Church Goers
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erm, why dun they want to keep summoning the same demons???Originally posted by F Bunta:It's all a matter of perspective. To us, Jesus of Nazareth was a charlatan. -
Nono. How do you know that the name of the Arch Demon is Gabriel?Originally posted by F Bunta:It's all a matter of perspective. To us, Jesus of Nazareth was a charlatan. -
Whats the purpose of summoning demons? To ask it to grant you powers?
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Which the verse means - it's your heart that God is after, it's not because you dress in branded wear or expensive jewellery that matters. All churches have regulations on what you can wear, some don't allow sandals so to respect the rules set by your church leaders.Originally posted by laoda99:1 Timothy 2
Instructions on Worship
1I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
8I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing.
[b] 9I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
To the non-christians, not that owning branded clothes or dear jewellery is wrong (though I never had branded stuff, and don't take to gold and diamonds so I may not understand. I know to some it's just something nice not necessarily that you want to flaunt or what). It's when you wilfully wear clothes with THE HEART to flaunt to others and not follow the regulations set by the church and your priority to dress well is to show off - that is wrong. We must always look to the bible in all its context - looking at verses before and after. -
You mean the Demon spoke to you?Originally posted by F Bunta:Because he said so?
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1 Peter 3
Wives and Husbands
1Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. 4Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight. 5For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to make themselves beautiful. They were submissive to their own husbands, 6like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
7Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
James 2
Favoritism Forbidden
1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don't show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, "Here's a good seat for you," but say to the poor man, "You stand there" or "Sit on the floor by my feet," 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?
5Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong?
Luke 12
Do Not Worry
22Then Jesus said to his disciples: "Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. 23Life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. 24Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn; yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! 25Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? 26Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?
[b]27"Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you, not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 28If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today, and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith! 29And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. 30For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. 31But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well. -
Agreed. It is better to cloth urself in god's righteousness.Originally posted by sassyfire:Which the verse means - it's your heart that God is after, it's not because you dress in branded wear or expensive jewellery that matters.
Romans 13
11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12The night is nearly over; the day is almost here. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy. 14Rather, clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature.[c]
Matthew 22
The Parable of the Wedding Banquet
1Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2"The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
4"Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.'
5"But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.
8"Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9Go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.' 10So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.
11"But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man was speechless.
13"Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen." -
I guess its not about which body part you hide or show, how good you look or even how fashionable you look in church.
Your dressing reflects the importance of the occasion and the company you intend to meet.
eg. how many people will wear rags for their most improtant interview? $2 slippers, ugly torn shorts and faded army t shirt to apply for the job of system engineer at a MNC?
How many people will wear an old, stained short sleeved shirt, ill fitting work pants, forget his tie and not comb his hair when meeting his company's vice president or major client?
Dun mention to me that you're a prodigy, or that you're an eccentric programmer... I'm talking in general.
Even when going out on a hot date, i'm lazy person that prefers not to spend too much time in front of the mirror, would also take pains to groom myself to attract the lady.
So, if you think that church is important, and that entering the house of God (allegedly) is an honour and an important event, like meeting your prospective in laws or company vice president, you would not be late, dress in a manner befitting (in your view) of the function and behave in an appropriate manne.
If you think that going to church is unimportant and that you're more important than God, that its no different from going to the provision store downstairs, then you would go late (after all, your time is more impt that God's), dress in a manner that you feel fits the occassion and even misbehave.
I noticed that many contributors to this thread are devout christians (or anti christs), is entering God's house important to you? its all reflected in your attire. -
Why should wearing 'branded stuff' not be sinful if it's the sort of thing that in a certain context may of itself lead someone to start feeling envious of the people who have allowed themselves to be seen whilst wearing such 'branded stuff' in the context in question?
Even if you don't wear it for the sake of flaunting it, you could still be sinning by wearing it in the presence of a person who you know is going to start feeling envious of you once he or she has seen you wearing it.
Don't we have the moral responsibility to be making concessions to the weakness of such an individual, particularly where it would not be a sin for us to eschew the 'branded stuff' in question?
If there is no overriding reason for wearing such 'stuff' and if it would therefore not involve us in a sin that we should not be wearing such 'stuff', then I think that in a context where we are likely to be made the object of someone's envy in the event he or she were to see us wearing such 'stuff', it would then be morally obligatory for us NOT to wear such 'stuff' (lest we should so be seen to be wearing it by the person in question).
This is, in essence, why it is utterly wrong for men (or women) who call themselves pastors of one sort or another (and who therefore publicly present themselves as Christ's ambassadors) to allow themselves to be seen whilst adorned with the baubles that are so dear to the children of this world.
Such people are saddled with the grave moral responsibility of ensuring that their actions do not cause scandal and so serve to bring the name of Christ into infamy. -
Girls (and boys) like to doll themselves up/wear branded stuff, not only when they go to church but other places as well. In my opinion, watever we do we have to consider the following:
1) When I do this, does it help me worship the lord better?
2) Will I be a stumbling block to others, even though it is my RIGHT?
What i believe: when one first become a christian, he has no more rights by his own, and instead god rules over him. Everything he do, he has to put god first and consider his actions. I guess fellow worshippers will be second, and then lastly the worshipper himself.
In short, when it is time to go church, dress appropriately. When it is time to go somewhere else, wear appropriately for that place also.
One of my muslim fren told me, for them, it is important for their women to dress appropriately too when they go mosque to pray. He jested that if u see a well-dressed beautiful woman with long hair flipping her hair, will u not lose ur attention? I think this is very true...we are all sinners and weak in nature....so do not be a stumbling block to others, but wear appropriately for the occasion.
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Matthew
Salt and Light
13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
2 Corinthians
Our Heavenly Dwelling
1Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. -
Sounds like, 'if a girl is raped. It's her fault for dressing indecently.'Originally posted by laoda99:Girls (and boys) like to doll themselves up/wear branded stuff, not only when they go to church but other places as well. In my opinion, watever we do we have to consider the following:
1) When I do this, does it help me worship the lord better?
2) Will I be a stumbling block to others, even though it is my RIGHT?
What i believe: when one first become a christian, he has no more rights by his own, and instead god rules over him. Everything he do, he has to put god first and consider his actions. I guess fellow worshippers will be second, and then lastly the worshipper himself.
In short, when it is time to go church, dress appropriately. When it is time to go somewhere else, wear appropriately for that place also.
One of my muslim fren told me, for them, it is important for their women to dress appropriately too when they go mosque to pray. He jested that if u see a well-dressed beautiful woman with long hair flipping her hair, will u not lose ur attention? I think this is very true...we are all sinners and weak in nature....so do not be a stumbling block to others, but wear appropriately for the occasion.
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Matthew
Salt and Light
13"You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
14"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.
2 Corinthians
Our Heavenly Dwelling
1Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, 3because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Well, like we've agreed. Christianity is a personal relationship time and again. But 'Christians' just can't help bringing matters back as a religion.
If a church were to look upon one another as brother and sister in the grace of God. There wouldn't be any sinning or stumbling about it.
p.s You stumbled me. your God is small 'g' and my God is all the while big 'G'. I think we truly serve different God.
Otherwise, give Him abit of respect. Tsk. -
Originally posted by laoda99:
So you understood the verses of 1 Cor 9-13 already yea? The one which i deem as half truths.
1 Corinthians
[b]9Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? 11So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.
Romans 14
13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. 17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men.
19Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall.
22So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
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If not discuss here? unless you're afraid of embarrassment.Originally posted by sassyfire:Dear Sir
if you like you can PM me. I rather not discuss further here as it's not very good for the forum members.
if you cannot argue properly, it's better to shut up.
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You're welcomed. I was merely trashing idiots.Originally posted by MrBach:Ps. I'd like to thank Mr Fugue again for his perceptive interjections. -
Yes!!! Thank u MCSQUARE!Originally posted by M©+square:So you understood the verses of 1 Cor 9-13 already yea? The one which i deem as half truths. -
I think it is not good to generalize on all rape cases. You should know what i mean. Let's not deviate from the topic and go into rape.Originally posted by M©+square:Sounds like, 'if a girl is raped. It's her fault for dressing indecently.'
Well, like we've agreed. Christianity is a personal relationship time and again. But 'Christians' just can't help bringing matters back as a religion.
If a church were to look upon one another as brother and sister in the grace of God. There wouldn't be any sinning or stumbling about it.
p.s You stumbled me. your God is small 'g' and my God is all the while big 'G'. I think we truly serve different God.
Otherwise, give Him abit of respect. Tsk.
Men will always have pride/ego to show that they are right. I agree with ur last statement totally. -
I'm not sure if who's generalising, you? Me or the rest of professed christian in this thread.Originally posted by laoda99:I think it is not good to generalize on all rape cases. You should know what i mean. Let's not deviate from the topic and go into rape.
Men will always have pride/ego to show that they are right. I agree with ur last statement totally.
Quotation of verses means? If it is not generalising of standard then i would like to hear your views.
I reply because of the way the verses were interpreted and how it was used regarding dressing to church and place of worship.
p.s You haven't answer me if 1 Cor 9-13 is truth or not. Paul speaking to who? -
Eternal hope forum bo lang so bring it here?
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1. I have my views as what i said earier: do wat god expects of u and do not be a stumbling block to others.Originally posted by M©+square:Quotation of verses means? If it is not generalising of standard then i would like to hear your views.
I reply because of the way the verses were interpreted and how it was used regarding dressing to church and place of worship.
p.s You haven't answer me if 1 Cor 9-13 is truth or not. Paul speaking to who?
2. Paul was definitely talking to the Corinthians.
3. With regards to this dressing to church, what is ur view then? -
To those GUILTY: pls take this chance to reflect on yr behaviour.
Repent and you shall be forgiven.
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I'm sorry, but I find the idea of any sort of Satanist defining what for me would be a sin, to conflict with that Satanist will have himself already said about how it is that we can each serve in relation to ourselves as our own gods.
If I'm my own god, then why can't I define pretentiousness as something that would be virtuous for me?
What if I felt that I needed to be pretentious in order to seduce a girl (that is, by way of pretending to her that I am something I know I am not, or by way of contriving to be every bit as superficial as she is, so as to give her the impression that there is a great deal of common ground between us)?
And if the fulfilment of my own instincts should rank higher than any other goal that I might set myself, then why may I not indeed behave pretentiously so as to increase the likelihood that one of my instincts should be able to be fulfilled in the matter of what I should be hoping to do in making an attempt at seducing the aforementioned girl?
The fact of the matter is that if I am my own god, then I don't need to abide by any creed that anybody might commend to me for my acceptance, whether he is the Devil himself or a follower of the Devil.
Therein lies the inherent contradiction of Satanism (at least in the form in which it has been expressed above).
It's an interesting fact that La Veyans and other students of the Satanic Bible have never in all their not considerable literature been able to produce a protrait of hell, that even remotely approaches, in terms of its power to shock and terrify, the imaginative portrays of hell in the literature of Christians like Dante and Milton.
La Vey is little more than a pathetic hack.
To read the 'Inferno' and to understand it is at once to be terrified and shocked by the imaginative power, the internal consistency, and grand sweep of Dante's vision of hell.
Dante, however, was a devout Christian; in fact, a Catholic, and for him, the ultimate terror was to find oneself in the hands of an angry God, and to be cast by him screaming into hellfire.
Remember, O La Veyans, the sign that Dante said was posted over the gate of hell: 'I am the road to the city of woe..eternal justice framed me....abandon hope, all ye who enter here'.
'Abandon hope' - the firm unrelenting command stemming from the equally unrelenting justice of God that drives the damned to their terrible, eternal destiny. -
No Mr FugueOriginally posted by Mr Fugue:If not discuss here? unless you're afraid of embarrassment.
if you cannot argue properly, it's better to shut up.
because some members are apparently quite distress. So there's no need to do this further. There's nothing to defend. So what for?
You think I'm fighting a case. Like I said, everything's common sense. People can read and see. By using certain languages to verbally abuse someone doesn't mean you're better or more sincere.
Likewise even if you can memorise the whole bible doesn''t make you more right with God.
By arguing, it's not making things better. If you can't make constructive comments, it's you who should keep your peace -
I'm sorry but do you have any even remotely sensible concept of 'sin'?Originally posted by F Bunta:You are guilty of the biggest sin: Stupidity. Repent and you shall see the meaning of life.
If I say of action 'a' that it would be a sin for me to perform it, and then I say that I have sinned in performing this action, do you know what would be presupposed to this entire chain of reasoning?
The idea, namely, that it would have been possible for me not to have performed action 'a', and further that I ought on some level to have been aware of an obligation binding on me to not perform action 'a', at the very time when I was performing it.
Now if Fugue is (using the operative concept of 'sin' as I have characterised it above) a sinner in being stupid, then would you grant that it would have been possible for him not to have chosen to be stupid?
If you grant the above assumption then you are in effect ascribing to Fugue a measure of cleverness requisite to the task of making the aforementioned choice; but if you do not grant this assumption, then even if we would agree with you (which we do not) that Fugue is stupid, we would still have to deny that he is a sinner for being stupid in this sense.
That is why 'stupidity' is not a sin, and why it is truly stupid to pretend that it is.
You're confusing stupidity with a lack of prudence.
By the way, Prudence was of the 4 Cardinal Virtues, which Christian thinkers like Thomas Aquinas, have always recognised.
See what I meant, about La Vey being a pathetically stupid hack!
And here we have someone attempting to ape him and making a fool out of himself in the process!
Keep up the good work, Fugue! -
looks like all those times of going to the church is wasted for you.Originally posted by F Bunta:You are guilty of the biggest sin: Stupidity. Repent and you shall see the meaning of life.
there are greater evils than stupidity. -
Dear Fugue,Originally posted by Mr Fugue:looks like all those times of going to the church is wasted for you.
there are greater evils than stupidity.
You mean he goes to church? Wow!
I didn't know that.
I hope you're not going to tell me next that he goes to the church of Satan.
Lol!