So many posts on abortions!!!
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Wah, don't just focus on one part of my post yah? Stop being so focused on one thing and look at the big picture. I already said, I'm not saying that abortion is right, nor am I saying pre-martial sex is correct, much less without protection.Originally posted by SnowFlag:The problem is no whether they got shed tears or laughing their way. A baby life is gone because people cannot take stress and irresponsible
So that guy just shed some tears and say he has no choice but to abort the unborn baby. Then we have to pity him n say he is correct? But who will shed tears for the unborn baby who is killed?
What I was saying was more of the fact that guys are affected too when this happens. I'm not saying the guy is correct, but it's more than just a few tears. You'll never understand the emotions BOTH the guy AND the girl have to go through during the whole thing. It's easy for you to say, "Oh, it's wrong of them to have done that." or "They should have used protection." To say something like what you have said shows you have no understanding or maybe even no regard the kind of emotional distress the couple has to undergo.Originally posted by SumOne:Hey there, I hope you won't continue to generalise or stereotype all guys just because of the few outspoken ones here. Whether pre-marital sex or abortion is right in the first place is one issue, but who says that guys don't feel anything when it comes to abortion.
Yes, the baby's pain is real. And all the more the parents are very emotional about what they have to do. Nothing's easy about the abortion, from having to make the decision to abort, to the process of the abortion itself, and having to live with it after. I was just emphasizing that it's not an easy thing for both. And I was using that guy's story as an example.
In this incident, you ask who cries for the baby? I tell you, the guy still cries for the baby. When he sees a little baby girl out in the streets, he can't help but wonder if that's how his baby girl could have been like.
It's easy for you to 'sit on your high horse' and say the things you say now. But it really shows your depth of thinking about the matter. Your attitude now is like blaming the guy for everything (Male-bashing these days is such a farce). If anything, both are to blame. The girl was a willing party too right? Why direct your anger only towards the guy? Not like it helps being mean to both anyway.
Anyway, your post to me was wrongly directed in the first place. Quite obviously you misplaced your anger (just like most feminists these days). But hope you get my reply to you that it's a difficult thing to face, be it the guy or girl. So stop saying people are heartless. If anything, you're the one who's heartless for not acknoledging the emotional distress that people have to undergo. -
Originally posted by Suicine:if you all are so bothered by the unborn baby suffering, might as well go vegetarian.
Well I guess your posts show your regard of human life. If you really can't see the difference here then there's nothing anyone can say to you. Perhaps things will change if it happened to you or to someone you know, I'm not sure. So abortion is just a process to you isn't it?Originally posted by Suicine:what is so special about a human life? i really dun get it. if you are so concerned about the suffering of an unborn baby whose intelligence is comparable to that of a tadpole i dont see why you're not stopping chicken farms. (have you seen how scary those farms are?) -
When parents give birth to their babies, do they see anything special about their babies? Yes, they do and they are also responsible enough to bring us up. Do parents suffer in the process? Yes, they do. And I like the song "Shi Shang Zhi You Ma Ma Hao"Originally posted by Suicine:what is so special about a human life?
The intelligence of an unborn baby is definitely greater than a tadpole. An unborn baby has already started learning and can already smile in the womb. After birth, he/she learns very quickly in its new environment. Her/his intelligence develops much faster than the motor skills which needs years to build up. Can a tadpole's intelliegence even come near?Originally posted by Suicine:i really dun get it. if you are so concerned about the suffering of an unborn baby whose intelligence is comparable to that of a tadpole i dont see why you're not stopping chicken farms.
As long as there are people who are greedy for such things, such farms will continue to exist. Educating people is the way. Yes, I have seen such videos.Originally posted by Suicine:i dont see why you're not stopping chicken farms. (have you seen how scary those farms are?)
Since u say i should also respect the chicken's life, shouldn't u also respect a human life? -
if even the parents don't mind it why should you? care to enlighten me on how human lives are more sacred than animals?Originally posted by SumOne:Well I guess your posts show your regard of human life. If you really can't see the difference here then there's nothing anyone can say to you. Perhaps things will change if it happened to you or to someone you know, I'm not sure. So abortion is just a process to you isn't it? -
When parents give birth to their babies, do they see anything special about their babies? Yes, they do and they are also responsible enough to bring us up. Do parents suffer in the process? Yes, they do. And I like the song "Shi Shang Zhi You Ma Ma Hao"
y should you bother since the parents already weighed the consequences and decided that it is better to abort? are you the mother?The intelligence of an unborn baby is definitely greater than a tadpole. An unborn baby has already started learning and can already smile in the womb. After birth, he/she learns very quickly in its new environment. Her/his intelligence develops much faster than the motor skills which needs years to build up. Can a tadpole's intelliegence even come near?
its definitely not as smart as a pig or something, so why dont u voice out against pig farms? they're as scary as the chicken farms.As long as there are people who are greedy for such things, such farms will continue to exist. Educating people is the way. Yes, I have seen such videos.
there are already videos about abortion as there are videos about chicken farms so why are you voicing out only on the abortion?
Since u say i should also respect the chicken's life, shouldn't u also respect a human life? -
Pls continue with ur intelligent and smart comments....u r a big entertainment to a lot of ppl reading this threadOriginally posted by Suicine:what is so special about a human life? i really dun get it. if you are so concerned about the suffering of an unborn baby whose intelligence is comparable to that of a tadpole i dont see why you're not stopping chicken farms. (have you seen how scary those farms are?)
Brings us lots of laughter. -
I mind the parents and their unborn on the harm that abortion can do.Originally posted by Suicine:if even the parents don't mind it why should you?
You have to ask yourself whether your life is more sacred than animals or not.Originally posted by Suicine:care to enlighten me on how human lives are more sacred than animals? -
y should you bother since the parents already weighed the consequences and decided that it is better to abort?
I bother to explain more.are you the mother?
No, I am a guy
its definitely not as smart as a pig or something, so why dont u voice out against pig farms? they're as scary as the chicken farms.
Because this thread is about abortion, and my nickname isn't called out-of-point.
there are already videos about abortion as there are videos about chicken farms so why are you voicing out only on the abortion? -
baby...
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Tamade, kids invading BAR!!!!!help!!!!!
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There are plenty of kids lurking around Bar. But let's not sidetrack from this thread shall we?Originally posted by MrPaul:Tamade, kids invading BAR!!!!!help!!!!! -
Originally posted by SumOne:Hey there, I hope you won't continue to generalise or stereotype all guys just because of the few outspoken ones here. Whether pre-marital sex or abortion is right in the first place is one issue, but who says that guys don't feel anything when it comes to abortion. Who says the guy has nothing to lose? If the baby is born he has a responsibility to look after the baby and give baby a good life. But if he can't, it's difficult choice to actually agree to killing off his own flesh and blood.
Pregnancy and abortion does affect the guy emotionally at least, although not physically. But heck, it's not an easy time for either of them.
You keep talking about how the girl loses out this and that, spare a thought for the guy too. He didn't want it to happen too. Of course I'm not saying all guys are good guys, but don't make sweeping statements. There are girls themselves who take unwanted pregnancies and abortions very lightly. They're not the type that fool around or what, just that they think lightly of it when they get pregnant. To them it's like ridding an excess flesh.
Just recently, I got to know this guy who had just overcome an abortion with his girlfriend. It was a trying time for both of them and it leaves both guy and girl with emotional scars for life. The guy still cries when he thinks about the daugther he almost had. And he feels sorry that there was no way he could bring up the child.
Not all guys are b@stards.Wah, don't just focus on one part of my post yah? Stop being so focused on one thing and look at the big picture. I already said, I'm not saying that abortion is right, nor am I saying pre-martial sex is correct, much less without protection
Waaa talking about just focusing on one part of your post... laughable... please read all my above post properly and you will see that I say it like it is, that the guys are not spared the trauma and pain of this unforunate situation. Please open your eyes and brain and read before jumping to conclusion and generalise about other people's threads and supposed generalised opinions.
Think about it again... who actaully loose out more? the guy or the girl? and why so?? and you will get the answer and the reason for the above post.
Guy bashing?? Boy sometimes I just dont think that the guy gets enough bashing! I'm a guy and I have been counselling people for the last 15 years on a part time basis and I have the training. man if only you can see what I had seen... guy bashing??? My post is not even close!
"Not all guys are bastards??" its only a matter of degree... and how come you didnt respond when I said that "girls are B-tches" too? arent you guilty of selective reading and generalisation?? please re-read my post and try to understand what it is that I am saying ok.
The girls... you really need to wise up and soon. Abortion is getting too common and plentiful. I mix with plenty of different type of people I have many good frens who are O&G in KK and other places. I have many close frens who are psychiatrists and psychologist. Do you know how much problem emotional and psychological are left behind for the girl to deal with? do you know how much more the girl suffers than the guy?? (again I refer to my earlier threads - I said that it has a significant impact on the guys too).
Geee... please dont misquote me and generalise about me.
It is your choice how you want to live, whether you are for or against abortion... its your life, you live how you choose... everyone has a choice... you can choose freedom and goodness or perversion and bondage... just be prepared tolive with the consequences.
Cheers -
Nevertheless, I have had a lousy nite and still feeling lousy about all these and like I said before, my heart goes out to all 3 parties, the baby, the girl and the guy...
but just in case i get misquoted again... please think about it --- all of them suffer there is no doubt about it but guess between the guy and girl who suffers more in this PREVENTABLE situation??
As it is there are plenty of problems in life that people have to struggle through yet why suffer needlessly through carelessness or a lack of self control and discipline?
So am I anti this or pro that??? NO I am just stating the facts and the way life is! If you choose to sow your seeds be prepared to reap a pregnancy sometime in the future.
once again, my heart goes out to all parties esp the girls who are in this unfortunate situation
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15 years plus training and this is how you deal with people??? Thankfully you're only part time. I must admit I've seen worse, but your arrogance is something else.Originally posted by supercharger:
Waaa talking about just focusing on one part of your post... laughable... please read all my above post properly and you will see that I say it like it is, that the guys are not spared the trauma and pain of this unforunate situation. Please open your eyes and brain and read before jumping to conclusion and generalise about other people's threads and supposed generalised opinions. [/b][/quote]
Gee, that last post was addressed to you, so why are you trying to use it against me? Perhaps of course you're just trying to get back at me for quoting you. Ego can't take it?
You sound pretty worked up. Seems like you're losing your cool and for a supposed, counsellor, I seriously doubt your credentials. Besides, no point boasting here about what you have or might have done. You're letting your anger get the better of you in any case.[b]Think about it again... who actaully loose out more? the guy or the girl? and why so?? and you will get the answer and the reason for the above post.[/b]
I'm not saying what you said isn't true, I'm just saying that the guy does get affected too. And that not all guys are heartless.Guy bashing?? Boy sometimes I just dont think that the guy gets enough bashing! I'm a guy and I have been counselling people for the last 15 years on a part time basis and I have the training. man if only you can see what I had seen... guy bashing??? My post is not even close!
Did you mention that all girls are b*tches? Maybe I missed that thread or post. I think it's not so much of a matter of degree but a matter of perspective here. You're taking the negative approach, whereby you measure a person based on how far from a perfect being he is. Where do you place yourself I wonder."Not all guys are bastards??" its only a matter of degree... and how come you didnt respond when I said that "girls are B-tches" too? arent you guilty of selective reading and generalisation?? please re-read my post and try to understand what it is that I am saying ok.Good advice despite your brash outburst, and I think both guy and girl should understand the need for protection.The girls... you really need to wise up and soon. Abortion is getting too common and plentiful. I mix with plenty of different type of people I have many good frens who are O&G in KK and other places. I have many close frens who are psychiatrists and psychologist. Do you know how much problem emotional and psychological are left behind for the girl to deal with? do you know how much more the girl suffers than the guy?? (again I refer to my earlier threads - I said that it has a significant impact on the guys too).
[quote]
Geee... please dont misquote me and generalise about me.Nobody here misquoted you nor has generalised about you. Quite honestly, from your earlier posts in this thread, your posts seemed rather one-sided and the idea that guys suffered as well wasn't really clear. But it's good now that after my post you have made yourself clearer. I merely wanted to bring up the fact that guys are affected too.
It's a responsibility for both the guy and the girl to use protection.
I'm quite shocked really because I had in no way been hostile to you, yet you choose to come back at me with such aggression. Your 'enthusiasm' is a little bit misplaced, don't you think? Although I'm not being counselled by you, as a 'counsellor' does being so worked up help anyone? -
Originally posted by supercharger:
Like I said earlier, good that you're making yourself clearer this time. Hope you can become more effective in helping people.
Nevertheless, I have had a lousy nite and still feeling lousy about all these and like I said before, my heart goes out to all 3 parties, the baby, the girl and the guy...
but just in case i get misquoted again... please think about it --- [b]all of them suffer there is no doubt about it but guess between the guy and girl who suffers more in this PREVENTABLE situation??
As it is there are plenty of problems in life that people have to struggle through yet why suffer needlessly through carelessness or a lack of self control and discipline?
So am I anti this or pro that??? NO I am just stating the facts and the way life is! If you choose to sow your seeds be prepared to reap a pregnancy sometime in the future.
once again, my heart goes out to all parties esp the girls who are in this unfortunate situation [/b] -
easy to mix up Suicine, SuperCharger n SumOne.
this thread also got SGLittle_Cat, SGPork n Snowflag -
Originally posted by SnowFlag:
Got Snowflag also.
easy to mix up [b]Suicine, SuperCharger n SumOne.
this thread also got SGLittle_Cat, SGPork n Snowflag
[/b] -
Just want to share this testimony from abortionfacts.com
WHEN THE DOLL BREAKS
Theresa Karminski Burke
I remember meeting Marita my freshman year in college. She was cute, like a cheerleader, and had the same dynamic, enthusiastic "rah rah" personality. Marita had boundless energy. She was fun to be around and had a self-assured style. At the same time, she was still very much a little girl. She missed her parents, made frequent phone calls to her siblings, and had a roomful of cherished childhood dolls carefully displayed on her bed pillows and bookshelves.
The first night we met, Marita told me she would remember my name because Theresa was the name of her favorite doll, now a priceless antique. It had been passed down from her great-great-grandmother and was given to Marita when she was a little girl. Marita handed me the doll, a porcelain collector's dream, gussied up in an ivory silk dress and intricate lace pantaloons. Marita and I became friends instantly and used to share library activities like "scoping" for cute guys behind bookshelves.
One night at a drunken fraternity party, Marita found herself having sex with her boyfriend. The details were quite foggy. She didn't remember taking her clothes off, but woke up naked next to the young sophomore. When Marita discovered she was pregnant, she had an abortion immediately and never told a soul, except her boyfriend and her roommate.
When Marita told me about her abortion years later, she explained that her roommate Ruth had taken her to the clinic. Ruth had an abortion as a senior in high school and told Marita it was no big deal. Abortion was common on campus. Lots of girls had them.
After the abortion, Marita's personality changed. She became irritable and began drinking all the time. She skipped classes on a regular basis, preferring to sleep in and snooze off each hung-over depression. Her attitude was cynical and negative, and she wasn't much fun to be around. At that time, I didn't understand what Marita was going through. But there were signs.
One night we gathered at Marita's dorm for a party. We were drinking beers when Marita's boyfriend jumped up and shouted, "It's time for Baby Soccer!" There was a grand applause, reminiscent of the inauguration of gladiator games. Marita brought out several doll heads which had been decapitated from their torsos, rolling them along with her hockey stick for the grand entrance. Everyone started kicking the baby heads around the room in a frenzy of glee and hysterics. They all cheered while gulping drinks and devouring chips.
As the pastime continued, the aggression toward the baby heads became more severe. One girl picked up a doll head and started gouging out its eyes with a dart. Everyone cackled with delight. Ruth began ripping out shreds of another doll's hair while burning its plastic cheeks with her cigarette. This sparked her boyfriend's imagination. He grabbed another doll from the shelf and put the hot ember of his cigarette between the doll's legs, then ripped them off, leaving only a melted and scarred-looking vagina hole. Ruth threw her doll head on the floor, stamping hard on its skull. They continued to kick the baby heads around the room in a hostile display of rage fused with amusement.
I learned that this had become a favorite game in the dorm. My reaction to this symbolic abuse was a sickening feeling in my stomach. I witnessed this traumatic play, unaware at the time of the psychic release of collective tension this game was providing. Desensitized to the authenticity of the game, I laughed along with the others, silently recalling all the "baby in a blender" jokes which proliferated among my friends.
As I picked up one of the doll heads, I was overcome with a vague familiarity. My heart skipped a beat when I identified the doll as "Theresa," the porcelain antique which had once been Marita's prized possession. Her face was cracked, smashed, and splintered, a jigsaw of fractured pieces-nearly unrecognizable. Where the head had been torn from the body there were razor-sharp claws of fragmented china.
Suddenly I felt a genuine, aching grief. I feared that at any minute I might burst into tears. What had happened to this doll "Theresa," passed down through generations of female history within Marita's family? How did this happen? What had happened to my friend?
The trauma was still very much a mystery to me-but I knew that something inside Marita had also been crushed. The desecration was reflected quite ostensibly in the face of her broken doll. I waited nearly a decade to discover the answer to my questions. Learning that Marita had suffered an abortion made everything crystal clear.
*****
Those who study childhood trauma have documented many examples where children work through a traumatic event by recreating aspects of their trauma through playful games, stories and art. Child therapists will often observe children playing with puppets and doll houses to get a sense of what is going on in their minds and families. It can be easier to express an emotional conflict by acting it out through a puppet figure--rather than putting oneself through subjective introspection.
As with my classmates and the game of "Baby Soccer," adults too can engage in symbolic reenactment of a trauma under the disguise of games, art, music, humor, and other amusements. This type of play provided an outlet for grief by replacing it with socially acceptable acts of "baby hatred."
Marita's battered doll reflected the abuse of a little girl-ravaged, disfigured, assaulted and burned. "Baby Soccer" was a sadistic "acting out" of unconscious repressed abortion trauma. A baby haunting her unconscious had become the target to be annihilated. Her battered doll's head was a symbol of this conflict.
It is no surprise that this traumatic play so quickly became an amusement for all to enjoy. Like Marita, many of the young women and men drawn into this game had also lost children to abortion. Many others had lost sisters or brothers to abortion. "Baby Soccer" provided a symbolic means to mock, belittle, and display mastery over the babies who were never allowed to be born but who still haunted their memories.
As the group's enthusiasm for this game demonstrated, the acting out of post-abortion trauma can be contagious. This is especially the case when so many have had a direct experience with abortion. Worse, this attempt to belittle and master babies through play reinforced and internalized attitudes and behaviors of aggression and hostility against babies.
If the college authorities had seen students beating up and defacing an effigy of a black person, or a symbol of Jewish heritage, would they not have felt compelled to intervene against this frightful and shocking symbolism? But what is said about the intolerance and contempt displayed for babies? It is unlikely that there will ever be a word uttered.
Collective guilt and trauma have the capacity to disguise massive injustice. The offensiveness of "Baby Soccer" was made socially acceptable because it concealed this display of aggression behind the mask of a "humorously irreverent" diversion, so everyone laughed.
We have all learned to snicker at sick jokes and engage in scapegoating because these things give us momentary relief from the tension of unsettled issues. In this case, we were laughing with the nervous giggle of an entire culture that has been traumatized by the abortion of tens of millions of babies. The sheer magnitude of it all is too much to grasp. So it must be trivialized, reduced to laughter and scorn, or else we will all be crushed by the horror of it all.
That is why the belittling of children is all around us. Themes of abortion-related guilt, rage and anger are pervasive in modern music, art and films. "Evil child" movies, like Alien and The Omen, reflect the demonization of children. The "evil baby" is our worst nightmare--something society must destroy before it destroys us.
This is just one of many ways that our culture has been ravaged by the haunting memory of aborted children. Far too many women and men have tried to contain and control this horror through aggression and the rejection of nurturing instincts. They have allowed life-giving, tender, and loving ways to be replaced with mockery, violence, and destruction.
These are the truths recorded for all to see in the broken face of Marita's cherished doll. It was a shattered face. It was the mirror image of Marita's own fractured self.
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Theresa Karminski Burke, Ph.D., is a psychotherapist, author of Rachel's Vineyard, and director of The Center For Post Abortion Healing, P.O. Box 195, Bridgeport, PA 19405, (610) 626-4006. This article is an excerpt from her forthcoming book, Forbidden Grief. Copyright 1997 Theresa Karminski Burke.
Originally printed in The Post-Abortion Review, 6(1), Winter 1988. Copyright 1988, Elliot Institute. -
ermm.. my previous got too long... anyway i was sharing a testimony... don't mind if i share another one from the same website....
Trying to Survive
By Judith Evans
My childhood was brutal. I was abandoned by my father when I was two-and-a-half. Then when he reappeared in my life again at the age of eight, it became worse. I survived incest, starvation, and beatings. I clung to life.
It was the two abortions I had that nearly destroyed me.
When I became pregnant for the fifth time in seven years, my doctor asked me if I really thought I should "continue the pregnancy." Abortion had never occurred to me until he suggested it.
My husband said, "It's your decision. Do what you want," and left for work. Naively, I began looking for women who had had abortions. I wanted to know what to expect. But I couldn't find anyone who would admit to having had one. I asked my doctor and he said, "It only takes a few minutes and it's over."
Having already had four babies, I am now appalled at how ignorant I was about fetal development. My doctor said the baby, at six-and-a-half weeks was "just a blob," and I believed him. I had my first abortion in another state. Afterwards, before I even got home, I began to cry. It didn't help.
I continued to cry after I got home. I cried on my knees beside my bed. When finally I stopped crying on the outside, I kept crying on the inside. I felt so dirty and alone.
Something deep inside of me froze, I think. I dreamed a lot about snow and ice, as well as about babies. I felt cheated, betrayed, and manipulated. I went to counseling and the psychologist said "Forgive yourself," and "Let yourself go on." She didn't say how.
Two years later, I was pregnant again--on purpose. But still, I wanted to die, or at least go crazy so I could escape the torment, the nightmares about babies, the self-disgust, and the degradation I felt. This time I waited until the baby was 12 weeks along before I murdered him. My doctor tied my tubes at the same time, and he said he would never do another abortion. I made him tell me about the baby, just as I had made the man who did the first abortion. (The first one was a girl. She died January 15th. The second was a boy, March 29th. I learned to dread every January and March.)
I wasn't told that there could be complications which wouldn't be discovered for years. I wasn't told that the strength of the suction machine is such that it can turn a uterus nearly completely inside out. I had to have an early hysterectomy because of it.
I wasn't told that after having an abortion an unbelievable self-hatred would consume me and lead to distrust, suspicion, and the utter inability to care about myself, or others--including my four children. I wasn't told that hearing babies cry would trigger such anger that I wouldn't be able to be around babies at all. -
got this from another thread, since we're on abortions anyway.
Sorry but you seem to sound like as if the issue here is a money problem of not spending that few bucks now have to spend more!!!
Its about life, its about a baby like you when you were conceived, its about health and feelings its about so many things else... if your friend isnt prepared to take responsibility dont have sex! simple as that!
But now that its at this stage, really talk to a doctor, call the hotline for counselling. I think you can find the hot line number at Agony Aunt the first 2 thread.
It is now not a time to care about that few hundred anymore. go to a poly clinic if need to. face or no face should not be a concern anymore! Talk to the doctor, talk to the hotline for counselling and you guys decide what to do.
I am sad. for the baby and for your two friends that they should have to suffer through this whole thing. Instead of being an occasion for much joy and celebration, its now treated like a tragedy and a curse! -
And another.
I would suggest that your friend go to a proper hospital or specialist clinic with a surgeical facility. YOu dont want this to be the last pregnancy she is going to have!
Please please please go see a proper doctor. I know many of them at KK and they are very good there. You need proper anaesthesia to undergo something like this. go to the polyclinic and get a referral. that would be the cheapest and the safest.
Please please dont play play. Already one new life is already being lost or threatened. Dont anyhow play with the second one that still has many many years of living to go! abortion is not a routine thing its very damaging to the mother's womb. who is going to be there for the girl??? the girl walks with psychological and mental anguish and the girl... that plus physical damage!!
get counselling then decide. dont just think that abortion is the only way out. there is adoption!
Most important of all, please dont play and dont just take the first suggestion that comes along that seems to relief the emotional and mental pressure... tha tis only an escape! think this through and think about it again. its way too important to take it lightly and based the decision on cost or face or what have you.
take care -
continuing from previous post....
I wasn't told that it would become impossible to look at my own eyes in a mirror. Or that my confidence would be so shaken that I would become unable to make important life decisions. My self-hatred kept me from pursuing my goal of becoming a registered nurse. I didn't think I deserved success.
I wasn't told that I would come to hate all those who advised me to have my abortions, because they were my accomplices in the murders of my babies. I wasn't told that having an abortion with my husband's consent would end up causing me to hate the father of my children, or that I would be unable to sustain ANY satisfying, lasting, fulfilling relationships.
I wasn't told that I could become suicidal in the fall of every year, when both of my babies should have been born. I wasn't told that on the birthdays of my living children, I would remember the two for whom I would never make a birthday cake, or that on Mother's Day I would remember the two who would never send me a card, or that every Christmas I would remember the two for whom there would be no presents.
My abortions were supposed to be a "quick-fix" for my problems, but they didn't tell me there is no "quick-fix" for regrets.
I had gone to my pastor before both abortions. He said the babies were "just blobs" too, so when I went afterwards and asked why I felt so dirty, he said, "God forgives." I asked God to forgive me, and my pastor said He did. But I didn't feel forgiven. I still felt unclean and undeserving.
I went to a psychiatric hospital and they gave me shock treatments. It didn't help.
The nightmares continued. I became a workaholic. Work didn't help. I became a compulsive eater. Food didn't help. I became an anorexic as a form of self-punishment. That came close to killing me; I had two strokes.
I tried alcohol. It only helped temporarily. The torment would still be there when I woke up. That effort to escape the pain only lasted two months.
I worked at a crisis pregnancy center for a year. But that didn't help--three clients aborted. I started the only pro-life organization in southeast Kansas, and was president for a year, and that didn't help.
Three things finally helped. First, I participated in a ten-week post-abortion healing program. At the end of the program, we held a memorial service. We named our babies and entrusted them to God. By formally recognizing their humanity, we were able to complete our grieving process. Our grief wasn't blocked by denial, anymore. It was incredible! It did so much for me.
I took two peach-colored rose buds with me and by the end of the memorial service both buds had opened. I saw in that a sign of reassurance that my children are alive in Heaven with Christ. It was a sign, too, of my forgiveness and my hope.
Second, I took the training to help lead others through the post-abortion healing program. Every time I lead a group, I witness the miracle of God's mercy restoring the joy to these women's lives. That has helped me.
Third, in September of 1997 I received a phone call at two in the morning. A girl in Texas had seen a brochure containing my testimony. She was scheduled to have an abortion at three o'clock the next day. We talked until five in the morning. Then she called back around noon and we talked for another hour. I was so concerned about her. Finally, at five o'clock she called and said she had decided against having the abortion. Finally, I knew with a certainty that God had used my experience to save someone else from making my terrible mistake. That helped a lot.
Healing does not mean forgetting. I will always regret what I did and always miss my babies until the day I am with them in Heaven. But I know now that God can use every part of our lives, even the worst parts, to help us to help others. Praise the Lord. He is kind and merciful. He has done wondrous things in my life.
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Judith would welcome correspondence with anyone whom she can help who is considering an abortion or has had an abortion. She can be reached at [email protected] or (316) 848-3642. -
life is never out of point. be a vegetarian today.Originally posted by SnowFlag:Because this thread is about abortion, and my nickname isn't called out-of-point. -
I mind the parents and their unborn on the harm that abortion can do.
other than the thing about the chance of becoming infertile after abortion i dont see any more harm in it. the guilt the mothers have comes from people like you constantly brainwashing them that it's sinful. does she feel guilty eating that chicken?You have to ask yourself whether your life is more sacred than animals or not.
my life isnt more sacred than an animal's. however, i would still choose my own life over an animal's, just like the animal would choose its own life over mine. -
Life isn't out of point but you are.Originally posted by Suicine:life is never out of point. be a vegetarian today.