Are singapore pastors millionaires?
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Yes they live reasonably comfortable lives.
If at a modest traditional church where pastors can earn 5k to 8k per month and have their petrol and hp bills all subsidised by the church, then imagine what those pastors at chc and newcreation earn......... -
You know, I think Kong refuses to release that data. WHY?!
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I don't see why people love to gossip and stir up rumours around. To get the thrill of debating over it? Because it's fun to?
And many posters in this thread just simply loves to quote from bible passages they heard of, yet know nothing behind it.
Yea sure, some churches may have pastors which are more influential and richer than other pastors, but does that mean they should be condemned for not living a life of "sacrifice and toil"? I don't see why they cannot be rich when their goals are clear. They want to reach out to the people in the higher end of society. And to do that, naturally, it would be easier to do so with more affluence.
How are you going to preach about a sermon on God providing abundantly, when you are a pastor that strives to earn enough for a month? And even if you could, who do you think the businessman will listen to? The pastor with more affluence?
There are churches today with many different callings. Some may be called to save the poor. Others, perhaps, the hard materialistic world of business.
Did Jesus not sat with the taxpayers(who were considered cheats as they could collect any amount they want) and fellowshipped with them. And what did the people questioned him? Why does he sit with the sinners? It is not the healthy that requires treatment, but the sick. -
Sorry for the double post. Was reading through the other pages.
798, you seem the most amusing person to date that posts in this thread. A search of your name in the forum brings reference to many threads with "exciting names of girls" and etc.
I agree that there may be black sheeps in Christianity, and people should not be blamed for doubting it. But it really is another thing to base your thoughts and values on something you only know on the skin.
Like seeing someone with a face you 'dont like", and just shooting him down because of it. -
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This is like saying that to reach out to the thieves, you have to be a robber.Originally posted by Black_Pen:Yea sure, some churches may have pastors which are more influential and richer than other pastors, but does that mean they should be condemned for not living a life of "sacrifice and toil"? I don't see why they cannot be rich when their goals are clear. They want to reach out to the people in the higher end of society. And to do that, naturally, it would be easier to do so with more affluence.
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at least think before you write mah...
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The Tithes
hey blackpen, you're serioursly wrong. The problem with some churches are wrong doctrines pertaining to the collection of tithes. It has been twisted to the way to portray as you give offerings abundantly, God will bless you abundantly too. But for those who do not tithe, will not receive the same level of blessings.
Who are we to help God decide how much blessings he should give to who. And who are we to bargain with God on his blessings.
What is the significance of tithes
At the same time, tithes are not as simple as the 10% God stated in the bible. What God wants is absolute obedience. When you're giving the 10%, are you sure you have no bad blood with any person? If you have, put the money at the side of the altar, go and make peace first before your return the money into the altar. Therefore every week you're supposed to be reflecting on your deeds before you give. And not automatically give for the sake of giving!
There is absolutely nothing wrong in being blessed with prosperity. But it is how the person prosper that makes the difference. By devil or by God.
I'd not judge how the people who play around with the tithes meant for God. But remember the story of what happened to Achan who embezzled money meant to return to God.
Use of Tongues
On top of that, those who insisted that all speak in tongues. Have they understood what is tongues? And how to speak in tongues? Read the whole of 1COR14. It is a dummy's guide to how to speak in tongues. And note the difference with some of the current churches today.
Some people may argue that God speaks in mysteries that we do not understand. And these form the base of our tongues. But this mysteries that some churches define as is not the right way. God is not a fool. God does not make people blabber in nonsense that no one understands. The mysteries that God is speaking is the profound knowledge which makes sense to us yet we do not see the meaning without his help. And not gibbberish nonsense.
Who should preach?
It has been stated in the bible that no woman should preach. Woman can help out everything in the church expect being a pastor. But how many churches and which churches are breeching this law that God has stated?
The current diversion of churches
The basic fundamentals have been treated as non existance. The bible has been perceived in a perversed way for the sake of benefits. Who are the ones doing that?
I believe you're well aware of what is the price of poking fun of God. Let those who do it answer to God themselves. The rest have done their part to advise and warn. But if the fool insisted to be right and let him reap what he sowed when he pass away from here.
Real Blessings
Life with only Wealth & health on this earth does not mark the blessings of God. Some may endure cancer and poverty yet maintains his faith in God are those who triumph. For those who endure through trials are the blessed ones. They will receive the crown of life. For God does not tempt. God disciplines.
Difference of Trials and temptations
Temptations are by the devil to cause sin. Trials are from God to build growth.
For the rest of my christian friends,
I have said enough. The charismatic movement is moving in the direction of asking for trouble by challenging God. I went through the stage of blind stubborness in the charismatic movement before. Utterly brainwashed and unsaved. And no one on earth was able to open my eyes. Only God was able to. There're many people who have left charismatic churches now wandering around in their spiritual life. The harvest is plenty. Go out and spread the right gospel to them. And let's not waste time like my late-father who wasted 60 years of his life only to reconcile with God at his death bed.
Spread the gospel not by hard sell. But by good daily conduct. So that non believers who sees your conduct may be convinced of the greatness of Christianity. The believers who sees your good conduct may be encouraged. Do not do anything to cause your christian friends to stumble. Because if you do that, you're working for the devil to create temptations.
God bless you all. -
you aren't any better, friend.Originally posted by Black_Pen:Sorry for the double post. Was reading through the other pages.
798, you seem the most amusing person to date that posts in this thread. A search of your name in the forum brings reference to many threads with "exciting names of girls" and etc.
your reply is ad hominem.
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Achan sounds like some Japanese fellow.Originally posted by MS:I'd not judge how the people who play around with the tithes meant for God. But remember the story of what happened to Achan who embezzled money meant to return to God.
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yah. Sounds like 'ah chan' if pronounced wrongly.Originally posted by Icemoon:Achan sounds like some Japanese fellow.
But correctly pronounced as 'eh-ken'.
But he's in the old testament. He & his wife embezzled money from a sieged city which specific instructions have been given by God on how to deal with the money. -
some of the names in bible sounds weird
My fav is still Abraham
Abra - ham
I love ham
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Who should preach?
It has been stated in the bible that no woman should preach. Woman can help out everything in the church except being a pastor. But how many churches and which churches are breeching this law that God has stated?
i'm sorry. typo error in my earlier post. -
Originally posted by MS:
there are too many laws in the bible
[b]Who should preach?
It has been stated in the bible that no woman should preach. Woman can help out everything in the church except being a pastor. But how many churches and which churches are breeching this law that God has stated?
i'm sorry. typo error in my earlier post.[/b]
beside this there are more breaching of laws
that you might not even know
I pesonally already broke the laws until i miscount -
Originally posted by MS:
why don't you edit your earlier post instead?
[b]Who should preach?
It has been stated in the bible that no woman should preach. Woman can help out everything in the church except being a pastor. But how many churches and which churches are breeching this law that God has stated?
i'm sorry. typo error in my earlier post.[/b] -
Laws are man-made and meant to be broken when it doesn't make sense... just saying that these man-made laws are God's laws, does not make them so... if it were God's laws, It (cannot say He/She in case someone asks if God has a penis or breasts or not...) can write it in the sky for everyone to see and to remind everyone It's laws....
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The reason why ppl flame chc badly is just because its a rich church,they don understand the meaning of tithe and god giving back in abundance
Please,if u do not know anything about christianity,please just shut up -
Perhaps it is not about tithing but the way it is collected and used? I have shown the Jewish and Muslim system of tithing; it seems that their system does not invite that much criticism.Originally posted by 4794:The reason why ppl flame chc badly is just because its a rich church,they don understand the meaning of tithe and god giving back in abundance
Please,if u do not know anything about christianity,please just shut up
Btw .. a few of us here do know something about Christianity.
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yes,i agree that the way they collect and use is not that clear but do u guys know how they use with the money? If you guys don know than stop flamming the pastorsOriginally posted by Icemoon:Perhaps it is not about tithing but the way it is collected and used? I have shown the Jewish and Muslim system of tithing; it seems that their system does not invite that much criticism.
Btw .. a few of us here do know something about Christianity. -
which is why I tried to show CHC is involved in community service too.Originally posted by 4794:yes,i agree that the way they collect and use is not that clear but do u guys know how they use with the money? If you guys don know than stop flamming the pastors
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And i say at least 2 times that some part of the money is to send ppl to other countries to spread the word of godOriginally posted by Icemoon:which is why I tried to show CHC is involved in community service too.
Despite of me repeating it twice,some of them still want to flame
Their mind is becoming "flame CHC" "flame CHC" -
why ppl are so keen abt finances of churches? more church members more finances mah. if want to know abt transparency of church..go and attend the church lor..the members should be explained of the yearly income and expenses. dun understand why church has to justify to non-church members.
i remember there is a commissioner of charities or dunno wat requesting for financial accounts churches/temples...wait for tat to satisfy the KPO-ness of people bah. -
I refrain from using that example. Evangelising probably means nothing more than imposing the Christian view on others to them.Originally posted by 4794:And i say at least 2 times that some part of the money is to send ppl to other countries to spread the word of god
Despite of me repeating it twice,some of them still want to flame
Their mind is becoming "flame CHC" "flame CHC"
You do better if you elaborate a bit on the nature of those missions. Not sure about CHC's missions, but the ones I know are pretty noble. In fact, they sound nothing like evangelising. Evangelism seems to have taken a backseat. I'm talking about those orphanages and rehabilitation centers built by Christian missionaries.
In short, the money is spent on improving the lives of people in those 'third-world' areas. The actual preaching doesn't cost much. How much does it cost to purchase a bible and give a sermon? -
how would i know?Originally posted by Icemoon:I refrain from using that example. Evangelising probably means nothing more than imposing the Christian view on others to them.
You do better if you elaborate a bit on the nature of those missions. Not sure about CHC's missions, but the ones I know are pretty noble. In fact, they sound nothing like evangelising. Evangelism seems to have taken a backseat. I'm talking about those orphanages and rehabilitation centers built by Christian missionaries.
In short, the money is spent on improving the lives of people in those 'third-world' areas. The actual preaching doesn't cost much. How much does it cost to purchase a bible and give a sermon? -
that's why .. you shouldn't have used that example.Originally posted by 4794:how would i know?