Originally posted by Mr Fugue:
''ba zi'' refers to the NAMES of the heavenly stems and earthly branches of one's birth details. altogether eight of them (chinese characters), hence it's called ''ba zi'' (eight characters)
chi is the ''implications'' brought by the 8 characters.
You have ask for one's birth details for seeing his/she Zi Wei Dou Shu eariler. Now you say the heavenly stems & earthly branch of one's birth details altogether eight of them, hence it's call "Ba Zi". Then you have say before "You do not need a person's Ba Zi to plot the Zi Wei Chart." Is it One's birth details = Ba Zi you were saying above? And at first you say need then no need. Contradict yourself

You say "Ba Zi=the study of "CHI" energy phase at that time of date & time one is born"

Ba Zi as you said above is one's birth detail & THAT'S IT. The ....STUDY of "Ba Zi".... should be better call Ba Zi reading or Ba Zi Analysis is what you mean right?
In any case you will still need Birth Details (which is too bad it's call "Ba Zi" in most fortune telling technology

) to Plot your Zi Wei Dou Shu 12 Palace.
In the Study of Ba Zi Analysis there is some things call "Chi Shi" & Energy Balance ("Chi" Balancing) in relationship with "Ba Zi" but it's not Ba Zi itself or "Chi/Energy" it's not equal to "Ba Zi". "Ba Zi" is the Master Key to open the door to unseen informations. Even Zi Wei Dou Shu technology needs this master key to open it's door.
I think much of your statement contradicted yourself. Maybe you have restriction in certain things. More acceptance better, be it good or bad.
Or should you say: You need one's birth details (too bad it's still the "Ba Zi") then can "See" the Zi Wei Dou Shu & sometime not need one's birth details also can see

(Never know One don't need Ba Zi to lay out Zi Wei Dou Shu's Palace

:lol

There are "Other" predictions which do not need one's Birth Details (Ba Zi).
Example "Face Reading", "Palm Reading", "Bone Reading ("Mou Ku" maybe I did not spell it correctly)", "Chi Men Duan Chia", ...
I am not angry at you (really). It's a good discussion.
