Why NS is reduntant
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Izzit? I see all my post ORD friends very mature leh. Maybe I'm just lucky lor. heheeOriginally posted by HENG@:Im sorry but I cannot agree in good conscience. In my opinion, the childish ones are still the majority. Childish, AND socially inept.
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Most guys who go NS end up being in the former group. Like I said, I sincerely doubt it makes men out of boys. More like, it makes zombies out of boys.Originally posted by DriftingGuy:I don't think it will necessarily makes one a better person. It depends on how an individual handles it.
You could be pretty bitter about it, adopt a heck care attitude and just avoid all responsibilities, arrows, duties etc. Generally you become invisible until the day you ORD aka "Serve and f*** off". Although there is a high chance you might sabo your friends since they might take the flake and become a general ass while in there.
Or you could see it in a different light. Instead of letting it get to you, you could use it as a motivating factor to do well in the future and avoid getting a job in the government sector. Or if you genuinely want to serve the country, work towards getting into a position where you make a change.
I was in the former group and after I orded I wished I was the latter.
if u want to make a change, u would have had a sort of awareness of the need for change even b4 NS. I should know, I've had that awareness since 14. Why else do u think im working towards being in a position to influence change? -
maybe u define mature differently from me also.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Izzit? I see all my post ORD friends very mature leh. Maybe I'm just lucky lor. hehee -
Not true lah... it gives u a new perspective... like... u define "urgent" and "important" differently cos u realise it all depends on which stage u're going to "wayang" for...Originally posted by HENG@:Most guys who go NS end up being in the former group. Like I said, I sincerely doubt it makes men out of boys. More like, it makes zombies out of boys.
if u want to make a change, u would have had a sort of awareness of the need for change even b4 NS. I should know, I've had that awareness since 14. Why else do u think im working towards being in a position to influence change?
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Haiya thats nothing. What about the white horses who have it easy and end up with a cushy admin officer post? Still a glorified clerk, but costing the nation instead of costing their parents. Then they also go and get excuse this and that anyway.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Speaking about rich spoilt kids, in this generation we have boys who fear NS so much that they get their parents to pay specialists, doctors, hospitals for all kinds of medical checkup, hoping to get the doc to write something to help the boy downgrade to doing clerical duties or store.
I have personally encountered a few handful of them. Ya, rich kids! They are so lucky, but I won't say that for their parents. Each of them costs the parents a few thousand dollars consulting Neurologists, ENT, Dermatologists, Endocrinology, Gastroenterology... any specialists you can think of, they have already consulted. I wonder whether they got see gynae or not since they are such a sissy. LOL
Of course u cannot say that everyone who had to see a specialist is keng one. Someone I know never had skin problems b4 NS. Come out from BMT the skin like rotting like that, now that person got permanent skin problems liao. -
I guess it is very much important for the guys to cultivate the right thinking and attitude before going in. Their parents should also help them with that.Originally posted by DriftingGuy:I don't think it will necessarily makes one a better person. It depends on how an individual handles it.
You could be pretty bitter about it, adopt a heck care attitude and just avoid all responsibilities, arrows, duties etc. Generally you become invisible until the day you ORD aka "Serve and f*** off". Although there is a high chance you might sabo your friends since they might take the flake and become a general ass while in there.
Or you could see it in a different light. Instead of letting it get to you, you could use it as a motivating factor to do well in the future and avoid getting a job in the government sector. Or if you genuinely want to serve the country, work towards getting into a position where you make a change.
I was in the former group and after I orded I wished I was the latter.
I know many guys cry in the camp, some in the bathroom, some in the bed. But I also have guy friends who told me that they have much fun inside and enjoy the company of their campmates. Every reservist is a time for them to get together and catch up.
The bad thing going on is many boys are told the horror stories about NS. Before they are even enlisted, they already have cold feet and find ways to get it deferred. A few guy friends tried to enrol in courses to do ITE, A Level or Diploma just to siam.
Parents really play a big and important role for these boys. Some parents are smart enough to encourage the kid to take up fitness training, sign up for uniform group in Sec School CCA etc to well prepare them for the NS's tough training. -
if u call the ability to differentiate definations due to the need for wayang, I REALLY doubt how mature NS makes boysOriginally posted by CX:Not true lah... it gives u a new perspective... like... u define "urgent" and "important" differently cos u realise it all depends on which stage u're going to "wayang" for... -
Well personally i think it a waste of time for me,i will have finish my degree now and working instead of studying because of serving army.The only thing i gain after finishing my NS is that i made alot of friends.
As for the country,even though army is very slack now but i still think a country need to have it,to wayang only mah.
Ns change boys to men?
Not necessary it depend on individuals,i think guys will only become my mature
when they are planning to marry and start their own family. -
ya lah... my example is only those who keng one, not including those genuine case. The genuine case only need to see 1 doc, can already since they already have diagnosed the problem before.Originally posted by HENG@:Haiya thats nothing. What about the white horses who have it easy and end up with a cushy admin officer post? Still a glorified clerk, but costing the nation instead of costing their parents. Then they also go and get excuse this and that anyway.
Of course u cannot say that everyone who had to see a specialist is keng one. Someone I know never had skin problems b4 NS. Come out from BMT the skin like rotting like that, now that person got permanent skin problems liao.
But those keng one... I tell you, I dun mind spitting on them. Waste parents money to see 5 to 10 specialists. They are in perfect health actually and the doctors actually have a hard time detecting any small little fine problem. But of course they dun mind, cuz it's money making for them what.
One doctor, after dunno how many thorough checks, finally managed to find 1 hairline crack on my friend's skull. I dunno how badly a hairline crack going to affect any sort of training. But he looks perfectly healthy, never see him having to go for regular checkup or what. Can play, can go out.
Those who really really cannot find anything will go and enrol in ITE, A level and anything that can defer NS. One friend of mine actually purposely repeated his A level like dunno how many times. -
Yeap, you get to make good friends while serving NS. Thats the best part about NS.Originally posted by Honeybunz:I guess it is very much important for the guys to cultivate the right thinking and attitude before going in. Their parents should also help them with that.
I know many guys cry in the camp, some in the bathroom, some in the bed. But I also have guy friends who told me that they have much fun inside and enjoy the company of their campmates. Every reservist is a time for them to get together and catch up.
The bad thing going on is many boys are told the horror stories about NS. Before they are even enlisted, they already have cold feet and find ways to get it deferred. A few guy friends tried to enrol in courses to do ITE, A Level or Diploma just to siam.
Parents really play a big and important role for these boys. Some parents are smart enough to encourage the kid to take up fitness training, sign up for uniform group in Sec School CCA etc to well prepare them for the NS's tough training.
Hmm... if you defer, ultimately you still have to serve when you are back. Unless you emigrate and all that.
If I were the parent, I won't bother enrolling my kids into uniform groups or take on fitness training. BMT can do in 3 months what outside training can achieve in 2 years. I would rather find a way to teach them good attitude. -
Bravo!Originally posted by DriftingGuy:Yeap, you get to make good friends while serving NS. Thats the best part about NS.
Hmm... if you defer, ultimately you still have to serve when you are back. Unless you emigrate and all that.
If I were the parent, I won't bother enrolling my kids into uniform groups or take on fitness training. BMT can do in 3 months what outside training can achieve in 2 years. I would rather find a way to teach them good attitude.
I found somebody likeminded
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1 doctor enuf? u sure, what about people who DO have a few medical problems?Originally posted by Honeybunz:ya lah... my example is only those who keng one, not including those genuine case. The genuine case only need to see 1 doc, can already since they already have diagnosed the problem before.
But those keng one... I tell you, I dun mind spitting on them. Waste parents money to see 5 to 10 specialists. They are in perfect health actually and the doctors actually have a hard time detecting any small little fine problem. But of course they dun mind, cuz it's money making for them what.
One doctor, after dunno how many thorough checks, finally managed to find 1 hairline crack on my friend's skull. I dunno how badly a hairline crack going to affect any sort of training. But he looks perfectly healthy, never see him having to go for regular checkup or what. Can play, can go out.
Those who really really cannot find anything will go and enrol in ITE, A level and anything that can defer NS. One friend of mine actually purposely repeated his A level like dunno how many times.
and your friend, hairline crack is hairline crack. u mean just because he feels fine he has to run the risk of facing avoidable potential accidents that would worsen the crack?
As for defering, thats silly. Deferring does not allow u to escape it in the end. But if people want to defer to study, whats wrong with it? How do u know for sure they are studying to avoid NS? Do u know how hard it is to start studying again after a 2year+ break from it? maybe they just want to make sure they can make use of the momentum as long as possible. -
But the generally perception in there is that if you see specialists for a particular problem, you are trying to keng out of it. I seen quite a few cases of genuine and they do cloud the water for those who are really sick.Originally posted by HENG@:Haiya thats nothing. What about the white horses who have it easy and end up with a cushy admin officer post? Still a glorified clerk, but costing the nation instead of costing their parents. Then they also go and get excuse this and that anyway.
Of course u cannot say that everyone who had to see a specialist is keng one. Someone I know never had skin problems b4 NS. Come out from BMT the skin like rotting like that, now that person got permanent skin problems liao.
There was one instance when my friend in another camp was mistakenly identified as another infamous person in the same platoon who frequently takes MC to keng. My friend had a temperature of 39.2 degrees and yet the MO did not send him home as he was thinking of punishing him for "kenging" despite my friend trying to explain many times about the confusion.
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Seriously, i think a good doctor / MO will be able to realise who are trying to keng or who are genuine.The medicine given was completely useless too,i have to even use MY OWN MONEY to see the clinic doc after seeing the stupid MO to recover from my fever.Originally posted by DriftingGuy:But the generally perception in there is that if you see specialists for a particular problem, you are trying to keng out of it. I seen quite a few cases of genuine and they do cloud the water for those who are really sick.
There was one instance when my friend in another camp was mistakenly identified as another infamous person in the same platoon who frequently takes MC to keng. My friend had a temperature of 39.2 degrees and yet the MO did not send him home as he was thinking of punishing him for "kenging" despite my friend trying to explain many times about the confusion. -
Originally posted by HENG@:and your friend, hairline crack is hairline crack. u mean just because he feels fine he has to run the risk of facing avoidable potential accidents that would worsen the crack?
As for defering, thats silly. Deferring does not allow u to escape it in the end. But if people want to defer to study, whats wrong with it? How do u know for sure they are studying to avoid NS? Do u know how hard it is to start studying again after a 2year+ break from it? maybe they just want to make sure they can make use of the momentum as long as possible.1 doctor enuf? u sure, what about people who DO have a few medical problems?
That one will be another seperate case altogether which I will put under minority. If there is one person like that, I will feel damn sorry for him of course. But not that many this kind of case lah. And also, these ppl will already have their sickness diagnosed long before and seeing the doc is just to get the paper. This is different from seeing the doctor to diagnose new problem.
What I mean by seeing several doc is consulting them to diagnose new unheard of problems before enlistment. If the person is genuinely doing is for health sake, it is ok, cuz we never know what existing sickness we may have and not discovered. But if the person is really concerned about his health, why wait until enlistment? They should do it much earlier so that they can receive treatments.
But of course you may think what if the person only suspect he's ill just before enlistment. Then I will say how often do you find such coincident timing. I dun mean there isn't. But really there isn't many.As for defering, thats silly. Deferring does not allow u to escape it in the end. But if people want to defer to study, whats wrong with it? How do u know for sure they are studying to avoid NS? Do u know how hard it is to start studying again after a 2year+ break from it? maybe they just want to make sure they can make use of the momentum as long as possible
Well defering is a sure easy and effective way of delaying it and that's why it's one common method used unfortunately. But of course, my example doesn't apply to ppl who honestly enrol into JC/Poly after O level. I am referring to those dishonest ones who is not even keen to study.
Yes, defering is silly way to escape. And you are right, they cannot escape forever. But too bad these boys dun see it. They would rather escape for a while than not at all (self deception). -
[quote]Originally posted by DriftingGuy:
Yeap, you get to make good friends while serving NS. Thats the best part about NS.
Hmm... if you defer, ultimately you still have to serve when you are back. Unless you emigrate and all that.
If I were the parent, I won't bother enrolling my kids into uniform groups or take on fitness training. BMT can do in 3 months what outside training can achieve in 2 years. I would rather find a way to teach them good attitude.[/quote
If i am the parent i rather tell my son to spend my time to get better result rather than joining Uniform group leh.
Cause from what i experience last time,BMT really not xiong one loh
I heard from my younger brother now when u run 2.4km halfway can fall out one leh,somemore IPPT in tekong now no need to pass one.U just have to attend.
I think the mind power of one individual is more impt than it phsical being.
because as a soldier,u will not enjoy the freedom of a normal civlian,u have to do everything on your own,so if i am the parent i will train my child to be more independent,i think that is more impt. -
I really dunno how true is this or how many ppl having this problem.Originally posted by HENG@:Do u know how hard it is to start studying again after a 2year+ break from it? maybe they just want to make sure they can make use of the momentum as long as possible.
Maybe there are many and some are just lucky not to have this problem.
I grad from poly. Spent three years slogging in some american firm, before I decided that I need minimumly a degree to go to a managerial position in this firm (of course also subject to my performance). So I quit and used my saving to do a degree in USA.
Frankly, I don't remember having problem going back to student life. In fact, I studied better and managed my time and priorities well, lived a disciplined & organised life at the campus hostel. Maybe I should be thankful to the stress & heavy workloads I've been thru in the american firm. I got good GPA in the end (when I didn't perform this well during my poly days).
That is why I feel NS training can do great for guys instead of creating drawbacks. Drawbacks are more for those who already have the wrong mindset and attitude before enlistment.
Maybe I'm just a one off case. Or maybe I am just lucky. -
Hmm maybe i am stupid,i really don't get your point loh.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Well defering is a sure easy and effective way of delaying it and that's why it's one common method used unfortunately. But of course, my example doesn't apply to ppl who honestly enrol into JC/Poly after O level. I am referring to those dishonest ones who is not even keen to study.
Yes, defering is silly way to escape. And you are right, they cannot escape forever. But too bad these boys dun see it. They would rather escape for a while than not at all (self deception).
People who use defering to escape NS even though they not keen to study???
Well studying is for your furture,u have to study whether u are keen or not,so even a female who does not have to serve NS will have to study too whether like to study or not as the society look at paper qualification. -
My friend,as least u are working and earning money before studyingOriginally posted by Honeybunz:I really dunno how true is this or how many ppl having this problem.
Maybe there are many and some are just lucky not to have this problem.
I grad from poly. Spent three years slogging in some american firm, before I decided that I need minimumly a degree to go to a managerial position in this firm (of course also subject to my performance). So I quit and used my saving to do a degree in USA.
Frankly, I don't remember having problem going back to student life. In fact, I studied better and managed my time and priorities well, lived a disciplined & organised life at the campus hostel. Maybe I should be thankful to the stress & heavy workloads I've been thru in the american firm. I got good GPA in the end (when I didn't perform this well during my poly days).
That is why I feel NS training can do great for guys instead of creating drawbacks. Drawbacks are more for those who already have the wrong mindset and attitude before enlistment.
Maybe I'm just a one off case. Or maybe I am just lucky.
We guys,how much does we earn in NS in the 2 and a half yrs?
That why now i am struggling part time to study and work now.
I have to even give up in studying in a local Uni for 4 yrs full time for SIM as it offer part time and it only 2 yrs.How much does studying in local uni costs for 4 yrs???where will i be able to get the money from?the army allowances???
So is NS creating any benefits for me?And please don't tell me to work 1st before studying,how old am I already -
Ok... i put it in another way...Originally posted by KenPlus:Hmm maybe i am stupid,i really don't get your point loh.
People who use defering to escape NS even though they not keen to study???
Well studying is for your furture,u have to study whether u are keen or not,so even a female who does not have to serve NS will have to study too whether like to study or not as the society look at paper qualification.
People enrol in courses to siam NS.
They dun like to study, but lan lan have to enrol to get the letters from school for them to give to SAF for the deferment.
After the deferment is approved, depending on the course, some will not attend lesson cuz they dun like schooling in the first place. They are just making use of the school to get deferment letter.
But some courses require minimum attendance, or else will flunk and get kicked it. So these boys will drag their butt to the school just to fill up the minimum attendance (eg. if they are required to attend 8 out of 12 lesson for each subject, they will attend only 8 lessons and then disappear or go on MC).
For those who use private A level course, A level allows retaking if you fail.
So those boys will flunk their A level again and again (I dunno whether there is a limit to the no. of retakes). They will either purposely fail to siam NS, or really cannot pass the exam (cuz they are interested in studies in the first place).
In summary, not all ppl sign up for courses to further their education. And those examples that I listed, I am not talking about those who honestly/genuinely want to study. I am mainly talking about those dishonest ones who use school enrolment to delay going into NS. And yes, they are silly and stupid. This is just self deception cuz ultimately they still have to head to NS. But even if they know they are being stupid, they will choose to do that. To them, siam for two or three years is better than none.
All these cowards are the product of good life in Singapore and parents' pampering.
I have to use the word coward cuz I really mean it.
I dun think any woman with the right frame of mind will want to marry such guys. You see... if the guy is so afraid to face the training which only last for two years, how to expect him to care for and protect me? If anything happens, he will hide under my sleeve maybe.
And yes, many girls do look down on such guys. It's just like guys dun like it when girls only want to stay at home, shake leg and count on the husbands instead of making themselves useful to the society just because they find working too stressful ( this I got from a group of married colleagues complaining to me ). -
u spent 3 years in an american firm. if u spent 3 years(including the waiting time b4 enlistment and after ORD) being made to do menial sh|t in the army then maybe u'll find it rather different.Originally posted by Honeybunz:I really dunno how true is this or how many ppl having this problem.
Maybe there are many and some are just lucky not to have this problem.
I grad from poly. Spent three years slogging in some american firm, before I decided that I need minimumly a degree to go to a managerial position in this firm (of course also subject to my performance). So I quit and used my saving to do a degree in USA.
Frankly, I don't remember having problem going back to student life. In fact, I studied better and managed my time and priorities well, lived a disciplined & organised life at the campus hostel. Maybe I should be thankful to the stress & heavy workloads I've been thru in the american firm. I got good GPA in the end (when I didn't perform this well during my poly days).
That is why I feel NS training can do great for guys instead of creating drawbacks. Drawbacks are more for those who already have the wrong mindset and attitude before enlistment.
Maybe I'm just a one off case. Or maybe I am just lucky.
I think your case is not very applicable. Most guys I know who don't have bad attitudes towards NS, still found it hard upon entering local unis and starting their uni degree with the girls who came right out of JC. -
Well, if it is the money issue you are facing, then it's a different topic liao lor.Originally posted by KenPlus:My friend,as least u are working and earning money before studying
We guys,how much does we earn in NS in the 2 and a half yrs?
That why now i am struggling part time to study and work now.
I have to even give up in studying in a local Uni for 4 yrs full time for SIM as it offer part time and it only 2 yrs.How much does studying in local uni costs for 4 yrs???where will i be able to get the money from?the army allowances???
So is NS creating any benefits for me?And please don't tell me to work 1st before studying,how old am I already
Not serving NS will not solve this problem, you see. -
Well we guys could have use the 2 and a half yr to earn some incomeOriginally posted by Honeybunz:Well, if it is the money issue you are facing, then it's a different topic liao lor.
Not serving NS will not solve this problem, you see.
My resume will have appear 2 and a half yr of working experience instead? -
heheh... my job in US firm does require menial work apart from my admin work...hehe. Cuz no guys in that branch office and I was the only one young enough to carrying those goods.Originally posted by HENG@:u spent 3 years in an american firm. if u spent 3 years(including the waiting time b4 enlistment and after ORD) being made to do menial sh|t in the army then maybe u'll find it rather different.
I think your case is not very applicable. Most guys I know who don't have bad attitudes towards NS, still found it hard upon entering local unis and starting their uni degree with the girls who came right out of JC.
But of course, it's nothing compared to what guys go thru lah... running & exercising every morning, every afternoon, every evening...Even just before lunch also have to do chin up. HEHEhe
I dunno how the girls you see in Uni perform in their studies. Maybe the passion in the studies is still there since they enter straight from A level. That's why you see them studying better than the guys.
But being in poly before and having classmates who are post ORD and some before enlistments. I somehow see a certain streetwise factor in them, which I dun see in the girls (no offence to girls cuz I am charbo also), the boys who are not enlisted yet and those who serve in NS admin side. I dun mean these other groups of ppl are stupid. But they are lacking this certain streetwise factor and maturity. I especially notice the difference during tutorials when they talk (you know lah.. tutorials always must present this present that). The postORD ones tend to be more resourceful and handle things well, while the others tend to be a bit clumsy and lack confidence. I see the same thing in other places like in church, among my friends etc.
*Note : my definition of Post ORD in my example refers to those who went thru tough training... not those who serve in pes C, D, E as clerk. -
Ya lah that why,since we males serve NS for the govt,at least the govt should try to help out for those who want to study in local uniOriginally posted by HENG@:u spent 3 years in an american firm. if u spent 3 years(including the waiting time b4 enlistment and after ORD) being made to do menial sh|t in the army then maybe u'll find it rather different.
I think your case is not very applicable. Most guys I know who don't have bad attitudes towards NS, still found it hard upon entering local unis and starting their uni degree with the girls who came right out of JC.
Before enlisting i dun really have bad attitudes in Ns,i felt that as a male singaporean it my duty loh,but after serving,seeing all the cock up issue inside really felt wasted 2 and a half yrs loh.