Electronic Engineers in China are paid up to S$90k/yr!!
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Banks only hire engineering grads with 2nd upper honors and above.So they generally absorb the slightly better engin grads.When i mean banks,I mean institutional financial houses,not some engin grad who does administrative clearinghouse work.
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very the farking true...but if u get a general degree then worse....AFAIK, all my NUS friends doing Arts/Sci go do teaching....Originally posted by kops21:It is a fact that people pursuit of career where the big bucks are...(as a general)...
Engineer is no longer as popular as it use to and alot of good engineering folks have left for their pot of gold across other sectors.
working in an engineering firm, i can see that spore born and breed engineers are less than 50% of the workforce.
we just dont have enough folks with relevant experiences locally for the jobs
govt is not doing enough. 
what i see, is the whole engineering industry is getting a hit
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Can give one or two examples that you had experienced? I am not very convinced by just your saying without a concrete example.Originally posted by NuLife:I rmbr when i was studying in UK, i really feel so peiseh that
many sg/malaysian students cant do nuts when it comes to practical.
But when it comes to exams, they score really well.
Esp the malaysians i must say.
A solid and sound proof you must have, especially before you put negative hat on other's head. -
I agree that there is pay gap between areas, be it between cities or between urban or rural areas. However, what I am looking for, is a normal distribution kind of statistics. How many percent of China engineers are getting 90k/year?Originally posted by Glen999:I have the same thought like you. thought that it was a few cases considering that china is a low cost world factory. however, it's wrong. The low cost is in china but not in shanghai / beijing. Such cities are already invaded by big MNCs and there is a big gap between city pay and rural pay. as well as between white collar pay and blue collar pay.
i think you must understand the background. this is the fact.
for example: most of the poeple in singapore stay in HDB/Condo. however, in bukit timah. people stay in landed property.
Of course, there can be several thousands of them, but again you need to take into consideration of their huge population.
Again, in this borderless world village, anyone can just go to go after their dream. Go ahead! If you are a really capable guy, nothing can stop you!
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Yes i sounded arrogant on this, but im stating a fact.Originally posted by findingnewidea:Can give one or two examples that you had experienced? I am not very convinced by just your saying without a concrete example.
A solid and sound proof you must have, especially before you put negative hat on other's head.
Those who had studied overseas will know. -
Well, I do doubt the article too indeed.
It kind of exagerated.
My understanding is that senior engs get about S$2-3+K/mth in china
in cities like SH , BJ. -
i know a few malaysia students are more practical than singaporeans. My one is fact as well and i studied overseas as well.Originally posted by NuLife:Yes i sounded arrogant on this, but im stating a fact.
Those who had studied overseas will know.
so, u mean that i'm liar coz you are not but just arrogant.
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i know 2 companies and found out their pay accidentally. Both are MNCs.Originally posted by NuLife:Well, I do doubt the article too indeed.
It kind of exagerated.
My understanding is that senior engs get about S$2-3+K/mth in china
in cities like SH , BJ.
a lady (who orignates from hong kong) and a local chinese lady are earning more than US9k/month.
Both are ordinary sales staff. Not even a manager. they are responsible for ordering goods from HQ. -
My own experience was that malaysians are worse when itOriginally posted by Glen999:i know a few malaysia students are more practical than singaporeans. My one is fact as well and i studied overseas as well.
so, u mean that i'm liar coz you are not but just arrogant.
comes to practical, mainly bcos those sporeans who studied in UK
are poly grads.
No pt arguing this.
Im sure we both agree that ang mohs are definitely better
when it comes to practical, generally of cos. "p -
What the.... man....Originally posted by Glen999:i know 2 companies and found out their pay accidentally. Both are MNCs.
a lady (who orignates from hong kong) and a local chinese lady are earning more than US9k/month.
Both are ordinary sales staff. Not even a manager. they are responsible for ordering goods from HQ.
i know of a former china colleague who work in sg for a while
and now back in SH.
He told me he is getting same pay as he gets in spore. -
So u are saying the best engineers are thoseOriginally posted by finance_geek:Banks only hire engineering grads with 2nd upper honors and above.So they generally absorb the slightly better engin grads.When i mean banks,I mean institutional financial houses,not some engin grad who does administrative clearinghouse work.
who do not design ICs, Electronics Circuits or Software,
but those who look at dollars$$ everyday????
ha...ok jus kidding..
im sure interest and individual choices make the difference anyways.
While at the same time, my experience was that many
1st class grads are really just so so when
it comes to real EE design work. Some worse than soso.
Im not saying all of cos.
Its just that when a first class honor grad cant do good engineering work,
its really a shame.
Though one thing i feel is that 1st class honor grads are
definitely very hardworking. -
You still didn't give us any concrete example. It is really hard to make us convince.Originally posted by NuLife:My own experience was that malaysians are worse when it
comes to practical, mainly bcos those sporeans who studied in UK
are poly grads.
No pt arguing this.
Im sure we both agree that ang mohs are definitely better
when it comes to practical, generally of cos. "p
I am not convinced at all.
Anyway, to be honest, lousy persons come from every country. I know top guys from Singapore, Malaysia, the States and Europe. At the same time, I know bottom guys from those places too. Not a big deal.
Just not really happy that you 'sink the whole boat with just a single stick'. This is just unfair.
I am just helping the rest to voice it out. -
I already said its generally. If u want examples, this is one:Originally posted by findingnewidea:You still didn't give us any concrete example. It is really hard to make us convince.
I am not convinced at all.
Anyway, to be honest, lousy persons come from every country. I know top guys from Singapore, Malaysia, the States and Europe. At the same time, I know bottom guys from those places too. Not a big deal.
Just not really happy that you 'sink the whole boat with just a single stick'. This is just unfair.
I am just helping the rest to voice it out.
I rmbr we have group projects of 6 per team
to design some projects, which involves Hw and Sw and firmware.
In each team, theres abt 4 angmohs to 2 asians.
The thing is the designs are almost entirely done by the angmohs
with the asians following them (other than my team)
And i still rbr that thou the angmoh are from A 'levels'
with little expereinces in pracitcal,
i was impressed that they feel very comfortable with the
electronic equipments while many asians, esp the malaysians are not.
Moreover, some of the angmohs were actually gals.
but the asian gals were so 'timid'.
U can say or think anything. The truth is always difficult to swallow.
Like what finance_geek said, most students here choose a course
not truly out of interest, which is typical of spore society.
Angmohs eng grads do their FYP with interest and ambition,
while Asians do them becos they have to do it to get the degree.
Of cos there are really really good ones from asia, but im saying
generally.
Betw, have u heard of any local engineering companies
looking for engineers with 10 yrs experiences?
In US, this is common, becos engineering is a repected
and highly paid profession there. -
angmoh is practical, talkative, have many ideas.. and good at courting girls.Originally posted by NuLife:My own experience was that malaysians are worse when it
comes to practical, mainly bcos those sporeans who studied in UK
are poly grads.
No pt arguing this.
Im sure we both agree that ang mohs are definitely better
when it comes to practical, generally of cos. "p
all our SG/MY ladies in uni had western boyfriends. I'm engineering. therefore, had only 3-4 SG/MY girls.
luckily, there was one exception. who was my girlfriend. Took so much effort to fight against angmoh during uni time.. this makes me very proud!!! -
Thanks for giving an example and maintaining a polite discussion atmosphere. This is not everyone can do. I respect that.Originally posted by NuLife:I already said its generally. If u want examples, this is one:
I rmbr we have group projects of 6 per team
to design some projects, which involves Hw and Sw and firmware.
In each team, theres abt 4 angmohs to 2 asians.
The thing is the designs are almost entirely done by the angmohs
with the asians following them (other than my team)
And i still rbr that thou the angmoh are from A 'levels'
with little expereinces in pracitcal,
i was impressed that they feel very comfortable with the
electronic equipments while many asians, esp the malaysians are not.
Moreover, some of the angmohs were actually gals.
but the asian gals were so 'timid'.
U can say or think anything. The truth is always difficult to swallow.
Like what finance_geek said, most students here choose a course
not truly out of interest, which is typical of spore society.
Angmohs eng grads do their FYP with interest and ambition,
while Asians do them becos they have to do it to get the degree.
Of cos there are really really good ones from asia, but im saying
generally.
Betw, have u heard of any local engineering companies
looking for engineers with 10 yrs experiences?
In US, this is common, becos engineering is a repected
and highly paid profession there.
One thing I wish to point out is - I know there are Malaysian students studying in UK, not because of their academic capability but their ability to pay the school fee. As you know, not every UK university is Cambridge, Oxford - having a strict entrance criteria. More wish to earn extra income from foreign students. Therefore, it is not a surprise that the academic standard is lower on those foreign students.
Do you think so? Are you just looking in this category of students and made your conclusion?
Second, 10 years of experience. Not easy, man. Most of the time, those engineers with 10 or 20 years of experience is very hard to go to another new job, unless direct competitor. Do we have so many direct competitor companies setting up here in Singapore? No, I don't think so.
This is my experience from my MNC too. Back in the States, yes, engineers of many many year experience are still in the company. Here in Singapore, not many, because they only setup a branch here less than 15 years...
Still long way to go, Singapore! -
Not really. I happened to be at a pretty reputated uk uni in EE,Originally posted by findingnewidea:One thing I wish to point out is - I know there are Malaysian students studying in UK, not because of their academic capability but their ability to pay the school fee. As you know, not every UK university is Cambridge, Oxford - having a strict entrance criteria. More wish to earn extra income from foreign students. Therefore, it is not a surprise that the academic standard is lower on those foreign students.
Do you think so? Are you just looking in this category of students and made your conclusion?
defly not one of those too commercialised or popular ones among sporeans,
but really reputed in whole of Europe in EE.
Well, quite a number of the malaysians then were actually
top students and some scholars from malaysia.
Of cos these scholars top the exams but not really so in pratical,
i believe is the lack of experiences.
Interestingly, many of the malaysian stayed on to do phds.
They are smart, hardworking and disciplined i have to say.
But still on the whole the angmohs interest level in practical stuffs
impressed me.
I dun think this is so. I believe it is spore society acceptance/recognition
This is my experience from my MNC too. Back in the States, yes, engineers of many many year experience are still in the company. Here in Singapore, not many, because they only setup a branch here less than 15 years...
Still long way to go, Singapore!
of engineering as a profession.
The pay and prestige is not there.
So ultimately, after abt 5 yrs of experiences, most will try to
to get into managements, with an MBA etc.
While others simply jump out of R&D and do sales or entirely
different field.
Almost no company here would employ somone who is still doing
engineering work at age 30+. They would rather get someone
younger and cheaper. You get what i mean.
So you better make sure u get into management by age 30-35.
A good fren of mine who is really quite a good SW eng
walked out of the profession and started doing bussiness
in entirely diffferent field. He complained of lack of recognition
for his work even though he helped the company solved many
critical issues and saved his bosses ass several times.
I have the same experiences myself and am already tired
of working for bosses/companies who under-recognise
my work. Don't think i wish to elaborate too much on these.
Anyways, im pretty sure i will have much brighter career prospects
and opportinities in US. (having worked there for a while before)
Well...you may want to approach your friends who are R&D engineers
and ask them if any of them wish to stay in R&D field.
Im pretty sure most of the responses will be what i had mentioned.
In simple words:
R&D engineering has no recognition in spore.
Its associated with nerdiness, low pay and no career prospect. -
haa.. congrats on that one man.Originally posted by Glen999:angmoh is practical, talkative, have many ideas.. and good at courting girls.
all our SG/MY ladies in uni had western boyfriends. I'm engineering. therefore, had only 3-4 SG/MY girls.
luckily, there was one exception. who was my girlfriend. Took so much effort to fight against angmoh during uni time.. this makes me very proud!!!
anways u know wat?
i find the angmohs in engineering just as nerdy as local engineers.
not the types sg gals have in their mind at all.
so its the same everywhere.. engineers are nerds.. ha -
very true. cannot compare with Tsinghua, the MIT of china.Originally posted by finance_geek:We think our academic institutions dish out top grads,but I beg to differ.Grads from IIM/IIT in India and Tsinghua Biz Sch(Beijing) get offers paying even more than what our local grads earn.We're simply not good enough.Sad but true.
but generally, local grads no up to stardard when it comes
to engineering, when compared with US/Europe.
I wont say compared to china though.
I really wish to pt out again:
With little recognition, pay, prospect, for R&D
just how is Sg engineering industry going to move up the value chain?
I do not have the answer. Neither do i think the government has.
The market has become what it is today. -
Hey, i rmbr my china friend told me their Engineering managers
were really really very highly paid, esp those w foriegn degrees.