Singapore to hang Nigerian trafficker, rejects new appeal.
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And your stupidity must be lauded no less, for in your case, it's not simply an inability to comprehend that sets you apart from idiots.Originally posted by fymk:I applaud your lousy comprehension. Did I not focus on speaking about the plight of drug addict's family and those impacted by the drug addict's crimes.
I would not doubt my own intelligence since there are more than 10 countries willing to impose the death penalty on drug traffickers. Singapore is just one of them. If it was a dumbass idea , it would be just Singapore hanging drug traffickers - nowhere else.
Singapore's rationale for the mandatory death penalty for drug traffickers is to deter anyone from establishing Singapore as a hub for drug trafficking AS WELL AS protecting its most precious resources - humans.
Sure you did speak about the plight of everyone remotely affected by drugs - I'm still waiting for you to make a case of drugs being the single biggest vice known to humanity though(are you daft to the extent of not being able to comprehend this?) For all the tall tales and short stories you have espoused, I've barely seen anything that makes any sense beyond the simple fact that narcotics should be illegal and outlawed.
Going by your logic, there must be more dumbasses on the planet than idiots like you since more constitutions do not mete out death penalties for drug-related offences than those that do.Originally posted by fymk:
Right, so drug trafficking is a crime against society, yet murder/robbery/kidnapping are merely crimes against individuals? What bollocks are you on about? You're certainly doing well in terms of re-defining stupidity...
Yes Murder is different from Illicit drug trade
Murder -> a victim or a few -> affect family and loved ones -> heinous -> a life for a life or more.
Illicit drug trafficking -> addicts -> crimes to feed the habit , from robbery to murder -> societal costs -> healthcare costs to society when young ignorant kids take drugs and overdose and become vegetables -> some die -> High cost to the families -> organised drug cartels making Singapore unsafe -> economic costs because who wants to invest in an unsafe place when there are other cheaper unsafe places to deal with -> [b] that is the impact in a simplistic sense.
Which is more heinous? Crime against one person or crime against society? Both come with crimal intentions -murderers have some personal or monetary benefit . Drug traffickers have monetary benefit . These benefits form the intentions to commit a crime.
Just so if you bring knife manufacturers or car manufacturers again into the argument . They have no intention of commiting a crime. They have the intention of making life convenient for law abiding citizens. The only criminal thing they could do is to make the item unsafe for the purpose of profit but that opens them to civil and criminal laws which protect the rights of their consumers. No legal manufacturing company wants that on their hands.
[/b]
If what you said made the remotest sense, there wouldn't be a need for the Brazilian government(who view kidnapping as no less serious than narcotics - in fact, much more serious) to take an excessively harsh stance on kidnapping(which would be akin to how Singapore regard narcotics) or most governments in the EU to regard murder as a more serious offence than narcotics for that matter. So try telling me they buy the same drivel as you do that narcotics constitute the most pernicious crime known to man. -
Fair enough? I don't recall anything about "fair enough" being a part of a bargain from some "self-righteous" individual who'd boasted about "eating ass" should his groundless self-assertion be disproved.Originally posted by Ignatiaus:YOU ARE BLIND! @_@
I already said fair enough that you named one!
The other line you failed to real through on its entirety! LRN2READ NUB
Oooooohh! Barking with a inferior intellect! False Bravado! *Trembles*
Last i checked you failed to stop the hanging with your MIGHTY INTELLECT so erm... yeah...whatever...
You win ok?
So much for being blind - or is selective amnesia getting the better of you? -
Fymk i think we can't dissuade his MIGHTY INTELLECT so i think lets give it a rest. By calling your arguments myopic,warped,etc when he can't even see past his own even though your views are completely valid & recognized by most of the general public.
Trying to get him to see the big picture is like wrestling a pig in mud.
And.... HE LIKES IT!
Walesa ok whatever you win.. Ok? Want a Internet Tough Guy award? Huh? Do you? Want a cookie too? Like some fries with that?
In my closing statement. Whatever you say whether valid or not is pointless as the system will not change for you. No matter how much you cry!
So...
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some quick facts..
The London-based Amnesty International called earlier for clemency, maintaining the judge who convicted the Nigerian appears to have 'accepted that he might not have realized that the substance he was carrying was heroin.'
Amnesty claims Singapore has the highest rate of executions per capita in the world. (but is it the safest? No.)
Only representatives of the Nigerian Embassy showed up to offer any comfort. (they didnt allow anyone else to visit him) 'The embassy is standing by him,' said Ucheha Eke, who has visited on several occasions. -
Go talk to the legislators if you feel that illicit drug trafficking is not as bad as murder . You have that right. Quit whinging about living in an equivalent of a North Korean regime. At least you have the right to leave and migrate elsewhere unlike the north koreans if you do not agree with the law or policies.Originally posted by walesa:
quote:
And your stupidity must be lauded no less, for in your case, it's not simply an inability to comprehend that sets you apart from idiots.
Sure you did speak about the plight of everyone remotely affected by drugs - I'm still waiting for you to make a case of drugs being the single biggest vice known to humanity though(are you daft to the extent of not being able to comprehend this?) For all the tall tales and short stories you have espoused, I've barely seen anything that makes any sense beyond the simple fact that narcotics should be illegal and outlawed.
Going by your logic, there must be more dumbasses on the planet than idiots like you since more constitutions do not mete out death penalties for drug-related offences than those that do. [/quote]
If you are so clever - why not tell me what have you done about drugs instead of playing a word war with me to make yourself seem clever? You only debate one point out but did not integrate your argument with the rest. It is a such clever tactic to call an opponent stupid just using one point to attack but it serves no purpose.
I see no need to prove that illicit drugs are being the single biggest vice known too humanity. I seen the damages myself up front and expressed my concerns using real examples . You call that tall tales - well once again , you prove that you cannot accept all views.
Organised drug syndicates and drug related societal crimes such as robbery to feed the habit , family breakdown etc comes along for ride once tough penalties are not imposed . Why not compare Singapore's drug related crime rate with constitutions which do not implement the death penalty. I don't see much crime happening in Singapore.
Don't twist my words the other way - there are people who feel that the drug penalty is appropriate and there are people who don't. I belong to the first group . That doesn't mean that those who belong to the latter are dumbasses. You are fully entitled to your views .
May I point out that having experiences is a good thing and applying my opinions to them is also better than having a view without seeing what happens the other side.
I bet that you will wish for all drug traffickers to hang if you have a kid who is addicted to drugs.
[quote]
quote:
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Originally posted by fymk:
Yes Murder is different from Illicit drug trade
Murder -> a victim or a few -> affect family and loved ones -> heinous -> a life for a life or more.
Illicit drug trafficking -> addicts -> crimes to feed the habit , from robbery to murder -> societal costs -> healthcare costs to society when young ignorant kids take drugs and overdose and become vegetables -> some die -> High cost to the families -> organised drug cartels making Singapore unsafe -> economic costs because who wants to invest in an unsafe place when there are other cheaper unsafe places to deal with -> that is the impact in a simplistic sense.
Which is more heinous? Crime against one person or crime against society? Both come with crimal intentions -murderers have some personal or monetary benefit . Drug traffickers have monetary benefit . These benefits form the intentions to commit a crime.
Just so if you bring knife manufacturers or car manufacturers again into the argument . They have no intention of commiting a crime. They have the intention of making life convenient for law abiding citizens. The only criminal thing they could do is to make the item unsafe for the purpose of profit but that opens them to civil and criminal laws which protect the rights of their consumers. No legal manufacturing company wants that on their hands.
------------------------------------------------------------------------Right, so drug trafficking is a crime against society, yet murder/robbery/kidnapping are merely crimes against individuals? What bollocks are you on about? You're certainly doing well in terms of re-defining stupidity...
If what you said made the remotest sense, there wouldn't be a need for the Brazilian government(who view kidnapping as no less serious than narcotics - in fact, much more serious) to take an excessively harsh stance on kidnapping(which would be akin to how Singapore regard narcotics) or most governments in the EU to regard murder as a more serious offence than narcotics for that matter. So try telling me they buy the same drivel as you do that narcotics constitute the most pernicious crime known to man.
Awwww....all the insults from you ...do you really think you can make me feel stupid? Nope because I got many ways to go to other countries legally and secure their permanent residency (Australia is where I permanently reside now) instead of being so unhappy like you to the point that you unfairly compared Singapore to North Korea.
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Maybe eating your ass might help nourish your intellect somewhat to facilitate your reasoning better...just maybe.Originally posted by Ignatiaus:Fymk i think we can't dissuade his MIGHTY INTELLECT so i think lets give it a rest. By calling your arguments myopic,warped,etc when he can't even see past his own even though your views are completely valid & recognized by most of the general public.
Trying to get him to see the big picture is like wrestling a pig in mud.
And.... HE LIKES IT!
Walesa ok whatever you win.. Ok? Want a Internet Tough Guy award? Huh? Do you? Want a cookie too? Like some fries with that?
In my closing statement. Whatever you say whether valid or not is pointless as the system will not change for you. No matter how much you cry!
So... -
Yeah, I'm still waiting for you to explain how your grandest of experiences in terms of dealing with drugs has the slightest credit in your claiming that narcotics should be regarded as the most pernicious crime known to man. Why should playing "a word war" with someone whose views are as myopic as humanly imaginable even remotely endorse my intellect? I'm still trying to make sense of what you're saying(to no avail admittedly, given the myopic reasonings which are far from balanced and sensible), mind!Originally posted by fymk:If you are so clever - why not tell me what have you done about drugs instead of playing a word war with me to make yourself seem clever? You only debate one point out but did not integrate your argument with the rest. It is a such clever tactic to call an opponent stupid just using one point to attack but it serves no purpose.
I see no need to prove that illicit drugs are being the single biggest vice known too humanity. I seen the damages myself up front and expressed my concerns using real examples . You call that tall tales - well once again , you prove that you cannot accept all views.
I bet that you will wish for all drug traffickers to hang if you have a kid who is addicted to drugs.
Your last sentence just drives home what you've struggled to prove all along - granted, but if I were mugged by an armed robber or subjected to a botched kidnapping attempt, I too would clamour for the death penalty for robbery and kidnapping. So what's the fuss about drugs being that big a deal(ie.being more serious than robbery, kidnapping or other forms of serious crime)? If anything, that more than illustrates how you've done nothing besides championing a cause on the basis of your "grand" experiences. So where's your sense of perspective on matters if you were so "tolerant" of divergent views?
Granted, there're people who feel the death penalty is appropriate and those who don't - you belong to the former and I belong to the latter. So what's the drivel about you trying to tell me about my BS views with examples that are effectively a bigger load of BS? And since you're on the issue of consensus and argue that, Singapore's death penalty imposed on drug traffickers is a reflection of a widespread consensus that people support such harsh measures, so what's so hard about you coming to terms with the fact that more people are subjected to constitutions which do not mete out the death penalty for drug traffickers than those that do? By extension, it's merely a reflection of a larger consensus on a macro scale that more people on this planet do not support the death penalty for drug trafficking than those that do. So am I twisting your words or are you simply overlooking the subtle point you've been so forcefully and vehemently trying to drive home?Originally posted by fymk:Don't twist my words the other way - there are people who feel that the drug penalty is appropriate and there are people who don't. I belong to the first group . That doesn't mean that those who belong to the latter are dumbasses. You are fully entitled to your views .
May I point out that having experiences is a good thing and applying my opinions to them is also better than having a view without seeing what happens the other side.
Sure, you've had your experiences and I'm sure you've seen so much you probably know what constitutes the most pernicious vice in society that your views are irrefutable - in fact, just about everyone else who disagrees must be an inexperienced sod. So much for some experience... -
Yes I think certain views are BS and I say it out. It is my view. If you feel my view is BS - that is your perogative. I like to ask where the rights of the victims are because the constituents of the constitions you are refering to as those which abolish death penalty - ask alot of questions abour the rights of the victims too..Originally posted by walesa:Granted, there're people who feel the death penalty is appropriate and those who don't - you belong to the former and I belong to the latter. So what's the drivel about you trying to tell me about my BS views with examples that are effectively a bigger load of BS?
And like I say , comparing Singapore to North Korean regime isn't fair and a load of BS again . I might have migrated out of Singapore because I didn't agree with certain government policies but that doesn't mean that I will fervently compare Singapore to a regime which squashes all rights of their citizens. It is just not fair to the country.
Experience is important - it brings lessons learnt and things to improve on or comment on. Recognised in work , in life and in all countries. Better to argue on practical experience than theoretical knowledge. If I have it , I use it and I used it.
Singapore had the experience of drug addictions prior to the legislation of stringent laws. Singapore is not like many other constitutions who can afford assaults on their community or economy through drug related crime. It's geographical locality makes it easy to be established as a hub to distribute drugs. It is also small and mostly dependent on human resources.
You have not addressed the above crucial point for your argument. That is the argument the legislators are using. Instead you focus on comparing the moral comparisons of drug trafficking to murder.
I do not have a myopic version - you do - your arguments have not factored in anything except the moral comparisons of drug trafficking vs murder. You only chose to attack on one point and then proceed to personal attacks on individual's intelligence if they fail or refuse or find it senseless to get back to one point.
At least I don't go around making personal attacks on individuals like calling them stupid or imbeciles when they disagree with my views. That type of attitude is so dismissive of other people's views. Doesn't help you unless you are the dictator. -
Originally Posted by fymk:
I have already proven in my links that cigarette addiction can be equally addictive as drugs. Whether they maintain their mental capacity or not is a moot point. I can also say cigarette smokers cause more harm because of non smokers that inhale smoke from the cigarettes. If drugs are more cheaper than cigarettes, who is to say cigarette smokers might not commit crimes
Nicotine VS crack, morphine or heroin
Do you maintain your mental capacity while high on crack/morphine or cocaine? NO .
Do you maintain your mental capacity while smoking cigarettes? YES.
to get the money for cigarettes or even turn to drugs as an alternative?Originally Posted by fymk:
This still does not change the fact that drug users are also at fault. Whether they are rebellious or not is again, a completely moot point. I was rebellious too, yet i don't go and do harmful things when i know it has no benefit to me, only harm just for the sake of looking cool, which is imo, the most stupid reason that exist in this world. Even if the dealth penalty is gone, I am sure that the drug traffickers/abusers will more or less remain around the same figures since singapore police are very efficient. Not my fault if the police in your country suck and people like you can only think of the dealth
Some teenagers are headstrong even though their parents try their best to parent them. I was a teenager once - it was my way or the highway.
Are you going to lock up your teenager if your teenager is rebellious and throw away the key?
penalty as a problem solver. Maybe you shld suggest to your own country government to have dealth penalty for all kinds of crimes
Originally posted by fymk:
when arguing in favor of the death penalty, you hint that singapore isnt a democratic country. Against the dealth penalty. Singapore could do no wrong eh?
You are innocent until proven guilty. You have a right to recourse and appeal. The accused have a right to legal counsel.
Did I say lock up single part of your luggage...oh yes I did.
If the luggage presents a risk - do not even bring it.
My luggage have security tags on each one of them so if it is tempered with - I will know and I have the proof to say it is tempered with.
At least Singapore does not exercise a Guantanamo Bay type of system under the US Patriot Act.
Singapore is a sovereign nation . Most foreigners will know Singapore have stringent drug laws. If they are unaware of it , the airline will make sure they are. Why should Singapore bow down to foreign powers?
all of sudden its innocent till proven guilty and having a right to appeal? Julian Bohl anyone?
Sorry to say, but not everyone comes to singapore and goes into super alert mode like you with security tags and all. Just because you have security tags on your luggage and being alert and all doesnt mean others will have the same mindset as you. And i don't think i need to highlight what i said in my previous post abt the nigerian escorted back to johannsburg. Foreigners
don't step into Singapore and all of sudden become Mr-I-know-it-all.
Singapore sovereignty shld be respected, but we must also remember that ties with other countries are equally important and Singapore is not the only country that revolves around this world. Any backlash singapore suffers is going to have an effect on singaporeans directly/indirectly, not some foreigner here who want to show off her Australian PR and let us know she
got many ways to go to other countries legally. -
since when did getting sabotaged equates to trafficking and engaging in recreation drug use?Originally posted by Ignatiaus:If a person chooses to traffic drugs or engage in recreational drug use willingly. That person no longer qualifys for the Innocent status
If you say if someone gets sabotaged by your reasoning, there won't be a trafficking problem, there will be a sabotage problem.
How many people in Singapore have ever contested to being innocent in such a case? Why would a trafficker risk huge money in putting drugs in a bag of a person he doesn't know.
Even if lets say the person was innocent in the first place when he got sabotaged. What argument would you have to defend him? What evidence will you provide to the courts to save this person?
which is why i said earlier why dealth penalty should be abolished for drug trafficking. It is so easy to sabotage someone, but hard to prove one's innocence.Originally posted by Ignatiaus:
read this : http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/pm-warns-of-nguyen-fallout/2005/11/27/1133026330296.html
We may have gotten backlash from Australian citizens before but not the Govt.
They can't stay angry at us for upholding our own law.
So far no Governmental system has been outraged directly by our Laws because if they contest such an issue, they'll know it'll bite them back in the ass when our own citizen is convicted over in their own country if we choose to contest it.
Its each other's policy not to question each country's laws for the sake of diplomatic ties. -
Amusing - another one personally attacking when they cannot win an argument. Don't assume that I am a foreigner - I was born in Singapore and I still hold a valid Singaporean passport . I lived in Singapore for most of my life too.Originally posted by circleofwinter:when arguing in favor of the death penalty, you hint that singapore isnt a democratic country. Against the dealth penalty. Singapore could do no wrong eh? all of sudden its innocent till proven guilty and having a right to appeal? Julian Bohl anyone?
Sorry to say, but not everyone comes to singapore and goes into super alert mode like you with security tags and all. Just because you have security tags on your luggage and being alert and all doesnt mean others will have the same mindset as you. And i don't think i need to highlight what i said in my previous post abt the nigerian escorted back to johannsburg. Foreigners
don't step into Singapore and all of sudden become Mr-I-know-it-all.
Singapore sovereignty shld be respected, but we must also remember that ties with other countries are equally important and Singapore is not the only country that revolves around this world. Any backlash singapore suffers is going to have an effect on singaporeans directly/indirectly, not some foreigner here who want to show off her Australian PR and let us know she
got many ways to go to other countries legally.
No one is asking a person to stay in Singapore if he does not like the laws of the country , unlike North Korea that will shoot any 'deserter" dead. I am not saying Singapore is perfect - it has its flaws as with every country.
Since when did I hint Singapore was not democratic? I said majority votes win and I also added later that it is unfair to compare Singapore to North Korean ( they shoot people who want to leave) .
Ties are important . Hanging a drug trafficker won't backlash on Singaporeans. Is Singapore going to let every tom dick and harry go just because of their influential country ? If Singapore is, then it will be a sad day. Remember there are other countries like Malaysia and Brunei which uphold the death penalty for drug trafficking too.
As for the so called backlash ....When they hung Van - did Australia lynch me? No. Did they boycott Singaporean businesses in Australia - No. Did the public really care save for the few of his friends and supporters - No. Even the war veterans protested and politicians walked out when they attempted to hold a minute's silence for his death. The basis for the walkout - HE IS A CRIMINAL AND IT IS AN INSULT TO THOSE WHO DIED IN THE SERVICE OF AUSTRALIA . I had aussie colleagues who said that Singapore helped them with the final solution. I didn't have colleagues insulting me at all.
Check wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nguyen_Tuong_Van#_note-4 . I don't see the Australians vigorously objecting. Do you?
A survey by Morgan Poll released on 30 November 2005 showed 47 % of Australians believed Nguyen should be executed, 46 % said the death penalty should not be carried out, and 7 % were undecided. Oh wow , not a 100% objected.
It is on the Australian principle that they have to protect a citizen of theirs from the death penalty and I respect their principle. It is on Singapore's principles that it is a sovereign country has to carry out its laws. I did also raised a concern about how the Misuse of Drugs Act in regards to its definition but I still support a mandatory death sentence . Just because the news tell you Australia is making noise doesn't mean crap - bilateral ties will go down and come up again.
If you want to worry about bilateral ties and backlashes between country - go worry about Temasek and Shin Corp's issue in Thailand.
Oh yeah the flight route was an objection because of the economics involved with Qantas - Australia has a right to protect its air routes and Australia is protective. If they let SIA take the route- Qantas will lose its advantage. Not because of some dead drug trafficker.
Bullocks - As for people not knowing - well those who fly into Singapore will be fully aware of the fact that Singapore has the death penalty for drug traffickers courtesy of the airliner going into Singapore. Want to go into Singapore or any country? Know the laws and protect yourself. Like no girl is going to fly into Saudi Arabia wearing a bikini top and a mini skirt. -
Originally posted by circleofwinter:
Right and you would want addicts going high and flying off buildings because they think they are a bird.
quote:
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Originally Posted by fymk:
Nicotine VS crack, morphine or heroin
Do you maintain your mental capacity while high on crack/morphine or cocaine? NO .
Do you maintain your mental capacity while smoking cigarettes? YES.
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I have already proven in my links that cigarette addiction can be equally addictive as drugs. Whether they maintain their mental capacity or not is a moot point. I can also say cigarette smokers cause more harm because of non smokers that inhale smoke from the cigarettes. If drugs are more cheaper than cigarettes, who is to say cigarette smokers might not commit crimes
to get the money for cigarettes or even turn to drugs as an alternative?
It's lung cancer that smoking is associated with - it is too long term to determine the CAUSATION unlike the immediate hallucogenic effects of the illicit drug addicts. Note the word ' associated '. In epidemiological terms , those famous cohort studies do not establish a causal effect only an associative effect. Just that politicians and policy makers choose to INFER in the way that smoking causes lung cancer. No one has ever done a randomised control on smoking which can prove that smoking ACTUALLY CAUSES lung cancer or heart disease because it is too unethical. Look at the actual studies, words they use are strongly suggestive , strongly associated . A game of probabilities if you will.
Don't tell me you are an expert on adolescent psychology or sociology. Teenagers make stupid decisions sometimes . Not all parents will have the gift of a perfectly obedient child.
quote:
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Originally Posted by fymk:
Some teenagers are headstrong even though their parents try their best to parent them. I was a teenager once - it was my way or the highway.
Are you going to lock up your teenager if your teenager is rebellious and throw away the key?
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This still does not change the fact that drug users are also at fault. Whether they are rebellious or not is again, a completely moot point. I was rebellious too, yet i don't go and do harmful things when i know it has no benefit to me, only harm just for the sake of looking cool, which is imo, the most stupid reason that exist in this world. Even if the dealth penalty is gone, I am sure that the drug traffickers/abusers will more or less remain around the same figures since singapore police are very efficient. Not my fault if the police in your country suck and people like you can only think of the dealth
penalty as a problem solver. Maybe you shld suggest to your own country government to have dealth penalty for all kinds of crimes
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Oh wow. Singaporean police force is not bad actually. I just appreciate the safety of Singapore after living in Australia. However Australia has better career opportunities- so one has to make a choice. Actually it would be great if they hung murderers, drug traffickers etc but it is not my place to voice it out.
Singapore already have the death penalty . Mind you that the definition of trafficker and abuser is clearly determined through the weight of the drugs in possession. Those who have less than a certain weight is jailed. Those who have more than a certain weight is hung. What's the problem? -
Originally posted by fymk:
Well, your views are daft, myopic and constitute nothing more than a load of BS and of course it makes sense to suggest anyone intelligent enough to espouse such drivel should be regarded as a senseless idiot - you don't like it, tough! And who cares why you emigrated from Singapore? (more story-telling to detract from the geist of this argument?)
Yes I think certain views are BS and I say it out. It is my view. If you feel my view is BS - that is your perogative. I like to ask where the rights of the victims are because the constituents of the constitions you are refering to as those which abolish death penalty - ask alot of questions abour the rights of the victims too..
And like I say , comparing Singapore to North Korean regime isn't fair and a load of BS again . I might have migrated out of Singapore because I didn't agree with certain government policies but that doesn't mean that I will fervently compare Singapore to a regime which squashes all rights of their citizens. It is just not fair to the country.
Experience is important - it brings lessons learnt and things to improve on or comment on. Recognised in work , in life and in all countries. Better to argue on practical experience than theoretical knowledge. If I have it , I use it and I used it.
Singapore had the experience of drug addictions prior to the legislation of stringent laws. Singapore is not like many other constitutions who can afford assaults on their community or economy through drug related crime. It's geographical locality makes it easy to be established as a hub to distribute drugs. It is also small and mostly dependent on human resources.
You have not addressed the above crucial point for your argument. That is the argument the legislators are using. Instead you focus on comparing the moral comparisons of drug trafficking to murder.
[b] I do not have a myopic version - you do - your arguments have not factored in anything except the moral comparisons of drug trafficking vs murder. You only chose to attack on one point and then proceed to personal attacks on individual's intelligence if they fail or refuse or find it senseless to get back to one point.
At least I don't go around making personal attacks on individuals like calling them stupid or imbeciles when they disagree with my views. That type of attitude is so dismissive of other people's views. Doesn't help you unless you are the dictator.
[/b]
Sure, comparing Singapore and DPRK isn't fair - you sure have some wonderful imagination besides a lack of fundamental capacity to comprehend something simple. The only parallel I drew between the 2 regimes is the claim that both regimes claim to be democratic - needless to say, your wonderfully inept capacity to comprehend an argument first sustained by you has done wonders to empower your creativity to link the narcotic measures adopted by the respective regimes(instead of the comparison being nothing more than the fact both claim to be democracies) in a feeble attempt to derail what you'd never addressed to begin with.
Obviously, it comes as little surprise anything regarded as remotely disdainful constitutes a "personal attack" - typical of a BS, self-opinionated empty-vessel. What's new, really? And what constitutes personal attacks, imbecile? It's hardly senseless to label an idiot who espouses nothing but senseless BS an imbecile, is it? Oops, and that's just my opinion and my prerogative at work.
I'll address my point when you start talking sense - and I'm still waiting for you to conjure up your experiences to even make a remotely credible case of how narcotics should irrefutably warrant being considered as the most pernicious vice known to man... -
Originally posted by fymk:
Another succinct example of a self-righteous imbecile at work - it sure is amusing what a nincompoop devoid of the slightest ability to reason can come up with...oops, and it's called a "personal attack", isn't it?
[b] Amusing - another one personally attacking when they cannot win an argument. Don't assume that I am a foreigner - I was born in Singapore and I still hold a valid Singaporean passport . I lived in Singapore for most of my life too.
[/b]
So, I suppose something derogatory made against you is known as a "personal attack", while those made by you against others is an "opinion"...that's a load of amazing drivel, really. -
Please please.....no fight.....I will give you all free meat pao to eat....who want?
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Originally posted by walesa:
Note the bold. Those remarks form a personal attack . Not surprising really , considering that some think they are ACTUALLY superior to others and put others down like the get out of my elite uncaring face girl . I am amazed that with your so called superior intelligence - you have to result to refering me as "imbecile", "stupid" and now "nincompoop", instead of debating my points.
Another succinct example of a self-righteous imbecile at work - it sure is amusing what a nincompoop devoid of the slightest ability to reason can come up with...oops, and it's called a "personal attack", isn't it?
So, I suppose something derogatory made against you is known as a "personal attack", while those made by you against others is an "opinion"...that's a load of amazing drivel, really.
" At the end of the day, it's only the no-hopers who need to put you down to boost their self-esteem ; exceptional/successful people wouldn't even have the time, much less find the need, to put you down. " Find that familiar? -
Like I said many times,the illicit drug trade are fuelled by criminal drug syndicates. Illicit Drugs destroy lives and have a negative impact on society through crime, economic and health reasons. Forget your myopic focus on just one miserable point of view to be proven to a person such as yourself.Originally posted by walesa:I'll address my point when you start talking sense - and I'm still waiting for you to conjure up your experiences to even make a remotely credible case of how narcotics should irrefutably warrant being considered as the most pernicious vice known to man...
Why don't you TELL ME how should Singapore control the drug trade without getting established as a drug trafficking hub if the use of the mandatory death penalty is abolished. Instead of running around one point and doing personal attacks as namecalling, let's look at other mitigating factors.
If you think you have a better idea - let's all hear it. If not, then I wonder who is the person that has a real problem while yabbing away without experiencing what illicit drugs can do . Give me something constructive instead of referring me to as an imbecile, stupid, idiot etc . It serves no purpose. I don't mind if you say that my views are BS as long as you give me a valid rationale - which to date has not occurred. I have no qualms discussing anything as long as it is within reason.
As for regime comparison - you open the door , I just follow it and decided to detract from it to let you know that you have an option of migrating if you seem so adamant against Singaporean laws. What's the problem? -
First, calling you a foreigner isnt a personal attack, its a FACT. Once you chose to migrate to another country and decides to permanently reside there, you are a foreigner. Whether you used to be a singaporean or not is a completely moot point. Working there and coming back to Singapore is different from being an Australian PR. Why keep the Singapore passport and call yourself
a citizen of singapore when you decide to leave this country for good? when it comes to name calling, you aren't much better yourselfOriginally posted by fymk:
maybe if you start being forgetful, you might want to check out old threads and see which part did you call someone else an idiot
Amnesty International only yabbers like a retard [/b]
Yes singapore police force is efficient and guess what? we don't have racists burning cars and chanting slogans over here even though singapore does not have the death penalty for racists. An efficient police force isn't going to suck because of capital punishment, and the same applies vice versa. Drug users, ultimately are at fault as well for choosing to take drugs even when most of them knew its wrong and harmful.
I didn't post a reply to this thread just to win an argument. Rather i am posting my own opinion what i feel about certain things. I don't think i have to repeat myself or reply to irrelevant stuff. I think its a sad thing tho, if someone actually thinks they can win over at the internet. -
ALOT of people in here think like that especially those people who deride our country.Originally posted by circleofwinter:. I think its a sad thing tho, if someone actually thinks they can win over at the internet. -
How about this?
Don't hang the person. Just inject him, cutting his life here on Earth short.
Hanging is such a torturous death.
Close face with cloth. (right?)
Then open floor...
then the person drops...
and struggle...
out of breath..
die.
Imagine no more hangings...no more electrocutions.
These 2 ways are just evil and dark. Barbaric...YES.
Just a death penalty by lethal injection. -
Right , I do not like it when people result to subterfuge and hit another area to win either . If you had bothered to read what I written - I was directing my argument at Walesa who seems to like to compare Singapore to DPRK .Originally posted by circleofwinter:First, calling you a foreigner isnt a personal attack, its a FACT. Once you chose to migrate to another country and decides to permanently reside there, you are a foreigner. Whether you used to be a singaporean or not is a completely moot point. Working there and coming back to Singapore is different from being an Australian PR. Why keep the Singapore passport and call yourself
a citizen of singapore when you decide to leave this country for good? when it comes to name calling, you aren't much better yourself
maybe if you start being forgetful, you might want to check out old threads and see which part did you call someone else an idiot
Yes singapore police force is efficient and guess what? we don't have racists burning cars and chanting slogans over here even though singapore does not have the death penalty for racists. An efficient police force isn't going to suck because of capital punishment, and the same applies vice versa. Drug users, ultimately are at fault as well for choosing to take drugs even when most of them knew its wrong and harmful.
I didn't post a reply to this thread just to win an argument. Rather i am posting my own opinion what i feel about certain things. I don't think i have to repeat myself or reply to irrelevant stuff. I think its a sad thing tho, if someone actually thinks they can win over at the internet.
As for you, I still hold Singaporean citizenship . Got a problem with overseas Singaporeans?
It is not about winning . You failed to address my points about the hypocrisy of AI . Walesa just wants to argue on a singular point.
It is very seldom I launch a personal attack unless the other person starts the ball rolling. However with Walesa , he is constant and persistent . Then again both of you are in the same boat - you do not address my points but you choose to hit somewhere else .
ROFL . You can think what you like about other countries in a country whose laws protect you well and shelter you while you whine about the same law which gives you the safety. I live in another country so I can laugh at your ignorance of how other countries are really like to make such baseless assumptions.
You are free to post your opinion and I am free to post mine. Why don't you just address what I commented on then? Don't bring AI in . I am not playing to win in this argument - I am just waiting to see how many insults Walesa can throw at me besides his usual vocabulary of "imbecile, idiot etc" . None of you did manage to point out anything except focus on one miserable point .....OHHhh hanging is so evil .
Come back to the topic then . Any great ideas on how to control drugs from coming in and preventing criminal drug syndicates from estabilshing themselves in Singapore if the death penalty is abolished and maintaining the low drug consumption rates?
Oh ya why not address your point on bilateral relations souring between Singapore and Australia then over one dead drug trafficker? oh wait , I already refuted it for you . So what are you talking about death penalty affecting Singapore's relations with other countries?
Malaysia once used to jail drug traffickers but after they started hanging them - their illicit drug consumption dropped. -
Think cannulation of the veins- they have to use big bore for the lethal drugs to flow through. Big needle in the veinsOriginally posted by caver:How about this?
Don't hang the person. Just inject him, cutting his life here on Earth short.
Hanging is such a torturous death.
Close face with cloth. (right?)
Then open floor...
then the person drops...
and struggle...
out of breath..
die.
Imagine no more hangings...no more electrocutions.
These 2 ways are just evil and dark. Barbaric...YES.
Just a death penalty by lethal injection.
Before they die , some actually convulse violently for a few minutes. There is a cocktail mixture to that. Can't remember what it was.
Hanging by long drop is a faster way to die . It severs the cervical spine , snap and go - 14 secs . -
Originally posted by fymk:
Oops, I do need to retract my remarks indeed. As a matter of fact, an idiot might be a more appropriate description of your ineptitude than nincompoop or moron would ever do justice.
Note the bold. Those remarks form a personal attack . Not surprising really , considering that some think they are ACTUALLY superior to others and put others down like the get out of my elite uncaring face girl . I am amazed that with your so called superior intelligence - you have to result to refering me as "imbecile", "stupid" and now "nincompoop", instead of debating my points.
" At the end of the day, it's only the [b] no-hopers who need to put you down to boost their self-esteem ; exceptional/successful people wouldn't even have the time, much less find the need, to put you down. " Find that familiar?
[/b]
At the end of the day, I can only sustain a debate in a manner that warrants a response from someone eternally bent on evading the main issue and knows nothing but to vehemently force a biased and unsubstantiated viewpoint? So much for giving stupidity a new definition... -
Originally posted by fymk:
You should be amazed at how able you're at failing to grasp the geist of the whole argument. It's incredible really - a fantastic display of guile in being self-delusional.
Like I said many times,the illicit drug trade are fuelled by criminal drug syndicates. Illicit Drugs destroy lives and have a negative impact on society through crime, economic and health reasons. Forget your myopic focus on just one miserable point of view to be proven to a person such as yourself.
[b]Why don't you TELL ME how should Singapore control the drug trade without getting established as a drug trafficking hub if the use of the mandatory death penalty is abolished. Instead of running around one point and doing personal attacks as namecalling, let's look at other mitigating factors.
If you think you have a better idea - let's all hear it. If not, then I wonder who is the person that has a real problem while yabbing away without experiencing what illicit drugs can do . Give me something constructive instead of referring me to as an imbecile, stupid, idiot etc . It serves no purpose. I don't mind if you say that my views are BS as long as you give me a valid rationale - which to date has not occurred. I have no qualms discussing anything as long as it is within reason.
As for regime comparison - you open the door , I just follow it and decided to detract from it to let you know that you have an option of migrating if you seem so adamant against Singaporean laws. What's the problem? [/b]
Like I'd said, I'd address your point when you've addressed mine - so get cracking, push home your case of arguing for the penalties of narcotics to be justifiably the harshest so as to reflect its status as the most pernicious crime known to man. Until then, you can continue with your hopeless rants and specious polemics to ram home what you perceive to be the irrefutable "truth" - that said, it comes as little surprise a myopic idiot struggles to even make a remote case at anything, doesn't it?
Regime comparison? I opened the door? Sure I did, I certainly opened the door for you to ram home your stupidity in making senseless diatribes that warrant as much logic as a lunatic's. Oh yeah, and I don't recall refuting your claim too - I'm sure Singapore is a democracy just as the DPRK is. They're just practising two diverse brands of democracy, that's all. So much for someone who's supposedly "tolerant" of divergent views who espouses as much sense with abstract examples so remote to render them sensible even to imbeciles... -
Originally posted by walesa:
The death penalty is imposed for the most serious of crimes, which sends a strong signal to would-be offenders to deter them from committing such crimes as drug trafficking, murder and use of firearms.
Like I'd said, I'd address your point when you've addressed mine - so get cracking, [b]push home your case of arguing for the penalties of narcotics to be justifiably the harshest so as to reflect its status as the most pernicious crime known to man. Until then, you can continue with your hopeless rants and specious polemics to ram home what you perceive to be the irrefutable "truth" - that said, it comes as little surprise a myopic idiot struggles to even make a remote case at anything, doesn't it?
[/b]
Singapore weigh the right to life of the convicted against the rights of victims and the right of the community to live and work in peace and security .It is somewhat similar to the principles of HammurabiÂ’s Law which almost laws in the world are enacted on. Like I said time and time again , illicit drugs are connected to organised crime syndicates and they impact on the economic, health and security of the society. Bigger impact reaps bigger penalties. That is the justification.
Singapore has an internationally well known zero tolerance policy towards ILLICIT DRUGS. No one is asking anyone to smuggle drugs into Singapore and choosing death by that action.
You can think what you like. Now I am just waiting on the news of the pending execution of 2 of the Bali 9 drug smugglers in Indonesia. Permanent Solution given to Australia - 2 less criminals , courtesy of Indonesia.