Singapore stay or leave, leave ? where to go ?
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You could try the 'China Towns' of the worldOriginally posted by dragg:i prefer a chinese-oriented society.
if i ever emigrate i will choose taiwan.
i dont think i can live among the ang mohs.
The chinese are everywhere these days, even in Africa. -
well, if I leave, ironically, I will be closer to family. Friends..think I'll bump into them abroad too..half have already left.Originally posted by Kinokuniya:True, but there are things you have to trade in for lower-priced housing and cars and education.
Such as, your family and friends here, the safety of the country, the culture, the people who readily and truly accept you as one of their kind, to mention a few.
Ultimately it boils down to individual preference...
I don't think there's any (or many) places better than Singapore in all aspects.
It all comes to whether you're willing to give up something to obtain another.
so how leh? argument not strong. -
YES CORRECT.... in fact Singapore is one of the cheapest taxed country. In fact we are the lowest among the developed country. Singaporean just like to complain... the reason for this low tax is really becoz of the erp, coe, and gst... or else everyone has to pay high income tax...
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Phoebe, please specify which country you're talking about. It doesn't sound like any I've come across.Originally posted by Phoebie:some other countries charge 10% GST, and in these countries, those who earn around 10k and above per month need to pay 48% income tax
Most of the tax collected (in the other mentioned countries as above) are used to fund the social welfare. Also in these countries, if you are considered underprivileged, you get money from the govt, for example, if you earn like $200 a month, the govt will give you like $400 a month so you have $600, but, if you work twice as hard and earn $400 a month, the govt will give you $250 a month, so now you do have more money-you have $650 now, but, you have to work twice as hard. So if you earn more they give you less, so pple would rather work half as much and earn $50 less. Actually I feel this is not healthy. It's creating a not so encouraging mindset on people, and, those high earners may have negative impression "so what if I work hard and earn over tens of Ks per month, 48% of my salary will still go back to the govt to help those who doesn't work as hard, and or, those who doesn't as much money as I do on further studies to get good jobs"
normally people migrate hoping to seek better life and salary or education elsewhere . They don't really hope to see themselves regretting after making the decision of packing their bags and leaving their homeland.
As the saying goes "ni kang wo hao, wo kang ni hao" (You see me good, I see you good) and you'll be shocked to see the number of foreigners wanting to get PR or citizenship status here
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To me it sounds like what WA used to practise 10-20 years back..is that true?Originally posted by Gedanken:Phoebe, please specify which country you're talking about. It doesn't sound like any I've come across. -
no I'm not referring to the UK. Please don't assumeOriginally posted by scabstermooch: - You know, I recall myself expressing that view during primary school. However, please forgive me because I did not know how the tax system worked at the time. You see, 48% (in your example) would refer to any amount earnt after you hit a certain level. Eg. First 15000 might be tax free, then every $1 after that you are taxed 20% up till 50000, then maybe every dolalr after that 48%. So no, 48% of your salary doesn't go back to the government.
Your entire argument there is therefore really not much of an argument. Well, assuming that your example is based on fantasy of course...coz I haven;t heard of a developed country that taxes 48% of your salary...
In short, please be more specific. Thank you.
there's no argument and no intend of it in my post. My post is a fact, and I never really want to type it out as I know I will meet some snouts like you in public forums.
Now I'm stating the facts here because I hope the facts in other country can comfort folks living here amidst the hike of GST
you can carry on with your presumption
I'm not going to be bothered -
I never said you were refering to the UK. And I am not really presuming anything. Could you please specify what country/countries you were referring to? Oh wait - You won't reveal that...hmmmmmmmOriginally posted by Phoebie:no I'm not referring to the UK. Please don't assume
there's no argument and no intend of it in my post. My post is a fact, and I never really want to type it out as I know I will meet some snouts like you in public forums.
Now I'm stating the facts here because I hope the facts in other country can comfort folks living here amidst the hike of GST
you can carry on with your presumption
I'm not going to be bothered
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but nobody is entiteld to be wrong on the facts. -
there's no harm in letting us know what nation/nations/regional groupings practise this.Originally posted by Phoebie:no I'm not referring to the UK. Please don't assume
there's no argument and no intend of it in my post. My post is a fact, and I never really want to type it out as I know I will meet some snouts like you in public forums.
Now I'm stating the facts here because I hope the facts in other country can comfort folks living here amidst the hike of GST
you can carry on with your presumption
I'm not going to be bothered
else there will be a misunderstanding. -
I think Japan practises something like that.
I read somewhere that the citizens of that particular country, may not be Japan if I recalled erroneously, some have lost incentive and will to work because the lower-income are so well-taken care of with the tax revenue earned from the upper-income.
Well, to LazerLord, again I think it's about the individual. If you are surrounded by friends who have already moved overseas, it's a different story from what I earlier mentioned. With familiar people already overseas, one will be more inclined to migrate as well (e.g. Gedanken and his friends), especially when fuelled by the recent policy changes and influenced by complaints of the citizens. When there are already people you know living in a particular place you possibly intend to move to, it's like having a foundation built there, and not having to start entirely from scratch is an attractive incentive to migrate.
Singaporeans are not a homogenous lot. So there will definitely be starkly different views with respect to whether Singapore is a good place to live in or not.
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Heh, Kino, I was merely being a bit of playing the joker there.Originally posted by Kinokuniya:I think Japan practises something like that.
I read somewhere that the citizens of that particular country, may not be Japan if I recalled erroneously, some have lost incentive and will to work because the lower-income are so well-taken care of with the tax revenue earned from the upper-income.
Well, to LazerLord, again I think it's about the individual. If you are surrounded by friends who have already moved overseas, it's a different story from what I earlier mentioned. With familiar people already overseas, one will be more inclined to migrate as well (e.g. Gedanken and his friends), especially when fuelled by the recent policy changes and influenced by complaints of the citizens.
Singaporeans are not a homogenous lot. So there will definitely be starkly different views with respect to whether Singapore is a good place to live in or not.
Already got what you meant. -
This one I mentioned with respect to Gedanken's friend, who had a father asking him to raise his kids overseas.Originally posted by Kinokuniya:Singaporeans are not a homogenous lot. So there will definitely be starkly different views with respect to whether Singapore is a good place to live in or not.
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Oh, haha okay.Originally posted by Kinokuniya:This one I mentioned with respect to Gedanken's friend, who had a father asking him to raise his kids overseas.
Miscomm yeah. -
Phoebie, if you're stating facts here, surely there's no problem naming the country since the facts are on your side?Originally posted by Phoebie:no I'm not referring to the UK. Please don't assume
there's no argument and no intend of it in my post. My post is a fact, and I never really want to type it out as I know I will meet some snouts like you in public forums.
Now I'm stating the facts here because I hope the facts in other country can comfort folks living here amidst the hike of GST
you can carry on with your presumption
I'm not going to be bothered -
oh yea horOriginally posted by dragg:i prefer a chinese-oriented society.
if i ever emigrate i will choose taiwan.
i dont think i can live among the ang mohs. 
yr hokkien beri power rite -
Not sure about that. Currently, the federal budget sets aside around 10% for welfare - Medicare, defence and tax cuts seem to be the biggest users of federal spending.Originally posted by LazerLordz:To me it sounds like what WA used to practise 10-20 years back..is that true?
Also, I don't know which country would make people pay 48 cents on the dollar. In the latest federal budget, the revised tax rates are:
$0 – $6,000 - Nil
$6,001 – $25,000 - 15c for each $1 over $6,000
$25,001 – $75,000 - 30c for each $1 over $25,000
$75,001 – $150,000 - 40c for each $1 over $75,000
Over $150,000 - 45c for each $1 over $150,000
Of course, if you're making a reasonable amount of dosh, it's your responsibility to get yourself a good accountant and make as much of you income tax-deductable as you can. Hell, a few years ago, billionaire Kerry Packer ended up paying $6 personal tax - I want his accountant! -
Hey, I call that pretty fair taxes. Considering that they have to run a minimum wage policy and a social security net.Originally posted by Gedanken:Not sure about that. Currently, the federal budget sets aside around 10% for welfare - Medicare, defence and tax cuts seem to be the biggest users of federal spending.
Also, I don't know which country would make people pay 48 cents on the dollar. In the latest federal budget, the revised tax rates are:
$0 – $6,000 - Nil
$6,001 – $25,000 - 15c for each $1 over $6,000
$25,001 – $75,000 - 30c for each $1 over $25,000
$75,001 – $150,000 - 40c for each $1 over $75,000
Over $150,000 - 45c for each $1 over $150,000
Of course, if you're making a reasonable amount of dosh, it's your responsibility to get yourself a good accountant and make as much of you income tax-deductable as you can. Hell, a few years ago, billionaire Kerry Packer ended up paying $6 personal tax - I want his accountant!
And didn't Australia declare a large budget surplus this year? Costello was grinnin away? -
I can't remember how many billion it was, but it was reasonably healthy and growth is steady. That said, I think Costello was grinning to keep up appearances after Little Johnny decided not to let him become PM.
Yeah, the taxes are all right - after accounting for what you save on property, cars and a few other things, you still come out ahead. -
Actually i have not come across any country who take 48% off your income... thats almost half of what you earned. I don think the trade union will allow that to happen.
Secondly, i must say singaporeans are efficient lot. we work hard in fact very hard all day and night to earn a living, unlike what i saw in europe, hey by 6pm nobody was on the street... not talking about night life... Since they are so many well to do singaporean in Australia, why don the country set a state which call mini Sg or mini asia some where in western australia whereby singaporean and other well to do asians can live with no culture differences hence do not have to adapt to cultural shock.
I believe it will do australia good as the vast land can be ulitised by us and prosper. it will be a draw.. -
What an interesting topic and replies. Life overseas isn't for everyone. IMHO, don't be crippled by indecision. Do your homework and find a country that best suits your needs, etc and make the legal, mental and emotional decision to disengage yourself from Sg. It's not easy, but if you really can't stand it in Sg, you gotta do what you gotta do. JMHO.
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read the belowOriginally posted by lastfall:Actually i have not come across any country who take 48% off your income... thats almost half of what you earned. I don think the trade union will allow that to happen.
Secondly, i must say singaporeans are efficient lot. we work hard in fact very hard all day and night to earn a living, unlike what i saw in europe, hey by 6pm nobody was on the street... not talking about night life... Since they are so many well to do singaporean in Australia, why don the country set a state which call mini Sg or mini asia some where in western australia whereby singaporean and other well to do asians can live with no culture differences hence do not have to adapt to cultural shock.
I believe it will do australia good as the vast land can be ulitised by us and prosper. it will be a draw..
but wait, I didn't mention Scandinavia in my post and I shall not disclose furtherOriginally posted by oxford mushroom:I WOULD like to commend Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong for sticking to the Singaporean economic model.
I read with interest his views regarding Scandinavian welfare states. I am from one of them: Finland.
While it is true that there is more 'welfare' in Scandinavia, it comes at a price. Public spending in my country stands at 25 per cent of GDP, twice that of Singapore.
The government in Finland spends vast amounts of money on free health care and education, nearly twice the 8 per cent of GDP spent in Singapore. Having been to Changi hospital I can say that health care here is no worse than in my country and the charges are very reasonable. My point is it doesn't have to be free.
It's a question of choice and pricing. The public sector typically does not run the most efficient services, because the services are non-competitive.
Singapore runs a tighter ship, because it's only partially subsidised. Compulsory savings schemes for health care and pensions are a far better way. So is taxing consumption over income.
Many people in my country give up half or more of their gross incomes to finance the almighty welfare state. This serves to promote equality of sorts and creates a vast middle class. It also stifles entrepreneurism and leads to voluntary unemployment. The cost of living is higher too, with GST at 22 per cent.
I disagreed with the crushing taxes in my country. It is for this reason that I came to Singapore, and was happy to give up the benefits I had paid for over the years.
Long live the Singaporean model.
Mika Sampovaara
Straits times 16 Nov)
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protest with my feet... anywhere will do... after 2 to 3 years come back as a FT....Originally posted by lastfall:Do you forsee yourself to stay put in singapore when the cost of living is geting higher day after day.
Should you leave this country, where can you go ?
Australia? discimination ? 40% income tax?
Japan ? Porn Haven? cost of living even higher ?
Chiang Mai ? beautiful girl, live like king? but security not there
US ? seem so good but the worst in all kind of crimes.. -
In Norway income tax ("inntektsskatt") and wealth tax ("formuesskatt") are direct taxes ("direkte skatter"). Income tax is paid directly as a percentage of income, whereas wealth tax is a tax on things you own, such as a house, bank deposits etc. Taxes are paid both to the state and the local municipality. In addition, a premium is paid to the social security system to finance public hospitals, medical treatment and various social benefits.Originally posted by scabstermooch:Your entire argument there is therefore really not much of an argument. Well, assuming that your example is based on fantasy of course...coz I haven;t heard of a developed country that taxes 48% of your salary...
The most important indirect tax ("indirekte skatt") is value added tax, VAT, which is a general tax levied on sales within the country and on import. VAT is levied on most goods and some services, and applies to all stages in the chain of production and distribution. Any person engaged in trade or business is required to register and to charge and pay VAT on goods he/she supplies. VAT on inputs purchased by the registrants is deductible in the VAT accounts. VAT is thus not a tax on the registrants but a tax on final consumption.
VAT is presently calculated at a rate of 12 to 24 per cent of net price.
All self-employed persons are obliged to add this tax to sales of goods and services; it is a punishable offence not paying this tax in Norway. Further information on value added tax is available from the Chief County Tax Inspector ("Fylkesskattesjefen").
Your employer in Norway is obliged to deduct tax from you wages before you are paid. Once you have found employment in Norway you must obtain a tax card from you local taxation office as soon as possible. Your employer and the taxation office will provide all necessary information on how to apply and what you must enclose with your application. The tax card states what percentage of your income your employer must deduct in tax. If you start work without a tax card, your employer is obliged to deduce 50 % tax. This is generally more than would be deducted from you wages if you had a tax card, but if you have paid too much tax, you will receive a refund in the spring or autumn of the following year when the tax assessments are completed.
http://www.norway.org.uk/policy/tax/tax.htm -
Top personal income tax rate in European nations:
France: 59%
Sweden: 56%
Belgium: 53.5%
Netherlands: 53%
Italy: 43%
Spain:45%
Germany: 42%
Ireland: 42%
Portugal: 40%
UK: 40%
Hungary: 38%
Czech Republic: 32%
Here's a global comparison of income tax: http://www.worldwide-tax.com/index.asp#partthree
In addition to personal income tax, many European countries such as Norway also impose additional VAT tax, church tax, social security insurance, wealth tax etc. -
The relevance of this example is questionable, since it applies specifically to people with no tax cards. Setting such a rate is obviously to discourage people from working with no tax cards rather than as a high tax rate applied to the general law-abiding population.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Your employer in Norway is obliged to deduct tax from you wages before you are paid. Once you have found employment in Norway you must obtain a tax card from you local taxation office as soon as possible. Your employer and the taxation office will provide all necessary information on how to apply and what you must enclose with your application. The tax card states what percentage of your income your employer must deduct in tax. If you start work without a tax card, your employer is obliged to deduce 50 % tax. This is generally more than would be deducted from you wages if you had a tax card, but if you have paid too much tax, you will receive a refund in the spring or autumn of the following year when the tax assessments are completed. -
Well and good, but is there any country that takes a full 48% of your income as Phoebie has described? Tax brackets are another matter altogether.Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Top personal income tax rate in European nations:
France: 59%
Sweden: 56%
Belgium: 53.5%
Netherlands: 53%
Italy: 43%
Spain:45%
Germany: 42%
Ireland: 42%
Portugal: 40%
UK: 40%
Hungary: 38%
Czech Republic: 32%
Here's a global comparison of income tax: http://www.worldwide-tax.com/index.asp#partthree
In addition to personal income tax, many European countries such as Norway also impose additional VAT tax, church tax, social security insurance, wealth tax etc.