If war comes, then NSMen...
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(Chenc)
Iraq was is the few exceptions, where US somehow justified it (whether reasonable or not). China or Malaysia or etc will not invade just to gain power.
Yeah, but if that's the case, how did the Vietnam War, the 1950s N. and S. Korea etc. started? The other countries could have put sanctions on those warring countries, but they didn't. War still broke out.
No country is completely self-sustaining and they in one way or another have to trade with other countries. So if one country carry out a war, UN and other countries will stop trading or come up with some restrictions and control. Like the US done to the N.Korea
(CindyFeh)3. Shoot your commanders first because they are paper generals only. Fight for them, sure die.
Yeah loh, i agree. so nice to hear such words coming from a girl somemore!
(Snop Coolz)1 thing..if N.korea attack us...1 tiny nuke from them..our grounds are already flatten...mayb even johor also gone...
no lah....if a modern day nuke drops on SG, not only SG......but Batam, KL, Johor and all surrounding islands and cities will be also gone.
if china attack us..we will b fighting an army of men..u think singapore can actually win any country?
last time in 2000, got one nuclear scientist says the average nuclear bomb is 9.6 times more powerful than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki one. now it's 2006. maybe it's 15 - 25 times more scary!
(Chelzea)mai kong jiao wei lah Laughing u think 1 WW2 izit Laughing i nuclear come,singapore sink liao
Sinking Japan, and now, Sinking Singapore?
(Ponders)Exit permits will not be issued and those issued will be cancelled.
i wonder why they can do this.......those high-up folks always proclaim SG is a "democratic" country, but if war comes, then we don't even have the chance to flee? i remember in other countries, when war comes, people just take trains, buses, planes or whatever to flee and the gahmen also encourage them and let only the army stay to minimize casualties.
whoa....if let others know about us, we sia-sway liao. war come cannot run, then be sitting ducks wait for God of Death to pay you visit lah? then the death god also will be very busy, must work overtime liao.and i think there is enough peer pressure to make you stay.
i agree. SG people tend to listen to the laws at the last minute. like for every NSF, they hate NS but force themselves to do it. but then, in war......if you're forced to fight war with total reluctance and ill-will, then sure die one.
not only waste lives, but effort and country also gone.
(Maxwell)agree with the thread starter that one day war will bring out again. Look at the current UN, although it's better and stronger than the league of nations of last time, it's very much dependent on US which is the main financial support of UN. UN itself is to prevent any possible war or threat through peaceful means, but it seems it can't do any thing to US when they decide to declare war on another country in the name of terrorism. Someday history will repeat itself.
yeah, but as Clinton once said, "Asia will be the region to watch in the new millennium". i think very true. the terrorists are dangerous, but they're nothing compared to huge superpower countries. USA now distracted by terrorist and it really has it's foot stuck deep in quicksand. if it's foot is still sinking in the terrorist/Iraq quicksand 8 years from now and china's military strength is more powerful, it can defeat the US with no problem and I think the terrorists will be glad as well.
but if china really attacks, no problem as well, because i believe Japan(with it's self-defence force) can still hold them off a little and South Korea will also do something. maybe N. Korea and Russia will help China(thereby the new Three Axis of Evil) to defeat their long-time eye-sore, the US.
after US is down, then we all die liao.
(SixSentinels)"The nations of the world will have to unite, for the next war will be an interplanetary war. The nations of the earth must someday make a common front against attack by people from other planets.
that remark from McAurthur is really naive. the next war, WW III, will involve entire continents capable of destruction never witnessed before in history. the destruction scale will be a lot more than WW I and WW II combined together. it'll probably be the mother of all wars ever fought.
anyway, if humans managed to survived, then McArthur's statement might be right : we'll be facing aliens in WW IV.
or maybe we call it Star Wars I already?
(Nullifed)If nuclear weapons are involved i sugges we don't waste any of our time and effort and let's all sit down and take a smoke break and look up in the sky where there will be a bright flash of light.
the night before that happens, i'll have all the sex i can first before i die. don't care liao.....all human lust will run wild.
(NewAge)Have anyone notice the different in age which equal experience between Singapore generals and those of other countries. Ours are mostly in the 30s or 40s while the US generals are in their 50s or 60s. So do anyone still have confident in yr general?! Please dun forget most of them are scholars. They might not be promoted because of merit but becasue of them taking mindef scholarship thus mindef nurture them.
the generals in other countries(in this case, i'll focus on the US) get promoted not because of paper qualifications.
all of them are true war veterans who've at least participated in the Vietnam war, the Korean War etc., serving as young officers back then. they're not like SG, whereby if you're a President scholar and you sign on in army, you get promoted to Captain right away and get promoted non-stop until you reach Brigadier/Major-General.
our generals are more like having ceremonial purposes, such as always visiting foreign countries to cut red ribbons, receive "regional cooperation medals", get confered a title in a certain regional country(Highest White Knight by the Order of the King of Thailand, try that) and make "so-and-so" pledges.
everyday sit in air-con office sign documents, approve contractor/public works, review the financial budgets of camps blah blah blah....they make better executives in SG Shenton offices, though.
(AigloSicle)Such a situation is entirely hypothetical. the chances of any country attacking singapore is quite slim. anyway even if we do get occupied it is relatively safe to say that the occupation wouldnt last forever as history tells us that no occupation has truly succeeded.
yeah, but i don't want to see my family killed or get myself tortured!
anyway, one of the posters mentioned something like even if china rush down upon us with no weapons, they also win.
correct le! china's army alone is a lot more than entire SG population!!!!!
even if let's say, 500, 000 china troopers descend upon us non-stop from all directions carrying swords and spears, we also no chance one, because the outnumbering problem overshadows our gun-and-bomb advantage. by the time we load our ammo, their next batch is coming again, like the tide at sea. die liao. -
Well i would gladly fight for the country because i have to protect my loved ones... but sadly though sometimes i really wonder what those politicians will do when a war really breaks out, i suppose they will run off after all those pledges they make together with the people...Originally posted by industrie:I am absolutely disgusted with the way some of you people think.
When we fight for our country, we are fighting for our families, gfs/wives, friends and the men next to us. And most importantly, we are fighting for our own country- our home.
If you think defecting is a good idea, go ahead. But am sorry to say you will probably be kicked out by the foreign country as you will be viewed as burdens to them or if you are "fortunate", thrown into some holding camp for defectors.
If indeed a war breaks out one day whereby a larger army attacks us, at least we can give them one hell of a punch before perishing. I despise those cowards who run away if the need to be called upon happens.
Anyway am glad that you people are probably the minority group who think like that. Am sure there are many older men (40s-50s) who would be more willing than you to bear arms even if they are not called upon to. -
i think so too, they are used to pampered lifestyle
they have not even tasted poverty and starvation before,
do u think they can take hardships like the construction workers? -
1950s is a very different era as compared to now. Countries then focus on recovering from war and to do this they need to side with the super-powers. Also, many acts and sanctions were being passed in the UN after WWII. In fact, during WWII whoever have nuclear weapons makes the decision. The struggle for power then blinded everyone from war restrictions.Originally posted by Nikar2:Yeah, but if that's the case, how did the Vietnam War, the 1950s N. and S. Korea etc. started? The other countries could have put sanctions on those warring countries, but they didn't. War still broke out.
Also, for those who are afraid of being nuked, US, Russia, UK, France and China had sign treaty to ban usage of uncontrolled nuclear usage. Meaning only nuclear plants are allowed. Even using a tiny amount of nuclear energy (controlled nuclear fallouts) to blow up a cave for land developing is not ok.
So just worry bout N.Korea, nah they are screw up/ -
The atomic bombs, so fondly called, had 15 and 21 kilotons of destructive force of TNT. Now, with good technolgy, bombs with MT had been made, around 4-6 megaton of TNT.
Nuclear devices are not really designed to explode on the ground; radioactivity is the largest kill. Bombs will drop/explode about 500-1000 metres above ground, causing widespread radioactive destruction.
Soviets had once small bombs around 20kgs. Those have only about 1-2kT of explosive force, but, radioactivity is very high.
So when someone says he bomb explodes on ground level=wrong.
Doomsday Scenario
3-4 megaton, single warhead delivery, reentery, detonating 1500 metres above ground level, about whole of Singapore will feel shockwave, taking Macritchie Reservoir as Ground Zero, buildings in Toa Payoh, Braddell, Bishan, Ang Mo Kio, will suffer destructive damage. Buildings in Newton, Yio Chu Kang, Bukit Timah, Bukit Batok, City, as far as Hougang and Geylang will suffer heavy, un-repairable damage. Jurong Islands, Tuas, Jurong West, Changi, Bedok and Punggol/parts of Sengkang will suffer minor shockwave damage. Just to think of, planes in Changi Airport would be blown sideways, and you can think of the damage. Tall buildings like HDB Hub at Toa Payoh would just be annihated like cardboard, plus the close proximity to the zone.
Just my observations/research into nuclear physics/weaponary. -
Hmmm.. i tot NSFs will be the last to be engaged in a war? cos they not ORD (Operational Ready Date) yet mah, correct me if im wrong....
Someone was saying, family is worth protecting, not the country. Lemme ask u then: No country where u get ur family?
anyway, i'd rather die while fighting for our freedom. I have my fugging pride. If they wanna own us, they have to work for it. I'm not gonna sit ard in some bomb shelter and wait to lose the war. Since we're already such a small country, the chances of us winning might be small. So... wait also die, fight also die. I rather frag some b4 I say bye bye...
frankly speaking, im also kinda disgusted by how some of the locals think. I really wonder how many are willing to step forward and try to make a difference.
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First they will ask the enemies to study for 6 years to understand the singapore basic social defense system, then they will take the Preliminary Success in Learning to Eradicate SG (PSLEs). Then they will have to study for another 4-5 years to understand the second layer of total defense. Which then they would have to take another exam, this time much harder, commonly known as Operation SG ('O' lvls). After that, they would undergo a harsh academic pseudo situation to interpret the true meaning of civil defense. This requires at least 2-3 years of focused studying. Afterwhich they would have to take a much tougher exam, generally known as Advance into SG ('A' lvls). Now~! things gets exciting~! Certain enemies would decide to skip the 'A' lvls and go for a more practical approach to invade, through polymorph techniques (polytechnic), this outspoken method is very specific in its details, hence it would require at least 3-4 years of pure research and hardwork to truely understand the millitary defense. If they manage to successfully get through this problem scenario, then they would be offered a diploma, making them qualified to even ponder about invading SG. Others who finished the 'A' lvls would then be offered one last obstacle to overcome, which is... the... Nuts Unto SG (NUS). This is the final lap in order to start discussing plans to invade singapore. After 4 damn agonizing years of tormenting, sadistic pure studying, those who make it would then graduate with a certificate, which is globally recognised, grants the permission of enemies to openly declare economic sanctions against SG. For those enemies who really really really want to conquer SG, they might considered suffering for a few more years and take the MASTERS course... Omg.. This course has a pessimistic meaning to it. Must all subjects tested eternally receive success. (MASTERS). If they manage to obtain this piece of paper, they would be able to send spys into SG and steal internal information... After all, in a war, knowledge of the enemy is invaluable, hence these papers are vital in order to fight with SG. Enemies with brain levels as high as einstein would then further probe for more information in order to really really crush SG.. That is.. The feared... Psychologically Harmful Dope (PhD). To the few who ever attained the PhD level, these are the enemies who are would then just send a nuclear bomb into SG, and TaTa~
The reason for writing this totally absurd passage is a totally understandable for such a profound question. sarcastic measures have to be implemented. No harm intended. Have a nice day -
Ponders is right.
the China element takes higher priority in our forward defense posture today.
It's not always about the water.Think in terms of equipment range, projection and training(basing) factors.Look at recent procurements and future procurements. -
I don't get you.. in other countries, when war comes, PEOPLE flee. Correct. They are civilians, women and children.Originally posted by Nikar2:(Ponders)
quote:Exit permits will not be issued and those issued will be cancelled.
i wonder why they can do this.......those high-up folks always proclaim SG is a "democratic" country, but if war comes, then we don't even have the chance to flee? i remember in other countries, when war comes, people just take trains, buses, planes or whatever to flee and the gahmen also encourage them and let only the army stay to minimize casualties.
whoa....if let others know about us, we sia-sway liao. war come cannot run, then be sitting ducks wait for God of Death to pay you visit lah? then the death god also will be very busy, must work overtime liao.
In Singapore, all MALES are NS Men, they have the duty to defend the land therefore their exit permits will be cancelled. -
ah, blind patriotism... i almost remember wat that feels like. once upon a time... i was much worse than u, but its ok, i've grown.Originally posted by industrie:I am absolutely disgusted with the way some of you people think.
When we fight for our country, we are fighting for our families, gfs/wives, friends and the men next to us. And most importantly, we are fighting for our own country- our home.
If you think defecting is a good idea, go ahead. But am sorry to say you will probably be kicked out by the foreign country as you will be viewed as burdens to them or if you are "fortunate", thrown into some holding camp for defectors.
If indeed a war breaks out one day whereby a larger army attacks us, at least we can give them one hell of a punch before perishing. I despise those cowards who run away if the need to be called upon happens.
Anyway am glad that you people are probably the minority group who think like that. Am sure there are many older men (40s-50s) who would be more willing than you to bear arms even if they are not called upon to.
please allow me to be the devils advocate.
why punch the enemy when the starter of the war has already fled to a neutral/allied country? wouldn't they be considered "defectors" too? no wait, they'll direct the war effort from outside... to defend their assets, in the safety of their safe houses in a foreign land.
there is always another option.
u wanna die because some joker started crap and ran away?
good for u. please call MINDEF/CMPB to indicate your interest to sign on as a Regular.
u can die for the country, loved ones or even your pet rat while the politicians die luffing at your sheer stupidity of defending their properties and assets.
i'd do anything to keep my loved ones safe... but fight for the authoritarian regime that takes away much of our freedoms and controls us as if we are dumb animals...?
i'd not say yes or no for in the desperate hour, desperate people do stuff that may contradict wat they say all their lives. even yourself.
so dun pat yourself on the back too early.
and since im the devil's advocate, how sure are u of those over 40? have u done a survey? how many said yes or no or undecided?
didnt think so.
and if u r talking about me under the "disgusted" part, u'd take note that my vocation in the SAF is much more dangerous than than an average soldier's. if u havent really done wat your vocation says, i suggest u keep that rhetoric to yourself.Originally posted by Haoz30
u can start fighting now.
i'd rather die while fighting for our freedom.
So... wait also die, fight also die. I rather frag some b4 I say bye bye...
frankly speaking, im also kinda disgusted by how some of the locals think. I really wonder how many are willing to step forward and try to make a difference.
the people are oppressed, the media is state run, any opposition crushed/sued, monopoly of everything in sg, control of everything in sg, speakers' corner a bloody joke, to even imply the govt is like NKF equals to sued until bankrupt and cannot pay debts even after working like a bull for several lifetimes, even during election the PAP sign is much larger than the opposition's, nobody listens, the ONLY country with MM and SM even though we are MUCH smaller, and we pay all of them Ms more than the US president while some people are so damn poor and have to jump onto the MRT rail to commit suicide to get some attention... u cant even get a BJ without telling the ger not to bao toh uÂ…
need i continue about the overly authoritarian gov?
frag some before saying bye bye... if u r really 30 years old, u sure have a young heart.
i repeat myself. if u r talking about me under the "disgusted" part, u'd take note that my vocation in the SAF is much more dangerous than than an average soldier's. if u havent really done wat your vocation says, i suggest u keep that rhetoric to yourself.
______________________________________________________________
generally, people do not think the way they do if not for their past experiences and/or knowledge.
there are no "wrong" thoughts, as humans always take the best path toward their objective based on their perspective which comes from their past experiences and/or knowledge.
therefore, there are only inflexible and ignorant human beings.
or just plain stupid. -
As someone once said, why die for your country? Make the other bastar_d die for his country.Originally posted by BabyTea:to die while fighting is honourable
to die without firing a single shot is stupid -
No poor bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making other bastards die for their country.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:As someone once said, why die for your country? Make the other bastar_d die for his country.
- Gen. George Smith Patton -
well even though they had signed a treaty to ban usage of uncontolled nuclear bombs, however superpowers like US, are constantly stocking up their supplies of nuclear warheads. Thus when a war breaks out the treaty itself will render useless and even though there's UN, i doubt its capability as a peacekeeping organisation. However the usage of nuclear bombs will not come in so early in a war unless the conflict worsens to a degree of unrepairable situation.Originally posted by chenc:1950s is a very different era as compared to now. Countries then focus on recovering from war and to do this they need to side with the super-powers. Also, many acts and sanctions were being passed in the UN after WWII. In fact, during WWII whoever have nuclear weapons makes the decision. The struggle for power then blinded everyone from war restrictions.
Also, for those who are afraid of being nuked, US, Russia, UK, France and China had sign treaty to ban usage of uncontrolled nuclear usage. Meaning only nuclear plants are allowed. Even using a tiny amount of nuclear energy (controlled nuclear fallouts) to blow up a cave for land developing is not ok.
So just worry bout N.Korea, nah they are screw up/ -
Oh well, since you hate the Government so much, you always have the option of ousting them out once the war is over. That is if you are still alive.
Seriously, if you have some issue with them, go do something about it instead of blaming others for your pitiful existence.
ANYWAY...you professing that you came from an elite combat unit (i assume) makes me even more disgusted that you are talking in such a manner. Oh my...our first line of defence is actually training and fighting so half-heartedly?...Pity pity...
And HELL(no pun intended,
devil's advocate ) YEAH, i know of many baby-boomers who are a "teeny weeny" bit more patriotic than you. -
Originally posted by industrie:
pitiful existance. tsk tsk tsk
Oh well, since you hate the Government so much, you always have the option of ousting them out once the war is over. That is if you are still alive.
Seriously, if you have some issue with them, go do something about it instead of blaming others for your pitiful existence.
ANYWAY...you professing that you came from an elite combat unit (i assume) makes me even more disgusted that you are talking in such a manner. Oh my...our first line of defence is actually training and fighting so half-heartedly?...Pity pity...
And [b]HELL(no pun intended, devil's advocate ) YEAH, i know of many baby-boomers who are a "teeny weeny" bit more patriotic than you.
[/b], did u read about wat i said about inflexible, ignorant, or stupid people?
like i said, in desperate hours, desperate men do things that they never dreamed of. so your patriotic talk is just pure unadulterated nonsense to me. talk is just talk.
disgusted? dun read my posts then. perhaps u r still very ignorant of the things that are going on. so, why dun u stfu and start thinking for once?
half hearted training and fighting? f*** u. politics is no excuse for doing the job half heartedly, u f***ing retard. too bad u r not good enough to be in an elite unit, and never will be. and with this kinda f***ed up mentality, im not surprised at all.
im just more politically inclined than most.
and unlike u, i use my grey matter more.
so dun whine like a pathetic little child who isnt even toilet trained yet. -
first off, the scenario is unlikely....china has gone too far down the capitalist road to do another 'cultural revolution'..already saddled with its own ethic problems, it's got a full plate.....north korea needs to either 'walk through' china or gamble against its southern cousins with us troops....
but for the sake of argument... assuming an invasion were to happen, unless you are a good long distance swimmer, many will not escape....airports are usually the first installations to be taken out...
as for fighting, not sure if the foot soldiers will obey the elitist generals tucked safely away in some bunker - overseas.....lol...anycase, the saf has been playing mind games all these while through press releases about their 3G warriors and 'upgrades'....... -
Originally posted by countdracula:first off, the scenario is unlikely....china has gone too far down the capitalist road to do another 'cultural revolution'..already saddled with its own ethic problems, it's got a full plate.....north korea needs to either 'walk through' china or gamble against its southern cousins with us troops....
but for the sake of argument... assuming an invasion were to happen, unless you are a good long distance swimmer, many will not escape....airports are usually the first installations to be taken out...
as for fighting, not sure if the foot soldiers will obey the elitist generals tucked safely away in some bunker - overseas.....lol...anycase, the saf has been playing mind games all these while through press releases about their 3G warriors and 'upgrades'.......
for all their talk and stuff, i dun really feel 3G. do u?
now the pioneer mag keeps advertising the capabilities of 3SIR... im not sure how 3G they are, anyone from there? -
Originally posted by Ristar:
Am damn glad am not in the same platoon as you. At least I would feel safer with a blind guy watching my back for me. So...no thanks!
pitiful existance. tsk tsk tsk, did u read about wat i said about inflexible, ignorant, or stupid people?
like i said, in desperate hours, desperate men do things that they never dreamed of. so your patriotic talk is just [b]pure unadulterated nonsense to me. talk is just talk.
disgusted? dun read my posts then. perhaps u r still very ignorant of the things that are going on. so, why dun u stfu and start thinking for once?
half hearted training and fighting? f*** u. politics is no excuse for doing the job half heartedly, u f***ing retard. too bad u r not good enough to be in an elite unit, and never will be.
so dun whine like a pathetic little child who isnt even toilet trained yet.[/b] -
Depend on which country attack us, if a well plan invasion through air strike and the air space is being taken control then our NSmen can only wait for US fleet to support. I think WW3 is something will decide by time and speed just like 911 strike, out of nowhere within 1/2 hr the 2 tower is hit liao. The risk is there will be ppl in here eg. FT can be spy. I think b4 we return to our unit and draw our M16/SAR all the runway in the airbase will be destory liao.
The point is how many days we can hold as water supply is being cut. -
u wish.Originally posted by industrie:Am damn glad am not in the same platoon as you. At least I would feel safer with a blind guy watching my back for me. So...no thanks!
incompetent retards who do not have the tendency to use their brains arent allowed in my unit. sorry to disappoint u.
like i said, all your patriotic talk is just hot air that stinks, same as the blind guy statement.
really pathetic. but wat to do, u just HAVE to feel alpha, dont u? -
against USA, its always the same.Originally posted by T.Ryousuke:Depend on which country attack us, if a well plan invasion through air strike and the air space is being taken control then our NSmen can only wait for US fleet to support. I think WW3 is something will decide by time and speed just like 911 strike, out of nowhere within 1/2 hr the 2 tower is hit liao. The risk is there will be ppl in here eg. FT can be spy. I think b4 we return to our unit and draw our M16/SAR all the runway in the airbase will be destory liao.
The point is how many days we can hold as water supply is being cut.
1st: Tomahawk missiles destroys vital installations.
2nd: Air strikes. 1 X CVN (Nuclear powered Aircraft Carrier) is capable of carrying more than 80 multirole fighters and support aircraft. in addition, they will position the USAF within striking distance in allied countries.
they will achieve air superiority easily if not immediately as their Tomahawks has already destroyed vital installations or is working in tandem. they'll win by sheer numbers with experienced fighter pilots. commando elements infiltrate and paints targets for the pilots who destroys them quickly and effectively.
3rd: US Marines and Army heavily supported by Close Air Support and shelling from naval guns.
4th: we die/surrender. they conquered Iraq quickly. ours will be in a matter of days, if not hours.
a guerrilla war in an urban environment however, is another story. -
the war now is not mainly on numbers but on the stragegy and technology adopted
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true, and i agree with u wholeheartedly.Originally posted by dranoel maxwell:the war now is not mainly on numbers but on the stragegy and technology adopted
however i for one would not even dare to compare singapore's level of technology against the USA's.
i would also NOT dare to compare singapore's generals against US generals.
i would also NOT doubt USAF/US Navy's fighter pilots who have actually bombed and shot down real enemies before.
i would also not doubt the effectiveness of SOCOM Delta, army rangers, navy seals, marines and army from the US.
i would also NOT doubt how the US's fighter jets would perform against our own.
i would also NOT doubt the effectiveness of Tomahawk missiles.
i would also hasten to note that NO major wars are won without the use of air power. therefore, air superiority is of the utmost importance.
if wanna talk about war, its best to benchmark own forces against the world's premier armed force. if not, might as well compare ourselves to Micronesia and feel good about it. -
B4 the attack our water, food, fuel, air and ship line all will be cut.
Then cut all communication and jam the radar. We all panic liao how to fight? -
can don't so kiasu or not? many of u say tht u r willing to die for ur family but are reluctant to do so for the country...this sounds very much like a 'beggar-thy-neighbour' policy. It should occur to u people tht it is through collective strength tht individual survival is guaranteed (or at least made possible) . anyway,when war comes i doubt anyone will really have a choice.
bet u guys dont play enough computer games...heard of divide and conquer?