Biased
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>>sunday tnp report about job seekers whom r accessed on their language skills particularly mandarin ; actually discriminaion nott only exists on this area as a male fren whom always applied unsuccessfully for pre-sch teacher >> they wan females (irony as another tnp report in countries where females charged with sexual relatns wif students) n this put off those male candicates whom have passion in their careers;
or other positions where specifically they also state in adv. tat they require females only ..enlighten us the logic leh
:r
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Taken from The New Paper:
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THE job advertisements made her mad.
Indian housewife R Mages, 32, was looking for a clerical job in the classified ads six months ago.
'Every time, every day, you just go to the admin jobs section and there'll be some ads with Chinese as a requirement.'
Even when she called companies that didn't ask for Mandarin proficiency, she would be told Mandarin speakers were needed.
'We are a multi-cultural society, we should not just be going for one race,' she said.
But is it a race or language issue?
One Indian who can speak some Mandarin said that it helped her in her predominantly Chinese office.
The manufacturing engineer who wanted to only be known as Ms Salma, 28, said: 'There's a wall that's removed. You're more approachable in work situations.'
Speaking the language got her through the door. Making friends was a different matter.
She said: 'On virtue of not being Chinese, of not sharing the same sociological viewpoints, I was still left out.'
Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong warned employers last month not to discriminate against non-Chinese by setting Mandarin as a requirement when it's not needed.
Similarly, Deputy Prime Minister Wong Kan Seng said recently that if Chinese employers were to discriminate by race, the situation could potentially be a 'time bomb' if the jobless felt marginalised.
When you have many employers advertising for Mandarin speakers, does it make it more difficult for ethnic minorities here?
Madam Halimah Yacob, NTUC assistant secretary-general, 51, said: 'Yes, it does, if speaking Mandarin is not necessary in order to perform the job.
'But we also have to be realistic. Not all failures on the part of a non-Chinese to get a job is because of discrimination...
'Skills and experience are still the predominant factors.'
Guidelines were set in March 1999 by the Ministry of Manpower, National Trades Union Congress and the Singapore National Employers Federation, that job advertisements cannot use race as a criterion.
But Madam Halimah said: 'It is only a guideline and does not have the force of law.
'The other problem is investigations are done quietly and the outcome is not shared with the public.'
The Ministry of Manpower said it received 29 cases of feedback or complaints from job seekers last year.
They were mainly on job advertisements that stipulated proficiency in Mandarin or bilingualism in English and Mandarin as requirements. -
appreciate>>shutter for the articleOriginally posted by ShutterBug:Taken from The New Paper:
========================
THE job advertisements made her mad.
Indian housewife R Mages, 32, was looking for a clerical job in the classified ads six months ago.
'Every time, every day, you just go to the admin jobs section and there'll be some ads with Chinese as a requirement.'
Even when she called companies that didn't ask for Mandarin proficiency, she would be told Mandarin speakers were needed.
'We are a multi-cultural society, we should not just be going for one race,' she said.
But is it a race or language issue?
One Indian who can speak some Mandarin said that it helped her in her predominantly Chinese office.
The manufacturing engineer who wanted to only be known as Ms Salma, 28, said: 'There's a wall that's removed. You're more approachable in work situations.'
Speaking the language got her through the door. Making friends was a different matter.
She said: 'On virtue of not being Chinese, of not sharing the same sociological viewpoints, I was still left out.'
Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong warned employers last month not to discriminate against non-Chinese by setting Mandarin as a requirement when it's not needed.
Similarly, Deputy Prime Minister Wong Kan Seng said recently that if Chinese employers were to discriminate by race, the situation could potentially be a 'time bomb' if the jobless felt marginalised.
When you have many employers advertising for Mandarin speakers, does it make it more difficult for ethnic minorities here?
Madam Halimah Yacob, NTUC assistant secretary-general, 51, said: 'Yes, it does, if speaking Mandarin is not necessary in order to perform the job.
'But we also have to be realistic. Not all failures on the part of a non-Chinese to get a job is because of discrimination...
'Skills and experience are still the predominant factors.'
Guidelines were set in March 1999 by the Ministry of Manpower, National Trades Union Congress and the Singapore National Employers Federation, that job advertisements cannot use race as a criterion.
But Madam Halimah said: 'It is only a guideline and does not have the force of law.
'The other problem is investigations are done quietly and the outcome is not shared with the public.'
The Ministry of Manpower said it received 29 cases of feedback or complaints from job seekers last year.
They were mainly on job advertisements that stipulated proficiency in Mandarin or bilingualism in English and Mandarin as requirements. -
Racialism, or more correct term discrimination, although bad exists everywhere and not just overtly in Singapore. All form of discriminations exist in this world - even in the West where they are supposed to be more democratic and thus more enlightened.
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nepotism, cryonism, racism, discrimination, favouritism and whatnot exists everywhere.
just look at the top and you know. -
I think this time round with the coming election, the threat of terrorism, the threat of pandemic desease outbreak, the govt is allowing the highlight of this old issue to ensure racial harmony and to ease somewhat the minorities' uneasiness over the shrinking job market.
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As an unemployed angmoh, my personal favorite is "Singaporean Only can apply"...
MYTH #1
Ang Mohs want to be paid LOTS of money.
FACT
Individuals are unique. The Ministry of Manpower requires, by law, a minimum of SG$2500 per month to be paid to those applying for Employment Pass. Individuals are different & unique, not everyone expects or wants the big money & package, etc.
MYTH #2
Ang mohs "work" here. They were transferred here by their previous company getting lots of package, and they want my position just as an opportunity to stay in asia or be with their spg girlfriend.
FACT
Individuals are unique. For example, I came here as a tourist - I liked it and decided to stay - not because of "the girls" like everyone says to me, and not because of a job offer. My first job paid me the bare minimum + nothing.
If someone has their family, friends, pets, clubs & organizations, etc., here, then they "live" here, they do not "work" here. And some of us, like myself, am trying to get a PR, to make this our new home, and to be accepted, but without an Employment Pass or jumping into marriage, there is no way to do that.
Not all of us go for the spg (even if I wanted to, I am too poor anyway). The ones who do go for spg seems like they'd be great for Sales
(again, not me) - but I wouldn't trust that type of mentality in normal jobs anyway in any country...
MYTH #3
Ang Mohs will leave the job anytime; they hear about a better offer - they leave. Something happens, they leave country. etc. etc.
FACT
Individuals are unique. A legally-binding contract at hiring on will solve those worries. Personally, with the unstable job-situation around the world, I would prefer long-term career growth within a company = stability...
MYTH #4
If foreigner, must have "Employment Pass or Work Permit to be considered for this position".
FACT
Individuals are unique. This is another way of saying "no ang mohs". Why? Because the above statement is ridiculous. One can not "have" an employment pass or work permit if they are not working. HR people know this...(see #4 for more info.)
MYTH #5
If they need E.P. (Employment Pass) - wah! too difficult leh - cannot be bothered....
FACT
Individuals are unique. When a company decideds they want to hire an individual, and they make an offer and the individual accepts. Then the individual fills out some questions on a form, and the company fills in some questions on the same form. The individual submits this form to the Ministry of Manpower, and pays them a fee that is below SG$100. Upon approval, the individual begins work.
This is a shorter & easier process than dealing with CPF, taxes, etc, etc.
The company does not have to pay taxes on individual. The company does not have to pay CPF. The company does not have to pay 13th month.
MYTH #6
Ang mohs are difficult to get along with & have no language skills.
FACT
Individuals are unique. If the individual is a cocky rude butthead, then of course that is a problem - even companies in his own country won't like that (except maybe used car sales
) !
There are many ang mohs here that do speak mandarin. There are those who do not, but would be happy to take courses.
Personally, if I had income, I'm wanting to learn mandarin proficiently, and I also want to learn Hokkien, but that one difficult to find teacher (someone needs to take the entrepreneurial spirit on this one...I am thinking they just might have a monopoly on the market and a kick-a$$ client base).
MYTH #7
Ang mohs are so high qualified - why would they be interested in my open position or company?
FACT
Individuals are unique. Qualifications depend upon individual, and where they are from. Every position and every company has potential - I shined shoes and washed dishes for 4 years; microsoft started in a garage, hewlett-packard started in a barn, yahoo started in a dorm room, etc...
Qualifications?
If the ang moh is from the usa, like myself, he might not have. In the usa life is different in general, and we value skills & experience over paper. Some individuals can not pay the high costs of universities, some have to work to support dying parents, some don't fall into the proper category to receive loans from the govt., and some have all of the above troubles.
How about for the fellow who is in all the above, and yet finds ways to educate himself, and gets the needed skills, experience and more on his own? To me, this shows extreme work-ethic, creativity, persistence, etc. - all the things that I'd want for my team. I am not talking about making an offer to garun guni man w/o skillz here...
Ever hear of Microsoft? Mr. Gates never finished university. Yeah, but any others? Yep - The chief executive of the Chicago Stock Exchange, former chairman of Merrill Lynch, former head of New York Stock Exchange, founder of Dell (yes, the computer company), chief executive of Oracle, founder of Gateway, Ted Turner - owner of CNN, AOL (and a LOT of other companies), president of ABC Entertainment, former managing director of Korn/Ferry International, Steve Jobs of Apple, and many others.
CONCLUSION
I know these are myths. I know there are the facts that refute the myths. I know that there is a common mind-set and this will not change anything, regardless of logic. I know many ang mohs here will continue to make all ang mohs look bad.
However, all I can say is...Individuals are unique....
And oh yeah....Gimme a job, dammit! -
Racism does exist everywhere. In the usa it does exist. But you will not find this extreme of ads in the papers, etc. Most of it is only in history - but old small towns, you can still find ignorance, like you find here.Originally posted by pat33:Racialism, or more correct term discrimination, although bad exists everywhere and not just overtly in Singapore. All form of discriminations exist in this world - even in the West where they are supposed to be more democratic and thus more enlightened.
Democracy is not Enlightenment....And neither word has anything to do with racism...However I don't see that defending racism by saying it is everywhere is a good thing...Let's just try to have a little more heart and see every person as a person with unique traits, and value them for who they are. -
Mind your bloody lang here Who the hell you calling ignoranceOriginally posted by Northwind:Racism does exist everywhere. In the usa it does exist. But you will not find this extreme of ads in the papers, etc. Most of it is only in history - but old small towns, you can still find ignorance, like you find here.
Democracy is not Enlightenment....And neither word has anything to do with racism...However I don't see that defending racism by saying it is everywhere is a good thing...Let's just try to have a little more heart and see every person as a person with unique traits, and value them for who they are.
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Nobody said democracy = enlighten. Did I said that in my thread? Read carefully before you reply or post. Did I said Racialism is good? I said racialism is discrimination and it is bad. Read carefully again.Originally posted by Northwind:Racism does exist everywhere. In the usa it does exist. But you will not find this extreme of ads in the papers, etc. Most of it is only in history - but old small towns, you can still find ignorance, like you find here.
Democracy is not Enlightenment....And neither word has anything to do with racism...However I don't see that defending racism by saying it is everywhere is a good thing...Let's just try to have a little more heart and see every person as a person with unique traits, and value them for who they are. -
If you defined racialism narrowly by the ads in the newspaper, you miss the point, my friend. In the West, they may not ads in the newspaper about color, race and religion. But the moment you appear before them, they would pass you on. As I said many countries, esp the western countries may not do it overtly but it is subtle and it is there. So long as diff and prejudice in human exists, discrimination too will exist. No form of govt legislation or law can completely eredicate it.Originally posted by Northwind:Racism does exist everywhere. In the usa it does exist. But you will not find this extreme of ads in the papers, etc. Most of it is only in history - but old small towns, you can still find ignorance, like you find here.
Democracy is not Enlightenment....And neither word has anything to do with racism...However I don't see that defending racism by saying it is everywhere is a good thing...Let's just try to have a little more heart and see every person as a person with unique traits, and value them for who they are. -
lol - you are trying to incite here....I did not call anyone ignorance, and I didnt call anyone ignorant either. Ignorance is a "state", meaning that it exists everywhere - individuals are unique, and you will find ignorance in the usa, and here as well. that was my point.Originally posted by pat33:Mind your bloody lang here Who the hell you calling ignorance -
Uh, yes you did. You said "...be more democratic and thus more enlightened." the word thus means because of, consequently, etc.Originally posted by pat33:Nobody said democracy = enlighten. Did I said that in my thread? Read carefully before you reply or post. Did I said Racialism is good? I said racialism is discrimination and it is bad. Read carefully again.
I am simply saying that someone is discussing troublesome situation, and if the only answer we can give is that the same problem is everywhere is not good. Your statement is TRUE, however it's not helping
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Sorry, but I don't define it that way....my friend...Originally posted by pat33:If you defined racialism narrowly by the ads in the newspaper, you miss the point, my friend. In the West, they may not ads in the newspaper about color, race and religion. But the moment you appear before them, they would pass you on. As I said many countries, esp the western countries may not do it overtly but it is subtle and it is there. So long as diff and prejudice in human exists, discrimination too will exist. No form of govt legislation or law can completely eredicate it.
The apathy is the problem... And as I said, yes I know all of what you are saying is true...However, if you see my original post up there, I am trying to do something about it - there are myths, and then I try to help by correcting them. -
Yes You did here......Originally posted by Northwind:lol - you are trying to incite here....I did not call anyone ignorance, and I didnt call anyone ignorant either. Ignorance is a "state", meaning that it exists everywhere - individuals are unique, and you will find ignorance in the usa, and here as well. that was my point.
Racism does exist everywhere. In the usa it does exist. But you will not find this extreme of ads in the papers, etc. Most of it is only in history - but old small towns, you can still find ignorance, like you find here. -
Read in my context and not your context. I meant raciallsim also exist in the supposedly more democratic countires, like the Western nations. I did not equate democracy like to way you equate democracy with enlightenment.Originally posted by Northwind:Uh, yes you did. You said "...be more democratic and thus more enlightened." the word thus means because of, consequently, etc.
I am simply saying that someone is discussing troublesome situation, and if the only answer we can give is that the same problem is everywhere is not good. Your statement is TRUE, however it's not helping
So what if my thread is not good enough for you? It is not for you to brush ppl aside like to way you did. I did not write in response to you. You wrote response to us. -
Originally posted by pat33:
I sent you a PM about this and you choose to ignore...Okay....Then I will have to say it in public....
Yes You did here......
Racism does exist everywhere. In the usa it does exist. But you will not find this extreme of ads in the papers, etc. Most of it is only in history - but old small towns, you can still find ignorance, [b]like you find here.
[/b]
Ignorance and Ignorant are two different things.... -
Can you lay off the heat? Why do you come across as rude and wanting to be beligerant?Originally posted by pat33:Read in my context and not your context. I meant raciallsim also exist in the supposedly more democratic countires, like the Western nations. I did not equate democracy like to way you equate democracy with enlightenment.
So what if my thread is not good enough for you? It is not for you to brush ppl aside like to way you did. I did not write in response to you. You wrote response to us.
I am not brushing any person aside. I responded to the issue. Tell me what it is you are so upset with me about. -
Ignorant - adjOriginally posted by Northwind:I sent you a PM about this and you choose to ignore...Okay....Then I will have to say it in public....
Ignorance and Ignorant are two different things....
ignorance - nounce
You can choose to say it however you choose. It is the meaning and how you put forth.
I state my positions
I do not condone discrimination. But a fact and is here and everywhere.
I do not trivialised, generalised or talked it away. This is not my style.
I just read your PM message, I sympathise with you. I hope your first posting in this forum helps you to achieve whatever you hope to achieve here in Sg. -
First off the word is Noun. Not nounce. Secondly, you know what I was trying to say, but are twisting it to make it sound as though I am insulting you or am insulting singapore. I think everyone else here knows what I meant.Originally posted by pat33:Ignorant - adj
ignorance - nounce
You can choose to say it however you choose. It is the meaning and how you put forth.
I state my positions
I do not condone discrimination. But a fact and is here and everywhere.
I do not trivialised, generalised or talked it away. This is not my style.
I just read your PM message, I sympathise with you. I hope your first posting in this forum helps you to achieve whatever you hope to achieve here in Sg.
And what I hope to achieve here in singapore...you dont condone racism and yet...you can not think that maybe I am trying to make Singapore my home??
Read my first post again - I am not "working here"...I am trying to live here...
Many thanks for your sincere sympathies... -
Don't come here and show off your perfect English, ok? This is a forum not some English Lesson. Nobody cares about your "English lessons" here.Originally posted by Northwind:First off the word is Noun. Not nounce. Secondly, you know what I was trying to say, but are twisting it to make it sound as though I am insulting you or am insulting singapore. I think everyone else here knows what I meant.
And what I hope to achieve here in singapore...you dont condone racism and yet...you can not think that maybe I am trying to make Singapore my home??
Read my first post again - I am not "working here"...I am trying to live here...
Many thanks for your sincere sympathies...
Nobody twists your word here. Who cares if you make it here in Sg. Ang Mo like you - no sympathy. Can't make it here can simply go back to your country. Let me ask you what about those singaporean who are unemployed? Do they have a country to go back to? -
tsk tsk tskOriginally posted by Northwind:Can you lay off the heat? Why do you come across as rude and wanting to be beligerant?
I am not brushing any person aside. I responded to the issue. Tell me what it is you are so upset with me about.
You may not be direct as me but you are rude, ok. Have it occurs to you that maybe to live here in sg, Ang mo like you should get off your high horse? Twisting your words here and there and giving ppl English lessons. -
LOL!!!!Originally posted by pat33:Don't come here and show off your perfect English, ok? This is a forum not some English Lesson. Nobody cares about your "English lessons" here.
Nobody twists your word here. Who cares if you make it here in Sg. Ang Mo like you - no sympathy. Can't make it here can simply go back to your country. Let me ask you what about those singaporean who are unemployed? Do they have a country to go back to?
You are not racist and do not condone it, right? LOL!!!
Evidently you didn't read my first post...
Where am I giving lessons? Simply because you twisted my word to make it look like I was giving an insult, and it didnt work?
Of course you have no sympathy - I have done much wrong to you...(sarcasm)...
I can just go back to my country izzit? Okay, buy me an airplane ticket. Buy me a home to live in over there, and find me a job. Otherwise, talk about things with truth please. Don't even try to incite people - you are trying to make it Singapore vs. the ang moh. Get a clue and learn more that people do not fit nicely into boxes that you have stereotyped... -
northwind,
which country are you from?
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Ang moh like me? You dont even know me. What high horse, moron? I have zero money, no job, no family, no friends, and waaaay too many people "like you" who dont take the time to know the truth about someone - but just treat them because of their skin color. Where the hell is the area to be on high horse??? Ang moh like me....English lessons...lmao...try again...Originally posted by pat33:tsk tsk tsk
You may not be direct as me but you are rude, ok. Have it occurs to you that maybe to live here in sg, Ang mo like you should get off your high horse? Twisting your words here and there and giving ppl English lessons.