元音老人's videos

• An Eternal Now

  22 Aug 08, 02:22

  The one Thusness recommended me: http://www.tudou.com/playlist/playindex.do?lid=3173479 (go to the end -- Video 35 onwards and click on 心�大�, there are four series)

  Other videos:

  http://www.tudou.com/playlist/playindex.do?lid=1672155&iid=9857580

   

  元音�人's video was recommended to me by our moderator Thusness. Thusness said it shows "non-dual insight" and "there is deep clarity. :)" Earlier on I thought he was refering to the Heart Sutra cartoon video, but I was mistaken.

   

  (12:29 AM) Thusness:  U must watch the second video

  (12:34 AM) Thusness: 元音�人
  (12:35 AM) Thusness: I will watch all of it.
  (12:35 AM) Thusness: If I got time. 
  
  (12:38 AM) Thusness: Then u posted wrongly on the buddhism forum. (AEN: I thought the heart sutra cartoon video was what he was refering to)
   
  (12:38 AM) Thusness: Too bad.  He (元音è€�人) is the level of practitioner I m looking for. 
  (12:38 AM) Thusness: But dead liao. 
  
  (12:46 AM) Thusness: If u can understand what he said, u will understand the essence of 5 and 6. (AEN: refering to http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/thusnesss-six-stages-of-experience.html)
  (12:48 AM) Thusness: One that broke the stage 5 and understand 6 but no philosophical concepts 
  (12:48 AM) Thusness: Direct experience 
  
  (12:49 AM) Thusness: Got to listen more. 
  (12:50 AM) Thusness: he is the sort of practitioner I seek for. 
  (12:50 AM) Thusness: Self liberation

• An Eternal Now

  22 Aug 08, 02:23

  Just found out...

  元音�人 passed away 8 years ago at the age of 96 in a sitting position while chanting the Sukhavati. Vyuha Dharani loudly. He displayed no signs of sickness or dying during his last days but foretold his disciples that he will be leaving. When he died many miraculous visions of golden and 5 coloured lights, lotuses, auspicious clouds, etc etc were seen by masses. After his body was cremated there were alot of sharira and sharira-flowers.

  
  
  

  

  元音�人�利

  

  

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  http://www.yxjs.org/wenji/04_yjytp/01_ztlw.htm

  无相密心中心法三祖元音大阿阇黎于今年二月五日（农历正月�一）下�八点�五分�脱立亡，享年��六�。

  阿阇黎圆寂å‰�身体一直很好，生活起居一切如常，æ¯�天æ�¥è¯·é—®ä½›æ³•çš„人络绎ä¸�ç»�，阿阇黎总是有问必答，畅谈佛法，中气充沛，声音å®�亮，å°�年夜å�³äºŒæœˆä¸‰æ—¥ 晚，照常洗淋浴，根本看ä¸�出è¦�离世的样å­�，二月五日早上，阿阇黎与身边人讲：“我è¦�回è€�家了”，身边人讲：“师父您ä¸�能走，我们都需è¦�您，”师说：“一切 皆幻，我并没有离开你们，è¦�è®°ä½�：‘æ�¥è€Œé�žæ�¥ï¼ŒåŽ»ä¹ŸæœªåŽ»ï¼Œå€¼æ­¤æ�¥åŽ»ï¼Œäº¦é�žæ�¥åŽ»ã€‚’”且当日还与æ�¥è¯·æ³•è€…ç�Œé¡¶åŠ æŒ�。晚饭照常，根本看ä¸�出è¦�圆寂的样å­�，饭å�Ž 照例å��在平时一直座的椅å­�上，与身边人谈论佛法，教导应如何在日常生活中体现佛法，约讲了四å��五分钟左å�³ï¼Œçª�然å�Œçœ¼å�‘空中一望，似有所è§�，立å�³ç«™èµ·ï¼Œç„¶å�Ž 慢慢å��下，一代人天共仰的真善知识安详èˆ�报，以身示现了修行人往生时的潇洒自在ã€�生死无ç¢�的景象。èˆ�报å�Žæ•°æ—¥ï¼Œå®¤å†…一直异香扑鼻，å�Žé�—体è¿�往普陀山å�œæ”¾äº† å…­å��天，ç�«åŒ–当日（四月六日），未ç»�通知通过å�„ç§�渠é�“打å�¬åˆ°ç�«åŒ–日期的全国å�Šæµ·å¤–许多阿阇黎门下，为缅怀阿阇黎的功德伟业，怀ç�€å¯¹é˜¿é˜‡é»Žçš„无比敬仰之心， ä¸�约而å�Œåœ°ä¼šè�šåœ¨æ™®é™€å±±åŒ–身窑å‰�，å�‘阿阇黎é�—体作最å�Žçš„告别，当é�—嘱执行者宣读完é�—嘱时，异象出现，在è�šé›†çš„众人头上出现了一座绿色莲花，天空中射下三é�“ 金光，一é�“金光直射人群中央，å�¦äºŒé�“金光分射两æ—�，覆盖了整个在场的人，莲花上并呈现出紫色光芒æ�¥å›žç§»åŠ¨ï¼Œæ‘„åƒ�机当场摄下了这一奇异景象。ç�«åŒ–时，在阿阇 黎的胸å�£ä¸Šè¿˜å‡ºçŽ°äº†èŽ²èŠ±ï¼Œåœ¨åœºçš„许多人皆目ç�¹äº†è¿™ä¸€ç�«ä¸­å¥‡å¢ƒã€‚多日æ�¥ä¸€ç›´é˜´é›¨è¿žç»µä¸�断的天气，这一天出奇的晴空，万里无云，ç�«åŒ–å�Žï¼Œå¤©ç©ºä¸Šå‡ºçŽ°äº†é¾™å‡¤ç¥¥ 云，在化身窑上空时而久久å�œä½�，时而æ�¥å›žç§»åŠ¨ï¼Œæ­¤å¥‡å¢ƒåœ¨æ•°å°�时内有数次出现，æ¯�次出现时间皆较长，在万里无云的晴空中实是一幅美丽的奇景。第二天，æ�¡èˆ�利 时，ä¾�然是万里无云的晴空中出现了é�žå¸¸å¹¿å¤§çš„五彩圆光，圆光中间分射出四é�“金光，整个圆光内ä¸�断出现布满整个圆光的紫光ã€�红光ã€�è“�å…‰ã€�紫红等光，圆光中阿 阇黎端å��于莲花之上，此瑞相æŒ�续有四å��分钟之久，摄åƒ�机å�Œæ ·ä¹Ÿæ‘„下了这一奇异瑞相，留下了足以使人产生å�šå¼ºä¿¡å¿ƒå’Œå¼¥è¶³ç��贵的资料，如果说ç�«åŒ–那天在众人头 上出现的莲花å�Šç©ºä¸­å°„下的三é�“金光是对在场众人的加æŒ�，而此时广大的圆光å�Šå¸ƒæ»¡åœ†å…‰çš„å�„色彩光和庄严的阿阇黎圣åƒ�，则预示ç�€é˜¿é˜‡é»Žä¸€ç³»ä¼ æ‰¿çš„法门将更加辉 耀腾达，光照大å�ƒã€‚当时在场所有æ�¡èˆ�利的人è§�此瑞相，皆对阿阇黎生起了无比的感æ�©å¿ƒï¼Œä¸€è‡´å�‘æ„¿è¦�更加努力地修行以报师æ�©ï¼Œè®¸å¤šå±€å¤–人士è§�此景象皆赞å�¹ç§° 奇，å�‘愿修学无上佛é�“，当日æ�¡å¾—许多èˆ�利å�Šèˆ�利花。

  
  阿阇黎早于一ä¹�å…«ä¹�å¹´å�³æ¬²ç¦»ä¸–，å�Žç»�众弟å­�苦苦哀求而答应继续ä½�世。五年å‰�，æŸ�居士å�¶è€Œé—®èµ·é˜¿é˜‡é»Žä½•æ—¶èˆ�报时，阿阇黎å�³è¯´ï¼š“二○○○年”，去年，阿 阇黎å�³é¢„ç«‹é�—嘱，为é�¿å…�惊扰众弟å­�å�Šå‡ºçŽ°ä¸�å¿…è¦�的麻烦，故仅让数ä½�亲近弟å­�知晓，以讨论善å�Žäº‹å®œï¼Œäº²è¿‘弟å­�苦åŠ�阿阇黎ä½�世，阿阇黎云：“有生必有ç�­ï¼Œä½›å°š 且如此，å�¾åŒ–缘将毕，但å�¾ä¸�会与大家离开的，师公，师祖也在时时加æŒ�ç�€ä¿®æ³•å¼Ÿå­�，”于圆寂å‰�一日对大家说：我始终åŠ�大家往生西方æž�ä¹�世界，我为大家作一个 榜样，我也往生西方æž�ä¹�世界”，说毕，éš�å�³å¤§å£°å¿µå¾€ç”Ÿå’’，圆寂å‰�数日接待问法弟å­�时，皆éš�说å�³è¦�离世之æ„�，但身体一直很好，弟å­�皆未曾体会到，过å�Žå›žæƒ³å§‹ 悟是如此，有的虽体会到，但ä¸�敢问。普陀山æŸ�法师æ�¥é˜¿é˜‡é»Žé—®æ³•ï¼Œæœ¬äºŽåˆ�一当天å�³å›žåŽ»ï¼Œé˜¿é˜‡é»Žç ´ä¾‹å˜±å…¶ç¨�待一日，并说：“回去时带些东西，代å�‘妙善大和尚问 好”，å�Žæ�¥ï¼Œé˜¿é˜‡é»ŽäºŽå½“日圆寂，é�—体能å�œæ”¾ä¸€æ®µæ—¶æ—¥ï¼ˆé�—嘱规定）于普陀山，皆此法师所办å�Šç»�妙善大和尚å�Œæ„�，å�¦åˆ™ï¼Œé�—体欲å�œæ”¾ä¸€æ®µæ—¶æ—¥è€Œä¸�惊动全国å�„弟 å­�，是很难办的，此实是阿阇黎的善巧安排也。（阿阇黎八å��年代åˆ�曾于普陀山为è€�和尚们讲ç»�，故与妙善大和尚相识。妙è€�也与当月二å��二日圆寂。）

  
  远在山东的的æŸ�居士，于腊月廿七打电è¯�给阿阇黎，è¦�求æ�¥æ²ªç…§é¡¾è€�人，阿阇黎告说：“还有这个必è¦�å�—？”该居士想，以å‰�也有几次è¦�求照顾阿阇黎，但阿阇 黎总是说：“你家里人也需è¦�你，我还行，”而此次回答å�Šå£°è°ƒå�´ä¸�å�Œå¯»å¸¸ï¼ŒäºŒæ—¥å�Žå�³æ¢¦è§�一座å�Ÿå¢“，å�Ÿå¢“上显现一“å…ƒ”字，å�Žæƒ³æƒ³é˜¿é˜‡é»Žå‰�二天的回答å�Šæ¢¦å¢ƒï¼Œ 觉得蹊跷，赶到上海，阿阇黎已圆寂了。全国å�„地å�—法弟å­�早于阿阇黎往生å‰�，有许多人皆得到阿阇黎å�³å°†ç¦»ä¸–的梦兆，故常有人çª�然打电è¯�问候阿阇黎近况，但å�ˆ ä¸�能直言ä¸�讳讲明梦兆，事å�Žè®²èµ·ï¼Œéƒ½æœ‰ä¸�å�¯æ€�议的感觉，此诚阿阇黎殊胜功德力之所加æŒ�。

  
  阿阇黎年é�’æ—¶å�³éš�天å�°å®—大德兴慈è€�法师习å�°æ•™ï¼Œç»§å�ˆéš�范å�¤å†œè€�居士学习唯识，å�Žéš�å�Žä¸¥åº§ä¸»åº”æ…ˆè€�和尚学å�Žä¸¥ï¼Œä¹ æ³•ç•Œè§‚，最å�Žä¾�无相密心中心法第二祖王 骧陆阿阇黎修心中心法，彻悟心è¦�得大æˆ�就，于一ä¹�五八年接任心中心法第三祖ä½�。å�Žéš�居沪滨数å��年，弃ç»�å��利，èž�通净密，éš�机施教，默默耕耘，æ¯�誉ä¸�动。å�� 年浩劫期间，阿阇黎因传法授徒é�­å�—ç§�ç§�诽谤而被隔离审查二年有å�Šã€‚浩劫å�Žï¼Œæ�¢å¤�了宗教信仰自由，阿阇黎已七å��有六，但阿阇黎有感于众生痛苦，ä¸�明宇宙人生 的真相，认幻有为实有，执ç�€éš¾èˆ�，由此而轮回ä¸�æ�¯æ— æœ‰å‡ºæœŸï¼›ä¸”许多学佛者也在å��相堆里死钻而出ä¸�æ�¥ï¼Œæ‰§æŒ‡ä¸ºæœˆï¼ŒäºŽé™�ä¼�烦æ�¼æ— æµŽäºŽäº‹ï¼Œæœ‰å¿—于实修解脱者，也 å› ä¸�明真ç�†è€Œç›²ä¿®çžŽç‚¼ï¼Œå”�丧光阴，甚至走ç�«å…¥é­”，有鉴于此，阿阇黎出而大声疾呼明心è§�性之é‡�è¦�，此实乃了生脱死之关键，众生唯有识自本心，è§�自本性，回å¤� 本æ�¥ï¼Œæ‰�能出离生死苦海，此实ä¸�论何宗何派，皆ä¸�能逾于此，å�³å¦‚三根普被之净土宗，待生到西方å�Žï¼Œäº¦è¦�“花开è§�ä½›”æ‰�能“悟无生”，所谓“花开è§�ä½›”，å�³ 心花开而è§�自性佛也，这岂ä¸�是明心è§�性的异å��è¯�å�—？ï¼�

  
  阿阇黎å�ˆæ„ŸäºŽæœ«æ³•ä¼—生ç¦�薄业é‡�，障深慧浅，ä¸�è¦�说当生æˆ�就，å�³å¦‚往生西方也实在ä¸�易，诚如å�¤å¾·å¸¸å�¹ï¼š“念佛者滔滔，往生者难有一ã€�二。”究其原因，众 生放ä¸�下也，å�ªè¦�娑婆世界还有一点未放下，就ä¸�å�¯èƒ½å¾€ç”Ÿæž�ä¹�世界，å�£ä¸Šè¯´æ”¾ä¸‹ï¼Œä¸�是真放下，è¦�心里放下æ‰�是真放下，而è¦�心里放下谈何容易，看看自己的执ç�€ 妄念，这些妄念ä¸�é™�ä¼�，则必将引å�‘生死轮回，若ä¸�达功夫æˆ�片，则往生难望，而é™�ä¼�烦æ�¼é�žå¸¸æœ‰åŠ›ä¸”快速的法门，则心中心法实是当机，此大法å®�是末法众生当生 æˆ�就或往生西方的æž�为殊胜的法门，阿阇黎还指出，此法简å�•æ˜“修，仗佛力加被，迅速有力的除罪ã€�积ç¦�ã€�è¯�体ã€�起用，且能断ç»�外魔等障ç¢�。

  《佛心��亦通大�求陀罗尼�》云：

  
  “尔时，如æ�¥ä»Žä¸‰æ˜§èµ·å‘Šè¨€ï¼š‘诸善男å­�，善哉，善哉。众生没尽，æ±�悉知å�¦ï¼Ÿæˆ‘今诸众生，ä¸�解我法，ä¸�知我心，被魔（烦æ�¼é­”天魔）所æŒ�，如何救得，è°�有方计护得众生，è°�有方计摄得此毒……’
  于众会中有一è�©è�¨å��曰实德，白佛言：‘世尊，如是金刚è�©è�¨å¤©ä»™ï¼Œçš†æ‚‰ä¸�能摄æŒ�，佛今如何令诸众生得脱此难。’

  
  尔时，如æ�¥å‘Šå®�å¾·è�©è�¨è¨€ï¼š‘唯有如æ�¥å¿ƒä¸­å¿ƒï¼Œä½™ä¸�能å�Šï¼Œä½•ä»¥æ•…，能令诸魔生大慈故……能令诸佛常ä¸�离故，能令è�©è�¨ä¸ºçœ·å±žæ•…，能令诸金刚施å¨�力故，能令诸天众常拥护故，能令一切直至è�©æ��无退转故……’”
  å�ˆäº‘：“……欲求生西方者，欲求下方自在生者，欲求å��方自在生者，欲求世辨无短缺者，唯当至心æ€�维自念事，日æŒ�å�ƒé��，七日之间å�³èƒ½å¾—至，一离世界更ä¸�å¾€æ�¥……”
  å�ˆäº‘：“……临命终时，å��方诸佛临顶，自迎将己世界……”

  此法�力无穷，殊胜无比，其�深妙难测。

  ç»�云：“……一切诸身中，莫过于佛体，所有è¦�妙法，无过心中心，将心示众生，众生å�³ä½›ä½“，如此大圣力，è�©è�¨ä¸�能知，有劫æ�’河沙，我始一付嘱，若能ä¾�修者，å�³å�Œæˆ‘此身……”。

  故末法众生有缘能修此大法，�知乃多劫所修善根之所感�也。若有人�谤此法�阻�正法弘扬，则惨烈果报�样���议，兹�引述。

  
  简言之，此法以般若为体，以密为用，以净土为归，是�禅净密于一体的，阿阇黎亲修此法得大�就，故为报佛�，师��众生�，虽年近八旬（浩劫�始 弘），犹竭力弘扬，并指归净土，常有人为求决一二疑，�远�里万里而�问法，阿阇黎�处常挤满了求法问法者，讲法无�从自性三昧�出，也从���何宗何 派，�机施教，应病与�，讲法时常感异香�室，阿阇黎有许多���议功德之事，因今人根陋劣，善根鲜少，�信有奇特之事，�或信者也多�著，易入�差，故 阿阇黎从�许知情者讲，因此未便公开。

  
  近�年�，于阿阇黎处�法人数达数万，��全国�地�美国�德国�法国�加拿大�日本等国，而修有�就者也略有其人，明心�性者为数�多，往生净土� 已�具足往生资格者更是��胜数，故许多汉人去�地大活佛处求法，而大活佛皆告以汉地元音�人乃真实�就之大善知识，故�地回汉的学法者多亲近阿阇黎。在 此末法浊世，人根�其陋劣的当今，尚能使许多众生得佛法真实利益，此何其之难哉�阿阇黎犹如是冰雪大地上一根�红的钢炭，在�化众生的执�，�如是沙地上 行驶的航船，在艰难地渡人迈�彼岸，此诚���议之伟业�相信在未�的�月里，必将有阿阇黎门下之有学有修有�的优秀佛�，广���大愿，为拯救众生于水 �，出而弘扬正法，此乃有志于真实修学并�之佛�翘首以盼之美事耳�

  
  阿阇黎于闲暇时，著有《略论明心�性》�《悟心铭浅释》�《碧岩录讲座》�《禅海微澜》�《心�抉�》�《谈谈往生西方的关键问题》等皆汇集在《佛法 修�心�》中，�外还有《中有闻教得度释义》也已出版，《楞严�直解》惜已散失，《�河大手�浅释》�《佛法修�心�问答集》�久将�世，《问答集》必将 给修�而无从请益者带��大利益。

  
  �人虽已�报而法身常在，并以��方便加��弟�们，此诚许多修法弟�之所默祷者也。

  二○○○年三月三�日

• An Eternal Now

  22 Aug 08, 03:40

   

  Oh and something interesting, I was looking at Video 19 (second link) and he was explaining that Hui Neng's poem "mirror has no stand" is not yet true enlightenment... this is in line with what my Taiwanese teacher and what Thusness said -- both of whom said that Hui Neng's poem was �空. I even posted Bodhi Tree & Bright Mirror (Part 2), two years ago, where I said

  
  According to a talk by my Taiwanese teacher shown on VCD in my dharma center which I noted some of what he said a few days ago... he said that if Master Hui Neng were to be allowed to teach, he would lead all the zen practitioners into 'Pian1 Kong1' (leaning to voidness/formlessness). The whole poem is 'leaning to void/formlessness', every verse of it is talking about void, it is talking about the formless nature of consciousness. Therefore at that time, Hui Neng was not suitable to teach yet. This is also very similar to what Thusness told me over a year ago, which I will paste the conversation here later.

  Thusness on this several years back:

  
  [01:08] <ZeN`n1th> but when hui neng wrote this, is he already enlightened or not yet enlightned
  [01:08] <ZeN`n1th>         Fundamentally no wisdom-tree exists,
  [01:08] <ZeN`n1th>         Nor the stand of a mirror bright.
  [01:08] <ZeN`n1th>         Since all is empty from the beginning,
  [01:08] <ZeN`n1th>         Where can the dust alight
  [01:09] <^john^> not completely enlightened from my perspective. :)

  [01:16] <^john^> empty here is not the essence of the nature, but refers to the formless nature of consciousness

  [01:01] <^john^> yes he  (5th patriarch) told hui neng to go into hiding coz he isn't ready. :)
  [01:02] <ZeN`n1th> isn't ready for?
  [01:02] <^john^> preaching. :)

  [00:59] <^john^> after he came out from hiding, he is entirely different.

  元音�人:

  神秀说的是æ¸�修，而禅宗是顿悟ã€�é¡¿ä¿®ã€�é¡¿è¯�的圆顿法，所以五祖ä¸�把衣钵给他。六祖说：“本æ�¥æ— ä¸€ç‰©ã€‚”这就å��空了。所以五祖说：“也没有è§�性ï¼�”è‹¥ 真è§�性了，五祖为什么还è¦�三更说法，说到“应无所ä½�而生其心”六祖æ‰�大悟呢？这个å�ˆå­�改一改：“è�©æ��æ�ƒå�šæ ‘，明镜å�‡ä½œå�°ã€‚”现相妙用啊，暂且å�šå�šæ ‘å�°ä¹Ÿä¸� 妨ï¼�“本æ�¥ä¸�染污，说净亦尘埃”。有个清净，还是尘埃。本性是ä¸�垢ä¸�净，空无一物的，垢既无有，净å�ˆä½•æ�¥ï¼�？但现在把这两个å�ˆå­�è�”å�ˆèµ·æ�¥äº¦å¾ˆå½“用。因为现 代人根é’�，ä¸�“常常勤拂拭”，扫除妄习，怎能æˆ�é�“？ä¸�作“本æ�¥æ— ä¸€ç‰©”会，å�ˆæ€Žèƒ½ä¸�著有？所以近人说：六祖与神秀大师å�ˆèµ·æ�¥ï¼Œå…­ç¥–是摩醯首罗一å�ªçœ¼ï¼Œè€Œç¥ž 秀是å�Œç›®åœ†æ˜Žï¼Œä¿¡ä¸�诬也。----- æ¡¥æµ�æ°´ä¸�æµ�

• bohiruci

  22 Aug 08, 04:04

  In the E-sangha ,there were people who doesnt recognise the attainment of Master Yuanyin ,especially in the branch of Drikung Kagyu  Buddhism

  I guess my stand is neutral because I see no conflict with the Zhen Ru xing of the Sentient beings

   

  Currently there isnt any follower of Master Yuanyin in singapore ,so I guess we couldnt seek insight to the Ming Xing Jian Xing [Seeings one Dharma nature ] teaching

   

   

• An Eternal Now

  22 Aug 08, 04:21

  Originally posted by bohiruci:

  In the E-sangha ,there were people who doesnt recognise the attainment of Master Yuanyin ,especially in the branch of Nyingma Buddhism

  I guess my stand is neutral because I see no conflict with the Zhen Ru xing of the Sentient beings

   

  Currently there isnt any follower of Master Yuanyin in singapore ,so I guess we couldnt seek insight to the Ming Xing Jian Xing [Seeings one Dharma nature ] teaching

   

   

  Hmm can you provide a link to the forum? Am unable to find such links.

• An Eternal Now

  22 Aug 08, 15:35

  Watched the first series of 心ç»�大æ„�  (See first post). Really good.

  Thusness also told me the 2nd part which he says is also important... will watch later.

• An Eternal Now

  22 Aug 08, 16:50

  Updated a post above with pictures of him and his shariras

• sinweiy

  23 Aug 08, 16:33

  reminds me of Diamond Guru Huang Nian Zhu ...

  then i heard he really know 黃念祖.

  http://www.budaedu.org/ghosa/L00106/

  /\

• sinweiy

  25 Aug 08, 09:38

  interesting quote from 元音è€�人 :

  the idea of vajrayana (even such as achieving the Rainbow body), makes it possible to attain a "Causation" Buddha 因地佛, instead of a "Fruition" Buddha 果地佛. "Causation" Buddha 因地佛 is around a First Ground "Bodhisattva" and that the understanding is similar to that of the Shakyamuni Buddha. "Fruition" Buddha is refering to Shakyamuni or Amitabha Buddha, i.e. an "official" Buddha.
  
  reference:

  阿弥陀佛，请师父开示弟�,密宗里的�身�佛所�的佛是因地佛,还是果地佛?是明心�性时所�得的法身佛�?
  ==========
  
  �师回�:
      那也是æˆ�因地佛，还ä¸�能æˆ�觉行圆满的果地佛。西è—�红教大圆满有虹光法，是明心è§�性（å�«å½»å�´ï¼‰å�Žä¿®çš„直超三界的法（å�«å¦¥å˜Žï¼Œé¡¿è¶…çš„æ„�æ€�），比禅宗è§�性å�Žå�‘上用功多了个方便，修æˆ�功å�Žèƒ½èº«åŒ–虹光，一般è—�地把修æˆ�身化虹光å�«ä½œå�³èº«æˆ�就。实际上禅宗破末å�Žç‰¢å…³å�Žè™¹å…‰æ³•ä¹ŸåŒ…å�«åœ¨é‡Œé�¢ï¼Œæ‰€æœ‰çš„法修到最å�Žéƒ½ä¸€æ ·ã€‚

  
  http://www.myall.com.cn/dispbbs.asp?boardid=13&id=1915
  
  

  或曰：禪宗大德直證佛地，所謂等妙二覺，猶是他��鞋漢，總該沒有最後一分無明了。那麼，此等人生西，�須帶業往生了嗎？曰：禪宗所證是��佛，所證�性與佛無二無別，但就事說來，尚未證到果佛地�，因此並�能與釋迦�彌陀等�齊觀。�見��玄沙：「宗下見性�佛，是�已到果佛地�？�沙曰：「�是因地佛，並�果地佛。�所以開悟見性，一般�登�地，相當於見��，尚待�上修證，分破無明，圓證法身。所以說宗下見性後，�直登無修�無得�無證�，實大錯誤，因尚有一個如喪考妣在也，如何�須帶業往生？�

  http://www.bodhiroad.idv.tw/new_page_197.htm

  
  
  above can also be said for Ch'an's "sudden enlightenment".
  it's not possible for us to attain a "Fruition" Buddha 果地佛 without going through aeons/kalpas of time periods. aeons/kalpas are involved "conventionally".
  this can be shown in the Lotus Sutra, whereby Shakymuni Buddha still gave prediction to Great Arahats that they will achieve Buddhahood in so and so time and in so and so future aeons/kalpas. and these Great Arahats are suppose to have achieved very high level of achievement.
  
  thus i learned,
  /\

• sinweiy

  28 Aug 08, 11:36

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  the idea of vajrayana (even such as achieving the Rainbow body), makes it possible to attain a "Causation" Buddha 因地佛, instead of a "Fruition" Buddha 果地佛. "Causation" Buddha 因地佛 ..

  
  another interesting point that say...how is Rainbow body still an "entity" or "form"  in the universe? u can see whether one eventually realise that not even Buddhahood is attainable. even attaining Buddhahood had to be renouce.

  /\

• An Eternal Now

  28 Aug 08, 12:28

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  
  another interesting point that say...how is Rainbow body still an "entity" or "form"  in the universe? u can see whether one eventually realise that not even Buddhahood is attainable. even attaining Buddhahood had to be renouce.

  /\

  Rainbow Body is actually not an entity or form:

   http://www.surajamrita.com/bon/buddhahood.html

  ...Indeed Thodgal does possess a method for dissolving the impure physical body at the time of death or even before and then the Rainbow Body of Light manifests. But this is not a process of transforming an impure physical body into a pure Sambhogakaya. The method Proper to Dzogchen is not the path of transformation as is the case with the Tantras but the path of self liberation. So the procedure in Tantra and in Thodgal is quite different. To effect a transformation in vision and in energy Tantra employs visualization in terms of Kyerim and Dzogrim practice. We visualize ourselves in a Sambhogakaya form whether this be a peaceful or a wrathful manifestation. But in Dzogchen there is nothing to be visualized and nothing to be transformed. The visions which arise during the course of Thodgal are not visualizations. Visualization represents the work of the mind; visualizations are created by the mind. But Dzogchen is a state beyond the mind. So these visions which arise in Thodgal are not created by the mind or by unconscious karma but they are a manifestation of what is already primordially present in the Natural State. The vision is not something created by causes but it is Lhundrub (Ihun grub) or spontaneously perfected. Since the Sambhogakaya is already fully inherent in the Natural State it simply manifests. Dzogchen alone discloses our real nature; Dzogchen has already discovered this inherent Buddhahood our real nature and so it can manifest the Sambhogakaya effortlessly. At the culmination of the Thodgal process at the stage of vision called the exhausting of everything into Reality (bon nyid zad pa) all of the visions that the practitioner experiences whether pure or impure dissolve into the Natural State. This includes our physical body which is the result of past karmic causes and represents our impure karmic vision. For the practitioner everything dissolves. This sets the stage for the spontaneous manifestation of the Sambhogakaya which has been present in potential in the Natural State from the very beginning. Since it is already there no primary cause for its manifestation is needed. [The secondary causes for its manifestation however are the purifications of obscurations along the path. This is like the winds removing the clouds from the sky so that the face of the sun becomes visible or like opening the doors to the temple so that the image of the Buddha can clearly be seen].

   

  If we examine the notion of Buddhahood from the logical standpoint we find that the Nirmanakaya and the Sambhogakaya are impermanent whereas the Dharmakaya alone is permanent. But when we further examine the Dhan-nakaya we discover that there are two sides to it. On the side of emptiness it is permanent but on the side of wisdom it is impermanent. The Kunzhi the basis of everything is permanent because it is emptiness but Rigpa is impermanent because it is not always manifest. These two Kunzhi and Rigpa are always inseparable (dbyer med) in the Natural State. On the side of emptiness (stong cha) there is permanence but on the side of clarity (gsal-cha) or awareness (rig-cha) there is impermanence. So the manifestation side is impermanent; it is changing all of the time whereas the emptiness side is constant and permanent. We can logically distinguish these things when we speak about the Natural State but the Natural State is a totality and a perfect unity. Within it emptiness and clarity are inseparable and never otherwise. This inseparability or Yermed (dbyer med) is the essence of Dzogchen. To fall either on the side of emptiness or on the side of manifestation is to deviate from Dzogchen.

  To realize the Rainbow Body means that we have practiced Thodgal and not some other method. The visions that arise are not specifically created but appear spontaneously (Ihun grub) in the presence of secondary causes such as sunlight, total darkness, and the clear open sky. They arise spontaneously from the Natural State; no Kyerim or Dzogrim practices must be done first as preparation. All that is required is the capacity to remain with stability in the Natural State. This is called stable Thegchod. Then the Thodgal visions come automatically whether in sunlight or total darkness or in the empty sky. Gradually all the pure visions of the deities arise and these visions develop by way of four stages (snang ba bzhi) until completion. Then they all dissolve into the Natural State. Our personal reality of pure and impure vision (snang ba) dissolves into Reality (bon nyid) which is the Natural State. At the same time that our visions dissolve our physical body also dissolves because it is just one manifestation of our impure karmic vision. Our normal everyday impure vision has the same source as the Thodgal pure vision - and now both equally dissolve into their source the Natural State. There is a single Base, the Natural State, but there are two Paths - impure karmic vision and pure vision, and two Fruits or results - Samsara and Nirvana. Returning to the ultimate source then the potentiality of the Natural State manifests as a Rainbow Body, the real Rupakaya.

  This lalu or Rainbow Body can appear in a material sense to sentient beings in order to teach them. The Rainbow Body is not material but appears to be so since it can act on all of the senses of a sentient being simultaneously. The Sambhogakaya can be perceived only by the Aryas the Boddhisattvas who have ascended the third, fourth, or fifth paths [that is the Paths of Vision of Meditation Development and Culmination]. They can hear the teachings of the Sambhogakaya whereas ordinary beings cannot see nor hear this manifestation. So it is the Nirmanakaya that they hear and perceive. To human beings this Nirmanakaya appears as human. In other worlds and with other species of beings the situation will be different. But the Rainbow Body as the potentiality of the Natural State is not limited to any particular form. It can appear in a myriad of different forms. The Natural State has been with us from the very beginning. We have done nothing more than to rediscover it continue in it and allow its potentiality to manifest. That is Buddhahood.

• sinweiy

  28 Aug 08, 15:13

  Originally posted by An Eternal Now:

  Rainbow Body is actually not an entity or form:

  i know, hence the quotation marks(" "). actually the statement not i say... it's 元音è€�人's saying about three four times..

  what do u think 元音�人mean when he say Rainbow Body is "宇宙的一个游魂 wandering spirit in the universe"?

   

  Natural State manifests as a Rainbow Body, the real Rupakaya.

  i find this statement more to my interest. Rupakaya, real body of form.

    

  Svabhavikakaya

  the integration of all three kaya

  avikaravajrakaya

  Dharmakaya (chos sku).

  The first of the Three Kayas, which is devoid of constructs, and space-like as this nature of all things. The basic and all-pervasive nature of all phenomena. Dharmakaya also is designated as the 'body' of enlightened qualities. Dharmakaya should be understood individually according to ground, path and fruition. [RY]

  The kayas: Various aspects or states of buddhahood. One recognizes two, three, four, or five kayas.

  Two Kayas: dharmakaya, the absolute body, and rupakaya, the body of form.

  Three kayas: the dharmakaya, or absolute body; the sambhogakaya, or body of divine enjoyment; and the nirmanakaya, or manifested body. These correspond to the mind, speech, and body of an enlightened buddha and are expressed as the five wisdoms.

  Four Kayas: the svabhavikakaya, or essential body, is to be added to the three kayas and represents their inseparability (dbyer med).

  Five kayas: to the three kayas one adds the avikaravajrakaya, the "unchanging vajra body," and the abhisambodhikaya, "body of total enlightenment." Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche

   

• An Eternal Now

  14 Sep 08, 04:05

  http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/45m3ol51OfQ/

  -- Good video, only 4 minutes but explains the meaning of 'non-thought' and also the common misconceptions -- 元音�人开示无念真�

• An Eternal Now

  14 Sep 08, 04:07

  BTW 元音�人 predicted his death in year 2000 many years back:

  http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/ElKvjbHmvCU/

  (Conversation in 1995)

  �居士: �是我们现在的众生有�的�，我们弟�们好好�心修的�，师父您�世能
  够�多几�年?
  
  元音�人: �看缘啊!
  
  �居士: 我是这样�心的! 我们好好修的�， 上师就会多�世几�年的。
  
  元音�人: 用功用功， 好好用功!
  
  �居士: 上师能跟我们说个大致的几�年， ���以跟我们说一下?
  
  元音è€�人:  我和大家都说好了， 我说2000年就走了。 哈哈...
  
  �居士: 太快了! 那太快了! �以...
  
  元音è€�人:  哈哈...
  2000 å¹´!
  好了!

• An Eternal Now

  14 Sep 08, 16:24

  A book of deep and profound insights on understanding our true nature.. teachings on Ganges Mahamudra (�河大手�) by 元音�人, available for download: http://www.wuys.com/news/Article_Show.asp?ArticleID=9779

  �费赠阅 -- free for distribution

• sinweiy

  15 Sep 08, 11:24

  after hearing the teacher of Yuan Yin lao ren is 王骧陆 Wang Xiang lu, i found this :-

   

  大方广圆觉修多罗了义�抉�

   

  王骧陆居士著

  http://bookgb.bfnn.org/books/0948.htm

  maybe can take a read,

  /\

• sinweiy

  18 Sep 08, 22:01

  a lot of Q&A:-

  佛法修�心�问答集

  （修法）

   

  元音�人著

  http://bookgb.bfnn.org/books2/1074.htm

  /\

• An Eternal Now

  19 Sep 08, 18:49

  Originally posted by sinweiy:

  a lot of Q&A:-

  佛法修�心�问答集

  （修法）

   

  元音�人著

  http://bookgb.bfnn.org/books2/1074.htm

  /\

  Wow.. thanks :)

  元音�人 makes his students sit at least 2 hours each day, per sitting.

  I must practice harder now... haha

   

   

  1.问：修心中心法，加座时低于两�时行�？

   

  答：加座很需�，但��少于两�时。