Honda Civic 2006
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show off? lidat also can show off?Originally posted by toyota-corolla:thank for the comment you people made, my dad confirm getting a Honda Civic 2006 1.8 Vti-s Version.
The advantage is: i can show off to my friend (whose dad currently driving a Toyota Wish (OPC Vehicle), always say that Wish best and ex, now lets compare who more ex!)
The disvantage is: my pocket money have to cut down again, father loan quite a small amount though
its true what they say. the really rich dun even bother showing off.... -
well, my friend always say, wish best ma, always look down on my current ride aka toyota corolla 2001, cause his 1.8 wish i 1.5corolla. he always say his wish very cheap, good FC and reliable cause make in japan and said my corolla made in thailand.Originally posted by HENG@:show off? lidat also can show off?
its true what they say. the really rich dun even bother showing off....
i told him that, yours is OPC car that why cheap, and you dont really drive much so is reliable. and of-course the FC low la. and i tell him, if my car go to scrap yard, i can buy your wish without topping up $$$ -
this kind of thing, no need to show off so much one la. u ownself drive, get a quiet satisfaction can liao. ownself enjoy, if its really better u dun need to say anything he ownself will auto envy. need to boast means its not really as much better as its being said to be.Originally posted by toyota-corolla:well, my friend always say, wish best ma, always look down on my current ride aka toyota corolla 2001, cause his 1.8 wish i 1.5corolla. he always say his wish very cheap, good FC and reliable cause make in japan and said my corolla made in thailand.
i told him that, yours is OPC car that why cheap, and you dont really drive much so is reliable. and of-course the FC low la. and i tell him, if my car go to scrap yard, i can buy your wish without topping up $$$ -
ur assumption that matt would do better in a conti remains as it is. an assumption. till such time that was proven, there is nothing to say that its his driving dat makes the most difference. i'm sure the more respectable conti teams would have loved to pilfer him by now for his skills and there has to be a reason y he chose to stick by a honda. looking at his current results in 2006, i dare say he made the right choice.Originally posted by HENG@:Matt? Oh he has done well in other cars before. His won in a rather crap Nissan Primera. That shows how good he is I think. I believe if he'd been offered a properly supported conti drive, he would have won lots more championships. As it is, he was always the privateer, without factory backing. This driver has not had good cars in his past career, even so, he manhandled a piece of junk to win. I think that says a lot about how much of a factor he is in the current winning combination. U also have to look at how everyone else is doing in the other ITRs and the CTRs also, to know he's a bigger factor than u give him credit for.
If we look CAREFULLY at the sort of contis honda was racing against, then u wouldn't look so deep into it. Seriously hor, the 2001 gen hondas were racing the 1998 Vauxhalls used by the private teams. If a newer car cannot even beat a design 3 years older than itself, i think its even more sia suay, isn't it? The hondas were competitive alright. competitive against uncompetitive machinery. thats the only reason the hondas got as many points as they did. by fielding a LOT of cars, and by the dint that most of the contis were very old vauxhalls, and a quad of uncompetitive Lexuses. Now if the whole field was running with say... the newer gen Astra, I'd imagine that to be a very different story.
Wooooo can u imagine where Honda would have ended up then? with the privateer astras snatching points from them, they wouldn't even have finished above Seat, even with Seat only having 3 or 4 cars!
Actually that brings me to another pt. Seat with 3 or 4 cars only against almost half of a whole field of hondas, yet where teams was concerned, they came in ahead of honda in 04. the only reason they were below in the constructors was because they didn't field more cars. imagine, if the field had a lot more seats also.... i can't imagine where honda would be in the construtors... it'd be tragic!
honestly, yes, what u say does makes me rethink my opinion yes. everytime i have to dig out more facts, everytime i have to rethink, the bar sinks lower. i beseech u to stop before i run out of ground clearance to lower my opinion of the civic any further
hmm... interesting about the S2K. actually i was thinking pitting it against the Beemers in WTCC would be more interesting! Of course seeing as the beemer is also heavier and RWD, which basically means it shares a lot of the disadvantages of the S2k, and yet won the WTCC championship last year, means a lot of those points are probably moot. Also considering how the cars in BTCC and WTCC are almost similiar (the same Seat Leon Rs r in both) If Honda can somehow get a racing version homologated, why not? Spoon HAS GT versions of S2Ks if i remember correctly.
with regards to new technology losing to the old? if ur theory holds water, evos would be eating lancia delta s4's 4 breakfast. fact is, there are so many parameters in making a car go fast on track that it is virtually impossible to preclude the developments that a more "seasoned" car can undergo thoughout it's competitive lifespan. i'd think on the contrary, for a newcomer like the CTR or ITR for that matter, their initial results speaks volumes for their potential. who knows? they might dominate the championship one fine day if they had been given the same time that the contis had to refine their machineries.
u wanna compare past results? historically, hondas have had more pole positions and podium results than seat. 155 podiums versus a pathetic 45 for seat. in fact, the only conti brand that even comes close to honda is renault and the only conti brand that has ever bettered honda's 155 podiums is vauxhall. u tell me thats because they fielded more cars? i think u are just tailoring ur comparison to suit ur arguments. fact is, honda has been holding its weight against the contis in the btcc for well over a decade now.
yup, spoon does have a hard top GT version of the s2k participating in their domestic races. i think having the s2k in the WTCC would be a great platform for honda to enter the fray but apparently, none of the folks there seem interested at the moment. its a shame actually. -
Originally posted by n0x:
do u know how cam phasing works and what its used for in the first place?
hi ernie
sohc or dohc depends on the needs.. most car makers go for dohc for better performance and efficiency.. tt is not always the case i know.. but what i do know is tt car makers keep things simple not by doing away with 1 cam but keeping to inline engines.. as in the case of bmw straight sixes.. eg. the reknowned M3 engine.. though i do know they going into v layout now...
checked through all the V6 going to be introduced and dun see VVTL-i being introduced.. its only [b]DUAL VVT-i which is diff... if u insist.. care to list the engine model...
and finally.. the website u quote me..i cant read jap but if u insists on it using cam pahsing.. then with a SOHC.. it will be extremely difficult to implement... u have to individually vary each rocker on top of increasing length of each rocker when second cam profile kicks in... whereas in the case of DOHC.. u simply vary the speed of the entire cam...[/b] -
put it simply and using toyota's vvti as an eg... cam phasing means to speed up or retard the time the intake valve is being opened or closed.... in vvti's case is up to 30 degress diff.. if i din remember the number wrongly... degree is measured with respect to where the piston is.. so at low revs.. when engine is expelling exhust gas the intake valve remain close.. but at higher revs.. to facilliate efficient breathing... while the engine is expelling exhaust halfway, the intake valve will start to open... there will be a time when both valves are open.. so there is an overlap...Originally posted by tailslide:do u know how cam phasing works and what its used for in the first place?
dual vvt-i means varying valves timing on the intake and exhaust.. similar to bmw's vanos.. but take note tt the rockers doesnt change length as in the case of traditional vtec system..
for more infor read this http://www.ukcar.com/features/tech/Engine/vv/vvt_3.htm
phrasing quite crude.. haha but roughly tt's the case -
For Matt, the problem is, wihin the field, there are a few other talented drivers as well. The years he spent plugging uncompetitive machinery probably put him out of the radar of these teams till recently. Then now he has a car reliable enough to win the championship, why not? Until last year, Yvan Muller, and a few other guys were more than capable of giving him a run for his money, and it makes sense for a team to stick with the ace they know.Originally posted by tailslide:ur assumption that matt would do better in a conti remains as it is. an assumption. till such time that was proven, there is nothing to say that its his driving dat makes the most difference. i'm sure the more respectable conti teams would have loved to pilfer him by now for his skills and there has to be a reason y he chose to stick by a honda. looking at his current results in 2006, i dare say he made the right choice.
with regards to new technology losing to the old? if ur theory holds water, evos would be eating lancia delta s4's 4 breakfast. fact is, there are so many parameters in making a car go fast on track that it is virtually impossible to preclude the developments that a more "seasoned" car can undergo thoughout it's competitive lifespan. i'd think on the contrary, for a newcomer like the CTR or ITR for that matter, their initial results speaks volumes for their potential. who knows? they might dominate the championship one fine day if they had been given the same time that the contis had to refine their machineries.
u wanna compare past results? historically, hondas have had more pole positions and podium results than seat. 155 podiums versus a pathetic 45 for seat. in fact, the only conti brand that even comes close to honda is renault and the only conti brand that has ever bettered honda's 155 podiums is vauxhall. u tell me thats because they fielded more cars? i think u are just tailoring ur comparison to suit ur arguments. fact is, honda has been holding its weight against the contis in the btcc for well over a decade now.
yup, spoon does have a hard top GT version of the s2k participating in their domestic races. i think having the s2k in the WTCC would be a great platform for honda to enter the fray but apparently, none of the folks there seem interested at the moment. its a shame actually.
new technology to dominate the old? no no. new technology DOES dominate the old, which is why honda did as well as they did with the CTR. There are 2 distincts here. the CTR didn't do as well as it should have. the ITRs are doing well no doubt, but its mainly Matt Neals' which is doing well, which shows that his driver skills contribute a lot to the combination.
honda has more pole n podiums over seat? of course of course! seat took such a long break from BTCC! they only rejoined in 2003 again, and during this time honda not notching up those stats then they doing what?
u say honda have held their own weight against contis in the past, that is no doubt. however, im telling u the CTR didn't hold their weight as well, and that is true. If u compare how they did with how the ITRs are doing now, no doubt even u have to admit they could have done better, and disappointed a bit. If it wasn't disappointing, nobody would have switched to the ITRs. -
well I am nt suprised man....I have already shown u tt clip....I doubt a tuned lancer can even get tt kinda Power 2 weight ratio....Originally posted by tailslide:with regards to new technology losing to the old? if ur theory holds water, evos would be eating lancia delta s4's 4 breakfast. -
from wad u juz told me, u dun even know how an engine works in the 1st place.Originally posted by n0x:put it simply and using toyota's vvti as an eg... cam phasing means to speed up or retard the time the intake valve is being opened or closed.... in vvti's case is up to 30 degress diff.. if i din remember the number wrongly... degree is measured with respect to where the piston is.. so at low revs.. when engine is expelling exhust gas the intake valve remain close.. but at higher revs.. to facilliate efficient breathing... while the engine is expelling exhaust halfway, the intake valve will start to open... there will be a time when both valves are open.. so there is an overlap...
dual vvt-i means varying valves timing on the intake and exhaust.. similar to bmw's vanos.. but take note tt the rockers doesnt change length as in the case of traditional vtec system..
for more infor read this http://www.ukcar.com/features/tech/Engine/vv/vvt_3.htm
phrasing quite crude.. haha but roughly tt's the case
u can't "speed up" or "retard" the time the intake valve is opened or closed. u can only ADVANCE or retard the cam itself. when u advance a cam, u basically rotate it a number of degrees forward so that it starts to do its job of opening a valve EARLIER than it would in a combustion cycle. likewise, if u RETARD a cam, u rotate it a few degrees backwards so that the opening of the valves takes place LATER. the period of which the valves stay open depends on the DURATION of the cam lobes which is constant irregardless of whether u phase the cams or not. if u "speed up" one part of the engine (ie cams) u basically have to "speed up" the other engine parts (ie, pistons, crankshaft) to keep up with ur "speed up"
now my next question to u is, do u know how overlap works in the second place?
i find ur explanation of this the most interesting by far "dual vvt-i means varying valves timing on the intake and exhaust". almost anyone can tell me that vvti stands for variable valve timing. wads the point of expanding the whole meaning of dual vvti?
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i guess u are juz taking my words and finding whatever fault there is to shoot me... c,mon la... i got the gist of the idea.. when u ADVANCE/speed up ( hey we dun expect perfect grammer in the place somehow u cant find a word and u use ur own words to substititue) the cam like u say.. aint the vavles being advanced also... so there! i juz go straight to the vavles.. whats wrong with that...Originally posted by tailslide:from wad u juz told me, u dun even know how an engine works in the 1st place.
u can't "speed up" or "retard" the time the intake valve is opened or closed. u can only ADVANCE or retard the cam itself. when u advance a cam, u basically rotate it a number of degrees forward so that it starts to do its job of opening a valve EARLIER than it would in a combustion cycle. likewise, if u RETARD a cam, u rotate it a few degrees backwards so that the opening of the valves takes place LATER. the period of which the valves stay open depends on the DURATION of the cam lobes which is constant irregardless of whether u phase the cams or not. if u "speed up" one part of the engine (ie cams) u basically have to "speed up" the other engine parts (ie, pistons, crankshaft) to keep up with ur "speed up"
now my next question to u is, do u know how overlap works in the second place?
i find ur explanation of this the most interesting by far "dual vvt-i means varying valves timing on the intake and exhaust". almost anyone can tell me that vvti stands for variable valve timing. wads the point of expanding the whole meaning of dual vvti?
of cos the period of vavles stay open is constant la.. unless u talking about vtec cam changing...
and yes u said if i speed up one part of the engine.. u have to speed up other parts too.. okay let me put it in YOUR perfect english.... if i advacne the cam tt is because my engine speed is increasing... so does this make more sense to you...
and wow u said rotate the cam... machiam like so easy one ah.. want to rotate say rotate.. somemore turn backwards.. eh engine operation strictly one directional... if u want to retard u slow it down u dun turn backwards... like i say the degree is with respect to where the piston is..
overlap is so tt when the ehaust gas is leaving the cylinder the intake gas can come in at almost the same time.. for more efficient breathing... at high engine speeds of cos...
and lastly what toyota is offering pple at BM now is vvti which means varying the valve,, oh sorry CAM... at the intake valve ONLY.... dual vvti offered in lexus range then is vary in the intake and exhaust CAM...
get ur facts right b4 starting to offend pple... -
for Honda VTEC and i-VTEC as i heard they perform very well at high revv but very poor at low revv..for Mitsubishi MIVEC the technicans attempted to improve the poor performance at low rev but as a downside it perform poorer in higher revvsOriginally posted by n0x:put it simply and using toyota's vvti as an eg... cam phasing means to speed up or retard the time the intake valve is being opened or closed.... in vvti's case is up to 30 degress diff.. if i din remember the number wrongly... degree is measured with respect to where the piston is.. so at low revs.. when engine is expelling exhust gas the intake valve remain close.. but at higher revs.. to facilliate efficient breathing... while the engine is expelling exhaust halfway, the intake valve will start to open... there will be a time when both valves are open.. so there is an overlap...
dual vvt-i means varying valves timing on the intake and exhaust.. similar to bmw's vanos.. but take note tt the rockers doesnt change length as in the case of traditional vtec system..
for more infor read this http://www.ukcar.com/features/tech/Engine/vv/vvt_3.htm
phrasing quite crude.. haha but roughly tt's the case -
maybe. but if the other conti teams shared ur view, dat matt was "plugging uncompetitive machinery", they would either be blind or completely ignorant bout his driving talents by leaving him out of their team line up. i'd have thought it another way, that he didn't pass up on the opportunity to prove the other teams wrong in his choice of vehicle.Originally posted by HENG@:For Matt, the problem is, wihin the field, there are a few other talented drivers as well. The years he spent plugging uncompetitive machinery probably put him out of the radar of these teams till recently. Then now he has a car reliable enough to win the championship, why not? Until last year, Yvan Muller, and a few other guys were more than capable of giving him a run for his money, and it makes sense for a team to stick with the ace they know.
new technology to dominate the old? no no. new technology DOES dominate the old, which is why honda did as well as they did with the CTR. There are 2 distincts here. the CTR didn't do as well as it should have. the ITRs are doing well no doubt, but its mainly Matt Neals' which is doing well, which shows that his driver skills contribute a lot to the combination.
honda has more pole n podiums over seat? of course of course! seat took such a long break from BTCC! they only rejoined in 2003 again, and during this time honda not notching up those stats then they doing what?
u say honda have held their own weight against contis in the past, that is no doubt. however, im telling u the CTR didn't hold their weight as well, and that is true. If u compare how they did with how the ITRs are doing now, no doubt even u have to admit they could have done better, and disappointed a bit. If it wasn't disappointing, nobody would have switched to the ITRs.
u mentioned that the CTRs are doing as well as they did because of their newer technology, but NOT as well as they were supposed to? now praytell, if they are doing well, den how are they SUPPOSED to do well? the benchmark of performance isn't measured by the technology thats in a car thats for sure. its the results that speak for themselves. and we are not even talking bout matt's results here. i think u need to decide once and for all. is the CTR doing well as a result of having better technology? or or do u consider the new technology lacklustre? it has got to be one of them coz the two conditions are mutually exclusive.
u wanted to compare historical results of seat versus honda. so i gave u a comparison. now u come up with a sorry excuse for seat. wads next? fine, dun tell me beemers, renaults, fiats blah blah have been taking a back seat (pardon the pun) when honda was the only manufacturer notching up the points in their absence? as i have mentioned earlier, no other manufacturer, conti or otherwise, had bettered honda's results of 155 podiums.
in summary, i can only agree with ur last point. ITR rocks!~~~~ -
the ivtec if it has cam phasing.. it will be like toyota's engine.. at low revv the torque is good with FC being veh low...Originally posted by ceecookie:for Honda VTEC and i-VTEC as i heard they perform very well at high revv but very poor at low revv..for Mitsubishi MIVEC the technicans attempted to improve the poor performance at low rev but as a downside it perform poorer in higher revvs
but here is where the reality bites for all vtec lovers.. if without cam phasing and only cam changing.. at lower revs.. the engine is like any odrinary engine without cam varying techniques... so tt's the reason why vtec performs poorly at low revs...
so to quote from a website.. it said.. since for everyday driving we are usually keeping to low revs.. so basically vtec is useless unless u want to redline every gearshfit... -
in the end, tail, u are coloured by yr love of the civic. ok la, seeing as u're an ex-owner, can forgive u.Originally posted by tailslide:maybe. but if the other conti teams shared ur view, dat matt was "plugging uncompetitive machinery", they would either be blind or completely ignorant bout his driving talents by leaving him out of their team line up. i'd have thought it another way, that he didn't pass up on the opportunity to prove the other teams wrong in his choice of vehicle.
u mentioned that the CTRs are doing as well as they did because of their newer technology, but NOT as well as they were supposed to? now praytell, if they are doing well, den how are they SUPPOSED to do well? the benchmark of performance isn't measured by the technology thats in a car thats for sure. its the results that speak for themselves. and we are not even talking bout matt's results here. i think u need to decide once and for all. is the CTR doing well as a result of having better technology? or or do u consider the new technology lacklustre? it has got to be one of them coz the two conditions are mutually exclusive.
u wanted to compare historical results of seat versus honda. so i gave u a comparison. now u come up with a sorry excuse for seat. wads next? fine, dun tell me beemers, renaults, fiats blah blah have been taking a back seat (pardon the pun) when honda was the only manufacturer notching up the points in their absence? as i have mentioned earlier, no other manufacturer, conti or otherwise, had bettered honda's results of 155 podiums.
in summary, i can only agree with ur last point. ITR rocks!~~~~
like u said, the results speak for themselves. Are we talking about honda as a whole, or talking about ONE specific model of CTR that competed from 01 onwards? because looking at results, that ONE model certainly underperformed.
and back in 2002, people would know that they are doing as well as they should, when new works hondas can beat the old works 1998 Astras.(they didnt, n Vauxhall 'owned' the title from 02 to 04) -
and hence its veyr popular during races..and btw vtec engine have slightly higher redline too....Originally posted by n0x:the ivtec if it has cam phasing.. it will be like toyota's engine.. at low revv the torque is good with FC being veh low...
but here is where the reality bites for all vtec lovers.. if without cam phasing and only cam changing.. at lower revs.. the engine is like any odrinary engine without cam varying techniques... so tt's the reason why vtec performs poorly at low revs...
so to quote from a website.. it said.. since for everyday driving we are usually keeping to low revs.. so basically vtec is useless unless u want to redline every gearshfit...
and as i noted in a i-vtec engine(to be precise the CR-V) the FC is damn high and thirsty at 6000rpm...tried and tested, 6k rpm for 30km..i saw the fuel needle went down faster
but anyway the advantage and disadvantage are:
Adv:
Sporty engine note
Good for racing
good at high rev
Downside:
Useless at low rev
High FC at continuously high rev -
u dun need perfect grammer to know that "advance" is different from "speed up". and if u can still tell me that valves can be "speed up" or "advanced", it simply reinforces the fact that u know nuts about engines.Originally posted by n0x:i guess u are juz taking my words and finding whatever fault there is to shoot me... c,mon la... i got the gist of the idea.. when u ADVANCE/speed up ( hey we dun expect perfect grammer in the place somehow u cant find a word and u use ur own words to substititue) the cam like u say.. aint the vavles being advanced also... so there! i juz go straight to the vavles.. whats wrong with that...
wah, u say change cam means change cam ah? change cams muz take out alot of things first u know? i didn't know vtec so "shen" can change cams so fast ah?Originally posted by n0x:of cos the period of vavles stay open is constant la.. unless u talking about vtec cam changing...
another laughing stock. u say that ur engine speed has got to increase in order to advance ur cam? afaik, the intake cam in a K20A can advance or retard 50 degrees relative to the exhaust cam at ANY engine speed. be it high or low. thats how i-vtec works. varying cam timing with variable lift on the fly. both cams can be rotated up to 50 degrees apart from each other while the engine is in operation in a matter of a split second. thats y engines with variable cam timing use a timing CHAIN instead of a timing belt.Originally posted by n0x:and yes u said if i speed up one part of the engine.. u have to speed up other parts too.. okay let me put it in YOUR perfect english.... if i advacne the cam tt is because my engine speed is increasing... so does this make more sense to you...
and wow u said rotate the cam... machiam like so easy one ah.. want to rotate say rotate.. somemore turn backwards.. eh engine operation strictly one directional... if u want to retard u slow it down u dun turn backwards... like i say the degree is with respect to where the piston is..
if cams cannot turn the opposite direction den please explain how u retard the cam? if going by ur explanation that the engine muz slow down then can retard cams means the engine is really retarded.
to put things into perspective, overlap is a measure of the period of time that the both inlet and exhaust valves are held open simultaneously. u have told us that having overlap at high engine speeds helps the engine breath better. so does that mean overlap is useless at other engine speeds?Originally posted by n0x:overlap is so tt when the ehaust gas is leaving the cylinder the intake gas can come in at almost the same time.. for more efficient breathing... at high engine speeds of cos...
u need to study more before u tell ppl to get their facts rightOriginally posted by n0x:get ur facts right b4 starting to offend pple... -
[quote]Originally posted by tailslide:
u dun need perfect grammer to know that "advance" is different from "speed up". and if u can still tell me that valves can be "speed up" or "advanced", it simply reinforces the fact that u know nuts about engines.
i said i gave a rough idea... if u want me to explain the whole freaking thing i can... tt means to say u retard/advance the cam which will also retard/advance the cam cam lobes and thus retard/advance the opening of the valves...nah see happy... wah lau forum leh.. i write in a crude term canliaoz u must come and gah jiao...
wah, u say change cam means change cam ah? change cams muz take out alot of things first u know? i didn't know vtec so "shen" can change cams so fast ah?
eh cam change is a technique of valve varying... not literally take out the whole engine frm its housing and change it la... in tradtional vtec means got 1 high profile and 1 low profile cam.. where the cam lobes are of 2 diff length... or whaever vtec says to increase length of cam lobes..
another laughing stock. u say that ur engine speed has got to increase in order to advance ur cam? afaik, the intake cam in a K20A can advance or retard 50 degrees relative to the exhaust cam at ANY engine speed. be it high or low. thats how i-vtec works. varying cam timing with variable lift on the fly. both cams can be rotated up to 50 degrees apart from each other while the engine is in operation in a matter of a split second. thats y engines with variable cam timing use a timing CHAIN instead of a timing belt.
if cams cannot turn the opposite direction den please explain how u retard the cam? if going by ur explanation that the engine muz slow down then can retard cams means the engine is really retarded
tt's cos K20A has cam phasing AND cam changing same as the toyota's VVTL-i engine found in the celica as ernie said... yes it can vary the intake at ANY engine speed... but of cos u advance the cam at higher speed to facilitate breathing and RETARD it at slower engine speed... and not turn in the opposite direction.. retard is to slow down...... turn backwards.. sheesh..
engine speed slow retard engine speed fast advance.. basic idea...
to put things into perspective, overlap is a measure of the period of time that the both inlet and exhaust valves are held open simultaneously. u have told us that having overlap at high engine speeds helps the engine breath better. so does that mean overlap is useless at other engine speeds?
i juz quote and eg. at higher speed.. at lower engine speed the torque is maximize while FC improve...
u need to study more before u tell ppl to get their facts right
YOU need to study more and get rid of ur "honda vtec is the best" mentality... and learn to treat other fourmites better... -
Hmm Then I am sure u have tn heard of VANOS.....Originally posted by ceecookie:and hence its veyr popular during races..and btw vtec engine have slightly higher redline too....
and as i noted in a i-vtec engine(to be precise the CR-V) the FC is damn high and thirsty at 6000rpm...tried and tested, 6k rpm for 30km..i saw the fuel needle went down faster
but anyway the advantage and disadvantage are:
Adv:
Sporty engine note
Good for racing
good at high rev
Downside:
Useless at low rev
High FC at continuously high rev -
errm, in more ways than one, i miss my old civic. the practicality of 4 doors, the neat flowing lines, and the unbridled screaming of pure vtec resounding in my ears.... the car is still being driven very hard and cared for very well by the current owner. it was a great car for me back then though i should clarify that i'm not comparing THAT civic to the current ones racing in the BTCC.Originally posted by HENG@:in the end, tail, u are coloured by yr love of the civic. ok la, seeing as u're an ex-owner, can forgive u.
like u said, the results speak for themselves. Are we talking about honda as a whole, or talking about ONE specific model of CTR that competed from 01 onwards? because looking at results, that ONE model certainly underperformed.
and back in 2002, people would know that they are doing as well as they should, when new works hondas can beat the old works 1998 Astras.(they didnt, n Vauxhall 'owned' the title from 02 to 04)
i'm not saying that the results of the CTR was anything to brag about. i'm juz saying, granted, in a sea of contis, the CTR held its own against them, though not with fantastic results, but with some respectable records.
not my intention to change the way u feel bout civics eventually, so lets end this debate here and move on. doesn't matter 2 me so long as matt is gonna win the BTCC this year in the ITR.
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Y dun u replace him? I am sure u will do a better job provided u are cured frm arthrithis and ostreoporosis....Originally posted by tailslide:errm, in more ways than one, i miss my old civic. the practicality of 4 doors, the neat flowing lines, and the unbridled screaming of pure vtec resounding in my ears.... the car is still being driven very hard and cared for very well by the current owner. it was a great car for me back then though i should clarify that i'm not comparing THAT civic to the current ones racing in the BTCC.
i'm not saying that the results of the CTR was anything to brag about. i'm juz saying, granted, in a sea of contis, the CTR held its own against them, though not with fantastic results, but with some respectable records.
not my intention to change the way u feel bout civics eventually, so lets end this debate here and move on. doesn't matter 2 me so long as matt is gonna win the BTCC this year in the ITR. -
its the BMW version of it...why? becoz its also high FC at high rev too?Originally posted by AE86tofu:Hmm Then I am sure u have tn heard of VANOS..... -
the prob here is dat u take "advance" and "speed up" to mean the same thing, jumble up ur explanation of how it works in cam phasing, and pretend that it was juz a wrong choice of words?Originally posted by n0x:i said i gave a rough idea... if u want me to explain the whole freaking thing i can... tt means to say u retard/advance the cam which will also retard/advance the cam cam lobes and thus retard/advance the opening of the valves...nah see happy... wah lau forum leh.. i write in a crude term canliaoz u must come and gah jiao...
dats interesting. "cam change is a technique of valve varying". now tell me, how does changing ur cams equate varying of valves? in the first place, ur valves cannot vary. only the amount of LIFT is gets can vary. vtec cam lobes do not increase. u think magic ah? at the correct load and rpm, a set of pins lock the rocker arms so that the big lobes take over the timing. "cam lobes increase in length" dats real funny u know?Originally posted by n0x:eh cam change is a technique of valve varying... not literally take out the whole engine frm its housing and change it la... in tradtional vtec means got 1 high profile and 1 low profile cam.. where the cam lobes are of 2 diff length... or whaever vtec says to increase length of cam lobes..
errm, hello? lost sheep? u dun turn the cam in the opposite direction how to retard it? if u have to "slow down" a cam in order to retard it, are u saying that u gotta slow down the whole engine in order to retard that cam? cam phasing is all about altering the cam angles relative to each other in order to achieve overlap via advance (turning cam forwards) and retard (turning cams backwards). got the cheek to tell me "retard is to slow down"? looks like ur "basic concept" of an engine is really retarded.Originally posted by n0x:tt's cos K20A has cam phasing AND cam changing same as the toyota's VVTL-i engine found in the celica as ernie said... yes it can vary the intake at ANY engine speed... but of cos u advance the cam at higher speed to facilitate breathing and RETARD it at slower engine speed... and not turn in the opposite direction.. retard is to slow down...... turn backwards.. sheesh..
engine speed slow retard engine speed fast advance.. basic idea...
so how does overlap help to improve FC and torque at lower engine speed? more overlap better or less overlap better?Originally posted by n0x:i juz quote and eg. at higher speed.. at lower engine speed the torque is maximize while FC improve...
you need to have some humility when u talk rot blindly. until then, u'll deserve none of the treatment worthy of other forumitesOriginally posted by n0x:YOU need to study more and get rid of ur "honda vtec is the best" mentality... and learn to treat other fourmites better... -
wah ah pek u so hot against the other fella.Originally posted by tailslide:errm, in more ways than one, i miss my old civic. the practicality of 4 doors, the neat flowing lines, and the unbridled screaming of pure vtec resounding in my ears.... the car is still being driven very hard and cared for very well by the current owner. it was a great car for me back then though i should clarify that i'm not comparing THAT civic to the current ones racing in the BTCC.
i'm not saying that the results of the CTR was anything to brag about. i'm juz saying, granted, in a sea of contis, the CTR held its own against them, though not with fantastic results, but with some respectable records.
not my intention to change the way u feel bout civics eventually, so lets end this debate here and move on. doesn't matter 2 me so long as matt is gonna win the BTCC this year in the ITR.
hmm ok la. u feel its respectable, I feel they didn't do as well as most ppl hoped they would.
hmmm this year... season is still far from over. The Seats are looking dangerous, and James Thompson and Jason Plato looking hungry.
Say i never realised it, till one day i was watching 5th gear and it clicked in my head, that the Jason Plato of 5th gear is the same jason plato of BTCC! 5th gear, that channel five equivalent of top gear, which also has tiff and vicki butler in it, u know? -
[quote]Originally posted by tailslide:
the prob here is dat u take "advance" and "speed up" to mean the same thing, jumble up ur explanation of how it works in cam phasing, and pretend that it was juz a wrong choice of words?
dats interesting. "cam change is a technique of valve varying". now tell me, how does changing ur cams equate varying of valves? in the first place, ur valves cannot vary. only the amount of LIFT is gets can vary. vtec cam lobes do not increase. u think magic ah? at the correct load and rpm, a set of pins lock the rocker arms so that the big lobes take over the timing. "cam lobes increase in length" dats real funny u know?
i reccomend a career change.. go be english teacher... not happy with boss izzit.. come forum shoot pple.. veh shiok right.. aim me for a long time already right.. cos i say ur vtec system not good right.. another vtec junkie.. sheesh.. i cant even be bothered liaoz...
errm, hello? lost sheep? u dun turn the cam in the opposite direction how to retard it? if u have to "slow down" a cam in order to retard it, are u saying that u gotta slow down the whole engine in order to retard that cam? cam phasing is all about altering the cam angles relative to each other in order to achieve overlap via advance (turning cam forwards) and retard (turning cams backwards). got the cheek to tell me "retard is to slow down"? looks like ur "basic concept" of an engine is really retarded
go read this.. dun come and bother me.. know how to read english right... know how to see graph right... http://www.geocities.com/gkurka2001/CarTech/vvt_3.htm and pls do go and read.. dun say i dunno anything juz know how to cut and paste.. then start shooting all over the shop...
you need to have some humility when u talk rot blindly. until then, u'll deserve none of the treatment worthy of other forumites
i am humble most of the times esp towards older forumites cos they have been there done that and provide valuable info.. check my postings la.. but u have to ignite the flame in me.. din even critisize u.. next time want to point out pple's mixtake say in a nicer way..cos u might not be all right in the first place... dun open mouth offend pple.. the way u talk is so full of contempt.. why 33 veh old ah.. can go ard claiming to eat salt more than pple eat rice ah... work stress ah.. take it out on family memebers la.... go bar get wasted la... why hide behind screen give pple english lesson... -
Originally posted by n0x:
the problem is, u ARE wrong aint it? he did explain to you rite? is u juz dowan to lose to him that's y u continue findin excuses thus he had to keep on correcting you. stil dare to say want point out ppl's mistake say in a nicer way when u didnt even want to accept his correction to ur post. ur other post speaks alot abt ur 'correct' knowledge too u noe?
next time want to point out pple's mixtake say in a nicer way..cos u might not be all right in the first place... dun open mouth offend pple.. the way u talk is so full of contempt.. why 33 veh old ah.. can go ard claiming to eat salt more than pple eat rice ah... work stress ah.. take it out on family memebers la.... go bar get wasted la... why hide behind screen give pple english lesson...