Honda Civic 2006
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well, put it this way, u r referring to n0x when replying to me? then, ur answer is equally moot bcos, i have time and again replied in the sg context. and in my earlier posting, i did mention to u to get the facts right with n0x on the leading car in the market etc which n0x himself did reply and made it clear it is in sg terms. if its not clear, pls clear it with him.Originally posted by HENG@:hmm. seeing as the whole point about n0x having raised the issue of the UK civic being a class leader, instead of the sg civic, means we have to take more into account the UK market and the world market right? I didn't ever have any doubt as to which market this discussion is based. If all of u have been talking about sg market all along, then your points are moot because the car which gave rise to the discussion is the UK-spec civic, which is not currently available in sg. I am sure I have my facts right. Um, the question is, do u? I'm not being hostile or anything, I hope u dun see it that way.
u were the one that persisted in giving world answers without really taking into consideration of what u re-quote to reply with. take for eg, ur replies to mine...which is clearly stated sg terms n not world or UK etc. i have not replied u on whether it is UK or otherwise. i too understand and have seen the UK model which in fact is also the same model for the US market segment and in the US market segment, this same civic has over 20 variants to its name.
what i have replied over time is geared more towards the asian market and closer to home - sg. take for eg, the TAS 2006.
in ending, i dun see u as hostile if u didn't think u were or replied to be. i'm merely stating what i have observed from ur replies. that's all. cheers!
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erm, like i said, the entire debate starts from the point of the UK civic. so my point is certainly valid, while yours is pretty moot if all along u've been talking about sg market.Originally posted by tiggersgd:well, put it this way, u r referring to n0x when replying to me? then, ur answer is equally moot bcos, i have time and again replied in the sg context. and in my earlier posting, i did mention to u to get the facts right with n0x on the leading car in the market etc which n0x himself did reply and made it clear it is in sg terms. if its not clear, pls clear it with him.
u were the one that persisted in giving world answers without really taking into consideration of what u re-quote to reply with. take for eg, ur replies to mine...which is clearly stated sg terms n not world or UK etc. i have not replied u on whether it is UK or otherwise. i too understand and have seen the UK model which in fact is also the same model for the US market segment and in the US market segment, this same civic has over 20 variants to its name.
what i have replied over time is geared more towards the asian market and closer to home - sg. take for eg, the TAS 2006.
in ending, i dun see u as hostile if u didn't think u were or replied to be. i'm merely stating what i have observed from ur replies. that's all. cheers!
closer to home for me, is not the sg market nor the TAS 2006. Geneva is closer to home for me.
cheers. -
no worries, if u chose to start from the entire debate when u re-quoted my replies (which is in sg context) only to reply me in the UK context? how moot can that be? let's be real here, n0x has already clarified it to be otherwise?!Originally posted by HENG@:erm, like i said, the entire debate starts from the point of the UK civic. so my point is certainly valid, while yours is pretty moot if all along u've been talking about sg market.
closer to home for me, is not the sg market nor the TAS 2006. Geneva is closer to home for me.
cheers. self-denial? hmmm...
perhaps u dun understand the phrase, speak when spoken to? and in this context, pls when in re-quoting, answer as per the re-quoted. enuf said.
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for a start, lets see... my reply was to n0x, and obviously i would be talking about a worldwide and possibly UK market then. u jump in during the debate, and go on to say u're talking about the sg market? is it any small wonder then, that people didn't even realise u're talking about sg market, even if i quote u, BECAUSE u came in, in the middle of a debate centered around the UK civic and thus the UK market?Originally posted by tiggersgd:no worries, if u chose to start from the entire debate when u re-quoted my replies (which is in sg context) only to reply me in the UK context? how moot can that be? let's be real here, n0x has already clarified it to be otherwise?! self-denial? hmmm...
perhaps u dun understand the phrase, speak when spoken to? and in this context, pls when in re-quoting, answer as per the re-quoted. enuf said. n0x can clarify otherwise, but to begin with, it doesn't make any sense to talk about the UK civic's specs being the leader of the field, AND then go on to quote the sg field to show why that is true isn't it?
u're absolutely right about speaking when spoken to. seeing as u spoke 1st in the middle of the ongoing discussion without being spoken to, i hope u know how to apply that to yourself to prevent future confusions.
meanwhile, I would prefer it if when discussing cars, people here could show some logic. Pointing at the uk spec n saying its the leader of is field and then going to use the sg market to try to justify the UK spec being the field leader just does not hold water folks. Try again.
meanwhile, let me go reset my irony meter. it just shot off the scale when i read your post. -
specs of almost ANY car can be found online. the basis for me to exclude other variants not available in sg in the comparison is for a simple reason. see the first post by n0x. does it look like he was saying THAT civic led the class in UK? i dun think so.Originally posted by HENG@:the specs of all models are available online for anyone to see. The fact is, u CAN compare them spec-wise.
Im saying the civic doesn't lead the field, based on its specs alone, independent of where they are. I have not at any time, pointed to the civic in sg alone and made that claim. in fact, looking at n0x's statement, and putting the entire exchange in perspective, i believe he was making the "leader of the field" comment about the UK civic, which means its more than justified to say it is not a field leader compared to other cars within its field. So certainly, its not biased in anyway. Esp if u look at my previous post in response to tiggersgd, I even said that Jap cars were leaders of many fields during the mid 90s. The fact is, u currently have to give credit to the contis for having taken a huge step in design, and coming out ahead of the japs at the moment.
i can't disagree more when u say that civics do not lead the field, "based on specs alone and independant on where they are." true that u have not singled out the sg civic for comparison. u conveniently converged on the "UK civic" and discounted the other 10-20 odd variants of the 8th gen civic with the verdict "it did not lead the field." even within the civic line, the variants alone are enuff to pit it against several other classes of vehicles. from economical fuel sipping sedans, entry level luxury sedans to pure all out performance hot hatch. i simply do not see the logic nor credibilty of ur comparison.
historically, conti/american cars have been in the car manufacturing market way ahead of the japs. to say that they have taken a "huge" step in design is an understatement. it would be more appropriate to say that they have taken a gigantic step in order to stay ahead of the japs. -
well well...some pride u have. anyway, i dun have to feed ur ego further. u know u have errored but remain adamant abt u being correct. so be it.Originally posted by HENG@:for a start, lets see... my reply was to n0x, and obviously i would be talking about a worldwide and possibly UK market then. u jump in during the debate, and go on to say u're talking about the sg market? is it any small wonder then, that people didn't even realise u're talking about sg market, even if i quote u, BECAUSE u came in, in the middle of a debate centered around the UK civic and thus the UK market? n0x can clarify otherwise, but to begin with, it doesn't make any sense to talk about the UK civic's specs being the leader of the field, AND then go on to quote the sg field to show why that is true isn't it?
u're absolutely right about speaking when spoken to. seeing as u spoke 1st in the middle of the ongoing discussion without being spoken to, i hope u know how to apply that to yourself to prevent future confusions.
meanwhile, I would prefer it if when discussing cars, people here could show some logic. Pointing at the uk spec n saying its the leader of is field and then going to use the sg market to try to justify the UK spec being the field leader just does not hold water folks. Try again.
meanwhile, let me go reset my irony meter. i just shot off he scale when i read your post.
the people in here should have eyes to see. and perhaps its time for u to re-consider whether to press that quote button in future when replying. but then, i think some people in Geneva should just understand the local context b4 shooting their big gap off. sshh...irony meter? ha! try harder... -
btw, this thread starter off with civics similar to local context. if u dun have any inputs then dun start.
u r such a joke. -
i shall end this here. i dun see u have anything constructive in ur replies, particularly to me, in this thread.
gd day! -
i had no idea that the civic not leading the field would be such a sore point of pride amongst many of u. ok for u, being a honda owner, maybe i can understand it some. The fact is, it doesn't set new standards for interior finish, for space utilization, for the way it drives or turns or changes gears(in fact the gear change seems to have become worse). None the less, this is a 4 star car, which, out of 5 stars, i would say is pretty good, seeing as the Focus and the Golf are also 4 star cars. But many of the european cars are setting trends in the above mention areas, which is why even tho the civic is a good and perhaps even very good car, i will not say its leading the field. To say its leading the field, it must be able to prove beyond a doubt that its doing most things better than its competitiors. the fact is, its not. so its not. simple. on the other hand, i could comfortably call it a top player within its field.Originally posted by tailslide:specs of almost ANY car can be found online. the basis for me to exclude other variants not available in sg in the comparison is for a simple reason. see the first post by n0x. does it look like he was saying THAT civic led the class in UK? i dun think so.
i can't disagree more when u say that civics do not lead the field, "based on specs alone and independant on where they are." true that u have not singled out the sg civic for comparison. u conveniently converged on the "UK civic" and discounted the other 10-20 odd variants of the 8th gen civic with the verdict "it did not lead the field." even within the civic line, the variants alone are enuff to pit it against several other classes of vehicles. from economical fuel sipping sedans, entry level luxury sedans to pure all out performance hot hatch. i simply do not see the logic nor credibilty of ur comparison.
historically, conti/american cars have been in the car manufacturing market way ahead of the japs. to say that they have taken a "huge" step in design is an understatement. it would be more appropriate to say that they have taken a gigantic step in order to stay ahead of the japs. -
tsk tsk tsk. some people can't win on logic alone, they must make it personal. so sad. the fact is, i haven't erred. and if im wrong, even tailslide knows i would readily admit it.
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hey, nothing personal hor, i sold my civic more than 3 years ago.Originally posted by HENG@:i had no idea that the civic not leading the field would be such a sore point of pride amongst many of u. ok for u, being a honda owner, maybe i can understand it some. The fact is, it doesn't set new standards for interior finish, for space utilization, for the way it drives or turns or changes gears(in fact the gear change seems to have become worse). None the less, this is a 4 star car, which, out of 5 stars, i would say is pretty good, seeing as the Focus and the Golf are also 4 star cars. But many of the european cars are setting trends in the above mention areas, which is why even tho the civic is a good and perhaps even very good car, i will not say its leading the field. To say its leading the field, it must be able to prove beyond a doubt that its doing most things better than its competitiors. the fact is, its not. so its not. simple. on the other hand, i could comfortably call it a top player within its field.
interestingly, i think the CTRs were doing pretty well on the BTCC against the contis though, only superceded by the current ITRs. dat considered a leader in the field? -
yeah, but its a damn near impossible task. which is why its so fun for me.Originally posted by HENG@:tsk tsk tsk. some people can't win on logic alone, they must make it personal. so sad. the fact is, i haven't erred. and if im wrong, even tailslide knows i would readily admit it. -
good to know.Originally posted by tailslide:hey, nothing personal hor, i sold my civic more than 3 years ago.
interestingly, i think the CTRs were doing pretty well on the BTCC against the contis though, only superceded by the current ITRs. dat considered a leader in the field?
actually, its funny that u bring up BTCC. Because until the ITRs stepped in, the Astras whupped CTR ass.
Vauxhall didn't own the championship from 02 to 04 by losing to the CTRs.
so on that basis alone, nope. not even close.
Say are u watching this year? the Seat looks quite strong. But whats baffling is the MGs, who never looked fast last year, suddenly looking strong! -
hey the point about a debate is to convince me on logic that i am mistaken right? if he can't do that, can't show me logic that is convincing, then blame me meh?Originally posted by tailslide:yeah, but its a damn near impossible task. which is why its so fun for me.
luckily u're around. at least u got the good grace to continue the debate in a civil way, instead of throwing a hussy fit and running off, then accusing me of all sorts of unrelated things. -
okie HENG lets end it here.. i think this thread is turning into a 3 way thingy btw u me and tigersdd.. and its denying other forumites from participating.. not to mention we are so off the topic... so if u want to continue this i think is best we xchange msn and talk there which is faster and more efficient...
i think i saw holy sniper post which is drowned out by all the lengthy entries btw u HENG and tigersdd... so i shall reply to tt
yesh the new o6' FD civic in sg frm kah motor uses ivtec.. i am sure there is cam changing... but i am not sure if there is cam PHASING... can anyone clarify this.. -
Originally posted by n0x:okie HENG lets end it here.. i think this thread is turning into a 3 way thingy btw u me and tigersdd.. and its denying other forumites from participating.. not to mention we are so off the topic... so if u want to continue this i think is best we xchange msn and talk there which is faster and more efficient...
i think i saw holy sniper post which is drowned out by all the lengthy entries btw u HENG and tigersdd... so i shall reply to tt
yesh the new o6' FD civic in sg frm kah motor uses ivtec.. i am sure there is cam changing... but i am not sure if there is cam PHASING... can anyone clarify this.. there ish no more high cams i tink.. -
eh there is still high cam.. tt's why i say still got cam changing.. but i dunno if got cam phasing.. which is what toyota vvti uses..Originally posted by HolySniper: there ish no more high cams i tink.. -
2nd best isn't too bad wad. i'm sure the would have led at some point of the competitionOriginally posted by HENG@:good to know.
actually, its funny that u bring up BTCC. Because until the ITRs stepped in, the Astras whupped CTR ass.
Vauxhall didn't own the championship from 02 to 04 by losing to the CTRs.
so on that basis alone, nope. not even close.
Say are u watching this year? the Seat looks quite strong. But whats baffling is the MGs, who never looked fast last year, suddenly looking strong!
nope. haven't been following the updates on my usual ITR forums in the UK. but i heard the new ITRs were sure damn fast! -
Originally posted by n0x:okie HENG lets end it here.. i think this thread is turning into a 3 way thingy btw u me and tigersdd.. and its denying other forumites from participating.. not to mention we are so off the topic... so if u want to continue this i think is best we xchange msn and talk there which is faster and more efficient...
i think i saw holy sniper post which is drowned out by all the lengthy entries btw u HENG and tigersdd... so i shall reply to tt
yesh the new o6' FD civic in sg frm kah motor uses ivtec.. i am sure there is cam changing... but i am not sure if there is cam PHASING... can anyone clarify this..
sure. what do u wanna talk about? i pm u my msn
on the subject of the i-Vtec, what rpms does the cams activate? -
wah, steal my thunder ah?Originally posted by HENG@:
sure. what do u wanna talk about? i pm u my msn
on the subject of the i-Vtec, what rpms does the cams activate? -
nah, they got spanked bad. where did u get 2nd? 2004, top 2 were VX, then Seat and MG. the CTR finished 5th in the hands of Matt Neal.Originally posted by tailslide:2nd best isn't too bad wad. i'm sure the would have led at some point of the competition
nope. haven't been following the updates on my usual ITR forums in the UK. but i heard the new ITRs were sure damn fast!
If u're talking about manufacturer standings, hey coming 2nd by having a LOT of cars in the field doesn't really count leh. In 03, Seat hadn't even entered the sport yet, which is why honda managed 2nd in the constuctor's and team standing. even so, they were over 200 points off Vauxhall and team honda was over 100 points off VX Racing. Then come 04 when Seat stepped into the fray. Honda might have come 2nd in the manufacturer's standings, but teamwise, Seat Sports came 2nd, WSR (the MGs) came 3rd. Halfords (CTRs) 4th and Team Honda 5th.
The new ITRs? actually some of the old ones from last year have won races this year. The privateers are smart to get their hands on the old Team Dynamics cars. What I'm thinking tho, is the field seems a bit more evenly matched this year. The Seats and the *surprise* MGs have been up there challenging for the win. If Matt Neal doesn't start from the 1st 2 rows, chances are he won't win the race.
To be honest, I do think the primary reason why the ITR is doing so well now is largely attributable to the fact that Matt Neal is driving. That man is a minor legend in BTCC. The other ITRs seldom do as consistantly well, and u often see Matt Neal n his ITR winning, then 2nd to 4th are the Seats and then followed by the MGs.
Personally, using the BTCC as an example of the civic being class leading, is not going to work I must say. I look at it, and there are 4 other models which are more likely to win before the CTR is even given a shot. -
who dare to steal yr thunder?Originally posted by tailslide:wah, steal my thunder ah?
later u turn lao ah beng how? -
haha no what i am saying is cos we are so into this discussion we shld take it somewhere more condusive where tigersdd and me and u can juz whack.. hahaOriginally posted by HENG@:
sure. what do u wanna talk about? i pm u my msn
on the subject of the i-Vtec, what rpms does the cams activate?
no i am wondering if the new FD civic ( the one in kah motors) has cam phasing.. u know tt type where they retard the valve timing and stuff like toyota's vvti... i know there is cam changing in the frist place... -
honestly looking at the sg civic, i must say it looks quite frumpy. makes me wonder how come there is such a distinctive design gap between the sg civic n uk civic.Originally posted by n0x:haha no what i am saying is cos we are so into this discussion we shld take it somewhere more condusive where tigersdd and me and u can juz whack.. haha
no i am wondering if the new FD civic ( the one in kah motors) has cam phasing.. u know tt type where they retard the valve timing and stuff like toyota's vvti... i know there is cam changing in the frist place... -
i'm back!Originally posted by n0x:haha no what i am saying is cos we are so into this discussion we shld take it somewhere more condusive where tigersdd and me and u can juz whack.. haha
no i am wondering if the new FD civic ( the one in kah motors) has cam phasing.. u know tt type where they retard the valve timing and stuff like toyota's vvti... i know there is cam changing in the frist place... who wants a gd whacking?? 
msn arh?? sure...
i've attached another asian (MY) link that writes up on the new FD. 2 models, 1.8 n 2.0S.
http://asia.vtec.net/Reviews/8GCivicFirstDrive/index.html
in the writeup, i dun really see the any cam phasing but if anything is to go by, i'd say i like the sequential shifter or short shifter in the 2.0S model...
cheers.