Is Trading In The Stock Market Gambling????
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I assume none of you are business students or been involve in the stock market. Stock market is dangerous only if you gamble. But rather if you know what you are doing things could be different. It also depend actually on the fact that you are investing or speculating. But remember casino is out there to get your money... But stock market constantly the companies in pumping in money for the players. The questions come as to:
If you investing... who are you investing on so that the maximised dividends in pumped into you per dollar value.
If you speculating... who you are buy to ride the waves over those who loss money to you. Of course someone got to loss before you win right? The question is who is smart enough to win most of the time.
I know of people who did depends on the stock market to make quite an substaintial income every month. The objective is not to win all the time... but to win most of the time.
Whereas casino... try reading on statistic or the law of probabilities and you'll understand. -
Sure, you might not get addicted, but some people do become addicted and trade to bankruptcy.Originally posted by dragg:the number of winners in the stock market are few and far between.
generally the winners are the big players. not retail investors.
BUT retail investors like us dont generally get addicted and trade to bankruptcy.
So because not all become addicted it cannot be banned.
Because some do, and addiction is a mental disease where the sufferer has no control over himself; there must be safeguards and these safeguards would include disallowing lending money for speculating in the stock market. -
Stock market is dangerous if you gamble AND if you borrow money to buy the shares.Originally posted by banzie:I assume none of you are business students or been involve in the stock market. Stock market is dangerous only if you gamble. But rather if you know what you are doing things could be different. It also depend actually on the fact that you are investing or speculating. But remember casino is out there to get your money... But stock market constantly the companies in pumping in money for the players. The questions come as to:
If you investing... who are you investing on so that the maximised dividends in pumped into you per dollar value.
If you speculating... who you are buy to ride the waves over those who loss money to you. Of course someone got to loss before you win right? The question is who is smart enough to win most of the time.
I know of people who did depends on the stock market to make quite an substaintial income every month. The objective is not to win all the time... but to win most of the time.
Whereas casino... try reading on statistic or the law of probabilities and you'll understand.
There is no guarantee that a blue chip high flying company cannot collapse overnight like ENRON; REFCO or like local companies PAN ELECTRIC; Citiraya and so on -
every argument has to be supported by statistics, especially to the govt's point of view.Originally posted by casino_king:Sure, you might not get addicted, but some people do become addicted and trade to bankruptcy.
So because not all become addicted it cannot be banned.
Because some do, and addiction is a mental disease where the sufferer has no control over himself; there must be safeguards and these safeguards would include disallowing lending money for speculating in the stock market.
you dont ban something just because it cause addiction. otherwise 4d should have been banned a long time ago.
my argument is still the same. what is the percentage of people going bankrupt due to trading stocks as compared to gambling in casinos? personally i believe that gambling in casino is more addictive and easier to access.
for trading there are already enough safeguards. -
Let me refer you back to the OP:Originally posted by dragg:every argument has to be supported by statistics, especially to the govt's point of view.
you dont ban something just because it cause addiction. otherwise 4d should have been banned a long time ago.
my argument is still the same. what is the percentage of people going bankrupt due to trading stocks as compared to gambling in casinos? personally i believe that gambling in casino is more addictive and easier to access.
for trading there are already enough safeguards.
www.todayonline.com/articles/102231.asp
Obviously the brokers are lending money for gambling; obviously that they have to resort to using the Credit Bureau services because of problems collecting the loans. Using the Credit Bureau service is not cheap mind you.
For gambling, it is a mathematical certainty that people lose in the long run because their luck runs out eventually; how can the brokers be allowed to lend money for gambling? -
the argument is still the same.
how many people actually use credit facilities for trading stocks, be it from the brokers or the banks? -
I do not have the figures as to how many but if we accept there are not many one of the reasons might be that many people got burnt trading stocks using their CPF monies. How many people now use their CPF monies to trade stocks? At one time a big percentage used their CPF monies to trade stocks and lost a huge amount of money.Originally posted by dragg:the argument is still the same.
how many people actually use credit facilities for trading stocks, be it from the brokers or the banks?
Correct me if I am wrong but what you are saying is that:
1. Trading stocks is gambling.
2. One should not borrow money to speculate in stocks.
3. Let the brokers lend money to speculate knowing full well the dangers and the stupidity of borrowing money to gamble because very few will actually use the facilities.
The people who will borrow will most likely be people who have no experience trading stocks and also the new generation that was not burnt during the big CPF money loss to the stock market.
Just as not many people will not run across the highway; we should not ban people from running across the highway?
Just as not many people will commit suicide, we must take away the law that says suicide is a against the law?
Just as not many people will kill people even without the death penalty as long as there is life sentence?
I would think that just because it affects a small group of people (even if that is true, it might very well turn into many people later on); it it is wrong then it should be banned. -
aiya argue for what.....so what if u win the debate? is it tax-deductible?
No right?!
As long as each of us understand that-->to each his own and everyone has their own opinions, wouldnt tt be enough?
Its hard to determine who is more right or who is more wrong..All i can say is...Be it stock market or casino or horse racing or other forms of activities.. there is only so much the gahmen can do...at the end of the day if the person involve has no self control and discretion, ultimately he will still be sucked into the dark side of addiction. -
How many people now use their CPF monies to trade stocks? At one time a big percentage used their CPF monies to trade stocks and lost a huge amount of money.
this i agree because i am one of them. many of my friends lost too.
1. Trading stocks is gambling.
if you buy a share for keeping it is an investment. it is gambling only if you buy it short or contra.
2. One should not borrow money to speculate in stocks.
it depends on the individual. if you are not addicted i dont see why you will resort to that.
3. Let the brokers lend money to speculate knowing full well the dangers and the stupidity of borrowing money to gamble because very few will actually use the facilities. The people who will borrow will most likely be people who have no experience trading stocks and also the new generation that was not burnt during the big CPF money loss to the stock market.
the world dont operate ideally. everything has its pros and cons. money lending is just a tool.
do we ban credit cards facilities because a lot of young people are overspending?
no!! why? because there are more pros than cons. the percentage of people abusing credit facilities is very small. -
Its hard to determine who is more right or who is more wrong..All i can say is...Be it stock market or casino or horse racing or other forms of activities.. there is only so much the gahmen can do...at the end of the day if the person involve has no self control and discretion, ultimately he will still be sucked into the dark side of addiction.
i agree.
the only thing the govt can do is to put safeguards in place and set limits. -
It is not a question of who is more right or more wrong. These debates will help the people form a national consciousness as to what is acceptable and what is not and the boundaries therein.
I strongly disagree that just because only a few might be affected (at this point we still do not know how many); it is a clear and present danger. There is no upside to lending money for gambling.
As for Credit Cards, it cannot be banned because we cannot identify who the overspenders are going to be.
Not in this case. The money is lent solely for gambling. It must be banned. -
I strongly disagree that just because only a few might be affected (at this point we still do not know how many); it is a clear and present danger. There is no upside to lending money for gambling.
As for Credit Cards, it cannot be banned because we cannot identify who the overspenders are going to be.
Not in this case. The money is lent solely for gambling. It must be banned. [/quote][/b]
how does banning help in this case?
banks provide credit facilities for buying of stocks too. -
Exactly, if you lack the money, don't buy. Stop all these lending for gambling.how does banning help in this case?
banks provide credit facilities for buying of stocks too. -
i am not so concerned with this issue.
i feel the govt should control the issuing of credit cards. the minimum income should be increased as more and more are falling into the debt-trap!!! -
Credit cards is a different issue not suitable for this thread.Originally posted by dragg:i am not so concerned with this issue.
i feel the govt should control the issuing of credit cards. the minimum income should be increased as more and more are falling into the debt-trap!!! -
Just to share my part of my stories on shares. Stock market is an investment. I used to buy short and sell short. A typical contra player. No holding power but buy a lot.
There were good times. Unfortunately, there were 2 occasions that I losed heavily, one was a black monday and Clob issue. I did not suffer 911 cos I was away from the market after 2 heavy lessons. Even my newphew got himself burnt because of marginal call by finance companies.
I will and would not encourage people to go for short term contra type of share investment. Of course, homework still needed. You may be winning now
but one incident can blow you off.
My uncle a primary school qualification only was still making money while we were suffering the loss. Hence, we seeked his advise.
No Contra. Read, Aim, Buy Low, Collect, Sell High, Bye Bye, Wait. 8 steps only. I only practise the 8 steps. (To make it bigger, intermediate buying after collection can be done) Since then, I had reviewed my investment methods. Today, my brother and I are gaining profiting from his way of investment. I was slow, did not invest immediately after 911. However, I had seen 100% above capital myself. My friend had gained from what I told her. You too can do it in the right way by picking the right stock.
Although my uncle had retired and is staying in a HDB flat, his dividend collected is about $60-70k each year. Not talking on the amount of share, he had including malaysia counter. Unknowingly, he is lowerly paid primary school clearer only.
Contra is only for short term gain. Patient investment is for long term even you are a small timer only. -
www.todayonline.com/articles/102231.aspOriginally posted by king108:Just to share my part of my stories on shares. Stock market is an investment. I used to buy short and sell short. A typical contra player. No holding power but buy a lot.
There were good times. Unfortunately, there were 2 occasions that I losed heavily, one was a black monday and Clob issue. I did not suffer 911 cos I was away from the market after 2 heavy lessons. Even my newphew got himself burnt because of marginal call by finance companies.
I will and would not encourage people to go for short term contra type of share investment. Of course, homework still needed. You may be winning now
but one incident can blow you off.
My uncle a primary school qualification only was still making money while we were suffering the loss. Hence, we seeked his advise.
No Contra. Read, Aim, Buy Low, Collect, Sell High, Bye Bye, Wait. 8 steps only. I only practise the 8 steps. (To make it bigger, intermediate buying after collection can be done) Since then, I had reviewed my investment methods. Today, my brother and I are gaining profiting from his way of investment. I was slow, did not invest immediately after 911. However, I had seen 100% above capital myself. My friend had gained from what I told her. You too can do it in the right way by picking the right stock.
Although my uncle had retired and is staying in a HDB flat, his dividend collected is about $60-70k each year. Not talking on the amount of share, he had including malaysia counter. Unknowingly, he is lowerly paid primary school clearer only.
Contra is only for short term gain. Patient investment is for long term even you are a small timer only. -
stocks u need proper planning..
gambling needs luck..
thats the main diff.. -
Thanks for sending this for me to read.Originally posted by casino_king:
No money, don''t play that all. No worth the stress to use credit to gain small margin.
The capital gain may not be sufficient for you to visit the mental / or heart specialist. In a worst case, your name will appear in the new paper inside notices.
So good mah..ask them use themselves...good thing needed no offer..learnt from Chinese -
Originally posted by stellazio:stocks u need proper planning..
gambling needs luck..
thats the main diff..
Stocks needs lots of reading / research and no greed.
Gamble, once on the table 60% lose. Started playing 200% all gone. Lucks won't be with you everydays.
Greed is the main difference. -
Unfortunately that is the illusion that many people have. That with proper planning and study; one can actually predict the direction of the price movement. They do not see that you can plan and study all you want but it still boils down to luck.Originally posted by stellazio:stocks u need proper planning..
gambling needs luck..
thats the main diff..
I am not saying that there is an element of luck; I am saying that it is pure luck all the way. That you win because of planning and study is an illusion. The markets have discounted everything. The unknown cannot be predicted and can only be guessed at and so luck is paramount. When it is dependant on luck, gamblers speculating the stock markets and playing the casino will end up losers, big time.
There is also the problem of "mental illness" that precludes your abilty to control yourself when you are a pathological gambler.
So Problem gamblers should be seeking help even if they are in the winning phase. But they never will until they have attempted suicide.