A typical SIngaporean job conflict. Who is the bad hat?
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i tend to believe that the problem dont lie with the software. every salesperson needs to know about the product.Originally posted by FireIce:in the 1st place shd have hired someone with exp with Oracle
the lady is probably trying to protect her position, which i think is naive. -
the lady is probably trying to protect her position, which i think is naive.
Opick politik my fren. Ok since I work for 7 yrs I shall post some patterns i observe or experience before. All these are those high position manager leader tactics.
Tactic 1:
User dept submit enhancement request 1 Jul 05 to your dept manager. Dept manager on 1 Aug 05 one month later passed it to you for implementation and she expect it to be ready next day.
Tactic 2:
Dept manager on 5 pm passed something to you for implementation and she expect it to be ready next day. So lan lan need do OT and when manager bigger boss wanna go home see so many employee so hardworking add points to that manager.
Tactic 3:
Dept manager verbally told you to follow her plan for implementation. On actual day of testing, user complain that plan is wrong business logic wise. Manager turn and point finger at you why you implement wrongly. You then mouth stuck with c*ck cannot say anything cuz it is you low rank against a high rank and furthermore no black and white.
Tactic 4:
When a employee tender resignation and HR wanna conduct exit interview, manager make sure he/she goes FIRST and complain about that employee attitude and working problem. This is called strike first to let HR form a bad impression of that employee before that employee has a chance to explain.
Tactic 5:
Manager FIRST find out from you the implementation details then later in front of users fire off her mouth to say how and how is done giving you no chance to speak at all. She wanna add point to himself/herself and let user think wow this manager sure know the work his/her employees are doing.
Tactic 6:
Manager push all cock-up things to the employees who had left. Claiming tat employee leave shit behind for clear up. If wan solve problem company must give money to fill up that vacancy.
More tactics to come but i no time write. But from above 5 examples, we see how managerial ppl survive in the working world. It is always a tread safe path for them at the expense of their workers.
Man now I know why ppl always play politik to get promotion. Got power means can play games with more chips and can open mouth ask ppl do work. At the end of month continue take pay check which is thicker than their below workers
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Anymore or not?
Originally posted by sohguanh:
[b]the lady is probably trying to protect her position, which i think is naive.
Opick politik my fren. Ok since I work for 7 yrs I shall post some patterns i observe or experience before. All these are those high position manager leader tactics.
Tactic 1:
User dept submit enhancement request 1 Jul 05 to your dept manager. Dept manager on 1 Aug 05 one month later passed it to you for implementation and she expect it to be ready next day.
Tactic 2:
Dept manager on 5 pm passed something to you for implementation and she expect it to be ready next day. So lan lan need do OT and when manager bigger boss wanna go home see so many employee so hardworking add points to that manager.
Tactic 3:
Dept manager verbally told you to follow her plan for implementation. On actual day of testing, user complain that plan is wrong business logic wise. Manager turn and point finger at you why you implement wrongly. You then mouth stuck with c*ck cannot say anything cuz it is you low rank against a high rank and furthermore no black and white.
Tactic 4:
When a employee tender resignation and HR wanna conduct exit interview, manager make sure he/she goes FIRST and complain about that employee attitude and working problem. This is called strike first to let HR form a bad impression of that employee before that employee has a chance to explain.
Tactic 5:
Manager FIRST find out from you the implementation details then later in front of users fire off her mouth to say how and how is done giving you no chance to speak at all. She wanna add point to himself/herself and let user think wow this manager sure know the work his/her employees are doing.
Tactic 6:
Manager push all cock-up things to the employees who had left. Claiming tat employee leave shit behind for clear up. If wan solve problem company must give money to fill up that vacancy.
More tactics to come but i no time write. But from above 5 examples, we see how managerial ppl survive in the working world. It is always a tread safe path for them at the expense of their workers.
Man now I know why ppl always play politik to get promotion. Got power means can play games with more chips and can open mouth ask ppl do work. At the end of month continue take pay check which is thicker than their below workers [/b] -
i wonder if there are any managers in this forum?
maybe if they can give us an insight of the corrupted mind of a manager. -
maybe if they can give us an insight of the corrupted mind of a manager.
It is simple. Survival instinct at work. I doubt schools and Uni taught them such tactics. They just learn to evolve. They are just trying to eke out a living like all of us but then they use below their rank workers as their pawn in their games. We low rank worker no more ppl below us to use as pawn so LPPL lor.
Twisted peverted they them all
Voices whisper to me kill them all -
i still subscribe to the theOriginally posted by Qitai:You can still be kind and helpful. But do it without expecting the same from others. There is no need to be nasty to others. Just do whatever that is good. But learn to protect yourself, and be less helpful if necessary.
The world is not fair nor perfect. But let's not make it worse.
' ren bu hai wo , wo bu hai ren ' philosphy .... as far as I concerned, I have not done anything against my conscience ... I seriously thought if there is heaven , there should be a place for me ... haha -
.....u would be able to stay on if u are really good wat...
if really cannot.. "tian wu jue ren zi lu"......"huo dao lao xue dao lao" loh...
*aka go get other job 
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if really cannot.. "tian wu jue ren zi lu"......"huo dao lao xue dao lao" loh..
Ok your above reminds me of tactic seven
Tactic 7:
See who can stay longer in the politik game. The one who cannot endure throw letter lose lor. Then the one who never throw will be the winner in the games. Their tactics is fight who can stay in office longer. No wonder I see some of these managers are single cuz they no family life can play this tactic. Hahhaha..... -
well said!!! i second that! i've even being blame for something that is not within my job scope!Originally posted by seancannot:When I first started work i was naive ... and wanted to treat everyone with respect and help everyone ... After 10 ++ year of working...
My conclusion is F U C K !!!.... human are sinister creature you have to mean, nasty and selfish to survive in this society
i have been framed, back stabbed too many times liao even those I helped before has done this to me ... this is a dirty political place there is no fairness in this sickening world!
Have a thick skin and black heart to protect yourself
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As long as there is human interaction,there WILL be politics at play...Originally posted by dragg:i agree with your analysis but i do not want to end up like those people.
maybe i was wrong. now unemployed because i refused to play politics.
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it seems like there are a lot of injustice.
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Tactic 8:
Need to treat your below workers well cuz they are your hands as you wanna be the brains. All ideas are nothing without implementation. So you will treat expensive dinner/lunches once in a while to your below workers. Then work tat time they will feel a bit pai seh eat your food already no do work for you. -
do you have a book for all these?Originally posted by sohguanh:Tactic 8:
Need to treat your below workers well cuz they are your hands as you wanna be the brains. All ideas are nothing without implementation. So you will treat expensive dinner/lunches once in a while to your below workers. Then work tat time they will feel a bit pai seh eat your food already no do work for you.
like sunzibinfa. -
Alot of good points mentioned. Staff B is selfish and nasty, poor training management by the boss... all this I agree.
But I don't believe Staff A's outburst was justified. Professional behavior is required in a professional environment. Not happy also shouldn't shout like wanna fight in kopitiam; it reflects very poorly on him. He could have lodged a complaint with the boss.
If Staff A had problems learning, it was his responsibility to find help, and not expect people to make life easy for him just cause he's old, etc. Staff B teaching to fast? Ask her to slow down.
I also think Staff A gave up too easily. Just a week on a job and he quit with wounded pride? Maybe he should learn to communicate with his boss so that he can get feedback and help if necessary. -
do you have a book for all these?
like sunzibinfa.
I intend to publish a book on such tactics when I retire. In the meantime I am still compiling now..... anyone of you wanna add on? Help me update my book
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Professional behavior is required in a professional environment. Not happy also shouldn't shout like wanna fight in kopitiam; it reflects very poorly on him. He could have lodged a complaint with the boss.
Agree but I guess it can only work in a orderly and civilised society like Spore. You try such tactics in other developing countries, those disgruntled employees wait outside for you. Maybe even stalk your family members.
So managers and leaders be happy u live in spore. Live elsewhere I think you need book a slot in crematorium early to avoid disappointment -
professional behaviour?Originally posted by choco B:Alot of good points mentioned. Staff B is selfish and nasty, poor training management by the boss... all this I agree.
But I don't believe Staff A's outburst was justified. Professional behavior is required in a professional environment. Not happy also shouldn't shout like wanna fight in kopitiam; it reflects very poorly on him. He could have lodged a complaint with the boss.
If Staff A had problems learning, it was his responsibility to find help, and not expect people to make life easy for him just cause he's old, etc. Staff B teaching to fast? Ask her to slow down.
I also think Staff A gave up too easily. Just a week on a job and he quit with wounded pride? Maybe he should learn to communicate with his boss so that he can get feedback and help if necessary.
he has already tendered his resignation. we dont know if he has spoken to the boss. even if he did do you think the boss will be so impartial as to understand his difficulties and reprimand staff B? he is a 50 yr old new staff!!
i find his behaviour totally justifiable!! he was being discriminated and treated unfairly. he could have just walk out without saying anything. but why bear with the insult when he already has nothing to lose? -
he could have just walk out without saying anything. but why bear with the insult when he already has nothing to lose?
Unless the resigned employee need referee from previous company, most ppl will give the manager a piece of their mind once they tendered and on the last day. Maybe in a different way but idea is the same -
Originally posted by sohguanh:
only fours day, i am sure he wont include it in his resume.
[b]he could have just walk out without saying anything. but why bear with the insult when he already has nothing to lose?
Unless the resigned employee need referee from previous company, most ppl will give the manager a piece of their mind once they tendered and on the last day. Maybe in a different way but idea is the same [/b]
one couldnt help but ask why he was offered the job in the first place.
where is the thread starter? -
A lot of these kinds of Staff B around and a lot of staff A who are victimized ...
and a lot of Bak-Jiew Tah Stamp managers around also.
My policy is "never be a doormat cause everyone will step on you"... -
Tactic 9:
Before go see user, manager tell you we will explain and describe in this and this manner basically on what approach to explain to users. At meeting with users, manager totally changed the approach and talk about a brand new approach without inform you. So you down there cannot speak because no prepare for it. Manager fire off her mouth and users are impressed by the speech the manager made and henceforth add points to manager. -
It's not easy for a 50+ to be employed. To do justice to himself and to pave the way for others, he could have showed staff A that he could do it(Not easy for him though). But, if he managed to learn it, Staff B might claim that it is her credit to save her position and to gain points... y am i so skeptical.:p
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We don't know, but we can't assume. If the boss decided to employ him, he has to give the employer the benefit of doubt, that the employer is ready to handle the unique problems of that new staff. You don't bring your old hang-ups to a new job.
What's the outcome of this scolding? Sure, Staff A left with some parting cheap shots, maybe feeling shiok for yelling at Staff B , but is unemployed again. How long can you feel shiok for?
Staff B got yelled yet, but because of the crude behavior of Staff A, I'm sure some people will suspect the problem is that Staff A cannot adjust to the working culture, and everyone forgets the incident after some time. If I take your assumption that the boss is biased, then Staff B will be even more untouched by this incident.
So, who loses more?
I guess it all boils down to limits and desperation. What is your tolerance limit, and how desperate are you to hold on to the job? Obviously Staff A doesn't need the job too badly, to which I must envy him for.
Ultimately, I think effort should be applied where it yields maximum benefit to yourself. No use leaving liao then KPKB, nobody gives a damn about some old nut blowing his top. Even if he wanted to give "a piece of your mind"... do it effectively lah.Originally posted by dragg:professional behaviour?
he has already tendered his resignation. we dont know if he has spoken to the boss. even if he did do you think the boss will be so impartial as to understand his difficulties and reprimand staff B? he is a 50 yr old new staff!!
i find his behaviour totally justifiable!! he was being discriminated and treated unfairly. he could have just walk out without saying anything. but why bear with the insult when he already has nothing to lose? -
My take on this is if wanna resign at least find alternative employment then throw letter lor. Throw letter without finding another is lugi leh. Must find and sign with other company already then can KPKB with current company. I am surprised a 50 yrs old guy dunno about such politik? Everywhere in every company all got politik. As long as got ppl interaction there is politik.
From wat i see, Staff A did it naively (as in no find alternative job still throw letter) whereas I admire Staff B survival skills in the company. I doubt the empty post vacated by Staff A can be filled for long cuz I think Staff B possessses incredible politik sense to survive. Unless company close shop or retrench or Staff B find a better paying job, I think Staff B every month take money home from that company -
Originally posted by choco B:We don't know, but we can't assume. If the boss decided to employ him, he has to give the employer the benefit of doubt, that the employer is ready to handle the unique problems of that new staff. You don't bring your old hang-ups to a new job.
if the boss is ready to handle the situation then why accept his resignation? what makes you think he is bringing his old hang=ups to the new job?
What's the outcome of this scolding? Sure, Staff A left with some parting cheap shots, maybe feeling shiok for yelling at Staff B , but is unemployed again. How long can you feel shiok for?
Staff B got yelled yet, but because of the crude behavior of Staff A, I'm sure some people will suspect the problem is that Staff A cannot adjust to the working culture, and everyone forgets the incident after some time. If I take your assumption that the boss is biased, then Staff B will be even more untouched by this incident.
So, who loses more?
staff B has herself to blame for treating staff A that way. she started the whole thing. staff A has already tendered why do you think he cares about what the rest of the staff thinks?
bte you call that working culture. i have worked for more than 15 years and this is the first time i heard senior staff conducting training that way.
I guess it all boils down to limits and desperation. What is your tolerance limit, and how desperate are you to hold on to the job? Obviously Staff A doesn't need the job too badly, to which I must envy him for.
Ultimately, I think effort should be applied where it yields maximum benefit to yourself. No use leaving liao then KPKB, nobody gives a damn about some old nut blowing his top. Even if he wanted to give "a piece of your mind"... do it effectively lah.
please dont call people old nut. you will grow old one day. you might lose your job one day too.