If Liu Bei won the war instead of Cao Cao...
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Originally posted by d3sT1nY:if liu bei won.. lin jun jie new song will be 'liu bei'.. nt 'cao cao'.. lolz.. =X
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What if Lu Bu was never mesmerised by Diao Chan?Than whole war also no need to fight liao.
Actually how Zhao Yun survived with a baby in his arms against "thousands of warriors is all Cao Cao's fault.... cos he wanted Zhao Yun alive..... he saw Zhao Yun was a brave n capable general so he ask his general dun kill him.... end up he lost quite a few capable generals as well.
N Liu Bei is an idi0t b4 he died.... he was jealous of Ma Chao n told Zhuge Liang not to use him.... biang a...end up Ma Chao used onli to guard some insignificant post....wasted a talent there....
Actually Cao Cao was a great conquerer...e onli thing he lack was Liu Bei's popularity.Anyway,ROTK cannot be truly believed one lah.... one thing is that history is always dictated by those who win e war.... those who record history r at times biased n leave out certain info.... -
Lu Bu not mesmerised so? i dun tink Dong Zhao is tt powerful to be able to handle another coalition of troops against him.Originally posted by harryryan:What if Lu Bu was never mesmerised by Diao Chan?Than whole war also no need to fight liao.
Actually how Zhao Yun survived with a baby in his arms against "thousands of warriors is all Cao Cao's fault.... cos he wanted Zhao Yun alive..... he saw Zhao Yun was a brave n capable general so he ask his general dun kill him.... end up he lost quite a few capable generals as well.
N Liu Bei is an idi0t b4 he died.... he was jealous of Ma Chao n told Zhuge Liang not to use him.... biang a...end up Ma Chao used onli to guard some insignificant post....wasted a talent there....
Actually Cao Cao was a great conquerer...e onli thing he lack was Liu Bei's popularity.Anyway,ROTK cannot be truly believed one lah.... one thing is that history is always dictated by those who win e war.... those who record history r at times biased n leave out certain info.... 
Cao Cao didnt really lost capable generals, they were jus unknowns
.. if they were tt capable they would not hav been killed 
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i dun tink Liu Bei told Kong Ming not to use Ma Chao.. if he was jealous of Ma Chao he would not have included Ma Chao amongst the Five Tiger Generals
..
I have to agree Cao Cao was a great conquerer
.. he had wits and leadership.. but was jus too cruel and cunning to be a popular character of ROTK.. 
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not talking about Dong Zhou.... but more like if Lu Bu did not betray his masters so many times n Dong Zhou's troops in his hometown never throw Lu Bu out but aid him instead... there might not be a 3 kingdom situation....Originally posted by Qing^.^:Lu Bu not mesmerised so? i dun tink Dong Zhao is tt powerful to be able to handle another coalition of troops against him.
Cao Cao didnt really lost capable generals, they were jus unknowns .. if they were tt capable they would not hav been killed ..
i dun tink Liu Bei told Kong Ming not to use Ma Chao.. if he was jealous of Ma Chao he would not have included Ma Chao amongst the Five Tiger Generals ..
I have to agree Cao Cao was a great conquerer .. he had wits and leadership.. but was jus too cruel and cunning to be a popular character of ROTK..
but still it is cao cao's fault...he could have killed Zhao yun when he got the chance but he wanted him for himself..so in e end lose alot of his own generals.n Zhao yun is always guarding e rear one lor...when retreating if he not around Liu Bei dunno die how many times already....
N Ma Chao situation is real.... how else do u explain him tio stuck guarding some ulu post.5 tiger generals was onli for a short period...after that he is just like a guard dog to Liu Bei.n e thing about Cao Cao being cruel might not be true at all...cos history favours e victor....if Cao Cao had united China b4 his death..all e history books will change n proclaim him as e best ever. -
Even if Dong Zhuo and Lu Bu had no conflict the coalition tt was formed at Hu Lao Gate would be formed again to over-throw Dong Zhuo.. rmb tt Dong Zhuo was every's main target at tt time.. so it would be 3 kingdom again..Originally posted by harryryan:not talking about Dong Zhou.... but more like if Lu Bu did not betray his masters so many times n Dong Zhou's troops in his hometown never throw Lu Bu out but aid him instead... there might not be a 3 kingdom situation....
but still it is cao cao's fault...he could have killed Zhao yun when he got the chance but he wanted him for himself..so in e end lose alot of his own generals.n Zhao yun is always guarding e rear one lor...when retreating if he not around Liu Bei dunno die how many times already....
N Ma Chao situation is real.... how else do u explain him tio stuck guarding some ulu post.5 tiger generals was onli for a short period...after that he is just like a guard dog to Liu Bei.n e thing about Cao Cao being cruel might not be true at all...cos history favours e victor....if Cao Cao had united China b4 his death..all e history books will change n proclaim him as e best ever.
Even if Cao Cao didnt issue the order of capturing Zhao Yun alive he might not be able to kill him, considering Zhao Yun's might and ability..
Zhao Yun guard rear no wrong ma.. when retreating u would wan ur best general to guard the back and prevent enemy from chasing u any further..
Being a guard at a impt post is also very impt.. if u were Cao Cao and u saw Ma Chao guarding the post would u dare attack the city?.. Liu Bei had no reason to be jealous of Ma Chao.. and furthermore he admired Ma Chao's loyalty and courage..
Cao Cao was cruel.. tt was true.. nth biased bout tt.. once he was put up in a fren's home after being chased by Dong Zhuo for attempting to kill him.. but instead of being grateful he killed the entire family of his fren and in the end even killed the guy accompanying him.. -
ask cao cao...Originally posted by darknessfall:why suddenly so many threads on Romance of Three Kingdoms?? Can anyone tell me? -
Originally posted by Qing^.^:Lu Bu not mesmerised so? i dun tink Dong Zhao is tt powerful to be able to handle another coalition of troops against him.
Cao Cao didnt really lost capable generals, they were jus unknowns .. if they were tt capable they would not hav been killed ..
i dun tink Liu Bei told Kong Ming not to use Ma Chao.. if he was jealous of Ma Chao he would not have included Ma Chao amongst the Five Tiger Generals ..
I have to agree Cao Cao was a great conquerer .. he had wits and leadership.. but was jus too cruel and cunning to be a popular character of ROTK.. -
wah so cruel...Originally posted by Qing^.^:Even if Dong Zhuo and Lu Bu had no conflict the coalition tt was formed at Hu Lao Gate would be formed again to over-throw Dong Zhuo.. rmb tt Dong Zhuo was every's main target at tt time.. so it would be 3 kingdom again..
Even if Cao Cao didnt issue the order of capturing Zhao Yun alive he might not be able to kill him, considering Zhao Yun's might and ability..
Zhao Yun guard rear no wrong ma.. when retreating u would wan ur best general to guard the back and prevent enemy from chasing u any further..
Being a guard at a impt post is also very impt.. if u were Cao Cao and u saw Ma Chao guarding the post would u dare attack the city?.. Liu Bei had no reason to be jealous of Ma Chao.. and furthermore he admired Ma Chao's loyalty and courage..
Cao Cao was cruel.. tt was true.. nth biased bout tt.. once he was put up in a fren's home after being chased by Dong Zhuo for attempting to kill him.. but instead of being grateful he killed the entire family of his fren and in the end even killed the guy accompanying him.. -
Correction. It was not Ma Chao that lui bei told not to use. but the other theroy general Ma Su who was send to guard the return route. he was advised to stay away from the hill top but to guard the main route. in order to proof himself, he refused to listen to zhuge liang.Originally posted by harryryan:.
N Liu Bei is an idi0t b4 he died.... he was jealous of Ma Chao n told Zhuge Liang not to use him.... biang a...end up Ma Chao used onli to guard some insignificant post....wasted a talent there....
Wei Yan was the one who later rebel after zhuge liang death. -
erm.. maybe i shld clarify your point here.Originally posted by Qing^.^:Zhuge Liang dun giv chances .. rmb Guan Yu nearly got executed cos he let Cao Cao go?
I tink he wans to SHA YI JIN BAI: rough translation- kill one warn others
Zhuge Liang purposly put Guan Yu at the Cao Cao last retreat point, and he already knew Guan Yu will let Cao Cao go. Becos, Cao Cao was relatively good to Guan Yu, remember the Guo Wu Guan, Zhan Liu Jiang incident?
Zhuge Liang wanted Cao Cao to go back to Central Plains becos he was the only one capable to rule the central plains. If Cao Cao is killed, Central Plain will be in chaos, and the Shu Army at that time was still not powerful enough to conquer it, will only benefit the Wu.. -
All these doesn't matter.
Because romance of 3 kingdom is fictionalised. -
Zhuge liang could forsee that if Caox2 died, then central plain will be in chaos. and lui bei army wasn't ready to take on the task to unite the kingdom. giving guan yu the chance to repay the kindness toward guan yu thus freeing the indebtness.Originally posted by goaler:erm.. maybe i shld clarify your point here.
Zhuge Liang purposly put Guan Yu at the Cao Cao last retreat point, and he already knew Guan Yu will let Cao Cao go. Becos, Cao Cao was relatively good to Guan Yu, remember the Guo Wu Guan, Zhan Liu Jiang incident?
Zhuge Liang wanted Cao Cao to go back to Central Plains becos he was the only one capable to rule the central plains. If Cao Cao is killed, Central Plain will be in chaos, and the Shu Army at that time was still not powerful enough to conquer it, will only benefit the Wu.. -
half half lah..Originally posted by Ponders:All these doesn't matter.
Because romance of 3 kingdom is fictionalised.
it is not totally fictionalised..
i think the pple really existed... but just some parts are too dramatic..
eg: Zhuge Liang is almost like God in the story.. which is too exaggerated. -
the story focus too much on Liu Bei and Zhuge Liang(afterall "San Guo Zhi" was written by Chen Shou(Shu History Officer, source ROTK9), then Luo Guan Zong edited it). But there is truth to it.
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Liu Bei said not to use Ma Su due to some reasons, Ma Chao protected Shu when ZGL moved to suppress the southern rebellion
ZGL with Jiang Wei and Ma Dai killed Wei Yan just as he rebelled
The war could have been won IF Zhao Yun's sons were competent and Ma Chao didn't die early..
And also Zhuge Zhan's ignorant of the court affairs, If he had intervene.. He could have saved Shu after certain destruction
Zhao Yun served as a guardian to Liu Chan/Shan but he didn't want to learn martial arts -
He was jealous of people better than himself. Remember Yang Xiu?Originally posted by Qing^.^:I have to agree Cao Cao was a great conquerer .. he had wits and leadership.. but was jus too cruel and cunning to be a popular character of ROTK.. -
Not totally true.Originally posted by abao:the story focus too much on Liu Bei and Zhuge Liang(afterall "San Guo Zhi" was written by Chen Shou(Shu History Officer, source ROTK9), then Luo Guan Zong edited it). But there is truth to it.
In San Guo Zhi, Liu Bei and Zhuge Liang occupied a chapter each and their chapters are not really longer than other single-character chapters.
Furthermore, even though Chen Shou was from Shu, there were already existing histories about Wei and Wu. Chen Shou basically compiled them but wrote the Shu history from scratch - http://211.154.103.88/25-history-record/sanguo/sanguo.htm -
after all. liubei is overrated when cao cao is underrated.
btw pang tong leh? his very clever also leh. but then he died early =( -
Actually not much difference!Unless someone can really watch over liu bei's successor liu shan.Or find more talents as shu kingdom has the least talents among the three kingdoms.After zhu ge liang,pang tong and the famous five generals;namely: guan yu,zhang fei,zhao yun,huang zhong and wei yan died.
Shu kingdom went to decline as zhu ge liang is spending too much time on war expedition and that causes liu shan to listen to eunchs and enjoy life too easily.So even if liu bei wins the war,the kingdon has not enough talents to sustain glory for long. -
the story was sensationalized...
but there are some truth in it... -
Wei Yan is not amongst the five generalsOriginally posted by xxthunder:Actually not much difference!Unless someone can really watch over liu bei's successor liu shan.Or find more talents as shu kingdom has the least talents among the three kingdoms.After zhu ge liang,pang tong and the famous five generals;namely: guan yu,zhang fei,zhao yun,huang zhong and wei yan died.
Shu kingdom went to decline as zhu ge liang is spending too much time on war expedition and that causes liu shan to listen to eunchs and enjoy life too easily.So even if liu bei wins the war,the kingdon has not enough talents to sustain glory for long. Ma Chao is the one -
Ya tt poor guy.. try to be too clever.. guess and knew Cao Cao's every move and invited his own deathOriginally posted by Icemoon:He was jealous of people better than himself. Remember Yang Xiu? -
But Wei Yan continued the line of Five Tiger generals of liu bei. ayaa..if not becos of tt eunuch and liu chan..Shu could have won n also beat the hell out of the simas and deng aiOriginally posted by Qing^.^:Wei Yan is not amongst the five generals Ma Chao is the one -
there are alot of strategies, technique and wisdom to be learnt from the story.Originally posted by GHoST_18:the story was sensationalized...
but there are some truth in it...
such as
kong chen ji - empty city strategy
mei ren ji - diao chan
. alot of wisdom, leadership and guts are required to succeed. -
All becos of Wu la.. go attack Shu's east for wat.. killed Guan Yu and cre8 the farcas tt allow Cao Cao to reap the rewards..Originally posted by felirox:But Wei Yan continued the line of Five Tiger generals of liu bei. ayaa..if not becos of tt eunuch and liu chan..Shu could have won n also beat the hell out of the simas and deng ai