A typical SIngaporean job conflict. Who is the bad hat?
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Ah yeah you lucky .. perhaps you come across as some one that is not easy to bully.Originally posted by dragg:
that's why you didn't get to experience the sort of stupid things some ppl put up with...
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please dont call people old nut. you will grow old one day. you might lose your job one day too.
I suspect Choco B belongs to those managerial or leader position as you can see from her/his posting. It is english powderful and it is a bit pro that Staff B side cuz basically senior roles is playing those Staff B games hahahaa....... so understand which stand he/she is and you shall know.
Maybe Choco B can prove me wrong as you are not managerial or leader role in company? You small fry like me also?
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Originally posted by dragg:
LOL Should the boss baby the employee now? Hon, nobody owes anyone a living.
if the boss is ready to handle the situation then why accept his resignation? what makes you think he is bringing his old hang=ups to the new job?
I'm referring to you, actually. I know you've been discriminated against because of your age. I wouldn't assume immediately that there's ageism at work in this story.Originally posted by dragg:staff B has herself to blame for treating staff A that way. she started the whole thing. staff A has already tendered why do you think he cares about what the rest of the staff thinks?
No, Staff A doesn't care. So my point is, why bother?
bte you call that working culture. i have worked for more than 15 years and this is the first time i heard senior staff conducting training that way.
Yes, it is bad, that I agree. Life is tough and unfair and if ever you find a perfect working environment, please let me knowplease dont call people old nut. you will grow old one day. you might lose your job one day too.
The sentence containing "old nut" was not a personal opinion, but written to reflect an attitude that some may take upon Staff B's outburst. It is PRECISELY because I know how uncertain the job situation is, that I write my replies, and that I feel Staff B has thrown away the job alittle too quickly.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. We all have different viewpoints, I don't expect you to agree with mine, just as I don't share yours
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all managers like to heard nice things, like their staff to kiss arse
Some ppl are just overly ambitious and would do everything in their power to get the little advantage over others. Its actually very common and people become more predatory every since the employer have become very trigger happy when it comes to retrenchment.
But singaporeans are never a united group and would play against one another to gain favours than to work together along with the boss or against the boss when needed. Most are just happy to sacrifice someone's career over one's own. But at the end of it, if these people ever reflect, they gain very little and ultimately everyone's a loser and the employers grow stronger with more power to lord over the employees -
Soh, please don't give me the powderful engrish nonsense Your written skills are about the same as mine , so I'm a small fry too
And if you interpret that I side Staff B ?
C'mon don't let your soft heart make you biased I already disclaim right at the start that Staff B is nasty and selfish. So none of these personal jibes from you k
As for that "old nut" comment (hey am I gonna be as infamous as Mrs GCT!!
), read above explanation. I shouldda put the sentence in inverted commas.
Whatever the level a person's at, I only believe in one thing. If you're hungry enough, you can put up with more than you think you're capable of. Bo bian, gotta adapt to survive.Originally posted by sohguanh:
[b]please dont call people old nut. you will grow old one day. you might lose your job one day too.
I suspect Choco B belongs to those managerial or leader position as you can see from her/his posting. It is english powderful and it is a bit pro that Staff B side cuz basically senior roles is playing those Staff B games hahahaa....... so understand which stand he/she is and you shall know.
Maybe Choco B can prove me wrong as you are not managerial or leader role in company? You small fry like me also? [/b] -
But at the end of it, if these people ever reflect, they gain very little and ultimately everyone's a loser and the employers grow stronger with more power to lord over the employees
How is it employers grow stronger? I cannot comprehend your above statement. Kind to give an example? -
LOL Should the boss baby the employee now? Hon, nobody owes anyone a living.
Bosses are not there to baby anyone but bosses are there to resolve conflict, not take sides, monitor and manage people. Obviously with the kind of thing happening as described, I would say the boss is not fulfilling the role.
I'm referring to you, actually. I know you've been discriminated against because of your age. I wouldn't assume immediately that there's ageism at work in this story.
No, Staff A doesn't care. So my point is, why bother? Laughing
Yes, it is bad, that I agree. Life is tough and unfair and if ever you find a perfect working environment, please let me know Laughing
The sentence containing "old nut" was not a personal opinion, but written to reflect an attitude that some may take upon Staff B's outburst. It is PRECISELY because I know how uncertain the job situation is, that I write my replies, and that I feel Staff B has thrown away the job alittle too quickly.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. We all have different viewpoints, I don't expect you to agree with mine, just as I don't share yours
Agism does exist but not in all places. It depends on industry and whatever standards and company as well. My office hardly have anyone that's old and I've well qualified US people who attempt to apply for jobs in SG and SG employers actually tell them they are too old - ie 40s is considered old.
Life's tough and ppl have different view points. I guess you can also listen to his as well as he can listen to yours.
I had an argument with my bf the other day. Between getting the results as be all and end all or is the process that gets the results equally important. His view was that its just important to get the results ie He would vote PAP as long as they can make the GDP grow. Mine was under the condition is that PAP does it without increasing the taxes and money they squeeze off the people and use better and more creative means to get that growth.
View points is just view points. -
actually i was a supervisor at my last job too. my position was somewhat the same as staff B's. the only difference is i train people patiently. that is why i find her behaviour appalling.Originally posted by mistyblue:Ah yeah you lucky .. perhaps you come across as some one that is not easy to bully.
that's why you didn't get to experience the sort of stupid things some ppl put up with... -
Yes, as mentioned in first post, definitely agree that it's a case of bad management.
Ah, just wished Staff A hung on alittle longer, that's all. Seems such a shame to let his supervisor win so easily. Perhaps he was facing insurmountable odds.Originally posted by mistyblue:Bosses are not there to baby anyone but bosses are there to resolve conflict, not take sides, monitor and manage people. Obviously with the kind of thing happening as described, I would say the boss is not fulfilling the role.
Agism does exist but not in all places. It depends on industry and whatever standards and company as well. My office hardly have anyone that's old and I've well qualified US people who attempt to apply for jobs in SG and SG employers actually tell them they are too old - ie 40s is considered old.
Life's tough and ppl have different view points. I guess you can also listen to his as well as he can listen to yours.
I had an argument with my bf the other day. Between getting the results as be all and end all or is the process that gets the results equally important. His view was that its just important to get the results ie He would vote PAP as long as they can make the GDP grow. Mine was under the condition is that PAP does it without increasing the taxes and money they squeeze off the people and use better and more creative means to get that growth.
View points is just view points. -
Originally posted by sohguanh:
recently my manager demanded 8 more hours of OT at the last minute. Its manadatory and it was to clean up after some screw up that I am not responsible for.
[b]But at the end of it, if these people ever reflect, they gain very little and ultimately everyone's a loser and the employers grow stronger with more power to lord over the employees
How is it employers grow stronger? I cannot comprehend your above statement. Kind to give an example? [/b]
Thereafter, I was not given extra pay nor any day off. I was expected to go back to work the next day as usual.
This is employer power. -
recently my manager demanded 8 more hours of OT at the last.......
So you not managerial role? So your manager got also do the work together with you OR only open mouth ask you do work? It is not employer power in this example it is MANAGER POWER!!!! -
we'll never really know what happened and their mental statesOriginally posted by choco B:Yes, as mentioned in first post, definitely agree that it's a case of bad management.
Ah, just wished Staff A hung on alittle longer, that's all. Seems such a shame to let his supervisor win so easily. Perhaps he was facing insurmountable odds.
Perhaps really the staff A felt there was a bad job fit.
Perhaps Staff B could have handled the situation better.
And the manager should query about this staff leaving so quickly.
There's lots of things that can be done but I know in sg, managment is not up to par on many levels and managers are still used to the authcratic style of making people work - ie Command and Control. But people, work, and everything had changed but the managers do not.. I don't know how are local organizations going to compare with other places cause lots of things that happen, happen cause of managers. -
Originally posted by sohguanh:
Not being the manager does not mean I don't have power. there's nothing great about being a manager. Are your trying to be degoratory about my role?
[b]recently my manager demanded 8 more hours of OT at the last.......
So you not managerial role? So your manager got also do the work together with you OR only open mouth ask you do work? It is not employer power in this example it is MANAGER POWER!!!! [/b]
He is my pay master. He decides my pay level, increases, my training and approves my spending. He controls things like this.
My power is to ensure his life and presentation to his manager looks good.If I want to screw his life, I can easily refuse to work on somethings and let them just fall apart.
If a manager fails to see the relationship of such a situation, he failed most terribily. For that OT, I did it out of generosity. Of course I was pissed but he better recognise the effort. -
Not being the manager does not mean I don't have power. there's nothing great about being a manager. Are your trying to be degoratory about my role?
So you are a manager within the manager hierarchy albeit smaller rank manager? I am not look small your role but I think no matter how you contribute even for that incident as long as your bigger manager sense you a threat to his/her position you think he/her will let you rise up meh?
Your bigger manager got bigger manager to report to rite? So afterall everyone is just an employee out there to take pay packet go home every month wat. Why you get so worked up? If you boss of company I can understand but u employee leh....
Ooh ya u can pray tat incident your contribution will be noted down in your next appraisal and hope get increment or promotion hehehehe.... post in here the good news if it indeed materialise ok? -
i fully agree with you.Originally posted by mistyblue:we'll never really know what happened and their mental states
Perhaps really the staff A felt there was a bad job fit.
Perhaps Staff B could have handled the situation better.
And the manager should query about this staff leaving so quickly.
There's lots of things that can be done but I know in sg, managment is not up to par on many levels and managers are still used to the authcratic style of making people work - ie Command and Control. But people, work, and everything had changed but the managers do not.. I don't know how are local organizations going to compare with other places cause lots of things that happen, happen cause of managers.
singapore managers are mostly good-for-nothings who wait only for pay day. management is non-existent. nobody bothers when someone resigns. -
singapore managers are mostly good-for-nothings who wait only for pay day.
Above a bit true especially in current economy a lot of managers got retrenched go apply be taxi drivers ahahahhahaha.... i tink this is retribution to them for all they had done in their previous company...... walk road got wind so wat now you relegated to being a chauffeur leh.... money also take back lesser leh....
So no worry .... karma is real ahahahhaa.... -
Originally posted by sohguanh:
it is so mean to think that way but i couldnt help agreeing.
[b]singapore managers are mostly good-for-nothings who wait only for pay day.
Above a bit true especially in current economy a lot of managers got retrenched go apply be taxi drivers ahahahhahaha.... i tink this is retribution to them for all they had done in their previous company...... walk road got wind so wat now you relegated to being a chauffeur leh.... money also take back lesser leh....
So no worry .... karma is real ahahahhaa.... [/b]
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Quite an interesting discussion going above. I would like to add this job surviving strategy:
1. First as a new staff, act dumb, curry favor everyone, endure all the shit from your colleagues and learn as much as possible from them.
2. Then, once you master your job scope, play politics with your immediate colleagues. Back stabbed them, sabo them. Why? Cos there is only limited number of promotions a year.
3. At the same time, curry favor with other departments, especially if you are eyeing for transfer. If you are not eyeing for transfer, you can collaborate with other department colleagues to sabo your own department colleagues. You can do likewise to repay their help. A win-win situation. It is easier for your boss and your boss' boss to believe a "neautral" party who is from another department.
4. Suck up to the cleaning aunties and uncles. They are easily bribed and are the best people to help you spread gossips.
5. I know some people like to snoope at my dustbin and desk, so I purposely leave mis-leading documents for them to see. Shred the important docs and always lock all your documents whenever you are away from the desk.
6. Repeat until you are one step away from being the CEO.
Any more suggestions on winning office politics?
Btw, I think you can never distant yourself from office politics, it is a game you have to play whether you like it or not? -
is this really you?Originally posted by Cindyfeh:Quite an interesting discussion going above. I would like to add this job surviving strategy:
1. First as a new staff, act dumb, curry favor everyone, endure all the shit from your colleagues and learn as much as possible from them.
2. Then, once you master your job scope, play politics with your immediate colleagues. Back stabbed them, sabo them. Why? Cos there is only limited number of promotions a year.
3. At the same time, curry favor with other departments, especially if you are eyeing for transfer. If you are not eyeing for transfer, you can collaborate with other department colleagues to sabo your own department colleagues. You can do likewise to repay their help. A win-win situation. It is easier for your boss and your boss' boss to believe a "neautral" party who is from another department.
4. Suck up to the cleaning aunties and uncles. They are easily bribed and are the best people to help you spread gossips.
5. I know some people like to snoope at my dustbin and desk, so I purposely leave mis-leading documents for them to see. Shred the important docs and always lock all your documents whenever you are away from the desk.
6. Repeat until you are one step away from being the CEO.
Any more suggestions on winning office politics?
Btw, I think you can never distant yourself from office politics, it is a game you have to play whether you like it or not?
frankly i think it runs in my blood. i can never do that. thats why i failed so miserably at my career. -
This is the very reason why staff B is not interested in training others.Originally posted by Cindyfeh:Quite an interesting discussion going above. I would like to add this job surviving strategy:
1. First as a new staff, act dumb, curry favor everyone, endure all the shit from your colleagues and learn as much as possible from them.
2. Then, once you master your job scope, play politics with your immediate colleagues. Back stabbed them, sabo them. Why? Cos there is only limited number of promotions a year.
3. At the same time, curry favor with other departments, especially if you are eyeing for transfer. If you are not eyeing for transfer, you can collaborate with other department colleagues to sabo your own department colleagues. You can do likewise to repay their help. A win-win situation. It is easier for your boss and your boss' boss to believe a "neautral" party who is from another department.
4. Suck up to the cleaning aunties and uncles. They are easily bribed and are the best people to help you spread gossips.
5. I know some people like to snoope at my dustbin and desk, so I purposely leave mis-leading documents for them to see. Shred the important docs and always lock all your documents whenever you are away from the desk.
6. Repeat until you are one step away from being the CEO.
Any more suggestions on winning office politics?
Btw, I think you can never distant yourself from office politics, it is a game you have to play whether you like it or not? -
she is obviously not very good at it.Originally posted by Qitai:This is the very reason why staff B is not interested in training others.
the good ones play it covertly. -
That is life dragg, if you want a good life for yourself and your family, it is not a choice.Originally posted by dragg:is this really you?
frankly i think it runs in my blood. i can never do that. thats why i failed so miserably at my career.
How many times have you seen empty vessels in higher positions than yourself?
Do you ever see a nun, priest, or monk at the head of any profit-oriented organisations?
Keep your kind-heart at home when you leave home for work each day, because it is war every day at work. -
still I feel it is wrong to advance one's career while destroying others.
Based on what Cindy said, I already have one person in my team like this and she just makes life difficult for everyone and she destroy other people's careers to advance her own. -
I realised I didn't answer your question earlier on.Originally posted by dragg:is this really you?
frankly i think it runs in my blood. i can never do that. thats why i failed so miserably at my career.
Nay, I don't play the hard politics mentioned above. I don't intend to be the USA, Russia or China in my department. I prefer to be Switzerland and remain as neutral as possible, making use of the politics that others play to build up my resume and siam all the useless projects and odd-jobs. I have other things to do than fighting to be a CEO (I spend my time on my migration issues). I do keep track of the grapevine though to protect myself and deflect the politics aimed at me. -
So how do you deal with her? Even if you plan to be a neautral, she will still touch you one way or the other. To have a peace of mind, I suggest you ganging up on her with other neautrals or her weaker competitors and get rid of her once and for all. Either that or you hope that she will be transfered to other departments. If she managed to get promoted to become your boss, I can say life will even be tougher for you and it will be even more difficult to remove her.Originally posted by mistyblue:still I feel it is wrong to advance one's career while destroying others.
Based on what Cindy said, I already have one person in my team like this and she just makes life difficult for everyone and she destroy other people's careers to advance her own.
One positive note is that at least you know what her agenda is. There might be others in your department who have their own hidden agendas and it is these covert agendas that is hard to know and protect against.