[Petition] To allow in-vehicle video recording in Taxis
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Just started an online petition to see how many TDs would like to have LTA approve in-vehicle video recording.
Click here to sign the petition, if response is good maybe will forward request to authorities/media.
For those don't know how to click: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/sgtaxispetition/
What the outcome will be we worry later. Just sign if you think they should allow, members can pass the link to others, more signature better. Can be members ouitside this forum.
This is in response to AhTanLor Blog:
http://ahtanlor.blogspot.sg/2012/10/police-said-install-cctvs-in-taxis.html
and his post:
http://sgforums.com/forums/3426/topics/459559
Reference Video from CrimeWatch Episode 7 2012, where Taxi driver was murdered:
This petition is an official request to LTA to allow in-vehicle video recording in Singapore Taxis.
In-vehicle video recording of passengers and drivers, with approved cameras and positions so as to not intrude passengers privacy/decency. Proper signage to inform passengers that vehicle is installed with CCTVs.Due to the increasing numbers of fare runners, abuse to Taxi Drivers (verbally and physically) and false claims and accusation towards Taxi drivers, fellow Taxi Drivers and me have decided to create an online petition.Quote from Episode 7 2012 of CrimeWatch where a Taxi driver was abducted and murdered:DSP Julius Lim said:
"For the safety of taxi drivers, the police will like to urge operators and taxi drivers to install GPS, CCTVs and distress button in your taxis." -
Done .... Already spread to my member to sign up as well
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If I am not wrong, Police accept video evidence from taxi drivers, but LTA does not! if it is not an approved camera. Taxi drivers must install approved cameras. What is the difference between approved and non approved cameras? Is the video clearer?
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My opinion,
ALL TAXIS MUST COME WITH VIDEO RECORDING BUILT IN. FRONT AND BACK + AUDIO RECORDING TOO.
If you have these in buses and Bus Drivers are called Bus captains and they are not SIngaporeans! who served SINGAPORE ARMY!
Only True Blue Singaporeans who served in SIngapore Army can be Taxi Drivers. But Taxi drivers cannot install cameras in Taxis.
Taxi Company and LTA says it is ILLEGAL! Police says is legal. When go to court, depends on judge breakfast.
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members , get a more user friendly petition site .
some which do not need any facebook to log in ....
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do you need to sign a petition to pay more for your video cam...........
LTA will properly approve when you shown them the demand. (that's your petition)
when now LTA approved, 1 side front recording is $3xx (by cdg)
how much are you willing to pay for a LTA approved, 2 side recording devices?
another classic, shooting your own foot.
uniquely....sg taxi driver
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Optimal now now be a good boy ...yu are very fierce and straight....you are gunning down every suggestions for improvement it seems ....are you sure you are not from some organisation that prefered taxi drivers to remain taxi drivers and rather that they dont open their mouth nor brain?
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Originally posted by Tzarh:
Optimal now now be a good boy ...yu are very fierce and straight....you are gunning down every suggestions for improvement it seems ....are you sure you are not from some organisation that prefered taxi drivers to remain taxi drivers and rather that they dont open their mouth nor brain?
do your very best to digest my comment, the rational behind it
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Originally posted by OptimalTrans:
do you need to sign a petition to pay more for your video cam...........
LTA will properly approve when you shown them the demand. (that's your petition)
when now LTA approved, 1 side front recording is $3xx (by cdg)
how much are you willing to pay for a LTA approved, 2 side recording devices?
another classic, shooting your own foot.
uniquely....sg taxi driver
for this , i share the same view as you -
i am not against this issue about having approve video cam in the taxi but there maybe other complicated issue the news is quite sometime ago when the police voice out , did you hear any other concern party voice out too? what going to happen after approval given? i gave an example, one day got a lady pax suspect the recorder is shown at the wrong angle and she complain lta, than lan lan you must spend time off to send in your taxi for check( without given downtime) and loss of income opportunity plus other issue we may not yet to know there are tds here did their own installing already, as long not pointing wrong angle , should not be a big issue
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Originally posted by Angwk7118:
for this , i share the same view as youit's about the matter, not the person
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this looks rather like there are 2 opposition parties in this matter...macam like debate...US presidential debate is over ...now taxi debate just start to get hotter...camping here....
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Originally posted by Poolman:
members , get a more user friendly petition site .
some which do not need any facebook to log in ....
Don't need facebook to log in mah, that one optional.
Just enter name, email, answer "are you a taxi driver", comments optional.
Untick "Show my name .." and it will just show anonymous in the signature page.
My advise untick "Keep me informed ..." if tick then it will email you if got similar petition
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Originally posted by OptimalTrans:
do you need to sign a petition to pay more for your video cam...........
LTA will properly approve when you shown them the demand. (that's your petition)
when now LTA approved, 1 side front recording is $3xx (by cdg)
how much are you willing to pay for a LTA approved, 2 side recording devices?
another classic, shooting your own foot.
uniquely....sg taxi driver
Actually LTA approved does not really increase the price. It's taxi company increase the price... There are other front facing camera (under $150) that is LTA approve, that is much cheaper then what CDG offers.
And there are LTA approve $200-300 which are far better quality then CDG made in china camera..
The only reason i could think of why CDG camera more expensive then the same same camera provided by TC is that CDG requested supplier for encrypted file storage and audio recording off. Supplier just made some firmware changes, which does not cost much actually, and they mark up the price. TC one more ex then if u buy same camera outside is because it includes installation fee. It has nothing to do with LTA approval cert.
I spoke to one local supplier, the LTA approval cert is just to certify its safe to be used in a vehicle, no electrical hazards or any hazards that might hinder or affect drivers view or driving, etc..
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Originally posted by Angwk7118:
i gave an example, one day got a lady pax suspect the recorder is shown at the wrong angle and she complain lta, than lan lan you must spend time off to send in your taxi for check( without given downtime) and loss of income opportunity plus other issue we may not yet to know
there are tds here did their own installing already, as long not pointing wrong angle , should not be a big issue
For those normal 2 lens DVR, of course u would think that there are chances pax would complain like that.
I also using pax facing camera...
There are cameras out there that once installed, driver can't adjust/temper with unless they have the special tool.
Cameras like these that are meant for taxis:
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Nobody likes to be cammed, and especially so if you are a customer, taxis is suppose to be more comfortable and relax for pax, putting a cam need a warning to inform pax of the cam, there might create uneasiness for pax,
And if one Taxis company implement and the other do not, what will happen, in a long run, pax may opts to take the other that do not have cam.
All these needs the large public agreement, not just TD petition alone. If one tiko cabby go cam upshirt of some ladies, then it will term as abuse of right of cam. And the next thing will be ban of all inward view cam in cab.
I agreed that we need to protect ourselves, it is a safety aspect, therefore, my suggestion is that the cam should not be a property of the cabby, it should be provided by taxi companies across the board with LTA approval and in connection with police, the specific location and angle of cam is stated and written so that all paxs knows it. And that it should act like a black box for viewing only in presence of police, taxi companies' respresentatives and the cabby when something offensive happened
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Originally posted by bowah:
I agreed that we need to protect ourselves, it is a safety aspect, therefore, my suggestion is that the cam should not be a property of the cabby, it should be provided by taxi companies across the board with LTA approval and in connection with police, the specific location and angle of cam is stated and written so that all paxs knows it. And that it should act like a black box for viewing only in presence of police, taxi companies' respresentatives and the cabby when something offensive happened
That is what the petition is all about.
Several ways the cam could be installed.
Solution 1:
LTA approve, then taxi company look for their own camera source. Installation have to done according to LTA guidelines on privacy. In no way Taxi driver has direct access to the video. Unless there is an incident. (CDG style)
Solution 2:
LTA approve, several 3rd party company get contract as "Taxi Camera Installer" TD who wish to go to that company to install and bear full cost. Once got incident, TD goes to installation company to extract the video as evidence. There is actually one company in Singapore doing that. They install front facing camera, got issue TD go they extract the video and pass the DVD to driver. When LTA/Traffic police call TD for investigation TD just pass the video as evidence. I won't name the company, but a number of taxis are using their cam. Price wise, that company charge about same as CDG China Cam. but the camera they sell (several models) not made in china and has better resolution
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Originally posted by cyben764:
That is what the petition is all about.
Several ways the cam could be installed.
- LTA approve, then taxi company look for their own camera source. Installation have to done according to LTA guidelines on privacy. In no way Taxi driver has direct access to the video. Unless there is an incident. (CDG style)
- LTA approve, several 3rd party company get contract as "Taxi Camera Installer" TD who wish to go to that company to install and bear full cost. Once got incident, TD goes to installation company to extract the video as evidence. There is actually one company in Singapore doing that. They install front facing camera, got issue TD go they extract the video and pass the DVD to driver. When LTA/Traffic police call TD for investigation TD just pass the video as evidence. I won't name the company, but a number of taxis are using their cam. Price wise, that company charge about same as CDG China Cam. but the camera they sell (several models) not made in china and has better resolution
TD bear full cost for installation? What if TD change taxi or kena terminate. Next TD get free camera?
Company should bear full cost of camera installations in all taxis. I am sure this won't eat too much into their million dollar profits.
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Taxi company bear cost for installation...can no problem...pls wait long long hor...we will submit your request to proper authorities ...wakakakakka wait long long
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irrelevant post
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Originally posted by PS2U:
TD bear full cost for installation? What if TD change taxi or kena terminate. Next TD get free camera?
Company should bear full cost of camera installations in all taxis. I am sure this won't eat too much into their million dollar profits.
That's just an example. Edited the previous post for better understanding.
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More school buses install CCTVs
SINGAPORE: More school buses have installed CCTV cameras to obtain visual evidence in the case of legal disputes.
The Singapore School Transport Association (SSTA) has advised all its 3,000 members to install the CCTVs.
So far, about 100 bus companies, or 3 per cent of the association's members, have done so.
Criminal lawyer James Lee said: "If any incident happens on board the bus, they can see from CCTV whether it was the child who was playful, resulting in own injury, or it was because of the negligence on the part of the attendant. And if things are stolen from the car, you can see (from the CCTV) who the perpetrator is. This will help the police in solving the crime and arresting the offender."
The footage may also come in handy to help clear misunderstandings in the case of traffic accidents.
It's an important issue for bus companies, as damage claims typically make up some 10 to 20 per cent of their operating costs.
But the CCTVs don't come cheap.
For a 40-seater school bus, installing four CCTVs can set the company back by about $3,000.
But smaller buses may only need one camera, at a cost of about $300.
The chairman of the SSTA says the individual bus companies will foot the bill, so the cost will not be passed on to the parents.
- CNA/irEven school buses now using CCTVs
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TS must understand, bus and taxi, never be the same...........that's why even forum also separated...........
I support your motion but I think is impossible to implement..........I did saw few of your in-car video clip, just had to get 1 idiot to pursue, than you will be very busy to explain to the authority...........because currently, our in-car camera CANNOT face inward............
In a bus, the mass area are so big...........but in our taxi, most time is 1 to 1, the implication very complicated la............
Like bowah had said, if really can be done, it will dampen our Taxi business even more...........
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I understand everyones concern, because it's base on cameras that TD can buy online and install themselves like me.
But this petition is for in car camera not like those commonly available.
It's those CCTVs that is not plug and play type. Separately mounted recorder and camera. Camera face front and back. Recorder that is installed elsewhere in the vehicle like MDTs interface box. With lockable SD card or Harddisk, only accessible by authorise people.
Some in car CCTVs also allow interfacing with MDT for remote download of video/images/audio/GPS coordinates/vehicle speed so no need to go back to company if there is an incident. Those with Harddisk can record mostly 30 days of videos and maybe more, especially with increasing Harddisk size.
I'm not petitioning for CCTVs that driver can upload video to YouTube on their own.
Example of the case that the TD was murdered. If the China guy that killed him, never call the family member ask for ransom i think the case would still remain unsolved and the PRC sure fled the country.
They found the cab within a day, but they only get the guy 3-4days after that and found the body only a week, after the guy finally broke down and confessed.
If they had video, i think at least they would have found the body faster and not in a highly decomposed state.
Yes initially public would be afraid of such camera, but i think after a while they would not even notice it. Like cameras in lift.
Cameras also would cut down on false accusation on cabbies, i get a few pax say one destination but actually wanting go another, like ask me go Ang Mo Kio Ave 10, lucky before i turn i asked end up he straight left right left right end up Ang Mo Kio St 12. But the pax ok, what if in that situation, pax end up say i go long/wrong route and complain to company.
Company like CDG would most likely side the pax and TD most likely get warning. If he get too many same warning end up get terminate. At least with such video evidence can avoid such situation.
Downside of CCTVs, cannot do "interview" or let pax "pay" in other ways...
The first possible solution as stated previously, whereby company installed it in cab very difficult, cos company would bear full cost and smaller companies might not have the budget to install. They could make it like a standard equipment like MDT/ Taxi Meter. Where when got problem with MDT/Taxi Meter we go to the taxi meter or MDT company for service/checks.
The second solution, TDs have option to install at authorised centers at their own cost, maybe company subsidies a bit, would most likely be what will happen. But the cost might be high, so only TDs who can afford and want peace of mind would install
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Originally posted by cyben764:It's those CCTVs that is not plug and play type. Separately mounted recorder and camera. Camera face front and back. Recorder that is installed elsewhere in the vehicle like MDTs interface box. With lockable SD card or Harddisk, only accessible by authorise people.
It is precisely this "only accessible by authorise people" thingy that make me think it's not feasible. IIRC, someone here ever mentioned that to view the photo for beating red light from the authority will make you poorer by $300. Correct me if I am wrong.
This $300 is to deter people from demanding to view the photo else TP will be very busy with these sort of requests.
Do you think taxi companies will not take these opportunity to milk the cabby?