Eckhart Tolle's books - The Power of Now, A New Earth, & ...
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Originally posted by longchen:
Hi Thusness,
The way you write really ' yi zhen jian xue' (hit the target on the bull's eye)
Sexual desire is one aspect that i really hope to resolve eventually. I will honestly say that it is quite a problem for me. If anybody want to judge me for that is really their own problem..but it is really a problem for me.
Contrary to popular notion, sexual desire actually increase with spiritual development. This is due to the body becoming more energised. Especially if one practice something like qi qong, the full qi will enhance desire and seek to find a release.
The 'sense of self' fighting with the desire never really work. The solution, i feel lies with the dropping of the conscious portion in day to day interactions. But first one must 'enter' non-dual, and continue to 'drop' in all environments and situations. I have experience of the desire dissolving due to this dropping and i think this is the solution. I really hope to resolve this aspect soon. It does take a lot of practice and the willingness to 'enter' into more deconstructed 'level' even amidst interaction with the environment.
At times now, experiences feels like rising and falling waves. The grasping/contracting sensation rise and if it does get caught up into deep engagement, it falls off on it own accord. I don't think this is self-liberation yet... but i hope it is getting closer!!
Just a sharing.
in tibetan buddhism it do involves a bit sexualities.As it is commonly know 男女�修，欢喜佛。this tantra thing also part of buddhism ,it's quite popular in western,as they draw the part they most comfortable with.
In taoism there are lot of things about sexualties ,in chinese it's called 房ä¸æœ¯ã€‚technique in bedroom.
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Originally posted by rokkie:
in tibetan buddhism it do involves a bit sexualities.As it is commonly know 男女�修，欢喜佛。this tantra thing also part of buddhism ,it's quite popular in western,as they draw the part they most comfortable with.
In taoism there are lot of things about sexualties ,in chinese it's called 房ä¸æœ¯ã€‚technique in bedroom.
Though I'm not a tantric practitioner, the practice of Tantra is not about techniques to enhance sex but to transform passion into wisdom.
I won't comment on this practice because as I said I don't practice tantric. You may find out more from reliable websites on vajrayana tantra.
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Originally posted by JonLS:
Hi AEN,
What's interesting about spiritual awakening is that's it's simply another aspect of the dream.
Who is it who can awaken?
Does anything really need to change from the way things are now?
If you could no longer think and interpret what you see in the world, what would that be like?
The world will be... without you. As it always has been.
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Originally posted by longchen:
Hi Thusness,
The way you write really ' yi zhen jian xue' (hit the target on the bull's eye)
Sexual desire is one aspect that i really hope to resolve eventually. I will honestly say that it is quite a problem for me. If anybody want to judge me for that is really their own problem..but it is really a problem for me.
Contrary to popular notion, sexual desire actually increase with spiritual development. This is due to the body becoming more energised. Especially if one practice something like qi qong, the full qi will enhance desire and seek to find a release.
The 'sense of self' fighting with the desire never really work. The solution, i feel lies with the dropping of the conscious portion in day to day interactions. But first one must 'enter' non-dual, and continue to 'drop' in all environments and situations. I have experience of the desire dissolving due to this dropping and i think this is the solution. I really hope to resolve this aspect soon. It does take a lot of practice and the willingness to 'enter' into more deconstructed 'level' even amidst interaction with the environment.
At times now, experiences feels like rising and falling waves. The grasping/contracting sensation rise and if it does get caught up into deep engagement, it falls off on it own accord. I don't think this is self-liberation yet... but i hope it is getting closer!!
Just a sharing.
Reminds me of an old post by Thusness one and a half years ago:
http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/225462
...It is a matter of how deep the experience of non-dual has penetrated into our consciousness. At the coarser level of non-dual experience, we will only be able to experience it at the conscious level but not at the pre-conscious level. That is, the ‘Self’ consciousness does not surface that frequently and there are gaps in between experiences but the stronger afflictions are still there. The afflicted consciousness is the habitual propensities of ‘self’ that is deeply rooted and works at the pre-conscious level. The experience of non-duality will not be able to overcome and eliminate these stronger afflictions until we have habituated ourselves to this understanding at the deeper level of our consciousness.
At this juncture, a practitioner will experience the first 4 factors of enlightenment quite clearly, that is, there will be mindfulness, investigative, joy and rapture but tranquility, concentration and equanimity isnÂ’t strong yet. The first 4 factors will result a sense of radiance bright, lightness, free, clear, vivid and energetic feeling but the settledness, sereneness and calmness will not be that obviously felt. It is here where one will experience the dark night of what Dharma Dan described. Contrary to what that is being thought, one may even feel more lustful due to the new found energy. But somehow the non-dual experience also has the strength to pull us back from falling further (you may experienced it in some synchronic events that serve as reminders) and eventually lead us to the experience of equanimity. You may want to find out whyÂ…?
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Originally posted by rokkie:
in tibetan buddhism it do involves a bit sexualities.As it is commonly know 男女�修，欢喜佛。this tantra thing also part of buddhism ,it's quite popular in western,as they draw the part they most comfortable with.
In taoism there are lot of things about sexualties ,in chinese it's called 房ä¸æœ¯ã€‚technique in bedroom.
Hi, just like to post some excerpts regarding tibetan buddhism written by Zen Master Sheng yan in å¦ä½›ç¾¤ç–‘ （ 144 项， 密教是什么？）
‘- 密教ä¸�是释迦世尊所说，而是[ æ ¹æ�®å¯†æ•™çš„ä¼ è¯´] 直接由法身佛所说。’
‘但从 佛教的历å�²çœ‹ï¼Œå¯†æ•™çš„èµ·æº�是å�°åº¦çš„民间信仰，最å�Žå�‘展æˆ�密教或密乘，则属于å�°åº¦æ™šæœŸå¤§ä¹˜çš„事。它以佛教大乘æ€�想的ç�†è®ºä¸ºåŸºç¡€å’Œæ ¹æœ¬ï¼Œå¼•è¿›äº†å�°åº¦æ•™çš„观念和修法。
密教å�¯åˆ†ä¸ºæ�‚å¯†ï¼Œäº‹å¯†ï¼Œç‘œä¼½å¯†å’Œæ— ä¸Šç‘œä¼½å¯†ã€‚æ�‚密类似民间信仰，事密已ç»�æœ‰ç»„ç»‡åŒ–ï¼Œç‘œä¼½å¯†è·Ÿç¦…å®šç›¸åº”ï¼Œæ— ä¸Šç‘œä¼½æ˜¯è·Ÿå½“æ—¶å�°åº¦æ•™çš„性力派结å�ˆè€Œå®Œæˆ�。所谓性力，å�³æ˜¯ä»¥ç”·å¥³æ€§çš„交媾，两性å�Œèº«å�Œä¿®ï¼Œæˆ�为方便和智慧的圆满集æˆ�，以女性代表智慧，以男性代表方便。这ç§�æ€�想和ä¸å›½é�“家的房ä¸æœ¯ï¼Œå�ˆå��å¾¡å¥³æœ¯æ˜¯ä¸€æ ·çš„ï¼Œä¸�æ˜¯æ ¹æœ¬ä½›æ•™çš„ä¿®è¡Œæ–¹æ³•ã€‚
ä½›æ•™ä»¥ç¦»æ¬²ä¸ºæ ¹æœ¬ï¼Œæ— ä¸Šç‘œä¼½å�´è¦�é€�过淫欲的事实以达解脱的目的。所以，å�Žæ�¥è¥¿è—�çš„é»„æ•™æ•™ç¥–å®—å®¢å·´ï¼ŒåŠ ä»¥æ”¹é�©ï¼Œäºˆä»¥åºŸé™¤ï¼Œç¦�æ¢ä»¥ç”·å¥³çš„性交行为作为修行的方法，但其他å�„æ´¾ä¾�旧采用， 他们为了所谓å�ˆç�†åŒ–，必须先练气，脉，明点，然å�Žæ‰�能实施所谓å�Œä¿®çš„法门。‘
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Futher more, cont fr the same topic in this book:
' 密教是以当时的å�°åº¦çš„时代背景和å�Žæ�¥çš„西è—�环境而形æˆ�的，我们ä¸�能说西è—�的密教ä¸�æ˜¯ä½›æ•™ï¼Œé™¤äº†æ— ä¸Šç‘œä¼½çš„è¿™éƒ¨åˆ†ï¼Œä»–ä»¬çš„æ•™ç�†å’Œè¡Œæ³•ï¼Œç»„织严密，层次分明，特别是在教ç�†æ–¹é�¢ï¼Œä»¥ä¸è§‚ä¸ºæ ¹æœ¬ï¼Œä»¥ç‘œä¼½ä¸ºè¡¥ä½�。这是ä¸å›½ä½›æ•™æ‰€æœªè§�的，他们对僧人的è®ç»ƒå’Œæ•™è‚²ï¼Œä¹Ÿæž�å…¶ä¸¥æ ¼è€Œå�ˆç³»ç»ŸåŒ–，层次化，所以有å�šå®šçš„信心和一定的法门。但在蒙è—�地区，称为活佛的，也未必定有修è‰å�Šå¦é—®ã€‚’
，
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...and continue fr above same book...
' 上边已ç»�说过，以男女性行为å�šä¸ºä¿®æŒ�的法门，ä¸�是佛法，é�žæ¸…净法，对我们的社会而言，也是一ç§�应该ç¦�æ¢çš„事。
所以自å�¤é�“家修房ä¸æœ¯ï¼Œå¿…有房外的护法，必须财力与势力兼具之人，æ‰�能å�šåˆ°ï¼Œæ™®é€šçš„é�“士，没有这个力é‡�，å�¦åˆ™æ·«ä¹±æ‰€è‡³ï¼Œå�´é�žç¤¾ä¼šä¹‹ç¦�。
虽然他们修æŒ�者本身，ä¸�以æ¤ä¸ºæ·«ä¹±ï¼Œè€Œæ˜¯è¾¾åˆ°èº«å¿ƒç»Ÿä¸€ï¼Œå†…外统一，男女界é™�为统一的目的，ä¸�是为了满足性的快ä¹�和享å�—ï¼› 但在ä¸å›½ï¼Œå§‹ç»ˆæ²¡æœ‰å°†ä¹‹å½“作æ£å¤§å…‰æ˜Žçš„一ç§�ä¿®æŒ�方法。而所谓统一也å�ªæ˜¯æš‚时的统一，属于一ç§�忘å�»å°�我自我ä¸å¿ƒçš„情况，并没有达到æ–除烦æ�¼çš„程度，当然没有解脱，更没有æˆ�佛。‘
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BTW longchen are you experiencing the "dark night"?
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Regarding lust, dharma dan says energetic and powerful openings, kundalini, lust, sexual and spiritual dreams, ecstasy, intense clarity, visions of bright lights, fine shaking, decreased sleep needs, sexual issues/energy arising, and so on are all characters of the A&P (arising and passing event) a.k.a the "4th nana" as described by Dharma Dan and the Visudhimagga. A practitioner tends to cycle through these Nanas throughout their daily experience.
I have glimpses of the A&P event but haven't experienced 'lust' yet. But I have heard other practitioners who described experiencing lust due to their practice.
p.s. dharma dan has come up with the third edition of his e-book -- http://www.interactivebuddha.com/mctb.shtml
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Originally posted by Isis:
My favourite abstract so far are:
Words no matter whether they are vocalized and made into sounds or remain unspoken as thoughts, can cast almost hypnotic spell upon you. You can easily lose yourself in them, become hypnotized into implicity believing that when u have attached a word to something, you know what it is. The fact is that
you don't know what it is. You have only covered up the mystery with a label. Everything,a bird, a tree, even a simple stone, and certainly a human being is ultimately unknowable. This is becos it has unfathomable depth. All we can perceive, experience, think about is the surface layer of reality, less than the tip of an iceberg.
These are also good:
CAN YOU HEAR THE MOUNTAIN STREAM?
A Zen Master was walking in silence with one of his disciples along a mountain trail. When they came to an ancient cedar tree, they sat down under it for a simple meal of some rice and vegetables. After the meal, the disciple, a young monk who had not yet found the key to the mystery of Zen, broke the silence by asking the Master, "Master, how do I enter Zen?"
He was, of course, inquiring how to enter the state of consciousness which is Zen.
The Master remained silent. Almost five minutes passed while the disciple anxiously waited for an answer. He was about to ask another question when the Master suddenly spoke. "Do you hear the sound of that mountain stream?"
The disciple had not been aware of any mountain stream. He had been too busy thinking about the meaning of Zen. Now as he began to listen for the sound, his noisy mind subsided. At first he heard nothing. Then, his thinking gave way to heightened alertness, and suddenly he did hear the hardly perceptible murmur of a small stream in the far distance.
"Yes, I can hear it now," he said.
The master raised his finger and, with a look in his eyes that in some way was both fierce and gentle, said, "Enter Zen from there."
The disciple was stunned. It was his first satori--a flash of enlightenment. He knew what Zen was without knowing what it was that he knew!
They continued on their journey in silence. The disciple was amazed at the aliveness of the world around him. He experienced everything as if for the first time. Gradually, however, he started thinking again. The alert stillness became covered up again by mental noise, and before long he had another question. "Master," he said, "I have been thinking. What would you have said if I hadn't been able to hear the mountain stream?" The master stopped, looked at him, raised his finger and said, "Enter Zen from there."
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NOTICING THE GAPS
Throughout the day, there is a continuously changing succession of things that you see and hear. In the first moment of seeing something or hearing a sound--and more so if it is unfamiliar--before the mind names or interprets what your see or hear, there is usually a gap of alert attention in which the perception occurs. That is the inner space. Its duration differs from person to person. It is easy to miss because in many people those spaces are extremely short, perhaps only a second or less.
This is what happens: A new sight or sound arises, and in the first moment of perception, there is a brief cessation in the habitual stream of thinking. Consciousness is diverted away form thought because it is required for sense perception. A very unusual sight or sound may leave you "speechless"--even inside, that is to say, bring about a longer gap.
The frequency and duration of those spaces determine your ability to enjoy life, to feel an inner connectedness with other human beings as well as nature. It also determines the degree to which you are free of ego because ego implies complete unawareness of the dimension of space.
When you become conscious of these brief spaces they happen naturally, they will lengthen, and as they do, you will experience with increasing frequency the joy of perceiving with little or no interference of thinking. The world around you then feels fresh, new, and alive. The more you perceive life through a mental screen of abstraction and conceptualization, the more lifeless and flat the world around you becomes.
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Over the past few years, I have countless unpleasant experiences.... eg wife go for surgery, i lost more than $10K in a go,, got robbed at gun point overseas, contracted unexpected sicknesses, encounter demonic interferences, extremely busy work schedule and many things that i didn't even bother to remember.
Are these considered as 'dark nights'? I do not really understand the definition of the dark night, but i do know that all these experience loosens the bond to the egoic mind.
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I see... I have not experienced dark night so I don't know.
A summarised table of short descriptions of the 16 nanas can be found at http://www.interactivebuddha.com/Nanas%20and%20jhanas%20table.doc
An indepth description of the dark nights can be found at http://web.mac.com/danielmingram/iWeb/Daniel%20Ingram%27s%20Dharma%20Blog/The%20Blook/740E1DCD-75A5-4859-8530-13214BE1BA33.html
More info on A&P at http://www.interactivebuddha.com/faq.shtml
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Thanks for the links. But i no longer am really interested in verifying the experiences.
Once you reach non-dual for quite a while, mental analysis doesn't really appeal that much.
I hope you have a nice trip to China :)
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Originally posted by longchen:
Thanks for the links. But i no longer am really interested in verifying the experiences.
Once you reach non-dual for quite a while, mental analysis doesn't really appeal that much.
I hope you have a nice trip to China :)
I see..
Yea quite a nice trip :) thanks
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BTW... This June i might be go back to teach for a month... as an adjunct lecturer. See you then :)
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Originally posted by longchen:
BTW... This June i might be go back to teach for a month... as an adjunct lecturer. See you then :)
Oh wow.. that's nice! Will be looking forward to meeting you
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Originally posted by cycle:
...and continue fr above same book...
' 上边已ç»�说过，以男女性行为å�šä¸ºä¿®æŒ�的法门，ä¸�是佛法，é�žæ¸…净法，对我们的社会而言，也是一ç§�应该ç¦�æ¢çš„事。
所以自å�¤é�“家修房ä¸æœ¯ï¼Œå¿…有房外的护法，必须财力与势力兼具之人，æ‰�能å�šåˆ°ï¼Œæ™®é€šçš„é�“士，没有这个力é‡�，å�¦åˆ™æ·«ä¹±æ‰€è‡³ï¼Œå�´é�žç¤¾ä¼šä¹‹ç¦�。
虽然他们修æŒ�者本身，ä¸�以æ¤ä¸ºæ·«ä¹±ï¼Œè€Œæ˜¯è¾¾åˆ°èº«å¿ƒç»Ÿä¸€ï¼Œå†…外统一，男女界é™�为统一的目的，ä¸�是为了满足性的快ä¹�和享å�—；但在ä¸å›½ï¼Œå§‹ç»ˆæ²¡æœ‰å°†ä¹‹å½“作æ£å¤§å…‰æ˜Žçš„一ç§�ä¿®æŒ�方法。而所谓统一也å�ªæ˜¯æš‚时的统一，属于一ç§�忘å�»å°�我自我ä¸å¿ƒçš„情况，并没有达到æ–除烦æ�¼çš„程度，当然没有解脱，更没有æˆ�佛。‘
男女�修，is ok for me ,basically it's human's fundenmantual desire .In buddhism there are 84000 烦�，所以有84000法门 to overcome that.U choose one that fit you -
no wonder she sounds familiar, i think she also wrote on near death or death experiences
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Originally posted by �白脸:
no wonder she sounds familiar, i think she also wrote on near death or death experiences
Who is she?
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Originally posted by rokkie:
男女�修，is ok for me ,basically it's human's fundenmantual desire .In buddhism there are 84000 烦�，所以有84000法门 to overcome that.U choose one that fit you
Of cos it's up to you or anyone in question.
It's like if one strongly believes that smoking can relieve his stress,or that smoking help to loose weight and make him look attractive, he will continue to smoke no matter what doctors say that smoking kills. His short term motive or solution may work, but in the end, nothing constructive or beneficial comes out of it; or worst, may do more harm than good.
What I wish to point out is that 男女�修 has nothing to do with Buddhism practise.
And abt what are human fundamental desires, The Four Noble Truths and the 12 interdependent originations( å��äºŒå› ç¼˜ ) explain more deeply and thoroughly to show us the true relations. Many times, what we think as basic or natural human behaviour or wants, are actually not so (in fact, many a times, they are just excuses). I'm in no position and ability to discuss such topic, this is way above me
. But you should discuss with Dharma teachers or even AEN for relevant info if you are interested to know more, or to rebutt. -
Originally posted by cycle:
Of cos it's up to you or anyone in question.It's like if one strongly believes that smoking can relieve his stress,or that smoking help to loose weight and make him look attractive, he will continue to smoke no matter what doctors say that smoking kills. His short term motive or solution may work, but in the end, nothing constructive or beneficial comes out of it; or worst, may do more harm than good.
What I wish to point out is that 男女�修 has nothing to do with Buddhism practise.
And abt what are human fundamental desires, The Four Noble Truths and the 12 interdependent originations( å��äºŒå› ç¼˜ ) explain more deeply and thoroughly to show us the true relations. Many times, what we think as basic or natural human behaviour or wants, are actually not so (in fact, many a times, they are just excuses). I'm in no position and ability to discuss such topic, this is way above me
. But you should discuss with Dharma teachers or even AEN for relevant info if you are interested to know more, or to rebutt.unfortunately i am a smoker too,and buddhism put no against smoking.the four noble ,so far as i know is 苦é�“，ç�é�“，集é�“，what so ever ,cannot remember ,i think buddhism do not mean to avoid human desire ,but it's 清净法，he say a lot of desire are just delusion ,as long as you avoid delusion,you heart will be peaceful and some desire will not raise up,but.....when it raise up do not control or surpress them,just go natrually.When you said buddhism is against sexuality ,it's somehow right .but don't forget that ,don't push it ,if u cannot take it ,just let go ,if you cannot avoid the sexual desire ,it's just because ,å› ç¼˜ ä¸�够，so don't push it .avoid desire it's like neo-confucius ,which also teach å˜å¤©ç�†ï¼Œç�人欲，but it have been proved it's a big mistake through out the history.
For the tantra thing ,i do'nt want to discuss about it ,it's part of 密宗。As you cannot deny the exsitance of karma sutra ,it's ancient wistom,to make you life better maybe in a secular manner
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Originally posted by rokkie:
For the tantra thing ,i do'nt want to discuss about it ,it's part of 密宗。As you cannot deny the exsitance of karma sutra ,it's ancient wistom,to make you life better maybe in a secular manner
Kama Sutra has nothing to do with tantra. As I said earlier:
Though I'm not a tantric practitioner, the practice of Tantra is not about techniques to enhance sex but to transform passion into wisdom.
I won't comment on this practice because as I said I don't practice tantric. You may find out more from reliable websites on vajrayana tantra.
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Originally posted by rokkie:
unfortunately i am a smoker too,and buddhism put no against smoking.the four noble ,so far as i know is 苦é�“，ç�é�“，集é�“，what so ever ,cannot remember ,i think buddhism do not mean to avoid human desire ,but it's 清净法，he say a lot of desire are just delusion ,as long as you avoid delusion,you heart will be peaceful and some desire will not raise up,but.....when it raise up do not control or surpress them,just go natrually.When you said buddhism is against sexuality ,it's somehow right .but don't forget that ,don't push it ,if u cannot take it ,just let go ,if you cannot avoid the sexual desire ,it's just because ,å› ç¼˜ ä¸�够，so don't push it .avoid desire it's like neo-confucius ,which also teach å˜å¤©ç�†ï¼Œç�人欲，but it have been proved it's a big mistake through out the history.
Suppressing sexual desires and other forms of desires will not work, but through gradual practice of letting go/dropping and insights into the deeper nature of our experience will allow such afflictions to gradually dissolve by itself.
So we must practice hard, then we will realise its possibility.
I also posted recently:
Whether walking, standing,
sitting, or lying down,
it flexes & stretches:
this is the body's movement.
Joined together with tendons & bones,
plastered over with muscle & skin,
hidden by complexion,
the body isn't seen
for what it is:
filled with intestines, filled with stomach,
with the lump of the liver,
bladder, lungs, heart,
kidneys, spleen,
mucus, sweat, saliva, fat,
blood, synovial fluid, bile, & oil.
On top of that,
in nine streams,
filth is always flowing from it:
from the eyes : eye secretions,
from the ears : ear secretions,
from the nose : mucus,
from the mouth : now vomit,
now phlegm,
now bile.
from the body : beads of sweat.
And on top of that,
its hollow head is filled with brains.
The fool, beset by ignorance,
thinks it beautiful.
But when it lies dead,
swollen, livid,
cast away in a charnel ground,
even relatives don't care for it.
Dogs feed on it,
jackals, wolves, & worms.
Crows & vultures feed on it,
along with any other animals there.
Having heard the Awakened One's words,
the discerning monk
comprehends, for he sees it
for what it is:
"As this is, so is that.
As that, so this."
Within & without,
he should let desire for the body
fade away.
With desire & passion faded away,
the discerning monk arrives here:
at the deathless,
the calm,
the undying state
of Unbinding.
This two-footed, filthy, evil-smelling,
filled-with-various-carcasses,
oozing-out-here-&-there body:
Whoever would think,
on the basis of a body like this,
to exalt himself or disparage another:
What is that
if not blindness?
The fact is that Buddha did not have a problem with sex, he saw it for what it is. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Kama Sutra has nothing to do with tantra. As I said earlier:
Though I'm not a tantric practitioner, the practice of Tantra is not about techniques to enhance sex but to transform passion into wisdom.
I won't comment on this practice because as I said I don't practice tantric. You may find out more from reliable websites on vajrayana tantra.
Kama Sutra has nothing to do with tantra.==============================
i don't want debate about whether kama sutra is part of tantra,or part of hinduism.
but if you search tantra in google ,it will lead you to a lot of websites on sexual technique ,and kama sutra.
and about the spelling ,i used to use karma sutra,or it should be kama sutra?
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Originally posted by rokkie:
Kama Sutra has nothing to do with tantra.==============================
i don't want debate about whether kama sutra is part of tantra,or part of hinduism.it's not my area
but if you search tantra in google ,it will lead you to a lot of websites on sexual technique ,and kama sutra.
and about the spelling ,i used to use karma sutra,or it should be kama sutra?