Sometimes I feel I wasted one year doing honours...
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Pay was on sat, but they sent sms on friday morning telling me pay is on sat.Originally posted by I_love_my_toilet:wahaha, u supposed to out pro on sat but friday come out liao
so pay is till sat ?
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Actually, before you pursue any course of study, find out what is the salary structure like in the private and public sector for a particular profession say engineering, accountancy, marketing, etc. This way, you don't waste time and money pursuing a qualification that is not so relevant to finding a job. Of course, there are people who want to be in a particular profession or vocation, say a painter or footballer. Then, I suppose it does not matter what course of study. Yet there are many who never became lawyers after studying lor!
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Your observations are correct!Originally posted by krautfuher:I am a grad with good honours from a local university.
Where I am working now, I am starting to feel its better not to spend that one year pursuing honours unless you intend to work in civil service. Its better to spend that one year starting work early and gaining more experience / earning power.
I have one colleague, we joined the company at the same time. He did not do honours (just a 3 year course) and by the pay structure of the company (all starting pay is the same), now he is drawing the same pay as me. And I'm no slouch at work either (Not the lam nua kind). What the heck!
It might be a better path to skip the honours year and go out to work and gain experience and one day do a Masters course. But of course, some Masters courses require you to do honours (but not all).
Conclusions - one should not do Honours if:
1) One does not intend to work in civil service.
2) One intends to work in civil service but does not let the $$$ difference get to you (honours grads earn more)
3) Honours is not a pre-requisite to getting into your industry of choice.
4) You intend to work in sales / marketing / trading.
5) You intend to work overseas, in some country where companies not give a damn whether you have honours or not, or 1st or 2nd class for that matter.
Honors by itself is mostly useless unless you want to apply to the following types of companies:
- Civil Service (this is where the usefulness of honors shows. N in some sense your future career path is charted based on ur education. Of course the scholars from the start have the best paths. Even if you perform better than them in work, a cmi scholar is still more likely to 'outperform' u in terms of career progression.)
- Big MNCs which are popular with graduates (If you are the HR screening these applications which can come in the thousands and hiring is mostly done on regional basis at fixed time periods every year, the easiest initial screening step is looking at grades first) [Still there are exceptions]
- Big Banks in competitive positions (same as Big MNCs explanation given above)
If you are applying for a normal MNC or even SME, honestly honors won't make a diff. The reason why some companies still pay honors students more (MNCs, civil service etc) is to act as an example that they value grades. Imagine if all companies paid honors students the same as normal degree, who the hell would work so hard to get honors in future?)
The honors advantage only comes in initial stage, after that. It's useless liao. Pretty much up to your individual capabilities and networking skills. If you do a nationwide poll, you'll find the richest people are infact the most uneducated, but no government wants to do this. Doing that would destroy the value of education immediately n cause social chaos.
It's the same problem with guys supposed to be paid slightly higher due to NS. Again only civil service and big MNCs mostly do that to show they 'value' ur time lost in the military. Most of the time, it's just used as a good PR tool for big MNCs. Some SMEs might pay guys more but there's no stated rule bounded by law, so don't hope for higher pay at start just cause u gave 2 yrs of ur life to military.
About your masters question, if you are an uneducated idiot running a multi-million dollar company churning strong revenues and expanding overseas, I'm sure most MBA schools will want u to be their teacher. So honors isn't really useful. What matters more is your job experience.
Regarding masters degree or MBAs, I've met many people who thought by getting a MBA, they can get a career boost. Most of the time, no, it doesn't work that way. You have to be a natural high-flier first where you can get on ahead regardless of whether u get an MBA or not. Know the difference. It shows that paper qualifications by itself is still useless ultimately.
Also your choice of MBAs are very important, either you go for the best or you don't bother with MBAs and just focus fully on your career. Get the best like Chicago Graduate School of Business or INSEAD which both have local collages in Singapore with part of the curriculum thought overseas. These are one of the best globally and I consider them as future options as they have offices in Singapore. Such MBA courses are used more as a ground for networking rather than actual theoretical learning. I've checked with the Chicago GSB one, u need 10yrs working experience, course fees about USD100k-200k. Again don't bother with an MBA unless you are already a high-flier. N yeah, I do not even consider local Masters - wasting time n money.
Please do not chase paper for the sake of paper. It will not work out. Look at china, there are so many masters students there, so few have jobs. N their course content is comparable to ours, maybe even tougher.
Focus on developing your own internal capabilities. Work hard, work smart, network well, focus more on soft skills. I strongly emphasis the last point. There are many smart n brilliant pple who can only converse well with computers or robots. They are most likely going to spend the rest of their lifes holed up in the IT basement talking to the computers for the rest of their career.
All the best to your career! -
IF IT IS PSY. IT MATTERS HELL ALOT IF YOU TAKE YOUR HONS OR NOT.
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If you study honours because you might get better pay... why work in private sector????
You should get into gov sector where... if you get into the rigt dep, your pay would always increase like no body business.... -
honours are total rubbish.
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Does engineering or other honors such as from Uni of Melbourne / UQ/ or other overseas uni matter for job employment in Singapore, especially in the civil sector?
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YeaOriginally posted by FireIce:oni first class and 2nd upper useful lah
if 2nd lower or 3rd class, might as well dun tell ppl u got hons.
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Originally posted by MetalGear:
[b]The honors advantage only comes in initial stage, after that. It's useless liao. Pretty much up to your individual capabilities and networking skills. If you do a nationwide poll, you'll find the richest people are infact the most uneducated, but no government wants to do this. Doing that would destroy the value of education immediately n cause social chaos.
Doing Honours is one extra year. What does it really entail? Extra subjects or deeper knowledge? This 'Honours' thingy is really dishonest! Add one extra year of studying more of the same and called it 'Honours' to let it sound honourable!
How come they don't have such 'Honours' in medicine degree and architecture? So, one extra year means they learned more diseases and how to treat them? Those who don't can't treat dengue, becuase dengue was taught in Honours year? And those who don't do extra year in architecture can't build condos because condo is taught only in the Honours year!
About your masters question, if you are an uneducated idiot running a multi-million dollar company churning strong revenues and expanding overseas, I'm sure most MBA schools will want u to be their teacher. So honors isn't really useful. What matters more is your job experience.
Regarding masters degree or MBAs, I've met many people who thought by getting a MBA, they can get a career boost. Most of the time, no, it doesn't work that way. You have to be a natural high-flier first where you can get on ahead regardless of whether u get an MBA or not. Know the difference. It shows that paper qualifications by itself is still useless ultimately.
MBA is just a hive. Today, there is MBA in everything! MBA is nothing more than business administration. Originally, it was meant as a 'second' degree for those who did engineering, law, science, arts who wanted to get into business. Now, every Tom and Jane thinks that MBA is a ticket to corporate chief! Actually to manage a business is not so difficult as getting business! Even a secretary can do that! Do you know that when the CEO is out of town, the secretary is the one holding the fort for him?
Please do not chase paper for the sake of paper. It will not work out. Look at china, there are so many masters students there, so few have jobs. N their course content is comparable to ours, maybe even tougher.
Unfortunately, the old tradition in China and here is the same: scholars are 'better' than peasants!
Focus on developing your own internal capabilities. Work hard, work smart, network well, focus more on soft skills. I strongly emphasis the last point. There are many smart n brilliant pple who can only converse well with computers or robots. They are most likely going to spend the rest of their lifes holed up in the IT basement talking to the computers for the rest of their career.
Hmmm .... very good observation. -
what did you study? I wanna get honours in engineering but I dont even know if I can cuz its gonna take very hard workOriginally posted by krautfuher:I am a grad with good honours from a local university.
Where I am working now, I am starting to feel its better not to spend that one year pursuing honours unless you intend to work in civil service. Its better to spend that one year starting work early and gaining more experience / earning power.
I have one colleague, we joined the company at the same time. He did not do honours (just a 3 year course) and by the pay structure of the company (all starting pay is the same), now he is drawing the same pay as me. And I'm no slouch at work either (Not the lam nua kind). What the heck!
It might be a better path to skip the honours year and go out to work and gain experience and one day do a Masters course. But of course, some Masters courses require you to do honours (but not all).
Conclusions - one should not do Honours if:
1) One does not intend to work in civil service.
2) One intends to work in civil service but does not let the $$$ difference get to you (honours grads earn more)
3) Honours is not a pre-requisite to getting into your industry of choice.
4) You intend to work in sales / marketing / trading.
5) You intend to work overseas, in some country where companies not give a damn whether you have honours or not, or 1st or 2nd class for that matter. and if I want to get a good position its gonna take high marks for sure. -
What a great enlightenment
Actually, i have ever thought of what u guy have said, namely why should i study too hard for honours? Anyway, it won't make a diff except for the initial salary boost. Due to this reason, i decided to pursue a double degree course instead of a purely honour course. Reason being both takes 4 years (my double is a bit special kind) and i can get another degree. In that way, i believe more door will be opened to me as compared to a honour student.
I also agreed with what some of u said. Qualification only provide an opportunity for one to get the job, not securing one. Securing one's job depends greatly on performance. In other words, a hardworking degree student who constantly outperformed a lazy honour student will eventually held a much higher position. To add on, networking skill and soft skill (mingling skill) are the 2 most important skills that one needs to succeed in the BUSINESS world. Having a vast business contact will allows one to clich a deal or receive support when one is in trouble.
After reading this thread, i gain quite a fair bit of insight. Maybe i should just study the subject that i like in the module and avoid those exemptable subject. After all, honour is not important to me anymore. What i need is just a degree as a headstart. -
It's not a waste......
You may have more lowly-qualified colleagues earning as much as you or even more than you for that matter but they have probably gone as far as they can go already. But with good honours, you probably have greater mileage......
Hence, you should not just look at the present. Remember, life is not a 100m sprint.... it's a super-marathon!
These days, work experience is as vital as academic qualifications but one cannot do without the other to go far in one's career......
If you feel your having good honours is a waste, it probably has to do with a moment of self-doubt/lack of confidence which occurs to every mere mortal from time to time.........
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Thanks for the long writeup, MetalGear!
I agree with you that there are more things we should work on, like soft people skills instead of becoming a lifeless geek in the office. I'm sure some of us have seen 'farmers' excelling far more than the educated ones particularly in the private sector because they get things done.
Sadly there are lots of CMI civil servants who continue to get promoted and rewarded just because they are so-called 'scholars'. I had a experience with an OC who was the eat-potato kind but super good qualifications from what I heard. No leadership, the men don't look up to him and he can't chiong sua for nuts. But after a year as OC, they took him to MINDEF, presumably to some higher position. Yet there are other OCs with better leadership skills, better people and job management, more garang, but maybe not enough paper qualifications. They stay where they are, of course.
Moral of the story: unless you did super well in your 'O' and 'Air' levels and manage to get some PSC or some Govt scholarship, don't do honours. Just get a basic degree and go out there and get some experience and see how the uneducated high-fliers get things done. -
if u want, u study...
if u don't want, u don't study...
just don't regret ur decision... no point crying over spilled milk...
look ahead...
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Precious, I will have to disagree with u on this.Originally posted by :It's not a waste......
You may have more lowly-qualified colleagues earning as much as you or even more than you for that matter but they have probably gone as far as they can go already. But with good honours, you probably have greater mileage......
Hence, you should not just look at the present. Remember, life is not a 100m sprint.... it's a super-marathon!
These days, work experience is as vital as academic qualifications but one cannot do without the other to go far in one's career......
If you feel your having good honours is a waste, it probably has to do with a moment of self-doubt/lack of confidence which occurs to every mere mortal from time to time.........
Good honour is not a waste -- yes -- only for the initial salary boost.
The loss u suffer when u pursue ur honours:
1) Working Experience (it is always gd to start early)
2) Financial Stability (U are a year late in reaching ur finanical stability)
3) THE MOST IMPORTANT: what u study and learned will most likely not appliable to u job, unless u are a doctor, accountant (all those specialised degree) I.E. a year is wasted
Ultimately, career progression solely depends on one's innate capabilities and qualification serves only as a headstarter. That's my 2 cent -
how i wish i had honours.....
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btw what course r u studying? with an honours, many people get higher pays duh =X
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I did engineering but am working in a non-related industry. If you do engineering, which is a 4 yr course (assuming local uni) you need to go through honours. You can consider doing business courses or something, which are 3 years and shorter (with 1 year extension for honours). Don't waste your time doing engineering if you are sure you are not the kind of person made out to be an engineer.Originally posted by the.owl:what did you study? I wanna get honours in engineering but I dont even know if I can cuz its gonna take very hard work and if I want to get a good position its gonna take high marks for sure. -
There are many studies done by governments and private bodies regarding the link between education and wages.Originally posted by MetalGear:If you do a nationwide poll, you'll find the richest people are infact the most uneducated, but no government wants to do this. Doing that would destroy the value of education immediately n cause social chaos.
This one is by the United States government:
Summary
http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/educational.htm
Statistics
http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2003/oct/wk3/art04.htm
Education is in fact highly correlated to Wages. (Higher education => higher wages) However, one must be mindful to the fact that having a cert does not automatically entitle one to higher wages!
MBAs from "good" schools have also been shown to raise wages by a sizable amount. The reason is probably because "capable" workers who have the ability to earn high wages will go for higher education to differentiate themselves from the crowd. Education is thus a "signal" of your ability. (And NOT an entitlement to higher wages!) -
me only "O" level
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I hope some of you guys realise for some engineering graduates, an honours degree is not a choice. Whether you get honours or not, you lan lan have to complete the 4 year course -
Actually I believe a Masters is the worst place to stop. Except for an MBA and a few rare specialized masters e.g. CFA, there isnt much value in the real world. A masters in general is just a step to get your doctorate eventually. By itself, its worthless?Originally posted by Gedanken:Across the levels of tertiary education, Honours is probably the worst place to stop. It's still an undergrad degree, and you've spent an extra year at university. If you've gotten that far, you may as well stay in and do a postgrad degree. -
Yes, I know exactly how you feel. Cept I am in a related industry hoping to get into a non-related industryOriginally posted by krautfuher:I did engineering but am working in a non-related industry. If you do engineering, which is a 4 yr course (assuming local uni) you need to go through honours. You can consider doing business courses or something, which are 3 years and shorter (with 1 year extension for honours). Don't waste your time doing engineering if you are sure you are not the kind of person made out to be an engineer.
Hmm Engineering.. Youre not a graduate from a local university right, since you can choose whether or not to pursue honours -
You better get 2nd upper and above else shell or exxon wont accept youOriginally posted by deathscythe99:Yea seriously -
Honours is only useful depending on which area/field/specialty you are in.
One cannot go far in a field which depends on the fact that one has been trained to think critically and work independently. Sad to say, this can only be demonstrated through on paper qualification. Example would be the medical research/ life science area.
How far can we go if we only have a basic degree in this particular area? As Philip Yeo said, we can only be test-tube washers. OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!