Anyone watch the TCS8 news @ 630pm jus now?
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X2Originally posted by laurence82:Look, the flag represent the army isn it? But the bloody officers forget that army is made up of PEOPLE
The reason why we go to war is because we want to protect our family, our frens and whoever else is impt to us
So pride and honour overtakes a life?
Care for soldiers? Bah!
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Yo gordonator bro.. I have to disagree with you on this:Originally posted by Gordonator:Hmm don't know how to say this but this is only your personal way of thinking, your own point of view. all the things u said about this being a chore, afraid of being punished, branded as chao geng, hated by the recerve, all this might not nescessary reflect what those soldiers think.
anyway for the 2nd part, i believe the commanders or the reserve are mature enough to determine that if a soldier voices out he is not feeling well, he is actually thinking of the big picture, his body is his afterall, he should know full well whether he can carry on or not, if he believe he can't carry out his task, there is no wrong in him falling out. the commanders surely will not think of him as a chao keng or being hated by the reserve. afterall, who will want to faint in a parade this big. and i seriously don't think anyone will want to chao keng after been training for so long.
First off, I myself have participated in a fair amount of standing drills before and I have seen cases whereby a poor guy who really couldnt take it fall out and sigh extra for 2 months.. The issue is there is a sense of fear.. you may be lucky enough to be in a unit where you have mature and understanding commanders but not all of of them are like that..
Secondly, I have nearly fainted in parades before. I undergone numerous practice drills tougher than the actual event and in none of them do i feel discomfort.. On the actual day I also felt no discomfort.. and yet I nearly fainted.. The whole point is you cannot assume that a person who is cant take it will show early symptoms... the onset of dizzy spells can be instantaneous.. -
i see. guess, there's always 2 sides to a coin. thanks for sharing your story. makes me feels that the majority of the commanders here in my units are indeed very nice people afterall. my SSM and formation RSM are appoarchable i should say, and reasonable too.Originally posted by DriftingGuy:Yo gordonator bro.. I have to disagree with you on this:
First off, I myself have participated in a fair amount of standing drills before and I have seen cases whereby a poor guy who really couldnt take it fall out and sigh extra for 2 months.. The issue is there is a sense of fear.. you may be lucky enough to be in a unit where you have mature and understanding commanders but not all of of them are like that..
Secondly, I have nearly fainted in parades before. I undergone numerous practice drills tougher than the actual event and in none of them do i feel discomfort.. On the actual day I also felt no discomfort.. and yet I nearly fainted.. The whole point is you cannot assume that a person who is cant take it will show early symptoms... the onset of dizzy spells can be instantaneous..
i myself took part in the engineer day parade this year. it was pretty fun although the guys and i sweat ourselves out in the hot blazing sun for days in rehearsals. guess we have the parade RSMs and CSMs to thank. they are the ones who made the experience enjoyable. the parade RSM and CSM didn't tekan or shouted at us, the formation RSM was doing most of the shouting. but overall they drilled us with professionalism which i expect from the commanders. it was very memorable. -
well, i agree with u. in fact i was inside too. I am in one of the GOH contigent. Heard about the COLOUR party dropping too. Which is something quite severe... He should uphold the flag with HIS LIFE. besides, there is a reserve too.Originally posted by ah_suaiz:the ensign who fell belongs to an infantry battalion....judging frm the line up....he is a few files away from the commandos...so is an infantry unit. how i know?? hehe..i was an ensign officer for my battalion a few years back..
anyway there are many comments on saving the soldier rather than the flag, which is called the colours. colours represent a unit, therefore if it fell, it means the unit fell.......so the colours is very impt to the saf. do you all know that the colours are casted and when they need to be uncasted for parade like ndp and saf day parade, there is actually a parade to uncast the colours. and to uncast, it is simply taking off the protection cover. the most important thing is, any saf personnel in the vicnity of the uncasting parade, regardless of rank must salute all the way until the parade is over.
i believe a lot of people will say it is rediculous to save the colours instead of a soldier. but when you are in a military, i believe this type of custom is important to uphold the discipline of the system. a young 2LT is given the honour to carry his unit colours and in the rule of the military, he is to use his life to protect the colours.
personally, i feel that this type of custom is impt...else the whole saf will be disorganised in a sense.....anyway, it is the responsibility of the ensign to sound off that he is not feeling well and not take part in the parade...there is a reserve......
Din declare he was not feeling well.
A 40 min parade isn't that strenous too. Try doing SAF day parade. We stand for 90mins. With "Tun Do" observant, (which is a 1min remembrance for the dead), the 15min Prize presentation. And finally the TROOPING. which the colours have to march past the 3 GOH contingents.
Having been a soldier that have done 2 years for SAF day and NDP, a would say that SAF really preserve the importance of the COLOUR.
Colour Down, Unit down. Colour is like a sacred symbol.
In fact, all people are suppose to salute when the COLOURS march pass u.
Every week, we do the casting and uncasting of colours. lan lan no choice have to embrace the repect and dignity of the colours. Haai, its a pity this year's COLOUR party cannot make it. They seem to slack and can' t be bothered.
The Ensign is usually the most promising junior rank officer and ,
The Escort is usually the best SGT.
In fact, i even seen the whole colour party kenna knock it down by Colour RSM.
Yes Commanders on pumping position for mistakes.
Perhaps sometimes, a unit need to have something , like a Symbol or Pride to fight of in War.... Colours Serve the best purpose.
Most of the ordinary folks out there would not even have seen the COLOURS before. Let alone know the importance of it. -
Besides, i dun think the officer that collapsed would be given extras or what.
Just that he have comfirm himself a chance that he WUN be in for the ACTUAL NDP parade liao loh...
Thats what most RSMs do. if they have no confidence in u. then u are out. He would most propably be the "infamous" officer in his unit.
As, the whole unit (eg: 3rd DIV) watch in horror as their COLOUR officer collapse. Doesnt give a good impression.
Luckily the flag was saved. Thank the Escort.
He din drill all the way to NDP preview just to faint. So no xtras or punishments would be given. After all, he is an officer. -
Have you done ndp before? if not shuddup.Originally posted by Mr Fugue:you think commanders will not pressure you not to fall out meh??
I'm afraid he opt to fall out but didn't granted by his commander.
Opps, before I forget.... YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE!!!
RSMs won't force anyone who is sick to go on parade. What for? Reserves are there, if he falls during parade even more lao kui.
I sat out during one of the full rehearsals during ndp03, and none of the commanders faulted or reprimanded me. I felt uneasy and voiced out at the last minute, just before rehearsals were about to start, to the RSM and he told me to sit out. True enough, i came down with severe gastritis for the next few days. Had i gone on the field, i no doubt would have been stretchered out.
RSMs will ask many times before parade if anyone wants to fall out. No shame falling out before parade. Its way more embarassing to fall DURING parade. -
Its way better to fall out and risk being labelled chao keng or whatever than to faint during parade and atttract so much unwanted attention.Originally posted by hisoka:Hmm don't know how to say this, but have you done ns? you should know that falling out is not as easy as you make it sound, especially for this type of things.
Now the fainting soldier is infamous liao, appeared on tv some more. If he just sat out the parade, none of us would be here discussing.
In that soldier's defense, maybe he was juz being too enthusiastic or garang and nerves got to him. -
whether the flag is more impt onot i dun care lah
but with ppl dropping dead while jogging and watever, i think we seriously need a good review of the health status and limits of the men.......
>touch wood<
if suay suay this guy drops dead right there, then wat will be the consequences? -
I see your point, but i think those that suddenly drop dead really is shi chen dao le. Nothing can be done to prevent it.Originally posted by FireIce:whether the flag is more impt onot i dun care lah
but with ppl dropping dead while jogging and watever, i think we seriously need a good review of the health status and limits of the men.......
>touch wood<
if suay suay this guy drops dead right there, then wat will be the consequences?
Even with today's medical advances, there's just too much about our body that is not understood yet. Even extensive medical checkups are not fool-proof. But still, the quality of the medical checkup before enlistment is super fcuked up, really needs to be improved. -
I did.Originally posted by Zooish:Have you done ndp before? if not shuddup.
Now you shut up! -
i think no one would wnt to train for months and fall out on the actual thingy. that is why i think the ensign chose to participate. many ppl tends to over estimate their ability, especially officers. we are some how brain washed to a certain extent that our body will be able to tahan no matter wht.Originally posted by Mr Fugue:I scare to fall out becos others will think I chao keng!! >.<~~~~~
What shld I do?????
*picks petal* to fall out, not to fall out, to fall out...
this is why the ensign thinks that he can participate and his body turns for the worse and he collapsed. garang??? i dun think so. as an officer, you have the responsibility to ensure that you yourself is taken care of before you do otherwise. this officer definitely fails to do that and as far as i am concern, if i am his superior, he will definitely not be categorised as garang, but immature and irresponsible.
i see it as shameful for an officer to collapse like that in a parade. take for eg, no one will find it shameful for a recruit to collapse in his bmt pop parade, but imagine an officer cadet falling out in his commission parade after announcing that they had been through 10 months of argous training.
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may i know how old is your bro......nowadays where can torture? maybe in training schs and ranger do that. in active battalion, if i "torture" my platoon, i think the next moment i will be remove frm command oredi.......nowadays all the ho kian pengs all very street smart, where got let officer torture one.....they will complain to oc or co even...............Originally posted by Cindyfeh:I think i heard the M word!
He used the wrong term. It should not be quitters it should be "shi zhe shen chun" - the one who adapts survives.
Anyway, heard from my bro that in times of war, a lot of the nsmen will really shoot their officers for torturing them in army and then surrender. They rather surrender than die under scholars who know only how to talk on paper and use army laws to pressure the men to work rather than real charisma and leadership. May be someone will want to second this comment.
i dun noe how other units works......but as a pc, you need to build rapport with your man..so they are willing to work for you......in my battalion, if a pc is found to be inefficient in leading, he will be remove frm command and given an adminstration job. -
congrats..the army shall now offer you a job as official spokesman for information and communication .Originally posted by Gordonator:i see. guess, there's always 2 sides to a coin. thanks for sharing your story. makes me feels that the majority of the commanders here in my units are indeed very nice people afterall. my SSM and formation RSM are appoarchable i should say, and reasonable too.
i myself took part in the engineer day parade this year. it was pretty fun although the guys and i sweat ourselves out in the hot blazing sun for days in rehearsals. guess we have the parade RSMs and CSMs to thank. they are the ones who made the experience enjoyable. the parade RSM and CSM didn't tekan or shouted at us, the formation RSM was doing most of the shouting. but overall they drilled us with professionalism which i expect from the commanders. it was very memorable. -
Officers, let alone Commandos, are still made of flesh and blood.Originally posted by ah_suaiz:...imagine an officer cadet falling out in his commission parade after announcing that they had been through 10 months of argous training.
They're not superman.
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Should have proper rest before starting , like 2 days rest , SAF should also provide the people in NDP with energy meals.
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mr.fugue is superman whatOriginally posted by Mr Fugue:Officers, let alone Commandos, are still made of flesh and blood.
They're not superman. 
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For 2002 m 2003, i did ndp for cover medic,The eyes of the medics on the field there are 4 of us covering the whole stadium.Each of us are suppose to jaga a few contigent but normally those who jaga the Guard of honour and the Colour Party will help the other side look for those UG kids who always faint.We always ignore the front line.During my dutie, the Police GOH fell for like 10 mins and no one realise it.hehe Sad sia.