WHERE IS GOD ??
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Here is one insight I read from the web.
Can we all assume, whether we are believers or non believers, at least for the sake of argument, that GOD is perfect?
If we agree GOD is perfect, then consider this: Scripture does say (or at least suggest strongly?) GOD cannot lie!
There is no strong objection that Adam and Eve had free will (or they wouldn't disobey GOD). Ask yourself one question: does GOD have free will? If He cannot lie, so does He have free will?
If a perfect being has no free will .. then it is very much debatable a free will being can be labelled perfect.
The next question is: does it mean GOD, a perfect being, cannot possibly create a free will being, aka imperfect being? -
So let's just conclude only GOD is perfect. Adam and Eve were not. There is always the danger of equivocation. I suggest we refrain from using the term "perfect" to label Adam and Eve.
We can only say, GOD declared Adam and Eve "good", they were created "good", model human beings. Too bad they sinned. But the Gospels present Jesus, who is what Adam should be from the beginning - obedient to God, love God, love neighbours, blah blah. -
it's like saying a PERFECT machine that produces faulty products.Originally posted by Icemoon:The next question is: does it mean GOD, a perfect being, cannot possibly create a free will being, aka imperfect being?
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soooooooo......... since our faults/sins are due to god, can god go to hell for us??
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well .. according to the xtian argument .. 'god' went up the cross for us.Originally posted by Mr Fugue:soooooooo......... since our faults/sins are due to god, can god go to hell for us?? -
A perfect machine produces products that were good and all of them will pass inspection. No defects, I mean.Originally posted by Mr Fugue:it's like saying a PERFECT machine that produces faulty products.
From reality, a perfect computer algorithm will work for all cases .. just like a perfect scientific theory will explain all hypothesis.
We cannot claim that those products will not go spoilt.
If you were to go and smash these products, you think they will spoil or not? -
that's why guarantees doesn't cover self-inflicted damage.Originally posted by Icemoon:A perfect machine produces products that were good and all of them will pass inspection. No defects, I mean.
We cannot claim that those products will not go spoilt.
If you were to go and smash these products, you think they will spoil or not?
oh, btw, where is god's guarantee that humans will not go bad??
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God never guaranteed that.Originally posted by Mr Fugue:oh, btw, where is god's guarantee that humans will not go bad??
And I don't think Scripture suggests He did. -
well .. according to the xtian argument .. 'god' went up the cross for us.
To be more precise it is G*d own Son as in the test tube baby conceived together with Mary
PS.... yes G*d do have sperm like we human cuz afterall we are built in His image -
just out of interest, who is god's wife??Originally posted by sohguanh:To be more precise it is G*d own Son as in the test tube baby conceived together with Mary
PS.... yes G*d do have sperm like we human cuz afterall we are built in His image -
no wonder.Originally posted by Icemoon:God never guaranteed that. -
just out of interest, who is god's wife??
No fixed wife so as to speak I guess. If He so desire he can handpick any Earth women to be his wife without the physical act of copulation of cuz. Now know why emperor and kings can have one wife and so many concubines official and unofficial? Remember man was created in His image? Well that explain it all
Somehow I am trying to imagine how do He derive satisfaction from breeding a child without the physical act? Telepathic orgasm? Scene from some futurisitc movies portray making it out telepathically -
Wow!!Originally posted by sohguanh:No fixed wife so as to speak I guess. If He so desire he can handpick any Earth women to be his wife without the physical act of copulation of cuz. Now know why emperor and kings can have one wife and so many concubines official and unofficial? Remember man was created in His image? Well that explain it all
then, how many wives does he have now??
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Wow!!
then, how many wives does he have now??
If our chinese emperor can have 1 wife and 3000 concubine I guess he must have much more. Furthermore he is not limited in choice of race and nationality. He must be one huge s*x machine on an eternal orgy doing it wireless everyday.
Read somewhere of alien abduction of Earth women who experience being subjected to that s*x act and later giving birth to be taken away when it is due for birth? That explain it all -
Wow!!
what a good moral example to follow!! Originally posted by sohguanh:If our chinese emperor can have 1 wife and 3000 concubine I guess he must have much more. Furthermore he is not limited in choice of race and nationality. He must be one huge s*x machine on an eternal orgy doing it wireless everyday.
Read somewhere of alien abduction of Earth women who experience being subjected to that s*x act and later giving birth to be taken away when it is due for birth? That explain it all -
about this wife thingy, can anyone confirm this?
I find it quite ridiculous and hard-to-believe!! -
I find it quite ridiculous and hard-to-believe!!
What is hard to believe? The divine act of making out? -
It was never mentioned what kind of image .. and you assumed it was a physical image?Originally posted by sohguanh:[b]PS.... yes G*d do have sperm like we human cuz afterall we are built in His image -
Actually it was Abraham's fault if I'm not wrong.Originally posted by sohguanh:Sarah is an unforiving wife lah. If that time no despise them then all under one faith but fussy wife left behind a legacy saga that spans centuries till this day. Abraham also weakling or maybe at that time he too old to pick a fight with his wife...
'cos he too impatient wanted a child and complicated family matters. I may be wrong. -
I think Mr Fugue is blasting away with loads of incredible ideas... Its like why is the earth not square.. why down .. and not up ? Why North n not South. jeezez christ..
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Actually it was Abraham's fault if I'm not wrong.
'cos he too impatient wanted a child and complicated family matters. I may be wrong.
Actually I envious of Abraham leh... so old already still can be a father. Furthermore can do with the wife and maid leh. No wonder nowadays in spore we hear of man hanky panky with maid when wife not around. Seem to be a tradition passed down from our ancestors huh -
Originally posted by sohguanh:
Erm .. except this time it was Sarah's maid .. lol
[bActually I envious of Abraham leh... so old already still can be a father. Furthermore can do with the wife and maid leh. No wonder nowadays in spore we hear of man hanky panky with maid when wife not around. Seem to be a tradition passed down from our ancestors huh [/b]
The lesson is something very practical .. you fool around you pay the price .. or your children pay the price. Your children pay for your sins.
Look at Emperor Kangxi .. so many children .. in the end sibling rivalry. -
If he does, then he probably can't be god liao... And pls... Don't think too highly of god sometimes... No doubt, he's 'good'... But 'PERFECT'...?Originally posted by Mr Fugue:why don't he just appear ONCE to clear up the misunderstanding that he realli exist??
people can take photos of him and leave it as evidence for future generations mah, why don't god just do it lehz?? 
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This is going no where... So let me muddy the waters even more haha...
Sorry its going to be pretty Christian biased...
Let us use our imagination.
What if...
God took direct control of the world. We are as we are, with Free Will and all. But God keeps all of us well fed, everyday wake up you have food to eat. Anytime the weather goes out of control He would say the word and everything is back to normal.
So basically, there are no worries. Everyday from the moment you wake up you are fed. No danger, cos under God's protection.
Give us a million years from creation and we'll STILL be naked, don't even know how to take care of ourselves. A farcry from what we are today...
Perfect world? As a parent would you want that for your children? I would do that to my pet, but not my child.
All part of the plan baby
Its a decision made from the beginning. That we will be given the necessary tools (our 2 hands 2 legs and a smarter than the average ape brain), and even a headstart - clothing so the first 2 dudes don't die from the weather...)
If we take the Biblical version of man's beginning, Adam and Eve were given time in the garden to learn about ALL the plants and animals there are. Basically given the knowledge they need to survive before finally being released into the wild, the TRUE beginning and God hands-off from there. To me, Satan did not win by succeeding in tempting Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. God allowed that to happen. It was all part of His grand plan. The final gift to complete our Free Will. To be given the power to CHOOSE. Could Satan have tempted them before they were ready? No way... the TIME was chosen by God. Smart as Satan thought He was, God is a billion steps ahead.
Show us You're God
God did step in to show the way to Him every now and then. And finally He did walk among men once more. As a man. Why a man? I believe His purpose was not to prove that He existed. Come on, there are enough evidence that He exists. It was to take away the excuses that man had been giving throughout their existence. That they cannot live up to God's expectations. That His instructions are too harsh and difficult to follow.
Here comes the interesting part.
Then people argue, But Jesus is God, of course He can do it. So we admit He is God yea? And if He is God, then what He said should be heeded as words from God isn't it?
Oh, then we say, nah Jesus isn't God at all. So how did He do what no one has ever been able to do? No, not all the miracles. But to live a life free from Sin! If He isn't God, then ANYONE of us can do it. Prove He isn't God by doing it!
Argue all you want... Say that the people who wrote about Him idolised Him and left out the places where He succumbed to Sin. You know how true that is. If the leader you believed in and lived for one day turned out to be a fraud, would you continue convincing others he is authentic and even give your life for him? Put yourself in the Disciple's shoes.
Back to Show Us You're God..
People saw Him, touched Him, were cured by Him. He told them He is God. Yet there were still people who did not believe. What more do you want? Would anything change if He came in our time instead? If we believe now because we saw Him, would our decendants centuries down the road believe because of what we saw? Given the technology then, they would brush off the whold thing as a gimmick, a fraud, the way we are right now wouldn't they?
John 20:29 - "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
(Told to Thomas who insisted on seeing the resurrected Christ before believing...)
How would you have done it if you wanted to have a creation that had free will, maximise their potential, and eventually come to know their Creator?[/b] -
Not everybody is a Christian. Who would bother to read the bible when there are so many contradictions. God is perfect but the followers are not. Therefore the interpretation are all full of flaws. They interpret what they want to preach. They rebutt for the sake of rebutal. This is one example of expecting everybody to understand what is in bible to rebutt. Typical of their approach.Originally posted by NT2:such discussion can only continue when both parties have a understanding of the Bible. not writing your own nonsensical bible and quote from it.