Who is the creator of the universe?
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Come to think of it, if numbers win then Hindus win hands downOriginally posted by casino_king:Ah...... Buddha? Brahma? (Hindu) Allah? Ganesha? (Hindu) Jesus? (Christian) Jehovah? (Jewish) Shiva? (Hindu)
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Not funnyOriginally posted by norey:WElcome in for now..please state your case in more details..than just saying
an ultra-huge borderless universe with intelligent lives can exist without any divine intervention
so? What is this borderless thign/entity/or waht? U call? an expanse? Universe? like the universities?
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Please go and find out more about Buddhist beliefs first.Originally posted by norey:or just another system like UltraMan or
Superfast Computer hidden in the Mountains of XXXCC1234567890 by China?
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Creators.Originally posted by casino_king:I am curious; non belief in what? The existence of the universe? 
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Plural with an "s" behind?Originally posted by Nelstar:Creators.
Wow you are good.
The Hindus as you know, are pantheistic.
The Bible surprisingly said: "Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth,” (Gen. 1:26, NASB).
See? Let "Us" in "Our" image? The Christians of course rationalise it away as "Thrinity." Ah but for the non Christians...
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supernatural and omnipotent are 2 diff things lah dudeOriginally posted by casino_king:ah... but Buddhism does stop there.... Buddhism claims that supernatural beings that come and go exists side by side with us. Everyone in this world would define the Buddhists supernatural beings as Gods except the Buddhists so how? -
http://www.metahistory.org/MadnessEgo.php
Surprizing as it may seem, there do exist some indications of what may be called a Buddhist creation myth, a Buddhist counterpart to Genesis, if you will. The textual sources are various, and tend to be largely overlooked in the current atmosphere of Buddhist studies. What is most certainly a pre-Buddhist account of world-creation can be found in Pali sources such as the Dighanikaya, the Anuguttaranikaya, and the Vishuddhimagga, "The Path of Perfection." Works in the Pali language belong to an elite subcategory of modern Buddhist studies, so it is not surprizing if these materials have been overlooked. But at least two Sanskrit texts, the Abhidharmakosha and the Shikshasamuccaya also contain elements of the Buddhist Genesis. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
The god of Israel, Yahweh, has a wife, the goddess Asherah. The "us" in Genesis refers to them.
Plural with an "s" behind?
Wow you are good.
The Hindus as you know, are pantheistic.
The Bible surprisingly said: [b]"Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth,” (Gen. 1:26, NASB).
See? Let "Us" in "Our" image? The Christians of course rationalise it away as "Thrinity." Ah but for the non Christians... [/b] -
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/
Question: What is one reason Jews do not accept the Christian belief that Jesus is the incarnation of God?
Answer: Christians claim that in the birth of Jesus there occurred the miracle of the incarnation of God in the form of a human being. To say that God became truly a human being invites a number of questions. Let us ask the following about the alleged truly man- truly god Jesus. What happened to his foreskin after his circumcision (Luke 2:21)? Did it ascend to heaven, or did it decompose as with any human piece of flesh? During his lifetime what happened to his hair, nails, and blood shed from wounds? Did the cells of his body die as in ordinary human beings? If his body did not function in a truly human way, he could not be truly human as well as truly God. Yet, if his body functioned exactly in a human way, this would nullify any claim to divinity. It would be impossible for any part of God, even if incarnate, to decompose in any way and still be considered God. By definition, not mystery, the everlasting, one God, in whole or in part, does not die, disintegrate, or decompose: "For I the Lord do not change" (Malachi 3:6). Did Jesus' flesh dwell in safety after his death? 1 Peter 3:18 states Jesus was "put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit." 1 Corinthians 15:44-45 claims Jesus was "raised a spiritual body," that is, he "became a life-giving spirit." No mention of the survival of the flesh is alluded to. In Acts 2:31, it is claimed Peter stated that following the alleged resurrection Jesus' body did not see decay. Paul is alleged to have also made this claim (Acts 13:34-37). However, unless Jesus' body never underwent "decay" during his lifetime he could not be God, but if it did not undergo "decay" then he was not truly human. -
Are you referring to Christianity or Judaism? Where is your source? Any reference and links?Originally posted by OldMan:The god of Israel, Yahweh, has a wife, the goddess Asherah. The "us" in Genesis refers to them. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
I can't be bothered whether there was 1,2 or a dozen you believed in.
Plural with an "s" behind?
Wow you are good.
The Hindus as you know, are pantheistic.
The Bible surprisingly said: [b]"Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth,” (Gen. 1:26, NASB).
See? Let "Us" in "Our" image? The Christians of course rationalise it away as "Thrinity." Ah but for the non Christians... [/b]
The plural form was just trying to be polite to all religions. -
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/general-tactics.html
A GUIDE TO MISSIONARY TACTICS
This guide is intended to teach you about the tactics used by missionary groups and cults.
The tactics of missionaries and missionary groups may vary, but there are some basic guidelines to keep in mind that will be helpful in dealing with them.
CAMOUFLAGE
Some missionaries attempt to develop a rapport with their subject without divulging their own religious affiliation. If you are not sure about the religious identity of the stranger who begins talking to you about religion, ask him directly if he is a believer in Jesus. Be suspicious of an indirect answer.
Don't be deceived by any outer signs of Jewishness, such as a "Chai" necklace or a Star of David. They are worn to make Jews feel more comfortable by making the speaker seem less "Christian". For the same reason, missionaries are coached by their superiors to avoid using words such as "Christ" or "saved" or "baptize" when speaking to Jews, in order not to arouse suspicion.
ASSUMING SUPERIORITY
When talking to a Jewish person about religion, a missionary may attempt to elicit as many "I don't know" responses as possible, in order to establish his superiority in matters of religion. Don't allow yourself to be intimidated!
Remember, the missionary has studied Jewish beliefs for the sole purpose of leading Jews to Christianity. Keep in mind that he is not speaking to you in order to exchange ideas, but rather to lead you away from your religion. If you want to learn more about the Jewish Bible, do so from someone who doesn't have hidden motives. Therefore, feel free to simply end the conversation and walk away.
However, some of you may want to listen to their arguments and then learn the Jewish response, in order to be better prepared for future encounters. The following pointers should give you a basic idea of what to look for.
DECEPTION
The missionary may tell you that he (or a Christian friend or acquaintance) was once an Orthodox Jew, or that he had a solid Jewish education, a traditional Jewish family life, etc. This is almost always a lie, so don't let him fool you. The hidden message that he is attempting to convey is that he came to believe in Jesus after knowing and overcoming all of the Jewish objections, and therefore, why should you bother to check it out?
He may drop certain Yiddish phrases or talk about the details of his "traditional" Jewish upbringing, in order to lend more credence to his story. In fact, his "memory" is often the result of careful coaching.
Usually, all that is necessary to expose this type of hoax is to ask him about various small details of Jewish life that any observant Jewish child would know, and see how he responds. In almost all cases, he will begin to hedge about the extent of his "background" and "Jewish knowledge". Unfortunately, most Jews are themselves not knowledgeable enough to be able to expose this type of deception.
In the same vein, the missionary might tell you that he knows the Jewish objections to his arguments, and will then proceed to show how such objectives are ill-founded. Don't expect to hear the real Jewish response from such a source.
LOVING US TO DEATH
Don't be taken in by the "good cop - bad cop" routine. This routine involves a "bad cop" who threatens the subject, and a "good cop" who protects him from the "bad cop". The subject is so grateful to the "good cop", and so worried about losing the good-will of his protector, that he invariably shows his appreciation by telling the "good cop" what he wants to hear. In similar fashion, the "good" Christian talks about how much he loves Jews, Israel, bagels and lox, etc., while denouncing the "bad" Christians who hate and persecute Jews. A Jew with any knowledge of Christian anti-Semitism will feel grateful to the "good cop", and may automatically judge him to be a friend and reliable ally. Watch out for hidden motives behind such "friendship".
COVER-UP
At the outset, the missionary will talk about his belief that Jesus is the messiah. Many Jews don't find out until later, often after they have joined a Hebrew-Christian group, that their fundamental belief is that Jesus is G-D. Any talk about "the messiah" or "son of G-D" is merely a cover for that belief, basic to both fundamentalist Christianity and Hebrew-Christians. However, since such a concept is repugnant to most Jews, this most basic belief of Christianity is glossed over as much as possible when missionaries talk to Jews.
THE NUMBERS RACKET
Don't be impressed by the claim that Christians have 50, or 100, or 300 "proofs from the Jewish Bible" that they are correct in their claims about Jesus. As proof after proof is shown to be meaningless, the missionary will hide behind his numbers, as if to say: "Well, we have so many more proofs, what's the difference if you can disprove some of them". He will attempt to "split the difference" with you: "Well, even if half our proofs prove nothing, we still have another 25 or 50, or 150". Remember, all of their proofs can be shown to be untenable. Keep in mind that a faulty point is not worth 50% of a good point, or 25%, or 10%. It is worthless. The simple mathematics are: 50 x 0 = 0, 100 x 0 = 0, 300 x 0 = 0.
CIRCULAR REASONING
Very often, the reasoning used by Christian missionaries is circular. That is, the "proof" only points to Jesus if you believe in him in the first place, and therefore is no proof at all.
Let us take as an example the words of Isaiah 11:2; "And the spirit of the L-rd will rest upon him (the messiah), the spirit of wisdom and understanding...". This verse refers to the messiah, but it does not identify him. The followers of Jesus chose to attribute this verse to him, and it subsequently became one of the "proof-texts" to support the claims of Christianity.
One way to test such verses is as follows: Pick a figure that neither you nor the missionary believes to be the messiah. (It can be George Washington, Reverend Moon, or your great- grandfather.) Then see if the "messianic prophecy" would point to the figure in the eyes of anyone who believed him to be the messiah. If it can be used that way, the verse obviously proves nothing.
MISTRANSLATION
Be aware of the problem of mistranslation. A person who is not familiar with Hebrew (or with the Hebrew text of the Bible) can be lead to accept a mistranslation of the Bible which puts a Christian "twist" on a verse that never had such a meaning in the original. If you can't check it out yourself, talk to a reliable person who can. Remember, it is no coincidence that the Jews of past generations, who were much better versed in the original Hebrew Bible, never had any serious problems refuting Christian missionary arguments.
QUOTING OUT OF CONTEXT
Often a verse will be quoted to you that has been taken entirely out of context. When the entire chapter that contains that verse is read, it becomes clear that: 1) that the verse is not a messianic prophecy, and/or 2) the prophecy could not possibly refer to Jesus.
USE THE PROPER RESOURCES!
Most rabbis spend their time studying the positive aspects of Judaism to teach to their congregants, and therefore may not be familiar with the "curve-ball" approach of missionaries. If you need advice concerning a problem of this sort, get in touch with people who are familiar with the tactics being used and who know how to deal with them. -
Even I can refute this one easily. The Christians believed JesusOriginally posted by OldMan:[url]http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/
quote:
Question: What is one reason Jews do not accept the Christian belief that Jesus is the incarnation of God?
Answer: Christians claim that in the birth of Jesus there occurred the miracle of the incarnation of God in the form of a human being. To say that God became truly a human being invites a number of questions. Let us ask the following about the alleged truly man- truly god Jesus. What happened to his foreskin after his circumcision (Luke 2:21)? Did it ascend to heaven, or did it decompose as with any human piece of flesh?
was completely reincarnated as a man... completely as a man. So all that "what happened to his body?" nonsense just strenghten the Christian beliefs. -
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/general_messiah-criteria02.html
Messiah : The Criteria
Judge for yourself:
Did Jesus fulfill ALL these criteria?
The Jewish tradition of "The Messiah" has its foundation in numerous biblical references, and understands "The Messiah" to be a human being - without any overtone of deity or divinity - who will bring about certain changes in the world and fulfill certain criteria before he can be acknowledged as "The Messiah".
First of all, he must be Jewish - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15)
He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10)
To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.
He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)
The genealogy of the New Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether!
He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)
Are all Jews living in Israel? Have all Jews EVER lived in Israel since the time of Jesus?
He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem - "...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them.." (Ezekiel 37:26 - 27)
At last check, there is NO Temple in Jerusalem. And worse, it was shortly after Jesus died that the Temple was DESTROYED! Just the opposite of this prophecy!
He will rule at a time of world-wide peace - "...they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." (Micah 4:3)askyourself...
Have you seen a newspaper lately? Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus?
He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d's commandments - "My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes." (Ezekiel 37:24)
The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy.
He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d - "And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd" (Isaiah 66:23)
There are still millions, if not billions of people who practice Hinduism, Buddhism, Satanism and many other forms of pagan and polythesitic religions. It is clear that we have not yet seen this period of human history unfold.
All of these criteria are best stated in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28:
And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children's children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore.
If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah." A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.
Certainly NOT Jesus. -
Even I can refute this one easily. It is a question of perspectives. One man's meat is another's man's poison.Originally posted by OldMan:[url]http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/general-tactics.html
quote:
A GUIDE TO MISSIONARY TACTICS
CAMOUFLAGE
ASSUMING SUPERIORITY
DECEPTION
LOVING US TO DEATH
COVER-UP
THE NUMBERS RACKET
CIRCULAR REASONING
MISTRANSLATION
QUOTING OUT OF CONTEXT
USE THE PROPER RESOURCES!
Sure, there are rogue missionaries. If you like I can tell you about rogue Buddhist monks. Whatever for? Doesn't mean anything.
I have no doubt that most of the missionaries are doing it with honorable intentions.
Mother Teresa for example. She was from a wealthy family but lived with the Calcutta poorests. I am sure you have many bad things to say about her also, but like I said, what's the point? -
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New challengers in the arena after the battle between GR and SS..
Now OM vs CK. -
to the jews, christianity is but a cultOriginally posted by casino_king:Even I can refute this one easily. It is a question of perspectives. One man's meat is another's man's poison.
Sure, there are rogue missionaries. If you like I can tell you about rogue Buddhist monks. Whatever for? Doesn't mean anything.
I have no doubt that most of the missionaries are doing it with honorable intentions.
Mother Teresa for example. She was from a wealthy family but lived with the Calcutta poorests. I am sure you have many bad things to say about her also, but like I said, what's the point?
sure, there are rogue monks, priests, pastors, missionaries everywhere. but i do not share your optimism that most are honourable, in fact i feel the opposite. -
i mean, if you want to evangelise, do it openly and not hide behind a sham. i always welcome a friendly debateOriginally posted by Nelstar:New challengers in the arena after the battle between GR and SS..
Now OM vs CK. -
Even I can refute this nonsense easily. If the Christians believe exactly what Jews believe, then they will not be called Christians, will they? They will be called Jews?Originally posted by OldMan:[url]http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/general_messiah-criteria02.html
quote:
Messiah : The Criteria
Judge for yourself:
Did Jesus fulfill ALL these criteria?
Certainly NOT Jesus.
What you quoted is not for Buddhists like you or have you converted to Judaism? -
what makes you think that i'm a buddhist?Originally posted by casino_king:Even I can refute this nonsense easily. If the Christians believe exactly what Jews believe, then they will not be called Christians, will they? They will be called Jews?
What you quoted is not for Buddhists like you or have you converted to Judaism?
in that case, christians have to remove the old testament from their bible -
You are an idiot.Originally posted by Nelstar:New challengers in the arena after the battle between GR and SS..
Now OM vs CK. -
I only poking fun nia.. It's just perspective vs perspective... but at least both of you are good enough in that aspect not to offend another's belief in that debate. So far no offensive and unnecessary remark.Originally posted by OldMan:i mean, if you want to evangelise, do it openly and not hide behind a sham. i always welcome a friendly debate
*takes twig to poke fun at ant nest instead*
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Why? Don't Buddhist refer to Hindu scriptures and traditions as well?Originally posted by OldMan:what makes you think that i'm a buddhist?
in that case, christians have to remove the old testament from their bible You are not a Buddhist? 
I am so happy for the Buddhists. -
Bleh, I'm just fooling around. It took you so long to figure.Originally posted by casino_king:You are an idiot.