A good motivation to share with u today ....
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Why not ask him directly instead of suspecting? But to me, mind includes everything that is not the body. Unless you tell me your body will change into an orgasm giving piece of thing in heaven, but your mind doesn't change.Originally posted by Cystaire:That's your opinion.
I suspect he would say that spiritual preparation is different from integrating mind and body.
Anyway a little off-topic, in reality (as in evidence-based reality) there is no separation between "spirit", "mind" and "body". These labels relate to the various organizational aspects of a living system.
For example it is clear that mind is affected by body. Like alcohol or drug consumption. -
Interesting... in this case I am not going to be picky about logic, but just asking if the story has any relevance to the morals it intends to teach.Originally posted by fatslob:TS just demonstrated the problem I have with Christian 'reasoning'... I never found anything I heard from Christians enlightening or really meaningful, just self referential and arbitrary. Maybe that's why you really need 'faith', cos logic cannot apply.
If I wanted to impress you about the importance of spiritual preparation, then the hired help should go all the way - sleep soundly without any physical preparation, and watch the storm miss them.
That'll teach them lousy materialists how pointless physical preparation is! Hah!
Yet the hired help not only spends much time in physical preparation, he doesn't even utter a semblance of a prayer. -
OK I'll leave it at that.Originally posted by Eric Cartman:Why not ask him directly instead of suspecting? But to me, mind includes everything that is not the body. Unless you tell me your body will change into an orgasm giving piece of thing in heaven, but your mind doesn't change.
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You wroteOriginally posted by Cystaire:
My friend, YOU are one of those people who would find this story inspiring!!!
"God helps those who help themselves"???
I am quite disappointed.
Needless to say, if you can't find a problem with this statement, you won't be able to see the glaring holes in the motivational story.
The moral of your story does not relate to the story itself.
You have not integrated mind with body (Ken Wilbur's fulcrum 6). You can physically tie down everything, but you can still be worrying because you are paranoid. You may have done what you needed to do but you can still be paranoid. This is where "peace in the middle of storms" mentioned by the TS comes in.
To prepare for the storm, the hired worker physically tied down everything so that stuff won't get blown away.
This we can all agree.
But you recommend holding the hand of an invisible superbeing to prepare for a storm.
Does that mean you don't have to physically tie everything down because god will do it?
If you still have to do it anyway, why do you need to hold his hand? -
As mentioned earlier the concept of "integrating" mind with body is meaningless to me because mind is simply an aspect of body (mental functions derived from brain activity) and from another organizational level vice versa (subjective interpretation of body image derived from mental function).Originally posted by Eric Cartman:You have not integrated mind with body (Ken Wilbur's fulcrum 6). You can physically tie down everything, but you can still be worrying because you are paranoid. You may have done what you needed to do but you can still be paranoid. This is where "peace in the middle of storms" mentioned by the TS comes in.
But I understand what you mean, and I'll leave it at that. -
In its normal state it causes suffering. If I were to say that you can keep your mind (as in knowing when to run from danger etc but not turn yourself into a rock) but yet not suffer, would you be interested?Originally posted by Cystaire:As mentioned earlier the concept of "integrating" mind with body is meaningless to me because mind is simply an aspect of body (mental functions derived from brain activity) and from another organizational level vice versa (subjective interpretation of body image derived from mental function).
But I understand what you mean, and I'll leave it at that.
I know some people have problems with christianity because it sounds too g@y for them, but that's where buddha's 84,000 forms of teaching come in. -
if people help themselves, then why god must help them some more since they are already helping themselves already. would not this create knowledge gap and welfare gap. the lousy becomes lousier while the better become better. its another flaw statment i think.Originally posted by Eric Cartman:How about shortening that minutes of worry to seconds, then to miliseconds and eventually into 0. What do you mean accountability? If it is what I think it is then they also have the saying "God helps those who help themselves" (not sure if it is from the bible or not)
i trying to reduce my worry, fear and stress to minimum amount. self accountability is a common term in self help books. its about being independent and taking charge of your own life and take more responsibility.
anyway, are you worryless, fearless, stressless? -
Actually I am more interested in how the TS story does not relate to the moral it intends to teach.Originally posted by Eric Cartman:In its normal state it causes suffering. If I were to say that you can keep your mind (as in knowing when to run from danger etc but not turn yourself into a rock) but yet not suffer, would you be interested?
I know some people have problems with christianity because it sounds too g@y for them, but that's where buddha's 84,000 forms of teaching come in.
I see that you are not interested in addressing this. That's fine.
Recently my hobby is to learn and practice writing parables to more effectively communicate with most people.
This hobby arose from my frustration that many people seem to prefer hearing meaningless stories rather than clearly-presented, well-supported arguments.
Rationality is like a bitter real pill that people cannot benefit from, because it is too bitter to hold in the mouth.
So people enjoy popping content-free sugar pills instead. That is the sad reality. -
let me share with you a taiwan news.
a rich girl is living a humble life. she often help unfortunate people and is hardworking in her life. you know what happen to her? she got knocked down by lorry one day and pass away.
when her relatives were interviewed. they cried out, "why does god have no eyes" (in chinese)
of course i don't want to say that this is my proof that god does not exist or what. i just want to tell you that this kind of things happen in reality and hope you can infer something useful from it.
on the other hand, when people escape narrowly from death or disaster, a common reaction is that they will be grateful to God for helping them.
the point is that it is easy to link things and beliefs in life based on faulty observations and form pseudo beliefs.
here is my opinion on the 2 cases. whether you are good or bad person, life is unpredictable for everyone. you can be mother theresa but that does not mean that you will be spared from accidents in life.
when you escape from death in life, you simply just count yourself lucky. all this has nothing to do with god. -
Because nothing is not outside of your own mind. Feel the sand on the beach. Feel the breeze. Feel the anger inside you. Are they really "out there"? They're not really "out there" but are all your mind only. You are in the Matrix. I am in your mind. The TS is in your mind. This thread is in your mind.Originally posted by january:if people help themselves, then why god must help them some more since they are already helping themselves already. would not this create knowledge gap and welfare gap. the lousy becomes lousier while the better become better. its another flaw statment i think.
i trying to reduce my worry, fear and stress to minimum amount. self accountability is a common term in self help books. its about being independent and taking charge of your own life and take more responsibility.
anyway, are you worryless, fearless, stressless?
Having a God also prevents one from developing an ego, which inevitably causes suffering at some point.
It is like saying "why chant when we can meditate?" Because some people cannot meditate (due to restlessness) and are more suitable for chanting. Why do you need God when you can help yourself? Because of whatever reason I don't know and will not waste my brain power to think about it.
The thing here is are you disturbed by TS's sharing? (and he's not even forcing it)
I worry etc for a few minutes now. -
Simple. God is not that thing in your impression.Originally posted by january:let me share with you a taiwan news.
a rich girl is living a humble life. she often help unfortunate people and is hardworking in her life. you know what happen to her? she got knocked down by lorry one day and pass away.
when her relatives were interviewed. they cried out, "why does god have no eyes" (in chinese)
of course i don't want to say that this is my proof that god does not exist or what. i just want to tell you that this kind of things happen in reality and hope you can infer something useful from it.
on the other hand, when people escape narrowly from death or disaster, a common reaction is that they will be grateful to God for helping them.
the point is that it is easy to link things and beliefs in life based on faulty observations and form pseudo beliefs.
here is my opinion on the 2 cases. whether you are good or bad person, life is unpredictable for everyone. you can be mother theresa but that does not mean that you will be spared from accidents in life.
when you escape from death in life, you simply just count yourself lucky. all this has nothing to do with god. -
ok, so assistant in the story tied everything down physically. To be able to tie down everything physically before even the boss awakes from his sleep requires some sort of mindset that is ready for disaster doesn't it? That covers mental and physical. After doing the work he went to sleep. If one wasn't really prepared deeply enough in his mind he won't be unable to sleep well, would he?Originally posted by Cystaire:Actually I am more interested in how the TS story does not relate to the moral it intends to teach.
I see that you are not interested in addressing this. That's fine.
Recently my hobby is to learn and practice writing parables to more effectively communicate with most people.
This hobby arose from my frustration that many people seem to prefer hearing meaningless stories rather than clearly-presented, well-supported arguments.
Rationality is like a bitter real pill that people cannot benefit from, because it is too bitter to hold in the mouth.
So people enjoy popping content-free sugar pills instead. That is the sad reality. -
Good observation.Originally posted by january:if people help themselves, then why god must help them some more since they are already helping themselves already. would not this create knowledge gap and welfare gap. the lousy becomes lousier while the better become better. its another flaw statment i think.
i trying to reduce my worry, fear and stress to minimum amount. self accountability is a common term in self help books. its about being independent and taking charge of your own life and take more responsibility.
anyway, are you worryless, fearless, stressless?
The people who cannot help themselves, are in greater need of help.
If god only helps (more) those who help themselves, then these people have unfair additional benefits (especially when god already made them better at helping themselves compared to others).
Also, if god only helps people who help themselves, it is difficult to see where the benefit comes from. The people or god?
As a consequence of this statement you can never tell if god is helping or not. -
you don't need a god to prevent yourself from developing an ego. you just need to know that being egoistic has its dangers. you can learn this fact from some smart people or books or friends. no need god at all.Originally posted by Eric Cartman:Because nothing is not outside of your own mind. Feel the sand on the beach. Feel the breeze. Feel the anger inside you. Are they really "out there"? They're not really "out there" but are all your mind only. You are in the Matrix. I am in your mind. The TS is in your mind. This thread is in your mind.
Having a God also prevents one from developing an ego, which inevitably causes suffering at some point.
It is like saying "why chant when we can meditate?" Because some people cannot meditate (due to restlessness) and are more suitable for chanting. Why do you need God when you can help yourself? Because of whatever reason I don't know and will not waste my brain power to think about it.
The thing here is are you disturbed by TS's sharing? (and he's not even forcing it)
I worry etc for a few minutes now.
i am not disturbed by TS sharing. i am forumer who wants to contribute good knowledge by participating so that readers can have my versions of opinions.
rememer in forums, there are also many readers who do not write in opinions but they just read.
you said "because of whatever reason i dun know and will not waste my brain power to think about it"
i think by saying this you are not going to convince anyone. you talk about some beliefs and theories just now and then in this part you say this kind of sentence.??? -
Since you have decided to step into january's objective in this discussion, don't say that you are only trying to prove the parable is inappropriate.Originally posted by Cystaire:Good observation.
The people who cannot help themselves, are in greater need of help.
If god only helps (more) those who help themselves, then these people have unfair additional benefits (especially when god already made them better at helping themselves compared to others).
Also, if god only helps people who help themselves, it is difficult to see where the benefit comes from. The people or god?
As a consequence of this statement you can never tell if god is helping or not. -
ok let's take buddhism for example. Why do they meditate when they know that jhanas are not enlightenment? Because it aids in reaching enlightenment.Originally posted by january:you don't need a god to prevent yourself from developing an ego. you just need to know that being egoistic has its dangers. you can learn this fact from some smart people or books or friends. no need god at all.
i am not disturbed by TS sharing. i am forumer who wants to contribute good knowledge by participating so that readers can have my versions of opinions.
rememer in forums, there are also many readers who do not write in opinions but they just read.
you said "because of whatever reason i dun know and will not waste my brain power to think about it"
i think by saying this you are not going to convince anyone. you talk about some beliefs and theories just now and then in this part you say this kind of sentence.???
There are 84,000 teachings towards perfect peace in the world, each catering to different kinds of people. Are you going to look into every one of them and see what kind of people they cater to? There are as many kinds of disciples as there are as many individuals. -
That could imply that because a person is well-prepared physically, he would be well-prepared mentally.Originally posted by Eric Cartman:ok, so assistant in the story tied everything down physically. To be able to tie down everything physically before even the boss awakes from his sleep requires some sort of mindset that is ready for disaster doesn't it? That covers mental and physical. After doing the work he went to sleep. If one wasn't really prepared deeply enough in his mind he won't be unable to sleep well, would he?
Could he be sleeping so soundly if he was completely betting that god will not send the storm his way? He is physically prepared as if god will not help, or even exists.
Anyway a mindset that is "ready for disaster" already departs from the "hold god's hand, everything will be alright" message in the moral of the story. -
No, my main interest remains in the flaws of the parable.Originally posted by Eric Cartman:Since you have decided to step into january's objective in this discussion, don't say that you are only trying to prove the parable is inappropriate.
I will stop my discussion on that tangential topic, if you wish. -
i gtg be back later
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i dunno what u are arguing. but anyway. i want to study liao.. so that is all for today....Originally posted by Eric Cartman:ok let's take buddhism for example. Why do they meditate when they know that jhanas are not enlightenment? Because it aids in reaching enlightenment.
There are 84,000 teachings towards perfect peace in the world, each catering to different kinds of people. Are you going to look into every one of them and see what kind of people they cater to? There are as many kinds of disciples as there are as many individuals. -
Would he prepare physically if he wasn't mentally prepared? Would he actually do the thing if he didn't have the mind to do so?Originally posted by Cystaire:That could imply that because a person is well-prepared physically, he would be well-prepared mentally.
Could he be sleeping so soundly if he was completely betting that god will not send the storm his way? He is physically prepared as if god will not help, or even exists.
Anyway a mindset that is "ready for disaster" already departs from the "hold god's hand, everything will be alright" message in the moral of the story. -
Do your emotions sometimes act differently from what your mind is saying?
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Hello guys , i am not a Christian , but i do believe this story is created by a christian , and he believe what he believe on whoever is above him .
I am not too particular about the religion in this story , just believe .... in preparation for everything u want to do , and maybe ... u will face less problems ahead .
Good day guys . -
good point.Originally posted by Ignatiaus:I don't get this part
If applicants refused to work
Why go for apply and go for interview?
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maybe they expected $10000 per monthOriginally posted by Ignatiaus:I don't get this part
If applicants refused to work
Why go for apply and go for interview?