CHC
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It's about time that the Government steps in to set up a central authority for the Christians and plays an active role in it.Originally posted by laurence82:And you want these people to decry that there is no religious freedom in Singapore? The Falungong might be banned, but they still exist, and give out flyers.
Unlike MUIS, there is no central authority for christians in sg.
My concern is with this kind of religous freedom, chances of forming new cult groups is extremely high. Look at how Jehovah Witness and Mormons were formed in USA.
In Singapore, it is so easy. You just need to register a society at the Registry. Print some namecards and call your self Pastor or Reverend. Rent a function in a hotel. There you go, a new church under you is created. You can start recruiting your own followers and brainwash them to donate to your church. Note: The organisation is registered under your name. Therefore, the church money is your money too. If they do not donate enough nor listen to you, quote some verses from the bible.
After you have gotten enough number of members, you can start interpreting the bible your own way and claim that all the other churches especially the Catholics are wrong. Insist that you are the only right one. Invent your own teaching.
There you go again, a new cult is born. -
Who to decide who is cult who is not?
Will it be fair, especially when already in the mainstream there are many denominations?
Seriously, these two questions are big issues.
I think the Singapore Government has already mulled over such issues, when the Council of Churches was set up, to be representative of the Christian faith, rather than an authority like MUIS. -
Phase 2:Originally posted by FrustMom:It's about time that the Government steps in to set up a central authority for the Christians and plays an active role in it.
My concern is with this kind of religous freedom, chances of forming new cult groups is extremely high. Look at how Jehovah Witness and Mormons were formed in USA.
In Singapore, it is so easy. You just need to register a society at the Registry. Print some namecards and call your self Pastor or Reverend. Rent a function in a hotel. There you go, a new church under you is created. You can start recruiting your own followers and brainwash them to donate to your church. Note: The organisation is registered under your name. Therefore, the church money is your money too. If they do not donate enough nor listen to you, quote some verses from the bible.
After you have gotten enough number of members, you can start interpreting the bible your own way and claim that all the other churches especially the Catholics are wrong. Insist that you are the only right one. Invent your own teaching.
There you go again, a new cult is born.
Buy only Hugo Boss clothes with your suckers' money...
With the remainder of the donations, don't waste it on the needy... Build a nice new office with underground carpark for yourself. Some ppl might get touchy with your senseless squandering. Call it the house of God to make them happy.
Don't buy Merc unless you want to become like that TT Durai guy. Stick to BMW, ppl like that.
Marry a singer and call her a pastor. If she fails the pator admission test, continue to call her a pastor until she gets exposed. Then call her a spiritual director.
Buy a plunging neckline dress to increase the irony of her being exposed.
Make sure your singer wife has certain attributes that qualify her for religion duty. Following the taoist "cow head and horse face" is fine too. At least she is reaching out to taoists.
Sell off your new office for a hefty profit and shift to the expo.
Beg for more donations in case you need a gold tap... -
Who to decide who is cult who is not?Originally posted by laurence82:Seriously, these two questions are big issues.
I think the Singapore Government has already mulled over such issues, when the Council of Churches was set up, to be representative of the Christian faith, rather than an authority like MUIS.
Ans : the christians themselves. a cult is a religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Will it be fair, especially when already in the mainstream there are many denominations?
What do you mean by fair or not fair? Sorry, I didn't quite get you.
I think the Singapore Government has already mulled over such issues, when the Council of Churches was set up, to be representative of the Christian faith, rather than an authority like MUIS.
What does COC actually do? They seem to condone anybody setting up new churches, like the way I mentioned earlier. So if I register a new church today, am I a member of COC? Is CHC a member of COC? -
lolxOriginally posted by SilverPal:Phase 2:
Buy only Hugo Boss clothes with your suckers' money...
With the remainder of the donations, don't waste it on the needy... Build a nice new office with underground carpark for yourself. Some ppl might get touchy with your senseless squandering. Call it the house of God to make them happy.
Don't buy Merc unless you want to become like that TT Durai guy. Stick to BMW, ppl like that.
Marry a singer and call her a pastor. If she fails the pator admission test, continue to call her a pastor until she gets exposed. Then call her a spiritual director.
Buy a plunging neckline dress to increase the irony of her being exposed.
Make sure your singer wife has certain attributes that qualify her for religion duty. Following the taoist "cow head and horse face" is fine too. At least she is reaching out to taoists.
Sell off your new office for a hefty profit and shift to the expo.
Beg for more donations in case you need a gold tap... -
Whose definition is this, by the way?Originally posted by FrustMom:Ans : the christians themselves. a cult is a religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
. Please correct me if I am wrong.What do you mean by fair or not fair? Sorry, I didn't quite get you.
Look, you wouldnt want to have rejected groups accusing the authority of being biased. For example, if the group is a Protestant denomination, and the authority made up manly of Catholics, or the rejected group, being a charismatic church, accusing the established Catholic and Protestant mainstream churches of prejudice, so on and so on.What does COC actually do? They seem to condone anybody setting up new churches, like the way I mentioned earlier. So if I register a new church today, am I a member of COC? Is CHC a member of COC?
Do they condone everyone setting up new churches? I believe they may have their private msigivings, but like i said, COC acts as a representative, not authority.
Funny thing is, i cant find more abt COC on webby.. -
wo bu zhi dao!!Originally posted by coffeeortea:and the issue of money is brought up again =D
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I am confused. You are comparing population of christianity with population of Catholics, Muslims or Buddists. Or you comparing population in CHC with population of Catholics, Muslims or Buddists? Quite weird if you compare population in CHC with population of Catholics, Muslims or Buddists. Doesn't make sense. Unless you are comparing population of CHC with some other churches not in singapore, well, it makes more sense.Originally posted by SilverPal:Compared to the Catholics, Muslims or Buddists? Very sad...
Please correct me if I did not get what you mean.
Thanks. -
You mentioned that CHC has a problem controlling their followers due to the hugh number of followers. My point was that the vactican does a better job of controlling roman catholics around the world and the various muslim factions also are able to control their followers although they have a greater number of followers.Originally posted by happyharvest:I am confused. You are comparing population of christianity with population of Catholics, Muslims or Buddists. Or you comparing population in CHC with population of Catholics, Muslims or Buddists? Quite weird if you compare population in CHC with population of Catholics, Muslims or Buddists. Doesn't make sense. Unless you are comparing population of CHC with some other churches not in singapore, well, it makes more sense.
Please correct me if I did not get what you mean.
Thanks.
If this number of followers can prove to be too large a number for hugo boss poster boy to handle, then how can he expand further? he'll only introduce further factional splitting and increase the number of ppl against CHC.
Of course, islam is divided into many different school of thinking and thus we think that muslim leaders are unable to control their ppl. There are also different types of catholics and only roman catholics fall under the vactican. -
The reason why i speak out against these self proclaimed "new age" churches or "feel good" churches is because they are misrepresenting the christian faith.
Existing christian establishments have enough scandals and internal problems that are being publicised and bashed. There is no necessity to introduce quack christians to create more problems. -
i also wanna set up my own organisation called monetary harvest, i don't care what you believe in as long as you put money into my coffers. sounds good eh? anyone interested?
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As you can tell, wordings are very important in such endeavours. Perhaps you should change the name to something more ambiguous... I would suggest "Spiritually Rich Harvest" "Urban Harvest"Originally posted by vito_corleone:i also wanna set up my own organisation called monetary harvest, i don't care what you believe in as long as you put money into my coffers. sounds good eh? anyone interested?
Furthermore, it might be unhealthy to label your followers as "idiots" or suckers, no matter how accurate the term might be. Words like "chosen ones" or "saved few" would be more welcomed.
Also, physical coercion is not necessary despite what others say about "smithing" those that do not believe you.
And on a personal note, please marry a singer prettier than horse face. It hurts my eyes everytime she appears on the newspapers. -
Err... you know something.... Roman Catholics are more traditional and follow quite a lot of rules .... It is easier to control more conversative people ba and most of them will not go around making trouble.Originally posted by SilverPal:You mentioned that CHC has a problem controlling their followers due to the hugh number of followers. My point was that the vactican does a better job of controlling roman catholics around the world and the various muslim factions also are able to control their followers although they have a greater number of followers.
If this number of followers can prove to be too large a number for hugo boss poster boy to handle, then how can he expand further? he'll only introduce further factional splitting and increase the number of ppl against CHC.
Of course, islam is divided into many different school of thinking and thus we think that muslim leaders are unable to control their ppl. There are also different types of catholics and only roman catholics fall under the vactican.
But for CHC, they adopt the conventional approach. They modernise Christianity. All are free to interpret the scripture they want. And many are not so conservative and like those hip hop thing (hip hop no wrong lar...) ..... Oh ya, one more thing. Vision. They like to talk about vision. Vision this vision that. So,well, when people confused vision with just normal day-dreams or whatever thingy .... it can be chaotic lo. Maybe they are too passionate or over passionate?
So well, which group of people are easier to control?
The above is just my perceptives. If you think they are wrong. Please correct me with politeness. TY. -
fwah....Originally posted by happyharvest:Err... you know something.... Roman Catholics are more traditional and follow quite a lot of rules .... It is easier to control more conversative people ba and most of them will not go around making trouble.
But for CHC, they adopt the conventional approach. They modernise Christianity. All are free to interpret the scripture they want. And many are not so conservative and like those hip hop thing (hip hop no wrong lar...) ..... Oh ya, one more thing. Vision. They like to talk about vision. Vision this vision that. So,well, when people confused vision with just normal day-dreams or whatever thingy .... it can be chaotic lo. Maybe they are too passionate or over passionate?
So well, which group of people are easier to control?
The above is just my perceptives. If you think they are wrong. Please correct me with politeness. TY. -
to frustmom...it really shows HOW much u KNOW abt the church world. time to do ur reading...
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Hi, I do agree with you on the fact that RC are more conservative and are thus easier to control.Originally posted by happyharvest:Err... you know something.... Roman Catholics are more traditional and follow quite a lot of rules .... It is easier to control more conversative people ba and most of them will not go around making trouble.
But for CHC, they adopt the conventional approach. They modernise Christianity. All are free to interpret the scripture they want. And many are not so conservative and like those hip hop thing (hip hop no wrong lar...) ..... Oh ya, one more thing. Vision. They like to talk about vision. Vision this vision that. So,well, when people confused vision with just normal day-dreams or whatever thingy .... it can be chaotic lo. Maybe they are too passionate or over passionate?
So well, which group of people are easier to control?
The above is just my perceptives. If you think they are wrong. Please correct me with politeness. TY.
From a strictly personal point of view, I feel that christians, zealous or not, should not misrepresent the faith. Hanging out at bus stops and mrt stations asking random passerbys to attend their services hint at desperation for not meeting their quota.
Christians should be expected to learn about the faith for a period of time before being baptised. Even the Catholic baptism that may take many years is not foolproof, yet new age christians make do with a baptism process of a few months. In fact, as I have posted before, the baptism class for many new age christian groups does not teach you the fundamentals with the intention for you to know and understand the faith, it is for you to conduct "street witnessing", which means you learn how to hang out at bus stops and mrt stations to convert ppl.
Hence, many christians are left with a rudimentary understanding fo the christian faith.
Furthermore, as a religious leader, no matter what religion, a pastor has to uphold certain societial moral standards. Instances of lying (or not correcting others' misinterpretations), misrepresentations, extravagance (however you spell it) and materistic tendancies are all viewed negatively by our society and should not be present in a religious leader. -
Many ppl become christians without understanding what religions are really out there. It is so sad. In today's information age, they are unable to even have basic knowledge on such topics.
A personal encounter I had, this christian was slamming catholics for "idol worship", "crucifying our Lord in all their churches", "projecting the image that Jesus is dead" and being "worshippers of Mary".
I will not dignify such childish and groundless accusations with a justification but perhaps Google can enlighten most simplistic queries about the Catholic faith. -
and people become Catholics know what they are in for? hmmm...Originally posted by SilverPal:Many ppl become christians without understanding what religions are really out there. It is so sad. In today's information age, they are unable to even have basic knowledge on such topics.
A personal encounter I had, this christian was slamming catholics for "idol worship", "crucifying our Lord in all their churches", "projecting the image that Jesus is dead" and being "worshippers of Mary".
I will not dignify such childish and groundless accusations with a justification but perhaps Google can enlighten most simplistic queries about the Catholic faith.
childish n groundless accusations...tsk tsk. -
How to grant licenses for churches like that?
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n ya...how to grant licenses to mosques, temples and whatever like that?Originally posted by laurence82:How to grant licenses for churches like that? -
As I have said in a previous post, the many years of baptism still does not guarantee a foolproof method of letting ppl know what it means to be Catholic, but it still does a better job than a 1 day seminar where at the end of the day we are considered "saved" and "converted".Originally posted by tiggersgd:and people become Catholics know what they are in for? hmmm...
childish n groundless accusations...tsk tsk. -
hey hey stupid,Originally posted by tiggersgd:and people become Catholics know what they are in for? hmmm...
childish n groundless accusations...tsk tsk.
don't at his post unless you know your material.
you think catholics/buddhist/taoist/muslim want to be can be ah ?
sorry man real religions have real shepherds, and real shephers never take crazy sheep.
it's not like chc - a few words like "YES I LOVE THE LORD" = member of THEIR (NOTE: THEIRS ONLY, NOT OTHERS) church - or one action (donating $$$$$ to support ma lian's horrid career) ..
People who wanna become catholics have to study for 1 year before ANY PRIEST will allow the basic rites of conversation ok. THE VATICAN sets rules for this and in SINGAPORE the ARCHDIOCESE controls and overlooks the NATIONWIDE education BY THE PRIESTS (more like overlooked and supervised - each and every session ok) .. it's called RCIA/RCIY ..
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f*cking stupid you know .. groundless comments .. look who is talking
Warmest Regards,
SupaFatty
EDIT: just a small edit to say that if I appear worked up - I AM - because it's ridiculous how mindless your post is! especially considering that the purposed "substance" is that of flaming another's for being groundless. -
Gee, frustmon and i were talking abt her ideas to issue licenses for churches, so that all the abovementioned harm will be reduced. and i was trying to tell her the complexity of itOriginally posted by tiggersgd:n ya...how to grant licenses to mosques, temples and whatever like that?
and sheesh, if you wish to create fire by bringing in mosques and temples, so be it. i am used to christians flaming other faiths anyway... -
I don't know what sort of "christians" (prob CHC's) would flame another person's religion - I as a christian definitely do not flame any other religion - and the basis of me flaming CHC is that I don't consider CHC to be preaching or practising any religion.Originally posted by laurence82:Gee, frustmon and i were talking abt her ideas to issue licenses for churches, so that all the abovementioned harm will be reduced. and i was trying to tell her the complexity of it
and sheesh, if you wish to create fire by bringing in mosques and temples, so be it. i am used to christians flaming other faiths anyway... -
and sheesh to this pointOriginally posted by tiggersgd:and people become Catholics know what they are in for? hmmm...
childish n groundless accusations...tsk tsk.
The Catholics have always been defending their faith, unlike people who have been proactive as to accuse them of the most heinous crimes.
If i am not wrong, you are from CHC, the church that only know how to misinterpret the bibles and tell others that tehy are wrong? No wonder for yoru attitude.