What's Buddhism's view abt Aggression towards other faiths?
-
Originally posted by Rooney9:
yes. but its wrong to say its theravada buddhism, because buddha did not taught theravada buddhism or even mahayana buddhism.
I am confused -
Originally posted by Dondontan:
I am confusedThe distinctions into Theravada and Mahayana came hundreds of years after Buddha's passing.
Thera means 'elders', refers to a group of elder monks, and those that follows this group became Theravada.
Mahayana as a school of Buddhism is also formed later on, so is Vajrayana.
-
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
The distinctions into Theravada and Mahayana came hundreds of years after Buddha's passing.
Thera means 'elders', refers to a group of elder monks, and those that follows this group became Theravada.
Mahayana as a school of Buddhism is also formed later on, so is Vajrayana.
What is the difference among these Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana?
ARe these 3 all, or more?
-
Originally posted by Dondontan:
What is the difference among these Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana?
ARe these 3 all, or more?
These 3 are all.
However there are many sub division/sects.
For example Mahayana has Zen, Pure Land, and so on.
Vajrayana has Gelug, Sakya, Kagyu, Nyingma.
Theravada also has different emphasis/approach whether it is Thai, Myanmar, or Sri Lankan.
As for similarities and differences you can refer to http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/snapshot02.htm
-
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Soka Gakkai is not recognised as mainstream Buddhism locally and in Japan for several reasons. As I explained in http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/362888:
From my previous discussion with an SGI member, I sense that Soka Gakkai has very little about walking the eightfold path, about attaining liberation, realising our true nature and enlightenment. Their teachings is very skewed towards humanism and their idea of Buddhahood is also warped. There is very little emphasis on teaching the core Buddha's teachings.
Buddhism isn't about morality, humanism, etc.. but about awareness, ending the cycle of birth and death and attaining liberation from all sufferings. Humanism helps the world to become a better place but does not solve the root ignorance in human being that is perpetuating the cycle of rebirth and suffering.
Those looking into Buddhism, I would advise them to look into mainstream Buddhism teachings, understand them first.
Also from Nichiren Buddhism:
Dear all,
Nichiren Buddhism has been in the mainstream Buddhist circle as seen in the website of Japan Buddhist Federation (http://www.jbf.ne.jp/) where Nichiren Buddhist schools are members with exception to Nichiren Shoshu & Soka Gakkai.
Probably what needs to be banned from this forum is actually "Nichirenism". Well, I'll make a summary explanation of this.
In Japan, Buddhism is almost exclusively of the Northern tradition (Mahayana). The lineages are mainly from Tiendai (Tien-tai), Shingon, Jodo (Pure Land), Zen, Nichiren & Nara schools. Due to the sectarian nature of Japanese Buddhism, each lineage consists of subsects together with the main sect.
For Nichiren Buddhism, the main sect will be Nichiren Shu with subsects such as Kempon Hokke Shu, Honmon Butsuryu Shu, Honmon Hokke Shu & 3 offshoots of Hokke Shu. There are 2 sects that advocates "Nichirenism" instead & they are Honmon Shoshu, Nichiren Shoshu & its one-time lay organisation Soka Gakkai.
Here's the brief difference between Nichiren Shu, Nichiren Shoshu & Soka Gakkai:
3 Treasures of Buddhism
- Buddha
- Dhamma
- Sangha
1) Nichiren Shu
- Buddha : Eternal Sakyamuni Buddha
- Dhamma : Mahayana Tripitaka with the Lotus Sutra as base, Namu Myoho Renge Kyo
- Sangha : Nichiren Shonin (with the monastics & lay community)
2) Nichiren Shoshu
- Buddha : Nichiren Daishonin
- Dhamma : The Lotus Sutra, Nam Myoho Rengo Kyo (with emphasize on the Goshos)
- Sangha : Nikko Shonin & successive High Priests
3) Soka Gakkai [2 types]
{A} Official
- Buddha : Nichiren Daishonin
- Dhamma : The Lotus Sutra, Nam Myoho Rengo Kyo (with emphasize on the Goshos)
- Sangha : Nikko Shonin
{B} In Reality
- Buddha : President Daisaku Ikeda
- Dhamma : Writings & Teachings of the President & Soka Gakkai
- Sangha : Soka Gakkai organisation & members
Reason for stating the above 3 organisations is that they are more known thru out the world & are ones with branches in Singapore.
For more info about Nichiren Shu, check out http://nichiren-shu.org/ , Malaysia branch (http://www.nshumy.org/) & Indonesia branch (http://www.nishi.org/)
Homage to the Original Teacher Lord Sakyamuni Buddha
Buddha's Grace,
Supa NagaThe Buddha's path can be summarised into :
Avoid all non-virtue --(1)
Perform all virtue --(2)
Tame one's mind --(3)
This is the teaching of Buddha
(1) This is based on non-aggression or not harming others. And this is basically very much linked to how to be a good human, or Confucianistic like conduct... I would also say that this is quite linked to the Hinayana precepts.(2) This is based on love and compassion. Very much linked to the Bodhisattva path and linked to the Mahayana Bodhisattva precepts.
(1) & (2) are linked to precepts within the trio of (precepts, concentration and wisdom, 戒定慧
(3) is linked to concentration and wisdom. Also very much connected to the Vajrayana/Tantric precepts and Mahamudra, Madhyamika, Dzogchen practices. At level 3, one's main focus is to attain liberation from delusions.
As we can see, Buddhism is a very holistic approach, addressing all levels of the problems and shd infuse all aspects of life.
-
Originally posted by Rooney9:
but pureland is not Nirvana. when one attained enlightenment, they realised the truth. when they die, they pass into Nirvana. if pureland is no longer in samsara, then it must be Nirvana. This is what the Buddha taught isnt it. some contradictions here.
Dear Rooney,
Bodhisattvas (ie, practitioners on the Mahayana path) do not abide in samsara nor nirvana. This is due to their great compassion for beings and vows to benefit beings.
Regarding the nature of samsara and nirvana, at the highest level of realisation, they are realised to be inseparable. But for now, it is pointless to speculate about this because one can go down the wrong path when one misunderstands this point.
I think you have to differentiate in your own mind between the terms 'enlightenment' and 'liberation from samsara', 'Arhatship' and 'Buddhahood'. Also, some of these terms may mean different things in different contexts. There are also many levels of so-called enlightenment.
The only way to truly differentiate them is to really investigate into what each experience has to entail. This requires hard reading and often people will misunderstand things because they just look at the labels given to different experiences.
It is said that if one reaches Amitabha pureland and sees Buddha Amitabha, one attains the first bhumi which is considered irreversible in the sense that one is no longer prey to delusions that can subject one to rebirth in samsara without control. (The eighth bhumi is considered irreversible because of a different reason, as stated in quote below)
From Amitabha pureland, one can miraculously visit the other Buddhas' purelands and receive teachings directly from Buddhas and Bodhisattvas and it is said that at the end of that life, one attains complete Buddhahood.
Eighth Bhumi bodhisattvas are said to be "irreversible", because there is no longer any possibility that they might waver on the path or backslide. They are destined for full buddhahood, and there are no longer any inclinations to seek a personal nirvana.
One can read more about the bhumi classifications and Mahayana path here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhumi_(Buddhism)
http://www.lotsawahouse.org/patrul/stages_and_paths.html
Please note that this is a huge subject and there is difference between the Hinayana 5 paths and the Mahayana 5 paths classification.
The Abhisamayalankara is a detailed exposition on this, but i think the original text is hard to understand. You can also read Khenpo Appey's book "Clarification of the Sage's Intent" for a easier understanding.
-
Originally posted by Dondontan:
Hello, AEN, my friend told me Diamond Sutra is for driving the spirit away. Your version is different, so which is which?
Hi Dondontan,Diamond sutra is recited as a daily practice to accumulate merit and purify obscurations. It can also be used to study emptiness.
In Tibetan tradtion, the heart sutra is more likely used for clearing obstacles.
-
Originally posted by As romanista2001:
me not in SGI, but my mom is..................i don't know much about it, in fact i don't understand why they are chanting in front of a piece of calligraphy.
i've always been sort of a ''half-pail'' buddhist................i know it's the only real ''one'' out there but i don't really bother finding out that much about it..............
i only got interested after i came across this website www.diamond-sutra.com...............i read the English translation and i just know it all makes sense..............previously, i didn't even knew the Buddha taught about the non-self.
Whatever the mainstream is... i think better to be very careful about saying anything about any of the schools no matter how far from the core principles of Buddhism it seems. The reason i say this is because it is very easy to commit the fault of slandering the dharma or abandoning the dharma.For learning, it is best to stick to standard curriculum if you have the affinity to meet it.
Just a note, abandoning the dharma or slandering the dharma is one of the main things that prevent one from rebirth in Amitabha's pureland no matter how strong your wish and merit... this is stated in Amitabha's vows itself. Which shows how serious it is.
-
Originally posted by As romanista2001:
i thought about this a long time ago and i believe it all adds up over the lifetimes...........meaning you won't ''backtrack'' in the next lifetime, you can only go forward and accumulate more buddhist wisdom...............so when enough ''spiritualism'' has built up................PRESTO !
all this is my own theory but if people can ''go backwards'' then really really jialat liao...............
Romanista2001,Sad to say, definitely can backtrack. It is not that easy to be liberated, you know, takes dedication and perseverance.
-
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Soka Gakkai is not recognised as mainstream Buddhism locally and in Japan for several reasons. As I explained in http://buddhism.sgforums.com/forums/1728/topics/362888:
From my previous discussion with an SGI member, I sense that Soka Gakkai has very little about walking the eightfold path, about attaining liberation, realising our true nature and enlightenment. Their teachings is very skewed towards humanism and their idea of Buddhahood is also warped. There is very little emphasis on teaching the core Buddha's teachings.
Buddhism isn't about morality, humanism, etc.. but about awareness, ending the cycle of birth and death and attaining liberation from all sufferings. Humanism helps the world to become a better place but does not solve the root ignorance in human being that is perpetuating the cycle of rebirth and suffering.
Those looking into Buddhism, I would advise them to look into mainstream Buddhism teachings, understand them first.
Also from Nichiren Buddhism:
Dear all,
Nichiren Buddhism has been in the mainstream Buddhist circle as seen in the website of Japan Buddhist Federation (http://www.jbf.ne.jp/) where Nichiren Buddhist schools are members with exception to Nichiren Shoshu & Soka Gakkai.
Probably what needs to be banned from this forum is actually "Nichirenism". Well, I'll make a summary explanation of this.
In Japan, Buddhism is almost exclusively of the Northern tradition (Mahayana). The lineages are mainly from Tiendai (Tien-tai), Shingon, Jodo (Pure Land), Zen, Nichiren & Nara schools. Due to the sectarian nature of Japanese Buddhism, each lineage consists of subsects together with the main sect.
For Nichiren Buddhism, the main sect will be Nichiren Shu with subsects such as Kempon Hokke Shu, Honmon Butsuryu Shu, Honmon Hokke Shu & 3 offshoots of Hokke Shu. There are 2 sects that advocates "Nichirenism" instead & they are Honmon Shoshu, Nichiren Shoshu & its one-time lay organisation Soka Gakkai.
Here's the brief difference between Nichiren Shu, Nichiren Shoshu & Soka Gakkai:
3 Treasures of Buddhism
- Buddha
- Dhamma
- Sangha
1) Nichiren Shu
- Buddha : Eternal Sakyamuni Buddha
- Dhamma : Mahayana Tripitaka with the Lotus Sutra as base, Namu Myoho Renge Kyo
- Sangha : Nichiren Shonin (with the monastics & lay community)
2) Nichiren Shoshu
- Buddha : Nichiren Daishonin
- Dhamma : The Lotus Sutra, Nam Myoho Rengo Kyo (with emphasize on the Goshos)
- Sangha : Nikko Shonin & successive High Priests
3) Soka Gakkai [2 types]
{A} Official
- Buddha : Nichiren Daishonin
- Dhamma : The Lotus Sutra, Nam Myoho Rengo Kyo (with emphasize on the Goshos)
- Sangha : Nikko Shonin
{B} In Reality
- Buddha : President Daisaku Ikeda
- Dhamma : Writings & Teachings of the President & Soka Gakkai
- Sangha : Soka Gakkai organisation & members
Reason for stating the above 3 organisations is that they are more known thru out the world & are ones with branches in Singapore.
For more info about Nichiren Shu, check out http://nichiren-shu.org/ , Malaysia branch (http://www.nshumy.org/) & Indonesia branch (http://www.nishi.org/)
Homage to the Original Teacher Lord Sakyamuni Buddha
Buddha's Grace,
Supa NagaJust want to add that I found something very relevant to what Thusness commented last time on an SGI member's understanding - that Buddhism is not about Humanism but about Awareness. I think this comment sums up the reason why SGI has deviated from Buddhism. The article I found confuses emptiness and non-self with issues of ethics and social issue. It also does not have a clear understanding of these teachings. It is no wonder that many masters have warned against this sect and considered it unorthodox. And as Loppon Namdrol states:
Whoever is attached to a result for this life, is not a Dharma person.
The purpose of Dharma is liberation, not feeling better in this life. The purpose of Dharma is not the cultivation of mundane compassion, and so on.
The purpose of Dharma is to control afflictions, then overcome them, and finally, to attain a state of total omniscience and freedom.My previous conversation with the SGI member made me realise that SGI has turned the Buddha's dharma into a mundane dharma and cultivation of mundane qualities. For example the SGI book states:
The beings are ignorant of the transitory nature of existence and, as result, grasp after the effects or states, believing them to be permanent. As and when the things or the states change or cease to exist, then the beings suffer due to ignorance
and grasping. Attachment, graving and grasping to “self” as permanent,
surviving and separate entity, generate selfishness, obsessions, further
attachments, competition, hostility, violence, etc. The cure to this
vicious circle is the practice of four Sublime States: (i) loving kindness,
(ii) compassion, (iii) sympathy and (iv) even-mindedness. These are to
be practiced without discrimination between friend or foe, self or other.
This is the very basis of the universal, all round, broad and cosmic
peace.Attachment to "self" as permanent and separate entity is *not* overcome by the cultivation of the 4 Brahma Viharas. These qualities only lead to a heavenly rebirth, but not enlightenment and liberation. This is just mundane dharma and cultivation of mundane qualities, not the investigation and cultivation of insights.
The following paragraph from one of SGI books on Daisaku Ikeda’s teachings points out what I said earlier - it treats teachings like Anatman, Emptiness, etc into a topic of humanism, rather than the arising of prajna wisdom and liberative insight.
The Lotus Sutra, in Mahayana, is interpreted as the great vehicle to
enlightenment. If enlightenment is interpreted as Cosmic Peace, in the
sense of (i) ultimate goal, (ii) the greatest realization, through assimilation
of the “self” with the “universe” and (iii) in which the supreme
attainment is achieved and rests. If the goal of the Lotus Sutra of the
Mahayana is realized through the means of the Pratiya-Samutpåda of
the Hinayana, then one can see a perfect combination of the ends with
means, ideals with material environments, or, in other words, the rational
assimilation of the ideals with needed material conditions. Buddhatva
or Buddhahood, in the sense of Wisdom is the much adored Cosmic
Peace. The followings are the stages for achieving Budhhatva or the
final Cosmic goal:
a) learning and practice, the material condition,
b) attainment of knowledge, the processing function, with means for
achieving the goal, and
c) attainment of Buddhatva or Wisdom, the refined or sophisticated
state of Nirvana or Salvation.
The Prajñåpåramitå or the Perfection of Wisdom Sutras of the
Mahayana Buddhism recognizes the truth of the human existence and
asserts that:
(i) nothing exists in and of itself,
(ii) ultimate truth of existence is ßËnyatå or emptiness, in which
emptiness or ßËnyatå is (a) non-atachment, (b) state or stage,
devoid of any permanent “own-being” and (c) non-duality.
This ßËnyatå or emptyness is the cosmic peace and it is the cosmic
wisdom which involves the cultivation of non-dual and non-multiple
insight into the basic of nature. The Wisdom Sutras of the Mahayana
can be termed as Cosmic Sutras which involve non-dual insight into the
fundamental nature or non-nature. For example, dhammata or qualiti-ness and tathåtå or suchness are the things or stages which are without
duality and hence, emptiness. Nirvana or the cosmic peace is a transmigration
towards emptiness where emptiness is the relaxed stage of
detachment and this stage of detachment is the human fulfillment. This
emptiness is not, however, nihilism, it is a state of non-attachment proceeding
towards the state of fulfillment. The Wisdom Sutras or preachings
encourage and promote the feelings, attitudes, habits and practice
of non-attachment in a person. Non-attachment, in its turn, generates
Non-violence. Non-violence generates stability of mind, heart and body,
by removing the maladies of irritation, anger, revenge, violence and,
finally, the state of imbalance in mind, thought and action. Non-attachment
and non-violence create emptiness, but emptiness is not nihilism, it
enables the generation of the purity of mind, thought and function. Buddhatva
or wisdom is infinite in the sense that it is a continuity with gradual
promotion towards perfection. Buddhatva or Wisdom is, ultimately,
the peace in tranquility and such peace is the peace of non-harm and
non-attachment.
Social Peace is the very starting foundation of the Cosmic Peace.
Mahayana Buddhism motivated its development and promotion on
social balance, or, social equality with equity. As principle and function,
material charity or donation was encouraged and the abolition of
povery was espoused, which could be considered as the very preamble
of social horizontality. Slave trading and sales of liquor were, totally
condemned. Though guilties had to be punished, clemency was also
introduced as a function of forgiveness. Capital and corporate punishments
of all degrees and types were forbidden. The social-spiritual
aspects and norms of the Mahayana Buddhism are motivated for removing
lustre, hatred and delusion.
Japanese Buddhist Nichiren (1222–1282), the profound follower of
Mahayana Buddhism, explained the logic of the practicing or functional
process of the Lotus Sutra of Buddhism, as such:
— it leads to the universal salvation or cosmic nirvana and urged the
nation to return to the following and practicing of this sutra,
— it is transmitted through infinite succession (in the sense of
essence, purity and viability),
— it ends in consciousness, in which all the spheres of realities (or
aspects) are embraced (on the basis of Tendai Doctrine of “Ichinen
Sanzen”), and
— it is the source and way to the Wisdom of Infinite Peace or Cosmic
Nirvana.Nichiren believed that the Buddhatva or Wisdom and Cosmic Peace is
incorporated in the very human body and through proper practice a person
can achieve fulfillment. This concept is based on “Sokushin Jobutsu.”
The insight of the Buddhist Peace Cosmology is based on the close
linkage or association of “anåtman” or selfless and “ßËnyatå” or emptiness.
Both are complementary to each other in function and, when
assimilated or merged both form the unified form of detachment or
“anåßakti” or non-greediness/non-lustre. The Buddhist ethics of social
balance or social peace, an important constituent element of the Cosmic
Whole or Peace, puts much accent on the motivation and rationalized
intention of social function. It holds that the actions constituted and followed
by good intentions will, by virtue of the universal or cosmic order
that structure reality, lead to good and positive results for the individual
and the society. The contrary happens in the inverse situation. Another
salient characteristic of the Buddhist ethics is that it links the adherence
to precept and duties with an emphasis on the rooting out of violence
and vices and cultivation as well as implantation of non-violence and
virtues. Shakyamuni or Gautama Buddha urged that the common human
beings should follow the Middle Path (or Noble Eightfold Path), consisting
of eight components like:Moral Conduct or ߥla: Right Conduct
Right Speech
Right Livelihood
Right Effort
Mental Discipline or samådhi: Right Meditation
Right Remembrance
Wisdom or paññå: Right Thinking
Right View
The third refuge of Buddhism “Sa∫ghaμ Saraˆaμ Gacchåmi” or following
the path of collectivity, which reflects the philosophy and means
of dependent origination of the Praticca or Pratya-Samutpåda and
Theravada, in the sense that “he who protects himself protects others, he
who protects others protects himself,” is the central insights of non-self
and dependent coordination of all realities in the society. Such is the
way of achieving social balance or social peace, or, in other words,
social order. If we define Buddhatva or Bodhi as the Wisdom or Cosmic
Peace, attained by Buddhi or Intuition, this Bodhi or Cosmic Peace
means the attainment of:Awakenness: Use of rationality not to commit violence and harm
Enlightenness: Remain clear to the goal of Peace in Tranquility, and
Awareness: Remain alert against being inflicted by the malices like
violence, anger, greed, hatred, impurity, incorrectness,
etc.2
These are, of course, the functions in and of mind. In the Mahayana
Buddhism, mercy and compassion function as the premordial social values.
These are the virtues of non-violent peace. Mercy denotes the providing
of joyfulness and pleasure to others, compassion relieves others
from sufferings, agonies and depressions. These two aspects, in combined
form, constitute an important element of humanism. -
Originally posted by wisdomeye:
Whatever the mainstream is... i think better to be very careful about saying anything about any of the schools no matter how far from the core principles of Buddhism it seems. The reason i say this is because it is very easy to commit the fault of slandering the dharma or abandoning the dharma.For learning, it is best to stick to standard curriculum if you have the affinity to meet it.
Just a note, abandoning the dharma or slandering the dharma is one of the main things that prevent one from rebirth in Amitabha's pureland no matter how strong your wish and merit... this is stated in Amitabha's vows itself. Which shows how serious it is.
It is however, very important to point out what true dharma is to others as well so that others have the right understanding.
I am not afraid to criticise when necessary. I just told someone in this morning... I will be open and ready and unafraid to criticise what I see as false and incomplete understandings. Even if it causes controversies. Even if they are from well known masters - because as Thusness said, "spirituality is not about respect". If a certain master (just an example, not having any one in mind right now, though I do see for many years Buddhist masters and teachers who are having Hindu understanding in the guise of Buddhism - however this is another issue, unrelated to SGI) is teaching something not in line dharma, I will be quick to point out so that others can discern the truth.
However it should be noted that my criticism of SGI does not extend to the entirety of Nichiren Buddhism.
-
Hi
I think the Diamond Sutra is very interesting. According to Tien Tai Master Chih I analysis, this sutra is classified under Prajnaparamita teaching where Buddha taught the disciples meaning of emptiness. With complete explanation, on the wisdom and method path to Buddhahood.
Without a shadow of doubt, Hui Neng is enlightened. He is the only Chinese Master ever cannon his sermon into a sutra form known as 6th Patriarch Hui Neng Sutra.
However, I would like to point out that this enlightenment is different from Historical Shayamuni Buddha enlightenment. There is ONLY ONE BUDDHA in this world. It is like a man walking on the beach. Each step he take will produce a imprinted foot step. All others great master can follow the imprinted foot step on the sand. Only Buddha is the true blue walker. All the great master that follow are not able to claim that they are the Buddha.They can claim that they have a glimpse of the enlightenment through following the Buddha footsteps.
In fact, Dr KK Tan, the famous meditation teacher, has define the enlightenment as a "breakthrough from this dualistic world to the non-dualistic realm of Reality." In other word, Oneness with all and everything.
So are you enlighten? I am not. However, as one continue to practice allowing the seed of Buddhahood to grow by making qualitative changes in our Body Speech and Mind. Eventually, we will gain the enlightenment that all the great master has accomplished.
Gassho
-
Originally posted by As romanista2001:
so this Hui Neng is now an entity almost like Buddha ???? maybe i don't fully understand the phrase ''enlightened''...............
i'm probably wrong but after reading the Diamond Sutra, i find that it's more about Science than anything else...............just like scientists now are saying the universe is just a hologram (illusion)............it's describing the Ultimate Reality at least on our human level.............that's why to me, it makes sense..........
as for this no-self, we humans think far too much and highly of ourselves becoz of ego.............maybe we're just like the characters in a computer game..............we really are no-thing..............
in short, maybe a buddha is one that finally figured out exactly that but the people back in those days wouldn't have been able to understand him so he used the words he used to explain..................i'm quite sure there are a lot more that the Buddha didn't teach becoz there's no practical point in doing so............
I remembered I chanted a scripture but I could not remember the name of the scripture (护国XXX) as I chanted only once and that was during last year's Vesak.
There was a page talking about the planets in the universe but I could not remember exactly how it phrase it. I was too amazed of what I had chanted and still looking at that page while others were already chanting the next page. I was staring at that page and thinking this scripture was written more than 2000 years ago but it could tell us about the planets long before scientist discovered them. It is indeed amazing!
-
Originally posted by wisdomeye:
Romanista2001,Sad to say, definitely can backtrack. It is not that easy to be liberated, you know, takes dedication and perseverance.
alamak..................then what am i gonna do ??? i was banking on ''continuous progress''..................sigh..............
looks like i'm won't be getting off this ''merry-go-round'' for a very long time yet..................sigh................
-
so is pureland within samsara?
below is from Pali canon:-http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_names/s/suddhaavaasaa.htm
Suddh�v�s�
The "Pure Abodes"; a name given to a group of Brahma-worlds - the five highest RÅ«pa worlds - consisting of
- Avih�,
- Atapp�,
- Sudass�,
- Sudassī and
- Akanitth� (E.g., D.iii.237).
There an�g�mī are born, and there they attain arahantship; such an�g�mī are divided into twenty four classes (See, e.g., KhA.182f.; of. PSA. 319; Vsm.710).
Bodhisattas are never born there (SNA.i.50; BuA.224).
The Suddh�v�s� are described as buddh�nam khandh�v�ratth�nasadis�. Sometimes, for asankheyyas of kappas, when no Buddhas are born, these worlds remain empty (AA.ii.808; cf. MA.i.30).
The Buddha is mentioned as having visited the Suddh�v�s� (E.g., D.ii.50). When a Buddha is about to be born, the inhabitants of the Suddh�v�s� insert a knowledge of the signs of a Great Being in the Vedas and teach this among men in the guise of brahmins, calling such knowledge buddhamanta. Men learn it and are thus able to recognize a Great Being (MA.ii.761; SNA.ii.448). The inhabitants of the Suddh�v�s� know how many Buddhas will be born in any particular kappa by observing the number of lotuses which spring up on the site of the Bodhi-pallanka when the earth gradually emerges after the destruction of the world (DA.ii.411). It is the Suddh�v�s� Brahm�s who provide the four omens which lead to a Bodhisatta's renunciation in his last lay life. See, e.g., DA.ii.455f.
however we cannot explain PL like we cannot explain nibbana.
http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Clubs/buddhism/dhammananda/102.htm
-K.Sri Dhammananda
Nibbana is not nothingness or extinction.
What is Nibbana then? It is not easy to know what Nibbana really is; it is easier to know what Nibbana is not.
above is just a part or basic explaination. if one study more, there are more and "layered" understanding to it.
There are four kinds of Nirvana equivalent to the 4 Abodes of PL:
1. Nirvana of pure, clear self-nature = Pure Abode of Good people and good Saints living together.
2. Nirvana with residue = Pure Temporary Abode with residue of Not Knowing, more for Arahants.
3. Nirvana without residue = Pure Abode of Permanent Reward, more for Bodhisattvas.
4. Nirvana of no dwelling = Pure Abode of Eternal Light and Tranquillity, more for Buddhas.One can said the first abode is like samsara's heaven body, yet the bliss is like that of nirvana. For the Bodhisattvas Buddhas, they able to manifest in samsara while dwelling in nirvana, so u said they are in where?
all and all it depend on one's pure quality of the mind. Pureland is Inconceivable.
/\
-
dear AEN,
I'm not saying your viewpts or anyone's viewpoint is wrong. I'm just saying to be careful about our comments, including myself. There are many situations in life when even if you are right, it is not helpful to say. Being right is not all that counts. Furthermore, in the assessment of other schools, it is hard to be sure that one is totally right and in other schools there may be some valid points of dharma, one risks slandering the dharma by making sweeping remarks.
I have often found that although these so-called non-mainstream schools are not totally right, but they have been a stepping-stone for people to come into mainstream Buddhism. So they are playing their part in a way.
I dun know, just writing here so that others can read my opinion and see for themselves.
Humanism or the compassion side of things is considered very important. In Tibetan Buddhism, it is traditionally said that a bird needs two wings to fly, the wing of wisdom of reality and the wing of skilful means of compassion. Without either one, flight cannot take place. Thus in Tibetan Buddhism, great emphasis is placed on humanism too. Humanism is part of Buddhism too.
As i mentioned in an earlier post, Buddhism is all about removing the afflictions in one's mind namely the desire, hatred and ignorance. There are various methods to counteract the afflictions in one's mind. And these have to be counteracted at different levels, several important levels of practices are the practices that are considered as 'humanism'. I shd say that practices like awareness and nature of mind are more used to eliminate the subtlest obscurations of mind. But the grosser obscurations have to eliminated by the other practices included in the so-called 'humanism'
Not everyone is of equal acumen, we must remember that this world has all kinds of people and not everyone is able or interested to put the teachings on awareness into practice, nor is many people capable of resting in the nature of mind all the time, other humanistic practices do play a very important role in developing our spirituality to a higher level.
For instance, i remember HH Dalai Lama has mentioned that if one develops compassion, it takes one's practice of, for instance, tummo (tibetan heat yoga) to a higher level naturally. (He quoted a live example in one of his books, can't remember where).
I have also found from my own experience that when one tries to open one's heart and cultivate compassion and abide in the humanistic disciplines, naturally one's openness is there and the mind is relaxed and helps meditation and so forth. This is highly emphasized by many realised master. Someone like Garchen Rinpoche for instance emphasizes greatly on loving kindness and compassion which naturally leads on to nature of mind.
My point is they are extremely complementary. Actually, love/compassion and faith/devotion when really engaged in thoroughly awakes recognition of nature of mind. These states of mind are very close cousins... heehee...
-
There is one book, "Union of Bodhichitta and Dzogchen" Anyen Rinpoche that speaks alot about this... can read. very very good book.
Also, within it is mentioned, one will invariably face some challenges/tests when on the path of meditation, without the factor of great bodhichitta/compassion, one is likely to fail... I think this is also another pt supporting the need for humanistic practices.
-
Originally posted by As romanista2001:
alamak..................then what am i gonna do ??? i was banking on ''continuous progress''..................sigh..............
looks like i'm won't be getting off this ''merry-go-round'' for a very long time yet..................sigh................
If you believe in Amitabha's Pureland, there's no need to go "merry-go-round". To attain Nirvana in this tempted world is not easy. Thus, we aim to practice in Amitabha's Pureland which is much easier.
-
Originally posted by As romanista2001:
alamak..................then what am i gonna do ??? i was banking on ''continuous progress''..................sigh..............
looks like i'm won't be getting off this ''merry-go-round'' for a very long time yet..................sigh................
-
-
Originally posted by wisdomeye:
dear AEN,
I'm not saying your viewpts or anyone's viewpoint is wrong. I'm just saying to be careful about our comments, including myself. There are many situations in life when even if you are right, it is not helpful to say. Being right is not all that counts. Furthermore, in the assessment of other schools, it is hard to be sure that one is totally right and in other schools there may be some valid points of dharma, one risks slandering the dharma by making sweeping remarks.
I have often found that although these so-called non-mainstream schools are not totally right, but they have been a stepping-stone for people to come into mainstream Buddhism. So they are playing their part in a way.
I dun know, just writing here so that others can read my opinion and see for themselves.
Humanism or the compassion side of things is considered very important. In Tibetan Buddhism, it is traditionally said that a bird needs two wings to fly, the wing of wisdom of reality and the wing of skilful means of compassion. Without either one, flight cannot take place. Thus in Tibetan Buddhism, great emphasis is placed on humanism too. Humanism is part of Buddhism too.
As i mentioned in an earlier post, Buddhism is all about removing the afflictions in one's mind namely the desire, hatred and ignorance. There are various methods to counteract the afflictions in one's mind. And these have to be counteracted at different levels, several important levels of practices are the practices that are considered as 'humanism'. I shd say that practices like awareness and nature of mind are more used to eliminate the subtlest obscurations of mind. But the grosser obscurations have to eliminated by the other practices included in the so-called 'humanism'
Not everyone is of equal acumen, we must remember that this world has all kinds of people and not everyone is able or interested to put the teachings on awareness into practice, nor is many people capable of resting in the nature of mind all the time, other humanistic practices do play a very important role in developing our spirituality to a higher level.
For instance, i remember HH Dalai Lama has mentioned that if one develops compassion, it takes one's practice of, for instance, tummo (tibetan heat yoga) to a higher level naturally. (He quoted a live example in one of his books, can't remember where).
I have also found from my own experience that when one tries to open one's heart and cultivate compassion and abide in the humanistic disciplines, naturally one's openness is there and the mind is relaxed and helps meditation and so forth. This is highly emphasized by many realised master. Someone like Garchen Rinpoche for instance emphasizes greatly on loving kindness and compassion which naturally leads on to nature of mind.
My point is they are extremely complementary. Actually, love/compassion and faith/devotion when really engaged in thoroughly awakes recognition of nature of mind. These states of mind are very close cousins... heehee...
Sorry, I cannot accept what you said entirely.
We can say that compassion aids in the practice of awareness, or that awareness results in a natural compassion. I believe this is what the masters meant.
However we cannot say that purely practicing compassion leads to awareness. There are lots of people in the world who are compassionate but *not* enlightened. How about mother theresa, gandhi, etc? In the Buddhadharma, the Buddha clearly stated that practicing compassion, loving kindness, sympathetic joy and equanimity, i.e. the 4 brahma viharas leads to heavenly or brahma rebirth at most. It cannot lead to liberation.
If a teaching teaches only the 4 brahma viharas, it is no different from any other religion, cos other religions teach this as well. I would not consider it as Buddhism.
Whether they are a stepping stone - perhaps. But it is better to lead people to the right direction from the beginning :) Having right understanding of dharma leads to lifetime (and beyond) of benefit.
-
Originally posted by wisdomeye:
romanista2001,as we practice, if we are doing it right, our karmic creditors (KC) are the first to know, they will come back one by one to claim their debts. They won't let us go to liberation easily. There are many obstacles they create. One of the most common is to utilise your habitual tendencies to trap you. For eg, if your weakness is desire, they will use it to trap you thru others... if you weakness is pride, then they will use that... whatever it is, you name it, they can use it.
some people encounter great obstacles and go off the path completely, some drop into complacency and although it seems to themselves that they are progressing, they are actually in a merry go-round trap. Some are very diligent in their practice but are still trapped because they have not addressed basic ego-clinging and selfishness due to their habitual tendencies from past life and the KC will use that to trap them. For instance, some people like meditation so much and become more and more self-preoccupied and unable to face people/society easily... the KC will encourage that, and feed them with more thoughts to strengthen that pattern...
there are so many ways to go off-track and many people have been trapped and lost alot of valuable time, sometimes years, sometimes a whole life. I personally have seen some. My teacher have told me of many. many of them dun even know they are trapped. they still think they have very good practice etc.
the only way is to be extremely vigilant and rely on advice of teacher wholeheartedly. cos teacher can spot your sidetracks in a way that u will NEVER be able to do so.... but of course, one of the first thing the KC will do is to let you disbelieve your teacher or make you think you r smarter than your teacher, and to disobey the teacher etc.
it is not easy at all, this path. if you want to progress, better have a good teacher to guide you. spiritual practice can turn into something that feeds the ego rather than wake you up, esp in the present times.
Well said, wisdomeye! :)
Only thing I wish to add on and caution is that not every teacher out there is advanced enough to teach, so need to be discerning. Teachers in our world today are also dealing and struggling with their personal life lessons, just like their students and followers. How advanced a teacher is, is not measured by how many followers or students he has. I'm sure people can easily find negative examples in our modern day world today, where clever marketing and charisma attract followers/students easily.
Rainbow Jigsaw of Life
-
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
Sorry, I cannot accept what you said entirely.
We can say that compassion aids in the practice of awareness, or that awareness results in a natural compassion. I believe this is what the masters meant.
However we cannot say that purely practicing compassion leads to awareness. There are lots of people in the world who are compassionate but *not* enlightened. How about mother theresa, gandhi, etc? In the Buddhadharma, the Buddha clearly stated that practicing compassion, loving kindness, sympathetic joy and equanimity, i.e. the 4 brahma viharas leads to heavenly or brahma rebirth at most. It cannot lead to liberation.
If a teaching teaches only the 4 brahma viharas, it is no different from any other religion, cos other religions teach this as well. I would not consider it as Buddhism.
Whether they are a stepping stone - perhaps. But it is better to lead people to the right direction from the beginning :)
Dear AEN,
hopefully, one day, u may be able to experience it for yourself
ok, u can also consider compassion a great complementing factor... no problem... as long as people understand that it is very very impt part of practice.
i think i also explain abit here... compassion leads to a very equanamity based kind of mind, very close to the non-discriminating kind of mind. In that kind of state, something can spark.
Also, compassion creates vast merit and that soaks the mind into a kind of very open state... naturally...
Also, compassion affects one's energy constituents, the details of which, i think is not necessary to mention here.
-
strangely some of the points discussed today in this thread relates to some of the doubts arising these few days during sitting.
a big thank you to everyone who has contributed here :)
-
Originally posted by wisdomeye:
Dear AEN,
hopefully, one day, u may be able to experience it for yourself
About this debate of compassion vs awareness, I'll like to share my input which don't fully represent Buddhism, but more to do with raising of consciousness in general. Just ignore my words if anyone's not keen to know.
Both awareness and compassion are equally important, and need to go hand in hand. Neither is more important than the other, but it really depends on the person's current learning stage (overall, not just in this lifetime) and his outstanding life lessons, to know which one is more crucial to work upon at this time. Someone could have more awareness, but may lose all attachments to this world to the extent of not being able to truly feel and care for people around him, if he's not careful. A compassionate person who doesn't aim to raise his awareness just remains a very caring person. Either cases are not ideal, if the aim is to raise consciousness to the highest level possible.
If one is not compassionate enough, his heart chakra cannot be opened/activated fully. If one does not have enough awareness, his crown and third eye chakras cannot be opened/activated fully. As mentioned in other threads, chakras are mentioned in Tibetan Buddhism. All 7 chakras need to be opened/activated fully to be able to constantly raise consciousness.
In order to raise consciousness, both aspects need to be worked upon and practised in actual life. Advice from 'Higher realms' is: "be more humane". :)
Rainbow Jigsaw of Life