CHC Voluntary Pastor
-
I agree with you... Its so bizzare! Its like to them, heaven is a gentlemen's club, must pay for membership fees... about 12% per month.Originally posted by nanren4ever:short charging god ??? wah lau, machiam as if their god is like some merchant and u give them less then they KBKB. the argument is flawed lor, God should not care how much or whether if u GIVE at all, since he is supposed to love u all the same, no matter what.
And what kind of saying is that the more u give, the more assured ur place is in heaven?? Like that I rather burn hell notes, ask my ancestors help me book a place along with them even better. At least u burn hell notes supposedly will reach them below mah. U give money is give to the church, to humans, who knows what they do with the money. Sooner or later, I dare say one of the church will kenna the NKF saga, mishandling of the money -
This actually does lead to social issues.Originally posted by SilverPal:I agree with you... Its so bizzare! Its like to them, heaven is a gentlemen's club, must pay for membership fees... about 12% per month.
I have come across parents complaining that their children stop giving them money after they join some church. Why? Because they give them money to the church instead of their parents. The sad thing is... all these ppl are educated and yet they think it's God's command to give so much every month from their salary.
I hope the govt can look into this kind of "compulsory donation". -
No money how to build titanium structures to reach heaven?Originally posted by Honeybunz:This actually does lead to social issues.
I have come across parents complaining that their children stop giving them money after they join some church. Why? Because they give them money to the church instead of their parents. The sad thing is... all these ppl are educated and yet they think it's God's command to give so much every month from their salary.
I hope the govt can look into this kind of "compulsory donation".
-
Maybe lorOriginally posted by charlize:No money how to build titanium structures to reach heaven? -
I dun think its compulsory lah. You don't give what can they do to you? If they force you to give then you should report police. Anyway I think $8k is really very little. Imagine a multimillion coropration CEO could easily earn more than 20k-50k+++ A month. And even a Master Warrant or Colnel in the army earns as much as $8K. $8k is quite underpaid for running a multi million corporation which could be quite draining in your life and time. Imagine an average CEO works about 70 hours a week. Frankly I think its already quite under paid. I could have earn as much and more without running a big organisation like that and working less hours. Even a specialist surgen or a GP doctor could earn as much and more. What he earns through other means is really none of the public business. If he wants to put on a show... why would he do so at no benefit of himself? Zero pay more working hours and no fringe benefits at all, not to mention that the church doesn't give dividends and shares. Would you guys do that? I know I wouldn't.
Since he is offering to do for free as social service to others why the bother and the fuss? Afterall he is not paid. -
I dun think its compulsory lah. You don't give what can they do to you? If they force you to give then you should report police. Anyway I think $8k is really very little. Imagine a multimillion coropration CEO could easily earn more than 20k-50k+++ A month. And even a Master Warrant or Colnel in the army earns as much as $8K. $8k is quite underpaid for running a multi million corporation which could be quite draining in your life and time. Imagine an average CEO works about 70 hours a week. Frankly I think its already quite under paid. I could have earn as much and more without running a big organisation like that and working less hours. Even a specialist surgen or a GP doctor could earn as much and more. What he earns through other means is really none of the public business. If he wants to put on a show... why would he do so at no benefit of himself? Zero pay more working hours and no fringe benefits at all, not to mention that the church doesn't give dividends and shares. Would you guys do that? I know I wouldn't.
Since he is offering to do for free as social service to others why the bother and the fuss? Afterall he is not paid. There are already enough threats of this church... Please close ban thank you. -
So you admit he is running a corporation or business and not doing it for religious purposes?Originally posted by banzie:I dun think its compulsory lah. You don't give what can they do to you? If they force you to give then you should report police. Anyway I think $8k is really very little. Imagine a multimillion coropration CEO could easily earn more than 20k-50k+++ A month. And even a Master Warrant or Colnel in the army earns as much as $8K. $8k is quite underpaid for running a multi million corporation which could be quite draining in your life and time. Imagine an average CEO works about 70 hours a week. Frankly I think its already quite under paid. I could have earn as much and more without running a big organisation like that and working less hours. Even a specialist surgen or a GP doctor could earn as much and more. What he earns through other means is really none of the public business. If he wants to put on a show... why would he do so at no benefit of himself? Zero pay more working hours and no fringe benefits at all, not to mention that the church doesn't give dividends and shares. Would you guys do that? I know I wouldn't.
Since he is offering to do for free as social service to others why the bother and the fuss? Afterall he is not paid. -
But CHC is actually a church yeah?Originally posted by banzie:I dun think its compulsory lah. You don't give what can they do to you? If they force you to give then you should report police. Anyway I think $8k is really very little. Imagine a multimillion coropration CEO could easily earn more than 20k-50k+++ A month. And even a Master Warrant or Colnel in the army earns as much as $8K. $8k is quite underpaid for running a multi million corporation which could be quite draining in your life and time. Imagine an average CEO works about 70 hours a week. Frankly I think its already quite under paid. I could have earn as much and more without running a big organisation like that and working less hours. Even a specialist surgen or a GP doctor could earn as much and more. What he earns through other means is really none of the public business. If he wants to put on a show... why would he do so at no benefit of himself? Zero pay more working hours and no fringe benefits at all, not to mention that the church doesn't give dividends and shares. Would you guys do that? I know I wouldn't.
Since he is offering to do for free as social service to others why the bother and the fuss? Afterall he is not paid. There are already enough threats of this church... Please close ban thank you. -
Corporation or church?
Which one? -
it's kinda ironic you see... in the eyes of the public a church is a place of worship and a religious organisation... if a pastor is earning tons of money into his pockets, it's like running more of a coropration than a social service or religious organisation...Originally posted by banzie:I dun think its compulsory lah. You don't give what can they do to you? If they force you to give then you should report police. Anyway I think $8k is really very little. Imagine a multimillion coropration CEO could easily earn more than 20k-50k+++ A month. And even a Master Warrant or Colnel in the army earns as much as $8K. $8k is quite underpaid for running a multi million corporation which could be quite draining in your life and time. Imagine an average CEO works about 70 hours a week. Frankly I think its already quite under paid. I could have earn as much and more without running a big organisation like that and working less hours. Even a specialist surgen or a GP doctor could earn as much and more. What he earns through other means is really none of the public business. If he wants to put on a show... why would he do so at no benefit of himself? Zero pay more working hours and no fringe benefits at all, not to mention that the church doesn't give dividends and shares. Would you guys do that? I know I wouldn't.
Since he is offering to do for free as social service to others why the bother and the fuss? Afterall he is not paid. There are already enough threats of this church... Please close ban thank you. -
Alright, I am a member of a neighbourhood church before i turned to joining CHC as a member attenting their sermon's and occasional BS. Firstly i guess most people have the wrong impression on the word "Church".
Firstly, It takes lots of money to operate a almost 30,000 strong per sermon church. Never mind what it takes for all the work needed to be done.
Next, a school would need around 30,000 per month for bills, after MOE subsidised the cost. Surely a church wouldnt be less.
Thirdly, If the pastor or and head or the church shouldnt get paid, nobody would want to do it. We all have families.
Fourth, Nobody is forced to give donations, the did out of their own free will, and rest assure nobody will give u a dirty stare.
The thing i have got to agree is that, the need to build a Titanium body church is not there. -
I joined there for few years before i left. I was a hardcore, 'brainwashed' kid. Its only when i left, i realise that i got MORE MONEY in my bank account and wallet.
When i was there, i'm ALWAYS POOR, i even got to borrow money from parents/friend though i'm holding a job. 
Well, i believe that part of my money goes to maintance of church but shouldn't have quote a verse and say things like 'your place in heaven will be assured/secure.' As for tithing, its in the bible. straight and clear. -
With all the money you have given, I am sure your place in heaven will be secured.Originally posted by klishcia:I joined there for few years before i left. I was a hardcore, 'brainwashed' kid. Its only when i left, i realise that i got MORE MONEY in my bank account and wallet. When i was there, i'm ALWAYS POOR, i even got to borrow money from parents/friend though i'm holding a job. Well, i believe that part of my money goes to maintance of church but shouldn't have quote a verse and say things like 'your place in heaven will be assured/secure.' As for tithing, its in the bible. straight and clear.
Or do you have to continually renew your subscription for that place every year? -
IT's good that you're no longer 'brainwashed'Originally posted by klishcia:I joined there for few years before i left. I was a hardcore, 'brainwashed' kid. Its only when i left, i realise that i got MORE MONEY in my bank account and wallet. When i was there, i'm ALWAYS POOR, i even got to borrow money from parents/friend though i'm holding a job. Well, i believe that part of my money goes to maintance of church but shouldn't have quote a verse and say things like 'your place in heaven will be assured/secure.' As for tithing, its in the bible. straight and clear. -
You're working on the assumption that a CEO devotes 70 hours a week to his "CEO duties" and that he has to be paid the big bucks by his CEO job because he has no other sources of incomes?Originally posted by banzie:I dun think its compulsory lah. You don't give what can they do to you? If they force you to give then you should report police. Anyway I think $8k is really very little. Imagine a multimillion coropration CEO could easily earn more than 20k-50k+++ A month. And even a Master Warrant or Colnel in the army earns as much as $8K. $8k is quite underpaid for running a multi million corporation which could be quite draining in your life and time. Imagine an average CEO works about 70 hours a week. Frankly I think its already quite under paid. I could have earn as much and more without running a big organisation like that and working less hours. Even a specialist surgen or a GP doctor could earn as much and more. What he earns through other means is really none of the public business. If he wants to put on a show... why would he do so at no benefit of himself? Zero pay more working hours and no fringe benefits at all, not to mention that the church doesn't give dividends and shares. Would you guys do that? I know I wouldn't.
Since he is offering to do for free as social service to others why the bother and the fuss? Afterall he is not paid. There are already enough threats of this church... Please close ban thank you.
I believe that many CEOs have alternative sources of income to supplement their CEO salary. Durai and the CHC guy all admitted that they have other sources of income unrelated to their main CEO job. While there is nothing wrong about working many jobs to earn more, nor is there anything wrong about drawing a high pay that you deserve, it does negate their argument about not having enough money to support their family and about being poached over to another organisation.
Why should people worry that the CHC guy can be paid more in other companies as a CEO? CHC was set up by him, is he blackmailing himself? Durai sat on so many boards, he was even willing to take a cut in pay so as to be able to chair even more boards and committees.
Another thing that flummoxes me, if a CEO works an average of 70 hours per week, assuming a 6 day work week, that's 11.7 hours per day, where are they going to have time and energy to chair boards, companies and committees outside? -
Glad you clarified certain points of contention.Originally posted by loveholyspirit:Alright, I am a member of a neighbourhood church before i turned to joining CHC as a member attenting their sermon's and occasional BS. Firstly i guess most people have the wrong impression on the word "Church".
Firstly, It takes lots of money to operate a almost 30,000 strong per sermon church. Never mind what it takes for all the work needed to be done.
Next, a school would need around 30,000 per month for bills, after MOE subsidised the cost. Surely a church wouldnt be less.
Thirdly, If the pastor or and head or the church shouldnt get paid, nobody would want to do it. We all have families.
Fourth, Nobody is forced to give donations, the did out of their own free will, and rest assure nobody will give u a dirty stare.
The thing i have got to agree is that, the need to build a Titanium body church is not there.
Just wanted to bring up another point. Religious volunteers and youth volunteers are willing to go out of their way to do something they believe in.
Instead of looking at things from a secular point of view, if we look at it from a religious point of view, is ministry about dollars and cents? Will you do less for God (the one that you believe in) because you were paid less (you still get paid)? What of salvation?
Is it neccessary to live in a million dollar apartment in Orchard and don Hugo Boss suits?
If you truly believe in God, will you sing His praises or sing pop songs if you were an accomplished singer? -
Actually they need so much money 'cos of facilities and maintenance. By the way .. if you say a school still need around 30k after MOE subsidy .. where do they get the money?Originally posted by loveholyspirit:Alright, I am a member of a neighbourhood church before i turned to joining CHC as a member attenting their sermon's and occasional BS. Firstly i guess most people have the wrong impression on the word "Church".
Firstly, It takes lots of money to operate a almost 30,000 strong per sermon church. Never mind what it takes for all the work needed to be done.
Next, a school would need around 30,000 per month for bills, after MOE subsidised the cost. Surely a church wouldnt be less.
Thirdly, If the pastor or and head or the church shouldnt get paid, nobody would want to do it. We all have families.
Fourth, Nobody is forced to give donations, the did out of their own free will, and rest assure nobody will give u a dirty stare.
This is laughable. If nobody get paid .. nobody would want to do it. Then why do Kong still declare himself a volunteer? You see the irony in your statement?
Yeah right .. nobody will give you a dirty stare .. but they might stab you in their hearts. Peer pressure. -
So the point is .. if you're rich .. how should you spend your money?Originally posted by SilverPal:Is it neccessary to live in a million dollar apartment in Orchard and don Hugo Boss suits?
If you truly believe in God, will you sing His praises or sing pop songs if you were an accomplished singer?
If you truly believe in God .. then cannot sing pop songs? -
If you believe in God, shouldn't you share the good news with the world in every way possible? Via your already established world wide reputation? Or would you choose to take a less efficient route by hanging out at bus stops and MRT stations?Originally posted by Icemoon:So the point is .. if you're rich .. how should you spend your money?
If you truly believe in God .. then cannot sing pop songs?
On TV as an influential singer and pop icon, you can reach out to about >1000 ppl.
At a bus stop, can you reach out to at least 500 ppl?
If I was a religious pastor, and truly believe that this life is merely transient, that we are all living here while waiting to enter His Kingdom, that we are all God's children... Will money matter so much? What's wrong with a cheaper shirt? I'm talking about torn or pasar malam shirts... I'm talking about cheaper brands of jackets, cheaper brand of shirts.
What's wrong with a 5 room flat, just like most of your followers, who contribute regularly to your salary? Does it contribute to God's kingdom to live in a million dollar apartment in orchard? -
so if u live in a million dollar apartment u cannot be a good christian lar is itOriginally posted by SilverPal:If you believe in God, shouldn't you share the good news with the world in every way possible? Via your already established world wide reputation? Or would you choose to take a less efficient route by hanging out at bus stops and MRT stations?
On TV as an influential singer and pop icon, you can reach out to about >1000 ppl.
At a bus stop, can you reach out to at least 500 ppl?
If I was a religious pastor, and truly believe that this life is merely transient, that we are all living here while waiting to enter His Kingdom, that we are all God's children... Will money matter so much? What's wrong with a cheaper shirt? I'm talking about torn or pasar malam shirts... I'm talking about cheaper brands of jackets, cheaper brand of shirts.
What's wrong with a 5 room flat, just like most of your followers, who contribute regularly to your salary? Does it contribute to God's kingdom to live in a million dollar apartment in orchard?
-
1) I think firstly getting the pay and putting the effort by world's standard yea It is quite under paid. Maybe you're saying that a religious person should eat rice only and wear torn and tattered clothes? I think this is not really the case. Perhaps depend on which religion you're looking at. Ever question what the pope wears? I believe in effort for money. If he produce good results and productive he at least deserve a decent pay which in my point of view is underpaid. Furthermore he is volunteering now what more do you want to argue? If you think he should pay back every single cents... let's assume he be working free for the next 20-30 years... I think he already paid everything back with interest not to mention the mingle pay he was getting. There's nothing wrong with getting a decent pay for your effort can't expect him to eat air everyday right.
2) The 70 hours a week is a statistic done by surveyor and printed on magazines like Fortune. So no need to argue. Imagining running such a big church on a 9-5 basis is it possible?
3) I believe every organisation charitable or not should be run in a systematic way. The corporate way is a good and proven method. Sticking to the old ways you'll never grow the church this big. Anyway which big organisation don't run in a corporate manner? The only big organisation that runs in a small chinese business model will only face outdate and corruption. Probably like NKF which lacks transparency. -
And personally whether you give tithe it has no relationship to you going to heaven. If you are a christian you should understand that the criteria for having your salvation. Tithing is only for a open heaven... which was a law during the ancient time by the Judasim. Judasim still tithe... I'm sure the church don't teach other wise.
-
Can people become rich by being pastors?
A more straightforward way of asking....
Did Kong become rich through establishing CHC? -
Alright now you see, I am a Christian. So what i post may sound bias. According to the previous post and replies, I have to say, there is nothing wrong with living in a multi-million dollar house wearing hugo and stuffs. 8K per month for a Mega-Church like that is definitely not out of the world. Rev.Kong IS rich not because of church, its because he is rich even before that and of course, due to the reason that his wife is a chart-topping singer in the states and uk. What i am trying to mean is, he set up the church for a good reason, and let the members of the church help with the maintaining is definitely not over the border. He used to draw salary from the church, yes thats true, so what is wrong with being a volunteer with decades of years to come? Imagine this, you are rich, and now because if your better half, you are even richer, so what is wrong with buying houses which you love and brands which you like? Its not as though he used our money. Would you say for past decades he had not been contributing?
-
last time Jesus' apostles got draw big salary or not? just curious.