Singapore stay or leave, leave ? where to go ?
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I wanna go Aust!!
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That's fine - don't go acting all hurt when what you say is disregarded as unsubstantiated nonsense then.Originally posted by Phoebie:but wait, I didn't mention Scandinavia in my post and I shall not disclose further
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hmmmm
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Top personal income tax rate in European nations:
France: 59%
Sweden: 56%
Belgium: 53.5%
Netherlands: 53%
Italy: 43%
Spain:45%
Germany: 42%
Ireland: 42%
Portugal: 40%
UK: 40%
Hungary: 38%
Czech Republic: 32%
i would sincerely like to know what are the terms and conditions that are abided to the income tax rate. Also are there any other form of tax paying mode whereby the government tapped in. We have to look at the country ways of getting revenue in the holistic way.
Singapore took a percentile out of your income, she also took a bit when you have a car COE insurance road tax etc, she also took abit from your increasing public transport fare, GST, maintanence charge, and a huge sum goes to CPF , medisave which you could only draw out approx 500 a month after you retire.
the country you quote are well developed europe country. how about NZ? Australia, US, maldive, north asia?? -
TS, leave ba.. go US.. bye n take care.
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I presume we are the lowest income tax is because
1. Housing for a pigeon hole is like quarter of a million to own
2. A crap piece of paper like COE already cost like 5 digits, don't for get it adds up together with a car can practically kill you
3. Medical is on your own and even so using CPF only limited to C an B2 wards you want better wards cough from your own pocket.
Other countries have higher personal income tax is because they have other problems like feeding the useless but its a trade off for a house and transportation are much more affordable. Moreover the petrol here is not subsidised other places have subsidies for their petrol.
End of the day is how you look at the whole picture if you are satisfied with here stay if not try to leave and don't come back.
No use complaining as nothing usually will be done.
If you in the low - mid level like me and you watch the show Finer Side of life by Dick Lee and the woman (can't remember her name) you get pissed as what the show gives me an impression that only if you can own the things they present in the show you are nothing. I'm so turned off by they show and the host as they are promoting those "elites" pigs as the cream of the crop in Singapore.
I would agree that I myself have a taste of sour grapes and i know my limitations as not able to get there so I choose to plan to move overseas at least there I can enjoy these so called finer things in life like a bigger house and a nicer car.
I did a little study on my own when i was working in Canada, a brand new Mazda RX-8 would cost like a Toyota Corolla in Singapore and a Honda Civic in Canada would cost like a Picanto here. Not mentioning an old BMW 5 series ok I rephrase a 2nd hand BMW would cost like the piece of COE paper that we all buy here. Your flat can get you a decent house with lawn and personal garage. If you move to a more rural area it gets you a few acres of land.
I weight the different pros and cons and do you know why all the Singaporeans that goes overseas refuse to come back? I think your guess are as good as mine. Higher income tax so what I can enjoy what i can never enjoy in Singapore.
But on a fair note its not Singapore's fault as we are lack of land so everything goes vertically instead of horizontally.
What ever the case people make a choice and stick with it, complaining will only cause more misery in yourself.
Cheers
Peace, Out -
Well, so what if we have a low tax rate?
It says nothing about our total cost of living or the quality of life we can have as a regular citizen holding a regular job - the former of which, by the way, is skyrocketing while the pay of an average salaried worker has remained fairly stagnant for about a decade despite our sparkling official statistics!
And what quality of life can we expect as a normal citizen in a country where the government acts as if its policies are the word of God, crushes anyone who dares suggest otherwise, then when something goes wrong it shifts the blame entirely onto its citizens.. telling us it's our fault, we're a bunch of whiners who should go solve our own problems instead of looking to them for solutions?
Singapore has become an adult playground for the minority rich at the expense of the lower-middle class majority, going against and even suppressing the will and thoughts of the majority. Is that what they call a long-term solution? Even if we are strong on the outside, what's going to stop our Nation from collapsing onto itself on the inside?
No way I'm gonna have my kids grow up here. Here they either become elitist, or "overassuming leeches".
Life is just not so black and white. It's a stalemate in Singapore... and it's time to move to a place with a soul. As for taxes ... money lost can be earned back. But not time. -
please get out moreOriginally posted by hocky:Actually no place can beat Singapore for cleanliness and safety.
Spore is not exactly clean, Sporeans are bunch of dirty ppl. even if its clean its coz theres lots of cleaners. give the cleaners 1 off day...thats it spore will be flood with Shits
Safety? ppl here are bunch of bo chaps ppl..see if u r attacked, no one would cares
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Originally posted by IronBandit:
No use complaining as nothing usually will be done.
If you in the low - mid level like me and you watch the show Finer Side of life by Dick Lee and the woman (can't remember her name) you get pissed as what the show gives me an impression that only if you can own the things they present in the show you are nothing. I'm so turned off by they show and the host as they are promoting those "elites" pigs as the cream of the crop in Singapore.
Yes, I'm turned off by the show as well. Our reality is more like "Beauty on a Budget" than "Finer Side"
I did a little study on my own when i was working in Canada, a brand new Mazda RX-8 would cost like a Toyota Corolla in Singapore and a Honda Civic in Canada would cost like a Picanto here. Not mentioning an old BMW 5 series ok I rephrase a 2nd hand BMW would cost like the piece of COE paper that we all buy here. Your flat can get you a decent house with lawn and personal garage. If you move to a more rural area it gets you a few acres of land.
I weight the different pros and cons and do you know why all the Singaporeans that goes overseas refuse to come back? I think your guess are as good as mine. Higher income tax so what I can enjoy what i can never enjoy in Singapore.
But on a fair note its not Singapore's fault as we are lack of land so everything goes vertically instead of horizontally.
What ever the case people make a choice and stick with it, complaining will only cause more misery in yourself.
The sad thing is, us Singaporeans usually don't see that until we live abroad ourselves.. We are continuously told we're getting the best and therefore we have no right to complain.. I think we'd be much more appreciative if our govt is at least very honest with us about this.
I do agree Singaporeans like to complain, largely due to the lack of empowerment of the people, because we feel we don't have the power to change things.. for example, we aren't even consulted for important policy or law changes, which can be sometimes implemented within 24 hours (wth!).. I see complaining as a good healthy sign. It means we aren't as complacent and "bo chup" as is generally perceived.
I'm pretty sure that if the govt is willing to come down from their godly perches high up on Mount Olympus, us commonfolk would be most happy to meet them halfway.
But.. as I said before in other posts, looking at the recent "elite" series of events, I'm not so confident of that. -
someday im goin to US to stay for awhile .. see if it suits me
i dont think i'll stay here forever -
Every nation imposes direct and indirect taxes. Take Norway as an example,Originally posted by lastfall:Singapore took a percentile out of your income, she also took a bit when you have a car COE insurance road tax etc, she also took abit from your increasing public transport fare, GST, maintanence charge, and a huge sum goes to CPF , medisave which you could only draw out approx 500 a month after you retire.
For direct taxes, the top effective marginal rates for various categories are as follows:
Wages, incl. employersÂ’ social security contribution: 54.3%
Wages, excl. employersÂ’ social security contribution: 47.8%
Dividends received by individual taxpayers (as percent of distributed dividends): 48.2%
As for indirect taxes, there are VAT(GST), green taxes etc. Thye VAT rate is 25% currently and there are various green taxes for polluting agents. For example, the green tax per ton of CO2 produced by petrol is 341%. The tax is built into the prices of petrol.
http://www.dep.no/fin/english/topics/p4500279/bn.html -
Oh com'on! that is because the salary scales is lower than those countries you are talking about too!Originally posted by Kinokuniya:Cost of living here is high because we are too used to low taxes and cheap goods, but if you go overseas you will find that in many countries taxes are even higher.
Instead of leaving, why not work harder and smarter to find a way around all this?
Every country has its pros and cons. If you leave because of a change in circumstances of the country, you will find yourself moving all over the world all your lie.
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if life gotta be so pathetic, then why live?Originally posted by Kinokuniya:It is possible to live almost entirely without debt, so long as you live within your means and spend on what is necessary with minimal pricey luxuries.
So you would like to move to other countries where GST/VAT is as high as 15%? -
that's not nonsense you monotonous phd holderOriginally posted by Gedanken:That's fine - don't go acting all hurt when what you say is disregarded as unsubstantiated nonsense then.
don't think just you have phd it means you know everything
don't use my figure as reference to the figure below to justify your claim further you phd holder. And wait, didn't you see there's some countries listed below that even take more than 48% income taxes? And if you claim I'm hurting then what are those figures that are more than 48% as stated below?Originally posted by oxford mushroom:Top personal income tax rate in European nations:
France: 59%
Sweden: 56%
Belgium: 53.5%
Netherlands: 53%
Italy: 43%
Spain:45%
Germany: 42%
Ireland: 42%
Portugal: 40%
UK: 40%
Hungary: 38%
Czech Republic: 32%
Here's a global comparison of income tax: http://www.worldwide-tax.com/index.asp#partthree
In addition to personal income tax, many European countries such as Norway also impose additional VAT tax, church tax, social security insurance, wealth tax etc.
from this it largely reflects that you do not know there's countries that charges more than 40% income taxesOriginally posted by Gedanken:Phoebe, please specify which country you're talking about. It doesn't sound like any I've come across.
you should get the facts right before attempting to challenge other forumers online using your so called physicological tactics or whichever. Don't try to defend yourself further when the facts are there. Just because I didn't state the country it doesn't mean you can use this to go around playing and use this to justify your claim further. It seems that you can only catch hold and use this to defend and justify yourself "phoebie refuse to state which country, and she only stated 48% and I'm going to use this to attack her" And just because you didn't see 48% in the listed countries as above it does not mean it's not a fact. And you don't have to stick to 48% as what I've mentioned. Is your mind rusty or robotic or computerized or mechanical or routine?
And also, The taxes does not necessary have to stick at 48% as what I've mentioned. Is it because you have memorized too much books so much that memorizing make your brain and mind go rusty or robotic? You're making a big fool of yourself in this thread you know. From the above quote it already seems or tells us that you do NOT know there's countries charging 40% and above income taxes, or is it because your salary are not high enough to qualify for income taxes thus you don't know?
I know you're going to retaliate back but I'm not going to get bothered by smart alec snob like you. It's a waste of my time to debate with someone like you who lives in a world of your own, and think you're superior just because you have a phd paper cert. Wait, one last advice for you - Don't think just because you have phd, you think you know everything
Frankly speaking I don't like to type these sentences out because it's a waste of my time replying to you snob. -
why all u idiots make a big deal about tax..the amount u earn here can be lower then the amount u can get overseas after TAX...u r paid peanuts here...i have friends who live in usa, working as software engineer, his pay is like 70K after tax, here how much u get stupid? even if ur tax is low so what! u r paid craps what
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Cause it is harder to die..Originally posted by blu_sky:if life gotta be so pathetic, then why live?
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How about CPF? Factor in the additional 20% now and you may see our income tax comparable to other european countries
One might argue and say that the 20% will be ours anyway and that employer contributes another 13%. While our CPF can be used to buy housing etc and that this amount of money will be ours ultimately, there is lesser flexibility and a smart investor is able to use this money and grow it at a rate higher than that within the CPF..
The only benefit I can see from our CPF is the extra employer contribution of 13% as well as the ability to use CPF for housing. But again when compared with our countries, are our housing comparable in pricing psf? -
Hear Hear to Phoebie and Oxford,Originally posted by Phoebie:from this it largely reflects that you do not know there's countries that charges more than 40% income taxes
you should get the facts right before attempting to challenge other forumers online using your so called physicological tactics or whichever. Don't try to defend yourself further when the facts are there. Just because I didn't state the country it doesn't mean you can use this to go around playing and use this to justify your claim further. It seems that you can only catch hold and use this to defend and justify yourself "phoebie refuse to state which country, and she only stated 48% and I'm going to use this to attack her" And just because you didn't see 48% in the listed countries as above it does not mean it's not a fact. And you don't have to stick to 48% as what I've mentioned. Is your mind rusty or robotic or computerized or mechanical or routine?
And also, The taxes does not necessary have to stick at 48% as what I've mentioned. Is it because you have memorized too much books so much that memorizing make your brain and mind go rusty or robotic? You're making a big fool of yourself in this thread you know. From the above quote it already seems or tells us that you do NOT know there's countries charging 40% and above income taxes, or is it because your salary are not high enough to qualify for income taxes thus you don't know?
I know you're going to retaliate back but I'm not going to get bothered by smart alec snob like you. It's a waste of my time to debate with someone like you who lives in a world of your own, and think you're superior just because you have a phd paper cert. Wait, one last advice for you - Don't think just because you have phd, you think you know everything
Frankly speaking I don't like to type these sentences out because it's a waste of my time replying to you snob.
No need to be anal with the details, Phoebie is just trying to make a point and I believe most of us agree she has a valid point i.e. that one cannot merely look at lower cost of living in itself. We need to take into consideration the taxes to be paid and correspondingly the services the state provides in arriving at the decision as to whether S'pore is really more expensive.
And for those of you who are not so good with your maths, the top bracket rate is absolutely critical, unless of course if you have absolutely no hope of breaching the top bracket. To illustrate the point, if 70% of your income is taxed at the top bracket (say 50%), the fact that the first 30% is taxed at some lower rate will not lessen the pinch! This I can testify to and also why Michael Schumacher (a german) is a tax resident in Monaco and not Germany. -
i too agree that cost of living is gettting higher and higher.. i was shock when the news report that GST will increase nx yr..
imagine all the things goes up.. they says that our salaries will goes up too.. but i doubt so, even if it is, we will only be getting another 100 bucks more but this means that we will be doing more work to get that pathetic pay so as to cope up with the rise of GST.
i noe the government is gd. when they announce this GST increase, at the same time they are also announcing that they will be helping out with the lower income pple.. but do they spare a though for middle income pple like us? where we are not getting any benefits from the gov cos we are not under the low income range, we are also not as rich as the high income pple where a little bit price increase to them is like peanuts.. but we still nid to pay taxes every yr, nid to cope with the high cost of living..
it not that i am condemnig the gov but sometimes i really hope that they will actually tik of us when they come out with all these plans.
the gov kip giving the civil servants so much bonus. their one yr bonus is equivalent to my 3 yrs bonus man.. all these money belong to the taxes that we working in private sector companies gave every yr.. they shoudl actually cut down on their bonus, cut down the salary of the minister..
sorry for complaining too much but i am really unhappy bout all these things that the gov had come out with.. if i earn enough, i will most prob spend the rest of my yrs in malaysia.. malaysia have what singapore have, the place is bigger and the hse is cheaper.. but i wun give up my citizenship.. -
Originally posted by Phoebie:
Do you not understand the concept of tax brackets? Oxford-Mushroom merely produced a list of the highest tax brackets in several European countries. They show merely how much is taxed on every dollar earnt over a set amount, not how much a person is taxed.
that's not nonsense you monotonous phd holder
don't think just you have phd it means you know everything
don't use my figure as reference to the figure below to justify your claim further you phd holder. And wait, didn't you see there's some countries listed below that even take more than 48% income taxes? And if you claim I'm hurting then what are those figures that are more than 48% as stated below?
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from this it largely reflects that you do not know there's countries that charges more than 40% income taxes
let's recap: You said,some other countries charge 10% GST, and in these countries, those who earn around 10k and above per month need to pay 48% income tax ...
You assertion is that in the as yet undisclosed country, if I take home $11k, the government takes away $5280 as income tax. As is clear, the list produced by oxford_mushroom in no way supports your assertion.
...those high earners may have negative impression "so what if I work hard and earn over tens of Ks per month, 48% of my salary will still go back to the govt....you should get the facts right before attempting to challenge other forumers online using your so called physicological tactics or whichever. Don't try to defend yourself further when the facts are there.
You have produced only unsubstantiated assertions, and no facts. -
She is making a point: that other countries have higher tax rates and that there are pros and cons to every country.Originally posted by bozo43:Hear Hear to Phoebie and Oxford,
No need to be anal with the details, Phoebie is just trying to make a point and I believe most of us agree she has a valid point i.e. that one cannot merely look at lower cost of living in itself. We need to take into consideration the taxes to be paid and correspondingly the services the state provides in arriving at the decision as to whether S'pore is really more expensive.
And for those of you who are not so good with your maths, the top bracket rate is absolutely critical, unless of course if you have absolutely no hope of breaching the top bracket. To illustrate the point, if 70% of your income is taxed at the top bracket (say 50%), the fact that the first 30% is taxed at some lower rate will not lessen the pinch! This I can testify to and also why Michael Schumacher (a german) is a tax resident in Monaco and not Germany.
However, the way she goes about substantiating her opinions is, frankly,
unethical and, I think, rather malicious.
She resorts to ad hominem attacks and in doing so tries to pass off as 'facts' things which seem to be mere fantasy.
There is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion. The problem comes when people tries to add weight to an opinion by citing dodgy 'facts'. There is a world of difference between 'i think Iraq is a dangerous country' and 'I think Iraq is dangerous because they are able to launch a Chemical and Biological attack on our cities within 45 minutes'. In both cases, the thrust of the argument is the same but the surely you see the difference.
Worse, when challenged on this point, she refuses to back down and resorts to more of the above! -
yes, go back to the govt and fund welfare. I didn't finish what I say earlier on. Because of what I didn't add it further initially and go into details, it creates opportunity for you and gedanken to justify your claims and retaliate backOriginally posted by scabstermooch:You have produced only unsubstantiated assertions, and no facts.
you can go on presume.
the reason why I don't like to put such facts in public forums, is because there'll bound to meet smart aleck snobs like you and alias gedanken who think you know everything. You must learn from your mistakes and learn and know new facts from what people post. Don't assume what you know is right. You don't have to be afraid to admit your own mistakes you know
Now you and gedanken learn and know new facts in other countries. Aren't you going to thank me and Oxford Mushroom for letting both of you knowing the facts?
I'll not reply you any further. It's a waste of my time replying to smart alecky pricks like you and gedanken -
Originally posted by scabstermooch:You have produced only unsubstantiated assertions, and no facts.
if still haven't gotten the point you must be quite thick. The point is tax brackets irregardless, top rate matters a damn lot, unless of course you earn very little. If you don't earn substantially more than the top bracket you aren't that smart either! -
Fact it...Other country is much better....
My aunt work as baby sitting....
WHen people bring baby to her..for one day ..
She earn 100us....
Just a job for auntie ....they earn so much..can u imagine...the money those people earn? -
Brother,Originally posted by scabstermooch:However, the way she goes about substantiating her opinions is, frankly,
unethical and, I think, rather malicious.
She resorts to ad hominem attacks and in doing so tries to pass off as 'facts' things which seem to be mere fantasy.
Worse, when challenged on this point, she refuses to back down and resorts to more of the above!
She was merely illustrating her point when she quoted the tax rates. So take it easy, we are not in "Contenders" and there is no need for anyone to "backdown".
Were not about to start a war on 48%, so I think she should be allowed to be liberal with the nitty gritty.