhen Technological Park. Together with Micosoft, we are the 2 largest tenants in the Tech Park and in fact our office is bigger than Microsoft.
3. By mid 2008, we will increase our technical team to 400 IT professionals and staffs.
4. The new enhancement to the platform is video viewing which allows consumers to watch videos on their interested products and services before buying.
4th Update: Empire Communication Technology
1. Currently we have 7 business units.
a. China Photar Limited (HK) ~ A HK GEM Board listed company recently bought over and it is currently trading between HKD$0.35 to HKD$0.42 with a market cap. more than USD 100 million. It is specializing in DVD players, fax machines, mobile phones and Home Theatre Systems with 10,000 distribution points throughout China. This is in line with EmCom rolling out our own brand of electronics products in the market.
b. EmTaichung ~ Construction to be completed by end Oct 2007 and we are in the process of signing business agreements with providers in Taipei and Kaoshiung to provide WIMAX services for the whole of Taiwan. Expected date to start collecting revenue and generating profits is Feb 2008.
c. EmCambodia ~ We have already gotten a combined license for VOIP/ISP/WIFI in Cambodia for 35 years. Our first calling card services to be rolled out by Oct 2007. ISP services is scheduled to begin by Feb 2008 and we are currently working to obtain GSM license as well in Cambodia.
d. EmBeyond ~ Currently more than 20 IT professionals and staffs and is expected to increase by more than 15 staff by Dec 2007. Clients include Fujitsu Asia Pte Ltd, Exxon Mobil, Shell, Prosafe Production Pte Ltd and licensed partners for leading companies like Microsoft, IBM and HP. The expected turnover to hit USD 10 million from 2007 - 2008 with more than USD 1.5 million in net profit.
e. Intervoice Media Inc. ~ This is a voice solutions provider in the Asia Pacific region, namely Singapore, Philippines and Indonesia. Currently working to build a 100 seater Call Centre in the next 6 - 8 months. We are now also working to collaborate on Government projects to provide Call Centre services to more than 20 cities in Philippines. We will also seek to obtain full telco license in Philippines in the final stage of negotiation.
f. EmCall ~ Current usage is about 180,000 mins per day and this is expected to increase to about 250,000 mins per day in 2 months' time. Call Centre and Customer Service Centre to be fully functional with 6 full time staff to handle all customers' issues by Oct 2007. The trial of 1-step dialing services to be completed by Oct 2007 and to start offering to EmCall users by Nov 2007. Callback services to be fully functional in Malaysia by Oct 2007.
g. Empire Communication Technology Pte Ltd ~ Current Net Asset Value (NAV) is about USD 80 million. The revenue for 2007 is USD 30 million and projected profit is about USD 15 million. Our current action plans for EmCom until the end of 2007 are as follow:
i) We are in the final stages of agreement to form a joint-venture with T2Free, a Taiwan integrated voice provider, to roll out VOIP and Callback services in China, Hong Kong and Taiwan.
ii) In the final stages of obtaining inbound remittance license in Philippines.
iii) In the process of obtaining MVNO licenses in Singapore, and Indonesia to provide GSM subscription lines to our members.
iv) In the process of obtaining WIMAX license in Indonesia.
v) We are also beginning to do due diligence studies on obtaining full telco licenses in Vietnam and Thailand.
5th Update: Empire Capital
1. A leading finance company in Asia Pacific with the following subsidaries:
a. Empire Global Finance (HK) Pte Ltd ~ Provides secured and unsecured loans in Hong Kong and China and expected to start the trial services in Nov 2007. One great news is that they will also do preferential unsecured lending for Sunshine members to buy GPs. Expected to have a credit line of more than USD 20 million by Feb 2008 and projected lending volume to reach min. USD 100 million by end 2008 and USD 200 million by end 2009.
b. Empire Insurance ~ To provide insurance solutions such as motor, travel, term, health, life and retirement. Estimated revenue to hit USD 50 million by end 2008 with more than USD 15 million in profit and the operations is expected to start by end 2007.
c. Empire Investments ~ To build a strong asset management in areas of hedge funds, mutual funds and venture capital funds and operations to begin in mid 2008.
2. Estimated turnover is USD 2 billion with a profit margin of USD 400 million over the next 3 years.
6th Update: Empire Energy
1. Empire Bio-fuels ~ To be involved in Bio-fuels and Bio-diesel industries. We are in the production of Bio-diesel using palm oil and algae oil and are in the process of tying up with leading governments and universities in the United States and India to set up R & D in Bio-diesel. Operations to begin in Oct 2007.
7th Update: Health & Beauty Empire
1. This company specializes in beauty care, health care, spa and integrated holistic wellness lifestyle. We are expanding our operations rapidly through mergers and acquisitions and our objective is to penetrate into the 1.3 billion China market.
8th Update: Time Media
1. We have now a 10% stake in a media company which is currently worth USD 1 billion. This helps us to operate a Home Shopping Channel and complements our eMall Empire operations. We are estimated to go for IPO in 24 months.
Now these info would be something we wouldn't post unless we have been given the information.
If they are false, then the Poster nicked sunempire will be in deep trouble, wouldn't ihe/she?
What we are doing is not giving such information, but rather discusssion and critical analysis of what is happening. It is 2 different issues. -
hmmmm when i said their business dealings were most likely to be lawful and legitimate, i was giving them the benefit of the doubt i.e. assuming that some of these projects did exist, then on the face of matters, these dealings would be lawful to the extent that they know that the money given to them for funding was unlawful.Originally posted by laurence82:I am not sure if the activities of Emcom and Empire Property can be considered lawful and legitimate
if
a) there has never been any projects in the pipeline at all
b) it's determined that they colluded with SE to con investors in order to raise funds for non-existing projects
Not forgetting about whether they are really affliates or subsidiaries of a family of entities, but then it doesnt matter much for now
i remember reading on the MMG forum that EGA has engaged / are engaging in numerous business deals. surely, some of these are really being implemented? of course, i also doubt that many of their bigger projects do actually exist. for us to say that EGA has not been involved in ANY of the projects it has claimed to be, will be making a pretty bold statement.
to abductboy, SE has attracted the attention of the authorities because the business it is engaging does not appear to be network marketing in its legal form under the MLM Act. Rather, it appears to be getting the layman on the street to deposit their money in a company which then invests this deposited money in other businesses i.e. the 'pure investment scheme' which you read on the papers. such businesses are governed by the Finance Companies Act, which requires a licence be given by the MAS, as stated by laurence82 above.
another way in which SE could have breached the law would be to contravene the MLM Act. the MLM Act prohibits businesses which confers any benefit in the form of dividend or payment to a person who recruits or acquires one or more additional participants to the scheme. -
Nice summary sponge.
I have been stressing on that for months. Yet no one is bothered.
Edit: Take note that the T&C by SE covers themselves. Point 10 covers them well. However, it is the onus of the company to ensure that the distributors are not making the company having a brush with the company. Thus I think they may plead ignorance on this. -
My apologies to Redstone, Xdrave and laurence82,
My little online search could not confirm if the Taiwan project really do exist.
Although I do remember reading all all those test-runs, etc.
The emcom website is down.... so no information 'from the horse's mouth' is available.
About the Malaysia properties project, in the Empire Property news page , besides all the Malaysia papers news, they even got a message from the Chief Minister of Melaka, complete with the Melaka State logo.
http://www.empirepropertyventure.com/newspaper/msg_malakaCM.pdf
The properties of the pdf document showed it was created from a Word Document dated 12 Nov 07 by Empire Worldwide S/D.
The signature looked 'pasted'.
Perhaps someone living in Malacca could go down to the CM Office with the letter and asked if the letter is authentic.
Btw, is it illegal in Malaysia to alter the form of the layout of an official document? -
Put it simply
With the authorities denying that any mandate been given for any project, and on the other hand these people have 'documents' that show that they were allowed to build these infrastructures with the support of the local government...
What can we say?
Either the local governments are lying or in confusion, or that a series of very serious misrepresentations have been committed -
How come adviser JP is the one signing the cheques NOT the owner JH
Originally posted by kyoshirou77: -
Well, not all the time, so far the father or guru is roaming FREE for many years. Also CAD is not able to do any to anther scam in Singapore.
]http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=288757
[quote]Originally posted by LazerLordz:
If there is one government agency that you shouldn't mess with, it's CAD.
If CAD is on your tail, you're as good as gone. These guys are one of the best in the business.[/quote -
anyone in the company that is declared as the authorized signatory can sign company cheque.Originally posted by scarborough:How come adviser JP is the one signing the cheques NOT the owner JH -
which means this person also have some part in the management or decision making in the companyOriginally posted by airgrinder:anyone in the company that is declared as the authorized signatory can sign company cheque.
which leads to....... -
I agree, overlook this point. However, The "Owner" is able to sign the cheque too, even if he has 'authorised" JP to be signatory, unless the real owner is not JH, and you guess Hoo leh??Originally posted by airgrinder:anyone in the company that is declared as the authorized signatory can sign company cheque.
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I just read this news from a Poster wjsim from theLocalking forum.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2007/07/27/2003371427
Seemed there was no Taiwan Wireless project.
WiMAX licenses awarded
By Shelley Shan
STAFF REPORTER
Friday, Jul 27, 2007, Page 1
The National Communications Commission (NCC) awarded Worldwide Interoperability for Microwave Access (WiMAX) licenses yesterday to Far EasTone Telecommunications Co (ßh‚÷ëŠ�Å) and five other service providers.
The license will allow each company to offer WiMAX services for six years, with the possibility of renewal.
Chunghwa Telecom (Ö�ÈAëŠ�Å) and Taiwan Mobile Co's (̨ž³´ó¸ç´ó) Taiwan Digital Communications Corp (̨�Å“º�ëŠÓ�) failed in their bids.
"We will seek a nationwide license during the 2009 auction," Chunghwa spokesman Chang Feng-hsiung (�ˆØS�Û) said by telephone. "Before then, we do not rule out the possibility of forming a strategic alliance or cooperating with interested WiMAX winners."
Taiwan Mobile said it was not in a hurry to jump into the business, adding that no telecom company in the world had begun operating WiMAX commercially.
With a promise to pay 12.89 percent of its annual revenue for the right to provide a WiMAX service, First International Telecom Corp (´ó±ŠëŠ�Å) placed the highest bid.
The licenses were awarded after the NCC deliberated for approximately one-and-a-half hours yesterday morning.
NCC spokesperson Howard Shyr (ʯÊÀºÀ) said that based on requirements, new license owners could only obtain the licenses after paying a deposit of NT$40 million (US$1.2 million) and NT$210 million as a downpayment for using the radio spectrum. Payments are expected within 30 days after receiving official notice from NCC.
He said operators had 18 months to build their infrastructure, adding that it would only grant one, one-year extension if necessary.
Meanwhile, companies were given three months to raise the necessary capital, with a three-month extension available on request.
First International was the first company to obtain a license to operate in the north, while Vastar Cable TV System Corp (�þß_Ó�¾€ëŠÒ•) won the first license for the south by offering 8.69 percent of annual revenue.
Licenses for the north were also awarded to Global On Corp („“Ò»�¶ÙY) and a joint venture of Vibo Telecom Inc (�þŒšëŠ�Å) and Tecom Co (–|Ó�).
They offered 6.19 percent and 5.2 percent, respectively.
Licenses for the south were given to Far EasTone and Tatung Co (´ó�¬). Each has promised to pay 4.18 percent and 7.25 percent of their revenues respectively.
Far EasTone, the nation's second-biggest mobile company, said it was highly confident about the development of the broadband market in the south.
Teddy Huang (üSÌؖm), a representative of the Vibo-Tecom joint venture, said his team was satisfied with the results, adding that the venture would cooperate with license owners in the south to offer the WiMAX service nationwide.
Vastar said it was honored to be the first cable TV service provider to acquire a license.
It said it would start building its infrastructure in Taichung, Tainan and Kaohsiung and hoped to start operating next year.
Jason Lin (�Öһƽ), a professor at National Chiao Tung University, said these operators would likely start making profits in about three years.
"My estimate is that they will become profitable right before their licenses expire," he said.
additional reporting by Lisa Wang
This is stupid. So the part earlier cited by SE Poster
b. EmTaichung ~ Construction to be completed by end Oct 2007 and we are in the process of signing business agreements with providers in Taipei and Kaoshiung to provide WIMAX services for the whole of Taiwan. Expected date to start collecting revenue and generating profits is Feb 2008.
is bull!
