Second Korean Killed in Afganistan
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Oh and quick look around online suggests that South Koreans have been coming into the country enmasse to spread christianity since earlier than 2006, and the the South Koreans have a rather more 'pro-active' approach to missionary work than western missionaries.
This kidnapping seems to be the culmination of months of tension and warnings.
As I said, bloody fools.
I hope they make it back. Else, I hope heaven is worth it. -
Look mate, I'm no Terrorist lover.Originally posted by Twice A Day:Bro, I seriously could understand your viewpoint..but sad to say..I couldn't agree anything with you. First and foremost...kidnapping is already a sin..It dosen't matter whether they are commoners, tourist, soldiers or missionaries.
Secondly..killing is killing..It just couldn't be condoned..What abt the beheading? I couldn't see any excuse for that...Why are people actually showing sympathy for terrorists...Its frightening to see people actually condoning what they have done..Be it bombings, kidnapping..whatsoever..
Doing it for whatever reason..they are terrorists...thats a fact..so still..I hope something works out..If not I would support an all out military action..
This matter just can't drag forever and it's only a mtter of time when more hostages get killed..And the thought of taliban militants freed as exchange for the hostages are just unthinkable..What would be the message to the terrorists...just scary to think...Lets pray for the hostages....
But lets put things into perspective ... what makes a terrorist... typically poverty and continous oppression. But as the saying goes - "One mans terrorist is another freedom fighter". If they have jetfighters, tanks, helicopters... you think they would use suicide bombing? When the French were resisting the Germans .. they were called freedom fighter by allies.. while the german calls them Terrorist. That's what's happening in Iraq.
What is the difference between dropping 2,000 lb Jdams, or line bombing by B52 in residential areas to get afew Terrorist, killing more civilians Women and children and class them "Collateral Damage".. Than say a car bomb , Targeting Iraqi/Afghan/American Police/soldiers and killing Civilians ? If you read the news carefully... that's the situation.. bit are in small short sentences at the end of the articles.
Back to Afghan... One must understand and respect religion, and culture of country. You don't just go to a Tribal Muslim Religious country and preach and convert them to Christianity... and doing it Taliban Country is really asking for it. BTW, you gets a beheading/ hanging sentence in Saudi Arabia for doing that same thing.. but it's alright they are US allies.
Kidnapping - US has been Kidnapping foriegners for decades, they might use different terms.. like "Rendition"... but its means the same thing. Israelis do it all the time. Do you know that the US and coalition are arresting whole families of suspected insurgents to force them to surrender themselves... that's to me is kidnapping. How is it different than what's the Taliban is doing? How about those so-called Inmates in Gitzmo.. how many of them were released after afew years with no charge.. None of the inmates were even given a fair trial.. to say that they are indeed Guilty. You don't get to read the news here in Singapore, but they were numerous news of "renditioned" inmates freed and dump back where they were abducted without an explaination.
Now, personally, I don't support the Iraq War.. as it was based on lies and deception. Also I reserve my opinion on the invasion of Afghan too... Because unless the US can fully explain how WTC7 Collapse, minutes after the two towers.. and includes them in their Investigation Commission, and why the three building belongs to the same person.. I will continue to be suspicious of the whole 9/11 episode... and BTW, OsamaBinLaden confession video on planning the 9/11 was proven an imposter. It was a different person, you can be fat or thin, but you can't throw a bigger nose in a year. and of course, he denies involvement a week before this video -
Say you are a resistance fighter during WWII.Originally posted by Twice A Day:Bro, I seriously could understand your viewpoint..but sad to say..I couldn't agree anything with you. First and foremost...kidnapping is already a sin..It dosen't matter whether they are commoners, tourist, soldiers or missionaries.
You see one section of Japanese soldiers lead by a high ranking officer coming your way. You have one platoon of guerilla with you.
Would you rather kill them or kidnap them to achieve some other objective?
Maybe your conscience is telling you, "no no kidnapping is wrong, killing enemy soldiers is ok but cannot kidnap".
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none of us here are terrorist lovers.Originally posted by MobyDog:Look mate, I'm no Terrorist lover.
On the other hand ..
At least the terrorists are trying to get their leaders and brothers out of prison. Such brotherhood. If they are truly heartless, they will look at the incarcerated as dispensable and fark care them. -
nothing wrogn in getting brothers out of prisonOriginally posted by Icemoon:none of us here are terrorist lovers.
On the other hand ..
At least the terrorists are trying to get their leaders and brothers out of prison. Such brotherhood. If they are truly heartless, they will look at the incarcerated as dispensable and fark care them.
tehy can fight with those carrying guns
but if they start killing the innocent , to me is an act of coward
So does brotherhood have the right to go and kill the innocent
?
No of course it is just an act of coward -
Actually to kill the innocent is not an act of cowardice unless you are comparing killing them with killing armed soldiers.Originally posted by noahnoah:nothing wrogn in getting brothers out of prison
tehy can fight with those carrying guns
but if they start killing the innocent , to me is an act of coward
So does brotherhood have the right to go and kill the innocent
?
No of course it is just an act of coward
You see .. I'm sure the Holy Qu'ran teaches that it is NOT RIGHT to kill innocents, like what they did during 9/11.
For them to disregard Allah's words, it requires great bravado of the opposite kind. I don't know how to explain, but it is like how the pilots of Enola Gay felt or the scientists of the Manhattan Project felt.
Perhaps there is a certain fear in their heart, that Allah will not acknowledge them. Perhaps this is why before they die, they shout "Allah Akbar". Must psycho themselves that they are still in the same league with their God. -
Originally posted by noahnoah:nothing wrogn in getting brothers out of prison
Like all manner of brotherhood - there is this blind and even absolute LOYALTY, and the strong desire to help one another in the 'kinship'. It is human nature - protection of self, family members and specie - not unlike other animals! Remember human is also animal!
But the sad thing is this: those in the brotherhood (often) does not distinguish bad from good, wrong from right, evil from non-evil ......etc.
We see examples in gang triads, association/club/society members, and even in professions like lawyers and doctors. Doctors are very relunctant to testify the wrong-doing or mistake of another doctor! I call this doctorhood.
but if they start killing the innocent , to me is an act of coward
To them, it is act of bravery, courage, self-sacrifice, martyrdom.
So does brotherhood have the right to go and kill the innocent
They can't distinguish right and wrong. They are just blind and not thinking at all. -
If you are a billionaire, you can expect the ransom to match.Originally posted by Icemoon:if you are a billionaire and your child is kidnapped .. I challenge you to say "I will not negotiate with kidnappers".
It is not wrong for a father to want to save his child at all cost, but in this case, the child willingly walked into the lion's den even given prior warnings. The lions in this case are murderers with a history, they will kill and mutilate anyone without any reason.
Should the afgan govt take a step back everytime the Talibans kidnap someone? Is an Afgan life worth any lesser than the life of a South Korean? Should the Govt release a Taliban prisoner whenever someone is taken captive?
If you are an Afgan, how would you feel if the Govt gives in and exchanges the prisoner for the South Koreans, but yet remain indignant when it comes to the life of a Afgan commoner who is in captive? -
I don't quite understand this. If killing the innocent is not an act of cowardice I don't know what is. You know what is bravery? Bravery in this case would be for the Talibans to take up arms and storm the prison.Originally posted by Icemoon:Actually to kill the innocent is not an act of cowardice unless you are comparing killing them with killing armed soldiers.
You see .. I'm sure the Holy Qu'ran teaches that it is NOT RIGHT to kill innocents, like what they did during 9/11.
For them to disregard Allah's words, it requires great bravado of the opposite kind. I don't know how to explain, but it is like how the pilots of Enola Gay felt or the scientists of the Manhattan Project felt.
Perhaps there is a certain fear in their heart, that Allah will not acknowledge them. Perhaps this is why before they die, they shout "Allah Akbar". Must psycho themselves that they are still in the same league with their God.
But of course that would be bravery + stupidity.
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from here, i can see that there are 2 types of people.
project managers and project leaders: one does things right, the other does the right thing. -
Terrorists even have no qualms of blowing themselves up .. what's new?Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:I don't quite understand this. If killing the innocent is not an act of cowardice I don't know what is. You know what is bravery? Bravery in this case would be for the Talibans to take up arms and storm the prison.
But of course that would be bravery + stupidity.
I believe religious terrorists are a little different from political terrorists from yester-years. If the Holy Qu'ran says it is wrong to take an innocent's life, then you got to be very brave to blatantly ignore the word of your God. But for the political terrorist, all they have to deal with is probably their conscience.
I'm interested to read the mind of a religious terrorist. Do they really have a warped view of their Scripture? Or is it a case of fanatically suppressing the good in them? In other words, do they actually realize they are using their God to achieve their aim? Or they sincerely think everything they do is God-mandated, in other words, "right". -
ok la .. visitors deserve better treatment. The Koreans are visitors. You, as an Afghan, are a host.Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:If you are an Afgan, how would you feel if the Govt gives in and exchanges the prisoner for the South Koreans, but yet remain indignant when it comes to the life of a Afgan commoner who is in captive? -
Actually I think I know what is the worst punishment for a religious terrorist.
Not that he will be hanged tomorrow, but that, arguing from his scripture, leave him with no choice but to believe that he is NOT making it to heaven.
"You are not making it to heaven."
"Yes I am .. I will have untold riches and young girls."
"Allah told me you are not."
"Screw your A***h."
"Hor hor .. you scolded our God .. now you are really not making it to heaven." -
Me too, is the name of Allah being used by these people to influence people with weak willpower? My neighbour who is in the committee of a mosque condemns the acts of such terrorists stating that they are contaminating the image of Islam. Surely those people have no rights to say they are carrying out jihad?Originally posted by Icemoon:Terrorists even have no qualms of blowing themselves up .. what's new?
I believe religious terrorists are a little different from political terrorists from yester-years. If the Holy Qu'ran says it is wrong to take an innocent's life, then you got to be very brave to blatantly ignore the word of your God. But for the political terrorist, all they have to deal with is probably their conscience.
I'm interested to read the mind of a religious terrorist. Do they really have a warped view of their Scripture? Or is it a case of fanatically suppressing the good in them? In other words, do they actually realize they are using their God to achieve their aim? Or they sincerely think everything they do is God-mandated, in other words, "right". -
If Darth Vader can turn back from the dark side 'cos of the good of Luke, then it is possible for these people to turn back and for Allah to embrace them. I say embrace 'cos I'm reminded of the parable of the prodigal son.Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:Me too, is the name of Allah being used by these people to influence people with weak willpower? My neighbour who is in the committee of a mosque condemns the acts of such terrorists stating that they are contaminating the image of Islam. Surely those people have no rights to say they are carrying out jihad?
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Hehe watch too much Star Wars la you...Originally posted by Icemoon:If Darth Vader can turn back from the dark side 'cos of the good of Luke, then it is possible for these people to turn back and for Allah to embrace them. I say embrace 'cos I'm reminded of the parable of the prodigal son. -
"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering".Originally posted by bigmouthjoe:Hehe watch too much Star Wars la you...
I think the quote by Yoda applies to the terrorists too. It started with fear. And now we have suffering. -
Already got so many, say this for example from the 6th Hadith Qudsi:Originally posted by Icemoon:Actually I think I know what is the worst punishment for a religious terrorist.
Not that he will be hanged tomorrow, but that, arguing from his scripture, leave him with no choice but to believe that he is NOT making it to heaven.
"You are not making it to heaven."
"Yes I am .. I will have untold riches and young girls."
"Allah told me you are not."
"Screw your A***h."
"Hor hor .. you scolded our God .. now you are really not making it to heaven."
On the day of judgment, God shall first summon those who died a martyr. God will ask, "How did you spend your life which I gave you?" They will reply, "We sacrificed it in Your path." God and the angels will say, "You are liars, you did but fight so people might call you brave and style you martyrs. Then they will be ordered to be dragged along on their face until they are cast into Hell-fire. Lol. Ouch.
But they don't care. The fundies actions have shown they are bullies. They're not interested in offering individual spiritual enlightenment, but to maintain the idealogical praxis of their impotent and illiterate "Holy Law" system (which is sometimes backed by certain superpowered nations for selfish benefit).
See this dude below?
He's a scholar who tried to reform the rape laws in Pakistan. What happened to him? Shot in the face by fundies while walking alone at night. Hohoho. -
hmm. what's the situation now? the news stopped reporting about them already..
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TRY TO CHANGE THE WORLD
WITH AN ACT OF RANDOM KINDNESS AT A TIME -
So unfair, why no pick females?Originally posted by casvel:So far 2 males. They havent touch females yet
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females are the triumph cards mah.Originally posted by cyberr1981:So unfair, why no pick females? -
Taliban say two South Korean hostages freed
Posted: 11 August 2007 2323 hrs
GHAZNI, Afghanistan - Afghanistan's Taliban said Saturday it has freed two women among 21 South Korean hostages captured more than three weeks ago by the hardline militia.
Two spokesman for the insurgents said both women were ill and had been freed unconditionally as a "gesture of goodwill," just hours after the conclusion of face-to-face talks between the Taliban and a South Korean delegation.
Neither Afghan nor South Korean officials would immediately confirm any hostage release.
"Our leadership council decided to free unconditionally and as a gesture of goodwill two women hostages who are sick," said the main Taliban spokesman, Yousuf Ahmadi.
Ahmadi said they might not yet have arrived at the point where they would be handed over to authorities "due to some transportation difficulty."
"But what I can tell you is the leadership council has said they must be freed, so they're freed," he said.
Taliban representatives and the South Koreans met in the southern town of Ghazni, 140 kilometres (90 miles) south of the capital Kabul.
The hardline rebels abducted 23 Koreans on July 19. They later shot dead two of the Christian aid workers and had threatened to murder more if demands for the release of Taliban prisoners from jail were not met.
Another Taliban spokesman, Zabihullah Mujahed, confirmed the decision to free the women, saying their release would "show that we're honest in our talks and expect the government to be honest and free our prisoners".
The police chief of Ghazni, Alishah Ahmadzai, said earlier there had been an agreement to free "some" of the hostages, but other officials would not confirm this.
The two Taliban representatives who were party to the talks said Saturday they were "optimistic" but reiterated their prisoner-swap demand, a condition the government has repeatedly rejected.
"The hostages will be freed if the government accepts our demands to free some prisoners," one of the negotiators, Qari Bashir, said outside the offices of the Afghan Red Crescent Society where the talks were held.
"If they accept our demands, maybe they'll be freed today or tomorrow," he said at what amounted to the Taliban's first press conference in several years.
The Taliban, who have been waging an insurgency since being toppled from government in 2001, usually speak to reporters through spokesmen who make telephone contact from undisclosed locations.
With talks with the Afghan government apparently deadlocked over the demand for a prisoner exchange, direct negotiations between the rebels and the South Korean team have been seen as one of the last hopes for the hostages' release.
The 23 South Korean aid workers were abducted in Ghazni province while travelling on a key highway which many foreigners consider a no-go area because of a general decline in security.
The Taliban are also linked to a militant group holding a German engineer and four Afghans captured in Wardak province near Kabul the day before the abduction of the South Koreans.
The militants have demanded a prisoner exchange for the 62-year-old engineer, who was captured with another German who was shot dead days later.
The hardliners were in government between 1996 and 2001, when they were driven out by a US-led coalition for sheltering Al-Qaeda -- blamed for the 9/11 attacks that year. - AFP/ir/ls -
Gesture of goodwill? Are they pigs or what? Sorry I insulted pigs.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Two spokesman for the insurgents said both women were ill and had been freed unconditionally as a "gesture of goodwill," just hours after the conclusion of face-to-face talks between the Taliban and a South Korean delegation.
It's like... I come your place, rob your house, take all your furniture and then give you back your dining table and call it a goodwill.
I hope they get sodomised by pigs.
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You forget the other half of the analogy - I took your furniture first.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Gesture of goodwill? Are they pigs or what? Sorry I insulted pigs.
It's like... I come your place, rob your house, take all your furniture and then give you back your dining table and call it a goodwill.
I hope they get sodomised by pigs.