Current property price wil 'reduce' birth rate ofSingaporean
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Originally posted by the Bear:
some of them, it's not their own money.. it's their extended clan's money..they see it an investment...
the couple comes in, get PR, throw that money on a house.. and becomes the anchor where they slowly bring the whole clan over
that's the payoff for the clan
I agree in some points there, like the investment part.
She told me they won't stay long in SIN bcos the hubby can;t stand the hot weather, then i ask why buy the flat?
She say the flat can be rented out next time to help generate axtra $$$$$
That's really enlightment me!!
They are well prepared when coming over.......really fucking brilliant!!
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Originally posted by Ä«Õß:¸ïÀë:
I agree in some points there, like the investment part.
She told me they won't stay long in SIN bcos the hubby can;t stand the hot weather, then i ask why buy the flat?
She say the flat can be rented out next time to help generate axtra $$$$$
That's really enlightment me!!
They are well prepared when coming over.......really fucking brilliant!!
china house i unit in peiking, tianjing, shanghai - all 7 digit sing not rmb
these are the rich people
they can be very nice or very nasty to anyone
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
You don't have to look far i don't buy the property cycle. why....simple reason we are still not out of the Wood yet. Property value will go up so long as cheap financing and economics "Growth"
The Growth Factor may not last very long into next year. If N.A is not growing so is a slow down in Trade from Asia.
Cheap financing as you mention keep inflation low rise in interest rate.
overseas wealth fund park where the money is Safe. If we are not enjoying returned to cover the debt. The risk level look equally high.............
The biggest financial news story out of the Europe this summer is getting very little play in the U.S. mainstream press. However, it has the potential to torpedo the European Union (EU), and has disastrous implications for borrowing costs worldwide.
Basically, a miniature banking crisis is festering in Hungary. If it isn't contained, it could grow into a genuine crisis that infects the secondary lending markets around the world.Sorry I don't understand your English:
Cheap financing as you mention keep inflation low rise in interest rate.
overseas wealth fund park where the money is Safe. If we are not enjoying returned to cover the debt. The risk level look equally high.............
Property cycle a not, it does not matter to me actually.
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well if your loan interest rate are low enough your property price will continue to go up. But as inflation creep up those low interest rate are going to evaporate thus property price may stall.
investment return ties to economics growth if they dried up. The long term debt vs liqudity look pretty risky....hence funds will move out of country.
While property cycle does not matter to you but currency depreciation will affect all.
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if currency depreciates, it means it is more worthless, which in turn means your money is worth less and can buy less things.
That means inflation, and property prices will go higher.
Next, loan interest rate is one factor only. One of the major push factor is pple are cash rich. Why? Just look at the number of en blocs. One Farrer Court alone gives an en bloc amount of $2.1 billion, and turn >750 household into millionaire households. Multiply that by the number of en blocs, and you will know how cash rich Singaporeans are. This excludes foreigners coming in to buy >1 properties at one go. They do not need any loan to buy at all.
Property prices will only fall when pple urgently need $$, and need to sell off at fire-sale prices to get quick cash. Unless a credit crunch comes over to sg, else property prices will very usually be sticky downwards.
As a matter of fact, I do not have sufficient funds to buy a full property yet (especially when I want to go for a HDB first). I stand by my view and continue accumulate undervalued REITs because of my reasons. It has been rewarding so far.
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
well if your loan interest rate are low enough your property price will continue to go up. But as inflation creep up those low interest rate are going to evaporate thus property price may stall.
investment return ties to economics growth if they dried up. The long term debt vs liqudity look pretty risky....hence funds will move out of country.
While property cycle does not matter to you but currency depreciation will affect all.
very soon, we are going to watch "free show".
let's just wait patiently.
it is going to happen in mid 2011.
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Anyone facing the same dilemma as me?
Going to get married in 2 years time but do not have a roof over your head because
- BTO must wait 3-5years
- Resale flat f*uking expensive
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Originally posted by longGe:
Anyone facing the same dilemma as me?
Going to get married in 2 years time but do not have a roof over your head because
- BTO must wait 3-5years
- Resale flat f*uking expensive
Like me lor, ROM first loh, get key then ceremony lor.
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Originally posted by ditzy:
Like me lor, ROM first loh, get key then ceremony lor.
Ya loh. Probably that's the only way out le... -
si beh jia lat hor.....?
FT come here buy house bo la sa, we locals buy house think 10 times..... locals macham foreigners in their own land......
CHAM !!!!
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here is
heaven to the rich, hell to the poor
yog - they spent on how much - shake head and give up on them
yog - got nothing to do with me
never benefit me
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this is 1 reason why some people migrate to other countries
housing too "affordable"
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Originally posted by Disman:
this is 1 reason why some people migrate to other countries
housing too "affordable"
Ya.... i agreed.
Ipoh 02 storey semi detached house ONLY 20K~~~25K !!!!
ni na beh...... pi kar haw lan gan......
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Originally posted by Disman:
very soon, we are going to watch "free show".
let's just wait patiently.
it is going to happen in mid 2011.
Wow. GIC should hire you to help them time the market
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Originally posted by Ä«Õß:¸ïÀë:
Ya.... i agreed.
Ipoh 02 storey semi detached house ONLY 20K~~~25K !!!!
ni na beh...... pi kar haw lan gan......
michelle yeow her bungalow like those in the bukit timah one cost sing $2000000.00 per unither monies change into coins count until you siao
so, some ipoh house also not cheap
china their house in some cities also 7 digit sing
kl houses some also not "affordable"
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Originally posted by Disman:
here is
heaven to the rich, hell to the poor
yog - they spent on how much - shake head and give up on them
yog - got nothing to do with me
never benefit me
I do agree YOG is not $ well spent.
I have absolutely zero interest in it.
387 mil spent on it could have been better spent on the more needy
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Originally posted by eagle:
if currency depreciates, it means it is more worthless, which in turn means your money is worth less and can buy less things.
That means inflation, and property prices will go higher.
Next, loan interest rate is one factor only. One of the major push factor is pple are cash rich. Why? Just look at the number of en blocs. One Farrer Court alone gives an en bloc amount of $2.1 billion, and turn >750 household into millionaire households. Multiply that by the number of en blocs, and you will know how cash rich Singaporeans are. This excludes foreigners coming in to buy >1 properties at one go. They do not need any loan to buy at all.
Property prices will only fall when pple urgently need $$, and need to sell off at fire-sale prices to get quick cash. Unless a credit crunch comes over to sg, else property prices will very usually be sticky downwards.
As a matter of fact, I do not have sufficient funds to buy a full property yet (especially when I want to go for a HDB first). I stand by my view and continue accumulate undervalued REITs because of my reasons. It has been rewarding so far.
i think you should take a much broader view. But primary reason SG is too small a pool to substain high value property on its own. Our property has price beyond the market. There will be high property value in SG don't get me wrong but there will be a section of home owners that are marginally stretch will get slaughter.
these days outflow of financial capital is faster than we swallow our lunches.
depreciation of currency will be regionally and not subjected to locally so your appreciation in property value does not necessary take place. Income does not adjust accordingly. But Credit will diminish as fast as depreciation of currency. There is actually Price theory!!!
in any case I agreed foreigner do not need the loan to buy property in SG, but they also do not want to use their money to buy most of them come to SG and take loan if it fail the most they throw the Key back to the bank.
Jobs for the Real "Foreign Talent" will dry up they will leave. It will take a toll on Renter market. Slowly trigger down to ownership.
The recent downturn in North America demonstrate that global work force travel where the jobs goes. I know resume from UK, Europe, NY. L.A. H.K. India, All come to Singapore. There are even headhunter in the US placing jobs in Singapore competing for the headhunter market. It can all go different direction easily.
SG population is only 3.5 - 4 million with properly a workforce of 2.5 million that hasn't changed. Try substained the current value it ain't going to happen!!!
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Originally posted by Arapahoe:
i think you should take a much broader view. But primary reason SG is too small a pool to substain high value property on its own. Our property has price beyond the market. There will be high property value in SG don't get me wrong but there will be a section of home owners that are marginally stretch will get slaughter.
these days outflow of financial capital is faster than we swallow our lunches.
depreciation of currency will be regionally and not subjected to locally so your appreciation in property value does not necessary take place. Income does not adjust accordingly. But Credit will diminish as fast as depreciation of currency. There is actually Price theory!!!
in any case I agreed foreigner do not need the loan to buy property in SG, but they also do not want to use their money to buy most of them come to SG and take loan if it fail the most they throw the Key back to the bank.
Jobs for the Real "Foreign Talent" will dry up they will leave. It will take a toll on Renter market. Slowly trigger down to ownership.
The recent downturn in North America demonstrate that global work force travel where the jobs goes. I know resume from UK, Europe, NY. L.A. H.K. India, All come to Singapore. There are even headhunter in the US placing jobs in Singapore competing for the headhunter market. It can all go different direction easily.
SG population is only 3.5 - 4 million with properly a workforce of 2.5 million that hasn't changed. Try substained the current value it ain't going to happen!!!
Hi, thanks for your views.
There will be high property value in SG don't get me wrong but there will be a section of home owners that are marginally stretch will get slaughter.
Definitely. I agree. But my point is, most are cash rich, so a majority would not be marginally stretched.
these days outflow of financial capital is faster than we swallow our lunches.
Financial planning I guess. For me, it flows in faster. But that's for now.
depreciation of currency will be regionally and not subjected to locally so your appreciation in property value does not necessary take place. Income does not adjust accordingly. But Credit will diminish as fast as depreciation of currency. There is actually Price theory!!!
Depreciation will cause regional properties to appreciate. Sg will appreciate even faster due to higher perceived stability.
Credit diminishing only assumes that buyers need to borrow to buy. But my point again, is that buyers are cash rich; they do not need to borrow much to buy at all!
in any case I agreed foreigner do not need the loan to buy property in SG, but they also do not want to use their money to buy most of them come to SG and take loan if it fail the most they throw the Key back to the bank.
The property prices here are cheap in comparison to their networths.
Also, the en bloc local beneficiaries are still roaming around.Jobs for the Real "Foreign Talent" will dry up they will leave. It will take a toll on Renter market. Slowly trigger down to ownership.
There are just too many pple and too little jobs in the countries these FTs come from. The push factor comes from there.
When some leave, others will enter.
The recent downturn in North America demonstrate that global work force travel where the jobs goes. I know resume from UK, Europe, NY. L.A. H.K. India, All come to Singapore. There are even headhunter in the US placing jobs in Singapore competing for the headhunter market. It can all go different direction easily.
Agreed. But this has been happening all along, and we still have increasing population.
What's more with increased unemployment rates in those western countries.
SG population is only 3.5 - 4 million with properly a workforce of 2.5 million that hasn't changed. Try substained the current value it ain't going to happen!!!
There are people who buy multiple properties without renting or staying in for years. E.g. Peter Lim
btw, Sg population has reached 5 mil.
That said, all my words are just mere words. It's not just the thoughts and ideas and words we have, but the actions we take on our thoughts and ideas and words that will benefit us.
Thanks for reading :)
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Originally posted by Ä«Õß:¸ïÀë:
Ya.... i agreed.
Ipoh 02 storey semi detached house ONLY 20K~~~25K !!!!
ni na beh...... pi kar haw lan gan......
foreigners are here for 2 reasonsexchange rate is higher than their homeland - they earned and retired comfortably back to their homeland
as a platform/jumping board for them to emigrate to other countries in future
one word - here is just surround by sea
some one said - we must welcome the foreigners - ????? - i am stunned by that person speech - you can said anything you want becos your rice bowl totally not affected - really talk cock and sing songs
one word - same people different life
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it is a bubble that is going to burst in time to come. for anything.
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Some of the points raised in this thread about the relevance and role of currency and the property market are nothing short of hilarious and farcical.
Firstly, as any rational mind would understand, the FX market works in pairs - if USDSGD decreases, then obviously SGD-denominated assets would surge in value (this is strictly considering a simple context where the world has only asset denominated in USD and SGD) relative to the USD. The key point here is relativity. How the SGD performs against the CNY or EUR (or any other currency for that matter) could be different relative to various other currencies, which directly influences the purchasing powers of holders of such currencies. Unless you actually have a reliably accurate demographic breakdown of the property buyers (and work on the exclusive premise that such buyers have their assets exposed to just one solitary currency - ie. assume they don't hold significant interests in other currencies which provide a further variable to their overall portfolio's worth - which is unlikely to be the case to begin with) by nationality, how the impact of currencies will have as massive an impact as some morons are making it out to be is beyond me. To illustrate this rationale, if the USD/SGD were to increase by 3%, it does not necessarily guarantee every single currency out there too would rise 3% relative to the USD and maintain its exchange rate parity with the SGD before and after the increase - if that were the case, there wouldn't be a market for FX trades (easily the most highly traded asset class with USD3.2 trillion in turnover daily according to the BIS) and FX traders would be out of jobs!
Secondly, interest rates may do little to weed out inflation in economies where interest rates are not a key facet of monetary policy. Singapore, unlike the US and some major economies out there, does not utilize the interest rate to control monetary policy and by extension, the SGD exchange rate. The SGD is controlled by what's effectively known in the industry as a "dirty peg" - in such an instance, since interest rates are determined by market forces driven by supply and demand, I fail to see how an increase in interest rates would necessarily provide the effect required in stemming property prices. To suggest a burgeoning economy would lead to an increase in demand for properties which will then require the inflation be halted by raising the interest rates is economically senseless in this context - that's effectively doing nothing more than drawing a line of best fit derived from a set of data and arguing that is a sensible way of extrapolating an extension of a set of data whose scope is not necessarily confined to your existing scope of research. By any sensible understanding of the principles of regression, it's necessarily true that the correlation between the line drawn and data obtained must be extremely strong!
Relying on prevailing market trends to halt existing trends is hardly a sensible form of policy-making, is it?
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Thanks for the detail anaylsis on the currencies and trends, etc...
The point is, what do you see the Govt doing in helping people who merely just want to have a roof, and live a average life? I believe not everyone are into all these currency, foreigners, inflations, YOG stuff... it's not dat they are not interested, but dun expect everyone to be a genius, professor or analyst when making a simple decision to spend $ on house or anything..
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read the link below
http://sgforums.com/forums/10/topics/406613
this is one of the reason for low birth rate
There should be no retirement age: MM Lee
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Another global recession likely to hit as early as 2012 but governments will be helpless, financial experts say
http://www.opalesque.com/IndustryUpdates/963/Another_global_recession_likely_to_hit_as_early963.html
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Re: YPAP leader and new citizen Sinha Shekhar complains about low rent of his resale
Moratorium on the renting out of a whole HDB flatQuote:Originally Posted by Son of Singapore
Until HDB flat prices come down to a 'decent level' there ought to be a moratorium on the renting out of a whole HDB flat.
This is because Public Housing ought to remain public, meaning for the good of Singaporeans and whomsoever is granted PR status.
Rich Singaporeans who are staying in pte housing and renting out their HDB flat are hogging public apartments at the expense of poorer Singaporeans who can ill afford public housing, since many such apartments are not appropriately used as citizens housing but as rental houses for profit (foreigners being the principle tenants I believe).
The renting out by SG owners of whole HDB flats would have been acceptable during a period of HDB flat glut, but where such public housing is in short supply (to the extent of impacting upon public housing affordability and thus national birth rates), then the time has come, I think, for a policy change that bars such practice.
(A family may however be allowed to own both pte and HDB properties- but in this case, the family MUST stay in the HDB property- the pte property would then NOT be considered the main abode and as such the owner NOT be entitled the owner occupied property tax discounted rate of 4% rather then the normal p.tax rate of 10%)- failing which, a forced sale of the HDB flat should be enforced.
No owner of a public housing flat should be so distanced from the 'Public Housing' lifestyle that he should choose to live in luxury whilst directly profiting from a 'subsidized' public housing scheme.
One cannot have one's cake and eat it. A family enjoying pte living benefits from BOTH i) property tax discounts for owner occ. property (pte property) ii) rental profit from the renting out their HDB flat (property tax even at full rate is nominal because of govt policy/ discounts etc).
Additional legislature should HDB flat supply still NOT meet population demands would be to restrict the size of HDB flat owned to 'the number of registered inhabitants + 3 rooms'. i.e a single registered 'occupant' may only own an up to 4 room apt etc. (some time exceptions/ concessions may be given to families with deceased members to comply)- this would ensure that all HDB flats are optimally used. Only Citizens and PRs can be reg as 'occupant(s)', foreigners have to be reg as 'tenants' and their numbers do NOT count towards ownership right to a HDB flat for a larger size.
Post script:
- The BAR on renting out of full HDB flats would ensure that ALL foreigners to SG are able to either (i) stay with a Singaporean in a HDB flat (contribute financially to Singaporean family and 'integrate' as well), or, (ii) are of a talent and income sufficient to deserve private housing.
Reference:
- [TR22Jun2010]: 'YPAP leader and new citizen Sinha Shekhar complains about low rent of his resale' [link]