BE careful the next time you transfer money using an ATM
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BE careful the next time you transfer money using an ATM.
Punch in the wrong number and it may be the last time you see your money.
It won't help even if you contact the bank immediately.
This is because the bank needs the consent of the person the money went to before it can reinstate it to your account.
If the recipient cannot be contacted, the bank won't transfer the money back to you.
Mr Kenneth Phua, 33, a sales manager, learnt this the hard way - losing $1,480 to a stranger.
He had wanted to transfer the amount from his POSB savings account to his DBS Cashline account on 20 Sep.
He was leaving on a week-long business trip that day and had used an ATM at Changi Airport Terminal 2.
DISTRACTED
Said Mr Phua: 'When I was about to complete the transfer, I got a phone call and was distracted.
'I ended up pressing 00 instead of 77 for the last two digits of my account.'
He did not realise his mistake even when the account number flashed on the screen and he was asked to confirm the transfer.
After the transaction was completed, he looked at the receipt and found out he had transferred the money into some other account.
'I called the bank's hotline immediately and told the officer about the mistake,' said Mr Phua.
'I also asked for the money to be reinstated to my account. She said she was unable to do that and advised me to go to the nearest DBS branch to fill up some documents.'
But Mr Phua had to board the plane within half an hour. So he told the officer that he would do it when he returned from his trip.
Mr Phua came back on 27 Sep and on the same day, he went to the DBS branch at Hougang Central.
He said: 'To my surprise, the bank officer told me that they needed the consent of the other account holder before they could reinstate the funds into my account.'
The next day, the bank officer informed Mr Phua that they were unable to reach the account holder after numerous phone calls and had sent out a letter to inform the person.
Mr Phua was then asked to wait seven working days for the other party to respond.
'I called the bank officer to check the status and every time, he would say the other party had not responded,' said Mr Phua.
'I was told by the bank that the account holder had been making deposits into the account, which means this is not a dormant account.'
But the bank was still unable to contact the account holder.
Then on 18 Oct, Mr Phua received a letter from DBS which stated: 'As we are unable to obtain the consent of the account holder to return the funds, we are sorry that we could not assist you further on this matter.'
Mr Phua has made a police report.
If it can be shown that the account holder has seen the letter from the bank or knows that the money was wrongly transferred, he or she can be charged with theft.
So why can't the bank transfer the money back to Mr Phua's account if it was informed that the transaction was a mistake?
A DBS spokesman said the money had been transferred under Mr Phua's authorisation.
Said the spokesman: 'Though he may claim to have made an error, the bank does not really know.
'It is therefore prudent and proper that the transferee's (recipient's) consent be first obtained before debiting his account.'
The DBS spokesman added that the bank had tried contacting the account holder by phone several times, but there was no answer.
LETTER
The bank had also sent out a letter asking for the account holder's consent to return the money to Mr Phua. But there was no response to that too.
DBS does not have figures for the number of customers who claim they have made mistaken transfers. -
A CHECK with two other local banks - OCBC and UOB - showed that they also require an account holder's consent before they can debit money in such a case.
A UOB spokesman said that when account holders make mistakes in transferring money, the consent of the recipient is required for the transaction to be reversed.
The bank would assist the customer by contacting the recipient for permission.
OCBC's head of delivery, Mr Patrick Chew, said: 'Banks cannot legally or unilaterally act on one customer's instructions to debit another customer's account.
'We have to be mindful of our responsibility and duty towards all customers' accounts.'
But what about the account holder who received Mr Phua's money by mistake? Is this a case of finders keepers, losers weepers?
Criminal lawyer Kertar Singh, 58, said that there is criminal intent if the recipient knowingly keeps the money.
Said Mr Singh: 'If it can be proven that the person is not the legitimate recipient, and that he used or kept the money even though he knew it was not his, he would be committing theft.'
And the long arm of the law can reach such a person.
'The police would be able to get the recipient's details from the bank to conduct their investigations,' said Mr Singh -
what sort of bullshlt is that????
if someone transferred money to wrong acct, SURELY there are records of fund transfer for both the giver and recipient.
i.e. money out (giver) and money in (recipient).
So, since the money is issued from the giver, surely he can take it back, to return to the initial situation.
How about THOSE NUMEROUS TIMES WHEN DBS or other banks key in wrong values (i.e. extra money to our accounts)???!!!! Their wrong accounting put in more money to our account means we can keep the money???
THEY ALSO UNILATERALLY DEDUCT AWAY THE WRONGLY KEYED IN MONEY WAT!!! -
so when transferring $ must dd confirm before transfer.
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bo bian one wat, cause it's hard to prove u transfer wrongly.Originally posted by nightzip:what sort of bullshlt is that????
if someone transferred money to wrong acct, SURELY there are records of fund transfer for both the giver and recipient.
i.e. money out (giver) and money in (recipient).
So, since the money is issued from the giver, surely he can take it back, to return to the initial situation.
How about THOSE NUMEROUS TIMES WHEN DBS or other banks key in wrong values (i.e. extra money to our accounts)???!!!! Their wrong accounting put in more money to our account means we can keep the money???
THEY ALSO UNILATERALLY DEDUCT AWAY THE WRONGLY KEYED IN MONEY WAT!!!
Imagine this, u buy something from someone on yahoo auction. u meet up with him, transfer the money to his account, show him the receipt. After getting the goods, u immediately call the bank to transfer back. Cannot rite?
of course the guy getting the unlawful money is damn kuai lan also lah, dun pick up call and dun reply -
that is why i prefer to use cold hard cash.
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I think it was last yr, one old couple called the press and made a complaint about a bank transferred the money in and out of his account without his consent. Apparently, that was not his money. But he kicked up a big fuss and let the whole world know.
Banks have this policy is also to protect themselves.
Always double check before you make any transfer. -
That's why I always park my money in the refrigerator.Originally posted by digicharat:that is why i prefer to use cold hard cash. 
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they would contact the account holder first.Originally posted by nightzip:what sort of bullshlt is that????
if someone transferred money to wrong acct, SURELY there are records of fund transfer for both the giver and recipient.
i.e. money out (giver) and money in (recipient).
So, since the money is issued from the giver, surely he can take it back, to return to the initial situation.
How about THOSE NUMEROUS TIMES WHEN DBS or other banks key in wrong values (i.e. extra money to our accounts)???!!!! Their wrong accounting put in more money to our account means we can keep the money???
THEY ALSO UNILATERALLY DEDUCT AWAY THE WRONGLY KEYED IN MONEY WAT!!!
Did u ever kena before? As in money was credited into your acc and then debited out?
Even if u did, it's not your money wat.
It's only right to return to the owner. -
actually posb/dbs transfer $$$ is not a 1 step thing... u hv to key in account n amount then u still hv the change to check the account no before completing the transaction so all this can be prevented by checking all the details before confirm lo...
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I find those who've made a big hoo-ha out of such matters rather dumb. The bank is not authorized to transfer sums as and when they liked.
Since he've made a police report, it's now up to the police to investigate. By writing in to the press, he's just making himself seem dump and to think he's a businessman? -
if you ask me...i wouldn't be able to tell the difference between having $1000 more in my bank compared to having a $1000 less...
and if u would to send me letters..i would thought you are some scamming company or soemthing... -
his own fault
who ask him dun check the acct no. 5 times before confirming
banks are not responsible for his parkinsons -
why did he make the transfer minutes before he was scheduled to fly? why didnt he double-check the account number before confirming the transfer? why did he choose to take a call when he was doing a transfer?
the bank aside, he was asking for trouble!!!
such issues are not uncommon!! -
Serve him right for doing things last minute & also being so careless.Originally posted by dragg:why did he make the transfer minutes before he was scheduled to fly? why didnt he double-check the account number before confirming the transfer? why did he choose to take a call when he was doing a transfer?
the bank aside, he was asking for trouble!!!
such issues are not uncommon!!
The best way is to write a cheque & drop it in the quick cheque deposit box -
Bloody stupid banks run by a bunch of incompetent idiots.
I transfer money through DBS and POSB all the time and every time I do that I curse them.
You know why?
IP Address: 207.210.80.242 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)
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Web Site Title: Welcome - sgForums.com :: Singapore's Online Discussion Network
You see 207.210.80.242 right on top? That is the address of sgforums.com
Did you type 207.210.80.242 at the address bar? Or course not, you are human. Only computers remember information like 207.210.80.242
Back to transferring money.
You key in the account number of the recipient.
Then they ask you please confirm that you are transferring to this account number.
WTF. Why can't they display the name of the account holder as well?
When I go to neighboring 3rd world countries, they will display the names as well as the account number and ask you to confirm.
It is not like the ATM was invented yesterday. The banks are protected by the MIW allowing them to earn billions. Because they are protected, they can scr*w us and refuse to spend some money to rectify the situation. -
because we are always different from others.Originally posted by onceinabluemoon:Bloody stupid banks run by a bunch of incompetent idiots.
I transfer money through DBS and POSB all the time and every time I do that I curse them.
You know why?
IP Address: 207.210.80.242 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)
IP Location: US(UNITED STATES)-GEORGIA-ATLANTA
Record Type: Domain Name
Server Type: Other 1
Lock Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Web Site Status: Active
DMOZ 1 listings
Y! Directory: see listings
Web Site Title: Welcome - sgForums.com :: Singapore's Online Discussion Network
You see 207.210.80.242 right on top? That is the address of sgforums.com
Did you type 207.210.80.242 at the address bar? Or course not, you are human. Only computers remember information like 207.210.80.242
Back to transferring money.
You key in the account number of the recipient.
Then they ask you please confirm that you are transferring to this account number.
WTF. Why can't they display the name of the account holder as well?
When I go to neighboring 3rd world countries, they will display the names as well as the account number and ask you to confirm.
It is not like the ATM was invented yesterday. The banks are protected by the MIW allowing them to earn billions. Because they are protected, they can scr*w us and refuse to spend some money to rectify the situation. -
you are dam_n right! these banks never improve their services, only know how to take money only...Originally posted by onceinabluemoon:Bloody stupid banks run by a bunch of incompetent idiots.
I transfer money through DBS and POSB all the time and every time I do that I curse them.
You know why?
IP Address: 207.210.80.242 (ARIN & RIPE IP search)
IP Location: US(UNITED STATES)-GEORGIA-ATLANTA
Record Type: Domain Name
Server Type: Other 1
Lock Status: REGISTRAR-LOCK
Web Site Status: Active
DMOZ 1 listings
Y! Directory: see listings
Web Site Title: Welcome - sgForums.com :: Singapore's Online Discussion Network
You see 207.210.80.242 right on top? That is the address of sgforums.com
Did you type 207.210.80.242 at the address bar? Or course not, you are human. Only computers remember information like 207.210.80.242
Back to transferring money.
You key in the account number of the recipient.
Then they ask you please confirm that you are transferring to this account number.
WTF. Why can't they display the name of the account holder as well?
When I go to neighboring 3rd world countries, they will display the names as well as the account number and ask you to confirm.
It is not like the ATM was invented yesterday. The banks are protected by the MIW allowing them to earn billions. Because they are protected, they can scr*w us and refuse to spend some money to rectify the situation. -
Originally posted by nightzip:you are dam_n right! these banks never improve their services, only know how to take money only...
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next time use cheque
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Internet banking sama sama also...so long as money is transferred to a 'wrong' acc, you are SCREWED BIG TIME.
Banks have the right to protect their own interest. However, Banks owe it to their clients to ensure that money which is wrongly transferred be retured back to the right client.
A 'non-response' excuse is not acceptable by any standards. So too is the bank accessing a bank acc without the acc owner's consent. Where's the security in that if any Tom Dick and Harry can get in and out of your acc with impunity and answer later?
Which is why prevention is always better than the cure.
Anyway, most accs have varying degrees of acc numbers to avoid this precise issue. Usually if the number you keyed in is wrong, the ATM will respond with an 'invalid' error.
If one different number got you another person's acc, then you are really SUAY..
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a good and stupid way to solve the problem is to transfer the ammount dollar by dollar.
so if i have 100 , i would need to bank transfer 100 times.
Well, you would only lose 1$ if you transfer to the wrong accnt. -
I think the current procedure is correct. It should not be for the banks to be judge and jury here. If there is duress or other forms of foul play involved, then it should be for the legal system to decide.Originally posted by nightzip:what sort of bullshlt is that????
if someone transferred money to wrong acct, SURELY there are records of fund transfer for both the giver and recipient.
i.e. money out (giver) and money in (recipient).
So, since the money is issued from the giver, surely he can take it back, to return to the initial situation.
How about THOSE NUMEROUS TIMES WHEN DBS or other banks key in wrong values (i.e. extra money to our accounts)???!!!! Their wrong accounting put in more money to our account means we can keep the money???
THEY ALSO UNILATERALLY DEDUCT AWAY THE WRONGLY KEYED IN MONEY WAT!!!
In this case, He made a mistake and he expects the bank to step in and sort out his mistake. How is the bank able to judge if this is a genuine mistake or if he is involved in something dodgy? -
That would imo be an invasion of privacy. If I were dealing with someone online I certainly would not want him to be able to get details like my name on a whim. And in this age of identity theft, the less you give away the better.Originally posted by onceinabluemoon:You key in the account number of the recipient.
Then they ask you please confirm that you are transferring to this account number.
WTF. Why can't they display the name of the account holder as well? -
When transferring money to someone, showing the transferor the name of the person receiving the money is not "a whim" is it?Originally posted by scabstermooch:That would imo be an invasion of privacy. If I were dealing with someone online I certainly would not want him to be able to get details like my name on a whim. And in this age of identity theft, the less you give away the better.
You need to insert your card and the bank can know who is the one doing the transfer. Furthermore for your argument to work, you need to give examples of how it is dangerous when people know your name and account number. This kind of information is freely available.