Singapore stay or leave, leave ? where to go ?
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Pride and ego do no good - they get in the way of seeing facts. Indeed, if you think I've made a mistake in any of my posts, I'm more than happy to take a look and see what's gone wrong if you highlight them. I do believe I've demonstrated a willingness to do that when you brought up the €60,264 issue, so hopefully that'll show that I mean what I'm saying.
I'm not quite sure why you bring up wanting peace - all we're doing is looking at a bunch of figures here and seeing what picture they paint. How is that contradictory to peace?
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go on debate with the long figures and your own "theories"Originally posted by Gedanken:Pride and ego do no good - they get in the way of seeing facts. Indeed, if you think I've made a mistake in any of my posts, I'm more than happy to take a look and see what's gone wrong.
I'm not quite sure why you bring up wanting peace - all we're doing is looking at a bunch of figures here and seeing what picture they paint. How does is that contradictory to peace?
over here locally amidst the hike of GST, I don't feel happy with the recent GST hikes either, and I believe nothing we say can help to reverse the hike
and thus I am here trying to comfort fellow folks living here by replying in simple words to Threadstarter's thread, that other countries have higher GST and much higher taxes
gedanken you don't have to go around retaliating do you know? By doing so you are indirectly creating further unhappiness and anguish to us -
Phoebe.....
You should be the one thinking getting out of Singapore darling but I doubt whether there would be a country willing to accept you.....
Singapore would be better off with one less types of you my dear... you seem to be narrow minded and unable to take criticism.
But alas have you heard of the saying " A slow boat to China"
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Right...I am not going to push the issue any more as I think that there is enough material for the merits of each side of the argument to be critically assessed.
Re the topic, I clearly want to leave Sg - perhaps for the UK or Canada.
My reasons are quite straight forward really...Some of them:
- I think the Singaporean citizenship is a burden. Of course, there are worse countries to be citizens of. That is, however, not the point. If there are better options, why should I not pursue them?
- I think there are better places than Singapore to raise a family.
- I want a car, a nice home (with room to swing a cat) and have enough left over to live comfortably without having to put in 14 hr days for the rest of my working life.
- I think having 4 distinct seasons makes life interesting and more invigorating.
- I do not like what i perceive to be the Singaporean mindset. Just one Eg. It seems to me that Singaporeans in general have a very narrow definition of success IE money and high-powered career. IMO, the successes of people leading full and rich (albeit not financially) lives are insufficiently acknowledged.
- I like the notion of starting overseas from scratch - without the benefit of familial support etc. Of course, there are advantages to that too - no support = no pressure as well. I am responsible for myself and am accountable to no one.
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Uhh, okay, I'll agree that taxes are higher in other countries. There's no disputing that one.Originally posted by Phoebie:go on debate with the long figures and your own "theories"
over here locally amidst the hike of GST, I don't feel happy with the recent GST hikes either, and I believe nothing we say can help to reverse the hike
and thus I am here trying to comfort fellow folks living here by replying to Threadstarter's thread, that other countries have higher GST and much higher taxes
gedanken you don't have to go around retaliating you know. By doing so you are indirectly creating further unhappiness and anguish to us, you know
It's a laudable goal to try and comfort people that things aren't so bad in Singapore, and along those lines I have already agreed with Kinokuniya on the first page of this thread that where one chooses to live is a matter of individual tastes.
However, does saying that things are worse elsewhere really mean that things are good in Singapore? Would it not be a more reasonable approach to highlight the advantages of living in Singapore, rather than the disadvantages of living elsewhere?
On top of that, it should be pretty obvious from my responses to other people on this thread that I have no issue with people disagreeing with me, as long as what they're saying is accurate. If I find that something is inaccurate, I'll question it, and there's no issue of me wanting to create unhappiness here. If anything, leading people to the wrong conclusion with inaccurate claims would later be a source of unhappiness for those who accept those claims without verification and act upon it, would it not?
As far as I'm concerned, this is a purely logical discussion - that's why I've brought up the figures and done the calculations. I don't see the need to get emotional about a mathematical matter. -
don't presume.Originally posted by malsing:Phoebe.....
You should be the one thinking getting out of Singapore darling but I doubt whether there would be a country willing to accept you.....
Singapore would be better off with one less types of you my dear... you seem to be narrow minded and unable to take criticism.
But alas have you heard of the saying " A slow boat to China"
And why should I leave singapore when all my assets, and family is here?
did you see how sharp the critisms are? if u were me, creating a simple post which I reply to TS hoping to comfort fellow folks amidst the recent announcement of GST hikes, and yet I get such topic digressing sharp critisms, playing with the two digits
tell me, will you be happy?
If I know this is the outcome (even though I knew there'll bound to be such alecs in public forums),
I'll jolly well keep quiet and keep this optimistic fact (about other countries vs here) to myself
so keep your mouth shut if you can't comfort fellow folks living in this city -
Why should I leave singapore when all my assets , and family is here?Originally posted by Phoebie:don't presume.
And why should I leave singapore when all my assets, and family is here?
did you see how sharp the critisms are? if u were me, creating a simple post which I reply to TS hoping to comfort fellow folks amidst the recent announcement of GST hikes, and yet I get such topic digressing sharp critisms, playing with the two digits
tell me, will you be happy?
If I know this is the outcome (even though I knew there'll bound to be such alecs in public forums),
I'll jolly well keep quiet and keep this optimistic fact (about other countries vs here) to myself
so keep your mouth shut if you can't comfort fellow folks living in this city
Answer to try an learn about other cultures and open your under developed mind.
all my assets
Answer Singapore is asset rich but cash poor
family is here
Answer stay in contact via the net
Quote if u were me Thank goodness I am not
tell me, will you be happy? YES I would if you left its Xmas come early lor -
digressing and childish reply you have especially the words brown in colourOriginally posted by malsing:Why should I leave singapore when all my assets , and family is here?
Answer to try an learn about other cultures and open your under developed mind.
all my assets
Answer Singapore is asset rich but cash poor
family is here
Answer stay in contact via the net
Quote if u were me Thank goodness I am not
tell me, will you be happy? YES I would if you left its Xmas come early lor
obviously you're nothing but a frog in the well
obviously you've been through nothing
don't you know assets come from cash or monthly installments?
oh wait, I've forgetten that the secondary schools are having holidays now
from your tactless and digressing replies I assume it's either you've not been to certain stages in life, or living off your parents' money, or you're simply still a school kid now
it's degrading for me to reply to someone like you also -
Originally posted by Phoebie:digressing reply you have especially the words brown in colour
obviously you're nothing but a frog in the well
obviously you've been through nothing
don't you know assets come from cash or monthly installments?
oh wait, I've forgetten that the secondary schools are having holidays now
from your tactless and digressing replies I assume it's either you've not been to certain stages in life, or living off your parents' money, or you're simply still a school kid now
it's degrading for me to reply to someone like you also
frog in the well
Prince Charming
monthly installments?
Credit
you're simply still a school kid now
If you only knew
degrading for me to reply to someone like you also
Well Phoebe how low can one go
You have sunk low this time by replying you dug your own hole dear lower yourself
Be Mrs Claus and give me an early Xmas present sell up and get out -
Back on the topic -
Singapore puts a very low value on its own citizens... for a supposed "first world country", we have little say in how matters are run in the country and no independent bodies to balance out the power.
We have very poor workers' rights. There are still countless mindless cases of discrimination.. where locals are penalized for getting pregnant, for getting married, turning 40.. and local job applicants are turned away for the same reasons as well..
Alot of "improvements" in Singapore are done on the surface, but rising costs still hit the lower to middle class hardest.. sparkly statistics waved here and there but little of it is felt on the ground..
Tax in foreign countries, I can live with. Having no say in how the country's run and yet being penalized for problems caused by flawed policies .... no. Still no signs that govt attitudes might improve anytime soon.. -
Originally posted by malsing:Phoebe.....
You should be the one thinking getting out of Singapore darling but I doubt whether there would be a country willing to accept you.....
Singapore would be better off with one less types of you my dear... you seem to be narrow minded and unable to take criticism.
But alas have you heard of the saying " A slow boat to China" Originally posted by Phoebie:don't presume.
And why should I leave singapore when all my assets, and family is here?
did you see how sharp the critisms are? if u were me, creating a simple post which I reply to TS hoping to comfort fellow folks amidst the recent announcement of GST hikes, and yet I get such topic digressing sharp critisms, playing with the two digits
tell me, will you be happy?
If I know this is the outcome (even though I knew there'll bound to be such alecs in public forums),
I'll jolly well keep quiet and keep this optimistic fact (about other countries vs here) to myself
so keep your mouth shut if you can't comfort fellow folks living in this city
malsing you still haven't answer my questionOriginally posted by malsing:
frog in the well
Prince Charming
monthly installments?
Credit
you're simply still a school kid now
If you only knew
degrading for me to reply to someone like you also
Well Phoebe how low can one go
You have sunk low this time by replying you dug your own hole dear lower yourself
Be Mrs Claus and give me an early Xmas present sell up and get out
you are slapping your own face
and living on your parents' money
I know you have fun flaming here
I don't want to entertain you liao
and I won't bother to get angry by your obnoxious and digressing replies
and you don't have to reply me the answer, cause I know you'll never be able to answer it or answer truly -
Someone's clearly not been able to push their point across, and is firing broadsides after another.
Yet the barn door seems intact.
I recall asking for a country. If you can give one country, then everyone here will call it quits because it is simple justification at work.
If you think it's just all fun and games, why participate in the first place. You want jest? Go to Bar. This topic is not elementary, nor is it a jimjam session. -
I know you're referring to me andOriginally posted by LazerLordz:Someone's clearly not been able to push their point across, and is firing broadsides after another.
Yet the barn door seems intact.
I recall asking for a country. If you can give one country, then everyone here will call it quits because it is simple justification at work.
If you think it's just all fun and games, why participate in the first place. You want jest? Go to Bar. This topic is not elementary, nor is it a jimjam session.
I'm going to repeat this again -
I don't see there's a crucial need to go into details supporting the facts. This is not a contender or exam
I DO NOT want to name the country on public forum, it's because it's sensitive, and people will have negative impression of it once the name is out
why are you all so eager to know the name of the country? If you really want to know which countries charges over 40% taxes that much, you can read with reference of what oxford mushroom had posted initially
I tell you, I reply to TS is because I hope to let fellow folks here know that other countries' GST and taxes are much more higher, hoping to comfort them amidst the recent announcement of hike of GST over here, and hope that they'll think in a more optimistic way to feel better
and instead what I get? Flamings from guys like scabstermooch, gedanken
It doesn't pay to be good, and if I know the flamings turn out to be this way, I'll rather keep my fingers off my laptop's keyboard in the first place, to prevent myself from replying this thread
maybe I shouldn't have stated 48% taxes so clearly, I should have just state 40% taxes and above. If I do this in my first reply to this thread initially, you guys will have nothing to challenge me
and I don't think this is fun and games. Not fun at all. This is a serious topic.
I know one against five aint easy for me. But I'm doing this to justify my goodwill and facts initially.
I've learnt from a mistake - To keep my fingers off my laptop whenever I come across such threads, and just sit by and watch
if know some sensitive facts which people may not know, best is to keep quiet and not to type out in public forums
I hate arguing debates and flamings. A big waste of my time
Now I shall keep quiet with my facts, and let you all win, ok? -
If you are so interested in keeping that nation's reputation intact, fine.
And for the last time, can you stop referring to everyone who disagrees with you as proud, arrogant, hubris-packing or any other derogatory term?It's not very nice at all.
You're just equally guilty of passing judgement and unfairly painting everyone BUT you as narcissistic fools who are out to skewer this oh-so-fragile unnamed nation of yours, and I humbly apologise if I thought you were one of those people who could engage in logical debate, and not let sensitivity of data rule the course...
Maybe I was wrong in thinking you're one of the nicer chaps on the forum.
Gee. I've better things to do with my life than to discuss what is a flame war and what is a legitimate concern, or reply to a broadcasted fact.
[okay, let's just say we have differing viewpoints, and I am not going to spend time pursuing this issue here] -
why don't you guys just look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world....there are countries with higher tax rates than 48%
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Originally posted by scabstermooch:
u dont give money to ur parents one ah?u r responsible to urself, what about ur parents?
- I like the notion of starting overseas from scratch - without the benefit of familial support etc. Of course, there are advantages to that too - no support = no pressure as well. I am responsible for myself and am accountable to no one.
[/b] -
there are always some ppl that does so!Originally posted by valentinoo:u dont give money to ur parents one ah?u r responsible to urself, what about ur parents? -
I disagree. First, there's no such thing as supporting the facts - facts by definition are self-evident and therefore support themselves. What you are trying to do here is support a claim.Originally posted by Phoebie:I don't see there's a crucial need to go into details supporting the facts. This is not a contender or exam
If you don't support a claim with facts, it leaves the door open for saying anything one pleases. That being the case, I could say that anybody could move to a certain country and buy a mansion with a few Ferraris to fill the garage. Would you not want me to back up such a claim by at least naming the country?
Again, wrong. I read what oxford posted, worked the figures according to the most highly taxed country in his list and showed the workings here, and what he posted does not support what you said. If there's a country with even higher taxes, oxford's post does not show what country it is.Originally posted by Phoebie:why are you all so eager to know the name of the country? If you really want to know which countries charges over 40% taxes that much, you can read with reference of what oxford mushroom had posted initially
First, your mistake is not stating such a figure. Your mistake is being vague and evasive about this particular country, and then in complete contradiction being very definite about such a country existing.Originally posted by Phoebie:maybe I shouldn't have stated 48% taxes so clearly, I should have just state 40% taxes and above. If I do this in my first reply to this thread initially, you guys will have nothing to challenge me
...
and I don't think this is fun and games. Not fun at all. This is a serious topic.
If you're saying that this is not fun and games, well and good. If we are getting serious about this, we need to check and ensure that all assertions are accurate and substantiated by facts and figures. In light of that, saying 48% at one moment and then randomly changing it to 40% is just not logical.
It's not you against five or any number of people. It's you against the facts, and the facts are telling a different story from you.Originally posted by Phoebie:I know one against five aint easy for me. But I'm doing this to justify my goodwill and facts initially. -
Skid, we've been through that - look at the calculations I posted on page 4 of this thread and you'll see that the highest tax rate is not an accurate reflection of the overall amount of tax that you end up paying.Originally posted by skid:why don't you guys just look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world....there are countries with higher tax rates than 48% -
Japan comes to mind.Originally posted by hocky:Actually no place can beat Singapore for cleanliness and safety. -
firstly, someone clearly do not believe and do not know there's country charging 48%, and therefore plays with the fact of 48% when he thinks he disagree with itOriginally posted by Gedanken:It's not you against five or any number of people. It's you against the facts, and the facts are telling a different story from you.
now, he's playing with the 10k (used as an example (didn't he see the word "around"? I should have added in the words "lets say for example around" cause someone clearly doesn't understand simple and clear English) in my first reply to thread ) when the 48% fact is out
he simply grap any currency and try to convert and do his sums
and the sader part is, he doesn't even know which country belong to 48%
and he continues to presume
continue with your mind games to comfort yourself gedanken
I'm not going to get bothered by you again
I'll just keep quiet with the fact of the actual country, and continue to let you presume, and let you win ok? -
LOLLLLLLLLLLOriginally posted by Gedanken:Again, wrong. I read what oxford posted, worked the figures according to the most highly taxed country in his list and showed the workings here, and what he posted does not support what you said. If there's a country with even higher taxes, oxford's post does not show what country it is , what a sad case. Obviously you didn't know that 59% actually belong to Denmark
you should have visited the url oxford mushroom posted
you just calculate base on what the examples oxford mushroom posted in his thread
you should have also visit the url which he posted
you better don't drag oxford mushroom into this debate
gedanken technique number 4: when he is defeated in debates, he drag an innocent party in to defend himself
obviously gedaken has nothing more to defend himself, thus he lock himself in digging out silly things to defend himself again and again
ok ok you win with your "clever assume, presume and defend"
I'll just keep quiet and laugh loudly behind My Laptop -
anyway, I come to this forum to chit chat, relax and help to comfort other fourmers whenever I can
I do not come here to engage in flame wars, and not to have debates or pointless debates especially with someone as thick as gedanken
is gedanken too free? or want to comfort himself, thus resort to using silly debates in such threads to comfort and destress himself?
and I don't like to debate
I just want peace among all -
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- So it it now 40% or 48%?Originally posted by Phoebie:firstly, someone clearly do not believe and do not know there's country charging 48%, and therefore plays with the fact of 48% when he thinks he disagree with it
now, he's playing with the 10k (used as an example (didn't he see the word "around"? I should have added in the words "lets say for example around" cause someone clearly doesn't understand simple and clear English) in my first reply to thread ) when the 48% fact is out
he simply grap any currency and try to convert and do his sums
and the sader part is, he doesn't even know which country belong to 48%
and he continues to presume
continue with your mind games to comfort yourself gedanken
I'm not going to get bothered by you again
- I'll just keep quiet with the fact of the actual country, and continue to let you presume, and let you win ok?
- Are you now changing your mind about 10K as well?
- So is Denmark the country you had in mind? What would people have to say about Denmark that's so terrible?
- Why do you say I'm dragging oxford in when you're the one who said that all I had to do was look at what he posted?
- How is my using oxford's figures attacking him?
- Is it a question of me not knowing what this 48% country is, or is it a question of you not knowing?
- If you're the one claiming to know, why don't you just prove it by naming the country?
- Given that any country that's mentioned will have soem criticism levelled against it, how is this country any different that it needs protection by you?
- If this was such a sensitive issue, why mention that country at all in the first place?
- What's there to win (although if you provided some supporting information everybody would win by knowing that little bit more)?
I'm not presuming anything, but everything you say raises questions, and that list above grows with every reply that you make. If I presumed anything, I wouldn't see the need for asking these questions, would I?