Sometimes I feel I wasted one year doing honours...
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Honors is only more useful at the start of one's career, not that much once you go further down your career path.
Don't expect to be paid more just because u have honors for your 1st degree. Civil service will definitely do that, some big MNCs may do, but don't expect it.
Having studied already and you are in your 1st job. Make good with it. But do know that engineers suffer a natural flaw. They become more expensive and value add less as they become older n more experienced. More prone to lay off. Imagine if ur work experience is 10yrs worth n ur pay is 5 times that of a fresh grad, is ur value add necessarily 5 times more that of a fresh grad? Unlikely if u are in pure engineering role. From mgmt's perspective, instead of having u, they'll just hire more engineers, keep less senior engineers like u n still be able to do the job.
Now job market booming. It's great, but everything moves in cycles, when economy goes down, be prepared, be nimble. Now is the time to start preparing urself. I wud recommend trying to move into a role which has some management job function, it increases ur value and allows u even to change industries shd the need arise.
For further education, if u really want, then go ahead n do a MBA but only after considerable years of experience. Our local masters are still acceptable but go only for those which have tie-ups with reputable overseas graduate schools. At MBA level, it's not so much of theoretical knowledge. But networking and simply the reputation of the school which u got into.
U'll find that the pple that go the furthest in their career are those who know how to connect well with pple, outgoing, make use of pple well. In short they are pple kind of pple. If u want to go far, focus on developing this aspect of urself.
The true fact is no idiot aims low in their career. Everyone wants to be the best, just like no idiot wants to be poor but there are still poor pple out there. Every industry career structure is a pyramid, there are less places for the pple at the top. So u gotta differentiate urself and standout from the crowd.
How u do that? U have to find that out urself better.
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Okay, then yOu wOrk in KOpi-O tiam. But that is still 'hOnOurable' Occupation.Originally posted by Seven_Dragon:me only "O" level
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Engineering at NUS or NTU is direct honours... No need to think de.
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where in hell do you get 30% pay increase ?
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Can't say I agree. As much as a Master's is a step along the way to a doctorate, Honours is a step along the way to a postgrad degree. The advantage of the Master's is that it's a postgrad degree, while Honours is still undergrad.Originally posted by DriftingGuy:Actually I believe a Masters is the worst place to stop. Except for an MBA and a few rare specialized masters e.g. CFA, there isnt much value in the real world. A masters in general is just a step to get your doctorate eventually. By itself, its worthless?
That said, I see your point. I bypassed Master's and went straight for the doctorate. All I would have saved with the Master's was one year, and for that I would have walked out as Mr instead of Dr - it's kinda like kissing your sister.
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Are you a PhD?Originally posted by Gedanken:That said, I see your point. I bypassed Master's and went straight for the doctorate. All I would have saved with the Master's was one year, and for that I would have walked out as Mr instead of Dr - it's kinda like kissing your sister.
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U'll realise that most people with PhD are in the academic line or research line. Coz that's why it only adds value.
Companies tend to think that a PhD person other than for research related positions as too qualified or only able to talk to books. -
Yes.Originally posted by MetalGear:U'll realise that most people with PhD are in the academic line or research line. Coz that's why it only adds value.
Companies tend to think that a PhD person other than for research related positions as too qualified or only able to talk to books.
Not every industry requires a Ph.D for you to advance. -
honours as mentioned makes the difference only in civil service...$200 - $300 perhaps? other than that it looks good only on the wall.....
these days if you lack high education, go sell property...quite a load full of millionaires there, the only thing is that while you can stuff their pockets, many of them still lack class, then again who cares, money talks.... -
i think in Civil Service, having honors maybe does not really matter much. Is just a entrance re-requisite? But having a MBA / Scholarship is an entirely different story.Originally posted by countdracula:honours as mentioned makes the difference only in civil service...$200 - $300 perhaps? other than that it looks good only on the wall.....
these days if you lack high education, go sell property...quite a load full of millionaires there, the only thing is that while you can stuff their pockets, many of them still lack class, then again who cares, money talks.... -
Most people with PhD are in the research line because thats the job scope of a PhD. Why bother getting a PhD if you're going into sales or business?Originally posted by MetalGear:U'll realise that most people with PhD are in the academic line or research line. Coz that's why it only adds value.
Companies tend to think that a PhD person other than for research related positions as too qualified or only able to talk to books.
Regarding your second statement, on what grounds do you make that statement? There are jobs that only PhDs can do. For example, investment banks hire quantitative analysts with PhD qualifications. The IMF and World Bank hires PhD economists all the time. In biochem, only PhD holders are qualified for research. (degree and dip can only wash testubes
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Of course, you won't find jobs for PhD in the classifieds! PhDs don't look through the classifieds section and find job like everyone else, there are other channels for them. And don't expect PhDs to play similar role to degree holders or MBAs. Of course they are only able to talk to books, they are scientists, not PR managers! Companies hire them to talk to books and not talk to the hot counter girl.
PhD is a huge undertaking that goes beyond "finding a job". It is a dedication of your life to research. It is not just another degree. There are no lessons, lectures or syllabus to study or exams to cram. A PhD is obtained only through practical research.
Btw did you read my reply linking to the USA government research showing how education is correlated with income? -
Nope - I'm a DPsych. I wanted to practice instead of teach, and the DPsych offered the supervised practice required for registration to practice as a psychologist, which the PhD didn't.Originally posted by GoodBook:Are you a PhD? -
Disagree. The most successful PhDs I've ever had the pleasure of working with have all had a talent for translating academic gobbledygook into plain English. If they can't communicate their bottom line, they're stuck in the back rooms going nowhere fast.Originally posted by GoodBook:Of course they are only able to talk to books, they are scientists, not PR managers!
Case in point: I worked in a market research organisation with a Ukranian fellow who had a PhD in Mathematics. He had absolutely no problems with his calculations, of course, but his main problem was that he couldn't understand what was being asked of him. It wasn't until I came aboard and started talking to him in equations that he could actually peform the job he was hired for. Ultimately, though, the powers that be decided that I wasn't there to act as a translator, and since I could understand the stuff that he was supposed to do, they fired him and dumped his workload on me.
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Originally posted by countdracula:honours as mentioned makes the difference only in civil service...$200 - $300 perhaps? other than that it looks good only on the wall.....
The Civil Service is rigid and based on elitism and paper qualifications. The gahmen prefers scholars than mavericks. People who can come up with PAP (Policies And Procedures), and write tons of black & white (or it is white & white?) are the Honours graduates!
these days if you lack high education, go sell property...quite a load full of millionaires there, the only thing is that while you can stuff their pockets, many of them still lack class, then again who cares, money talks....
Actually, many selling properties are graduates and many hold Masters. But they are all mixed lots. When the property market is hot, even ahma and ahpek can sell. Like they say in MY 'throw a stone and you will hit a datuk'.
The work of property agent is not rocket science but then you also cannot get a piece of property on the moon! -
U are wrong. A pass degree and a third class honours may have a difference of 600 or more (guys with NS get more....probably 1100 more)Originally posted by countdracula:honours as mentioned makes the difference only in civil service...$200 - $300 perhaps? other than that it looks good only on the wall.....
Every month 600/1100, one year is how much? -
Wow DPsych. Interesting!Originally posted by Gedanken:Nope - I'm a DPsych. I wanted to practice instead of teach, and the DPsych offered the supervised practice required for registration to practice as a psychologist, which the PhD didn't.
Wow interesting job you have there! Just curious, how much are the PhDs there paid? Hardly any info on PhD level salary around.Originally posted by Gedanken:Disagree. The most successful PhDs I've ever had the pleasure of working with have all had a talent for translating academic gobbledygook into plain English. If they can't communicate their bottom line, they're stuck in the back rooms going nowhere fast.
Case in point: I worked in a market research organisation with a Ukranian fellow who had a PhD in Mathematics. He had absolutely no problems with his calculations, of course, but his main problem was that he couldn't understand what was being asked of him. It wasn't until I came aboard and started talking to him in equations that he could actually peform the job he was hired for. Ultimately, though, the powers that be decided that I wasn't there to act as a translator, and since I could understand the stuff that he was supposed to do, they fired him and dumped his workload on me.
Are you sure his problem is not a language problem? (Ukranian?) Cause as far as I know you need to do lab work to get a PhD and that means working with people. Need to teach (Teaching Assistant) or work (Lab Assistant) also...which means interacting with people.
This is true at least for hard sciences and economics/finance. Maybe PhD maths no need to do all those, lock inside a room for 3 years can liao hahaha.
Wow, you could do his work? Does that mean you are a PhD also?
Hey, thanks for the valuable tibits man! -
You're right, poor Yev did have a language problem, and it's one aspect of how PhDs do need to be able to talk to people, not just books. He was a lovely guy and once he got the idea, he was off like a shot, but his difficulty in understanding what was required of him is what did him in.Originally posted by GoodBook:Wow interesting job you have there! Just curious, how much are the PhDs there paid? Hardly any info on PhD level salary around.
Are you sure his problem is not a language problem? (Ukranian?) Cause as far as I know you need to do lab work to get a PhD and that means working with people. Need to teach (Teaching Assistant) or work (Lab Assistant) also...which means interacting with people.
This is true at least for hard sciences and economics/finance. Maybe PhD maths no need to do all those, lock inside a room for 3 years can liao hahaha.
Wow, you could do his work? Does that mean you are a PhD also?
Hey, thanks for the valuable tibits man!
Anyway, Yev got his PhD somewhere the Ukraine and taught university Mathematics there, so he didn't actually encounter any problems till he moved to Australia. Oddly enough, when he left he got a job teaching at a university here, and I honestly don't know how he's fared since.
As for taking over his work, my doctoral thesis was on Item Response Theory, which is involves a fair amount of calculus, so I was reasonably well-equipped to take over the role. I've switched roles myself since, but these days my work still involves a fair bit of mathematics since I'm doing stuff like structural equation modelling.
I don't know if there's any authoritative reference for PhDs' pay scales - it all depends on the role. You may be a PhD who does a lot of back-end work and be stuck with 90 or so grand a year, or if you have the people skills to go with the technical skills, you could go a lot further. -
not to hijack this thread, let's say i doing honors in an overseas uni, how do i fare against those doing honors in SG?(Like employment, etc etc). Especially in engineering degrees
And honors in overseas vs. non-honors in SG.
I'm afraid if I take honors overseas and when I come back to SG to find jobs, it would be much tougher for me.