Anyone watch the TCS8 news @ 630pm jus now?
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yes it may be a stupid piece of cloth but it is what is printed on the cloth that symbolize what value it has.Originally posted by Mr Fugue:...or a stupid piece of cloth!!
Eg the national flag is also a piece of cloth,but people do get angry if they see it being burned or mishandled.I can also use another example,if u have identification document,eg NRIC,your education certificate It is just another stupid piece of plastic or paper only right?What if someone got hold of it destroyed it and then at you and say it is only just a stupid piece of plastic or paper? -
they do this in peace time, but runs off in a war???Originally posted by GenX:I m guessing you have never participated in ndp b4 as a contingent from the army.If u have,u will know that all those who participate would had already drill into your head that if u want to faint,u better faint full face down fast and quick.Dun do half fuck fainting.
They term it as it is not a disgrace as u have already tahan your best until u really have no conciousness to control the way u go.But it would be a disgrace if u faint sideway or kneel down or whatever else as they insist that it is still tahan-able,so u did not do your best to prevent it.
Yes it is unreasonable but it is the way the army work,they expect u to give 100% for the sake of the country.
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Too bad then if it happen in a real war,they can't control it.But u will surely be punished for it,maybe some will even shoot u on the spot so that u still give your life to the country (not saying this is what will happen but what may happen),if not and the country survives the attack,and the person is caught,he will surely be court martial.Originally posted by sgboy2004:they do this in peace time, but runs off in a war???
The army will accept no reason that u do not give 100% to the country. -
Anyone knows how is the poor soldier who fainted? Is he alrite? Due to heat stroke or what?
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I dun.Originally posted by GenX:Eg the national flag is also a piece of cloth,but people do get angry if they see it being burned or mishandled.I can also use another example,if u have identification document,eg NRIC,your education certificate It is just another stupid piece of plastic or paper only right?What if someone got hold of it destroyed it and then
One diff, the flag merely dropped on the floor, if my IC drop on the floor, I WILL STILL USE IT mahz... at you and say it is only just a stupid piece of plastic or paper?
I never said anything abt destroying hor. -
well that is because what u said about the colors' flag almost implied the same thing.The flag symbolize the unit and thus if its fall, it implies that the unit is destroyed and has fallen.Originally posted by Mr Fugue:One diff, the flag merely dropped on the floor, if my IC drop on the floor, I WILL STILL USE IT mahz...
I never said anything abt destroying hor. -
do u have difficulties understanding what I said???Originally posted by GenX:well that is because what u said about the colors' flag almost implied the same thing.The flag symbolize the unit and thus if its fall, it implies that the unit is destroyed and has fallen.
WHAT I SAID:
flag drop.
WHAT I NEVER SAID: flag destroy.
What a "flag drops" symbolise is none of my F*CKING biz!!! -
SAF shld stop all trainings....all they need to teach NSmen is to destroy and drop enemy's flags.
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You forget that that units are made up of PEOPLE tooOriginally posted by GenX:well that is because what u said about the colors' flag almost implied the same thing.The flag symbolize the unit and thus if its fall, it implies that the unit is destroyed and has fallen.
U know what i dont like SAF? They always like to point fingers than to resolve the issue.
Would giving him confinements or charge him makes him a more patriotic or a stronger soldier?
Its always about making someone pay for causing you to lose face, rather than solving the issue at its roots.
Besides, symbols are nuthing more than symbols. You know why people contemplated shooting their officer first thing in any battle? Will treating a flag like a treasure than treating your soldiers with care make the army more patrotic and have great fighting spirits?
Duh.. -
Originally posted by Mr Fugue:
of course it is non of your biz,but it is just that the army does not see it the way u do.To u ,it is just that it drop,to the army,it actually means being destroy. So that is why they will care more for the flag than the person.
do u have difficulties understanding what I said???
[b]WHAT I SAID: flag drop.
WHAT I NEVER SAID: flag destroy.
What a "flag drops" symbolise is none of my F*CKING biz!!! [/b]
Both u and the army just have different point of view.Things will still be done this way in the army,no matter it is acceptable to u,others or not. -
Found this:
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lol ok,it is not as if i even like the army any little bit. I m just stating why the army do things this way whether u, me or anyone like it or not,or if it is the right thing to do or not.Most of the time in this world,can u say whatever is being done is the right thing ?People just have different mind set on stuff and now it is these people who have this different mind set that now determine how stuff is to be done.They will think it is right so it is rightOriginally posted by laurence82:You forget that that units are made up of PEOPLE too
U know what i dont like SAF? They always like to point fingers than to resolve the issue.
Would giving him confinements or charge him makes him a more patriotic or a stronger soldier?
Its always about making someone pay for causing you to lose face, rather than solving the issue at its roots.
Besides, symbols are nuthing more than symbols. You know why people contemplated shooting their officer first thing in any battle? Will treating a flag like a treasure than treating your soldiers with care make the army more patrotic and have great fighting spirits?
Duh..
It is a big wayang show as anyone will know but it is the way it is,so the people under the system will be pressured to wayang along too (some may like to help but dun help cos of this and leave it to the medics to settle it) -
thats why fugue is rightOriginally posted by GenX:lol ok,it is not as if i even like the army any little bit. I m just stating why the army do things this way whether u, me or anyone like it or not,or if it is the right thing to do or not.Most of the time in this world,can u say whatever is being done is the right thing ?People just have different mind set on stuff and now it is these people who have this different mind set that now determine how stuff is to be done.They will think it is right so it is right
It is a big wayang show as anyone will know but it is the way it is,so the people under the system will have to be pressured to wayang along too.
its just a piece of cloth, for wayang shows
its the person holding it i am more concerned abt -
Yup,but well yours or anyone else's thinking dun matter to the army.You think what is right, the army will think what is right.Since you do not control the system,your view of what is right will become the wrong,and the army will have their "right" way to take care of that person who fainted (the medics who comes afterwards)Originally posted by laurence82:thats why fugue is right
its just a piece of cloth, for wayang shows
its the person holding it i am more concerned abt -
No wonder people migratingOriginally posted by GenX:Yup,but well yours or anyone else's thinking dun matter to the army.You think what is right, the army will think what is right.Since you do not control the system,your view of what is right will become the wrong,and the army will have their "right" way to take care of that person who fainted (the medics who comes afterwards)
Sheesh, even the Ministers' children are already stationed overseas
SM Goh who called people who migrate overseas quitters, have to visit his daughter and son in law...in Uk -
haha.. i didnt know that the soldiers fainting was ok until i participated in the ndp
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yeah it is sad truth.Originally posted by laurence82:No wonder people migrating
Sheesh, even the Ministers' children are already stationed overseas
SM Goh who called people who migrate overseas quitters, have to visit his daughter and son in law...in Uk
Either people accept what is "right" here,people somehow overthrow the system or people migrate a country where they think it has their "right" values instilled -
Thats goodOriginally posted by GenX:yeah it is sad truth.
Either people accept what is "right" here,people somehow overthrow the system or people migrate a country where they think it has their "right" values instilled
Always find your own happiness -
I think i heard the M word!Originally posted by laurence82:No wonder people migrating
Sheesh, even the Ministers' children are already stationed overseas
SM Goh who called people who migrate overseas quitters, have to visit his daughter and son in law...in Uk
He used the wrong term. It should not be quitters it should be "shi zhe shen chun" - the one who adapts survives.
Anyway, heard from my bro that in times of war, a lot of the nsmen will really shoot their officers for torturing them in army and then surrender. They rather surrender than die under scholars who know only how to talk on paper and use army laws to pressure the men to work rather than real charisma and leadership. May be someone will want to second this comment. -
Its a common talk among soldiers, but i believe such things will happen under pressure, rather than upon hearing the news of war breakoutOriginally posted by Cindyfeh:I think i heard the M word!
He used the wrong term. It should not be quitters it should be "shi zhe shen chun" - the one who adapts survives.
Anyway, heard from my bro that in times of war, a lot of the nsmen will really shoot their officers for torturing them in army and then surrender. They rather surrender than die under scholars who know only how to talk on paper and use army laws to pressure the men to work rather than real charisma and leadership. May be someone will want to second this comment. -
hmm I would think war is really pressuring as in when you go, you don't know whether you can make it back, especially under the paper and talk only leadership of today's scholars. Isn't it easier to gang up and kill those scholars?Originally posted by laurence82:Its a common talk among soldiers, but i believe such things will happen under pressure, rather than upon hearing the news of war breakout -
From the way he's lying down, seems likely that he cushioned his fall with his hands. He could have been 'acting' a fall - like what GenX say, wanna drop, better fall flat on your face, no kneeling down or 'gu niang' fainting.Originally posted by meltz:anyone save that guy ??? it juz fell flat like that
I've seen ppl who really passed out during parade, and they really fall flat on the face with arms by the side. ouch
Call me an arse, but i think if a soldier faints during parade, he has only himself to blame. Before parade, there will be ample opportunity for him to sit out if he's not feeling well. The onus is on him to voice out.
If he had a genuine physical or medical problem, the numerous training sessions would have sussed it out.
Granted, maybe that soldier who fainted was really eager to participate, but he should have known if his body couldn't take it.
Besides, ndp is a walk in the park compared to other military parades. That evening weather so cool somemore.
A parade is a symbolic act, so the arguments abt whether a human life more impt or the colours more impt really doesn't hold. The colours are symbolic, the practice of not letting the colours fall is symbolic. Its all a big wayang show. -
If a war breaks out , must kill enemy first , doesn't benefit anyone if we fight among ourselves.Originally posted by Cindyfeh:hmm I would think war is really pressuring as in when you go, you don't know whether you can make it back, especially under the paper and talk only leadership of today's scholars. Isn't it easier to gang up and kill those scholars? -
I hope some high ranking officers (like parade rsm) visit him and inquire about his condition.
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actually, there's no incentive to fake a faint lorz...
Who wants to malu himself in front of so many people and children?
Indeed, the army has the most outdated and the most bureaucratic management system among all organisations...i always see myself in a communist environment when i'm in camp - no incentive to do the right things, strong incentive just to avoid mistakes and to avoid looking stupid, incentive to push the blame since being the good guy will only result in yourself being exploited and no one cares anyway, lots of wayang of what 'progress' we've made, emphasis on hierachy and seniority for the sake of it(like chairman mao?), gross misallocation(strong and fit pple become driver and medic; skinny and lightweight pple go become engineer; farking stupid people who only physically fit but cannot plan and cannot lead become officers), etc....
Giving the guy confinements and charge serves absolutely no purpose, but as they say, it's the army, u jolly well and blindly just farking submit yourselves to the rules and procedures.