What if there really is no "You"
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ok...if i die first.....i will haunt you to death to prove that i exist....Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:..."the ability to think and reason and control the desires and nature of our bodily need" does not mean that a soul and spirit exist because "the ability to think and reason and control the desires and nature of our bodily need" disappears with the demise of the body.
... yes and spirit and soul is just made up so that big children will behave...
we'll just wait for that time to come shall we? give me your address so that i can find you....
if i dun haunt you it means that i do not exist...fair enough?
why dun you say that matters do not exist? -
All you've proven with that statement is that you're incapable of learning and have no clue about what you've been going on about.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:apparently you use them but have no understanding of what they mean and so you have no way to describe in your owns words, what the concepts are talking about at ground level... it is pointless to try showing off with big words if you do not understand what they mean... and cannot translate them into everyday language...
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... so if scientist cannot explain them, you can then choose to believe anything you like, and suicide bombers are justified in doing what they do because "there are many things that scientists cannot explain"?Originally posted by Deino:our knowledge are limited.....there are many things that scientists cannot explain becoz they dun have the knowledge to.....
can scientist explain the oopart?
these are all ofcourse asumptions....but many assumptions tend to be true.....
do you believe that a puddle of mud left for a billion years could turn into a self thought and reasoning human?
if the kids are smart.....which i believe kids nowadays are....they would take a handy spycam to record it all night.....
.. what makes your belief any superior to that of the suicide bombers?
... there are many evidence showing that "a puddle of mud left for a billion years could turn into a self thought and reasoning human" but there are zero evidence to show that man has a soul and a spirit...
...and no kid is stupid enough to use a spy-cam to try to prove evolution.... they would be smart enough to look at the evidence...
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Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
Now I see why your threads are always 10~20+ pages long
From earliest ancient times, the Hindus, then the Jews, suggested that man has a soul, an Atman, a spirit that remains when the body disintegrate.
Buddhists even, cannot imagine that man is non-existing because they suggest that karma is brought forward into a future life and non-existence actualizes only on the attainment of nirvana. All planned well...
Buddhism has NEVER suggested that an agent or self passes on to the next life.
"Mere suffering is, not any sufferer is found
The deeds exist, but no performer of the deeds:
Nibbana is, but not the man that enters it,
The path is, but no wanderer is to be seen.
No doer of the deeds is found,
No one who ever reaps their fruits,
Empty phenomena roll on,
This view alone is right and true.
No god, no Brahma, may be called,
The maker of this wheel of life,
Empty phenomena roll on,
Dependent on conditions all."
- Visuddhimagga XVI 90
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So if there is no self, does that mean our actions are of no consequence the next moment, the next day, or the next life?
No! Karmic conquences happen nonetheless. That is why we must be careful of what we do.
Then who is to receive the karma? 'Who' is based on a fundemental false assumption that there must be an entity or a self to 'receive' karma. Karmic consequences simply arises without a receiver.
Birth and rebirth happens, but not the reincarnation of a soul. Becoming happens all the time, but there is no 'what' or 'who' that becomes. There is simply arising and subsiding, self1, self2, self3, self4, 'self' conventionally meant to be mental and karmic factors, but never is there a fixed self or owner of those factors to be found.
As Thusness wrote three years ago trying to explain certain texts,
Life (Self) is nothing other than the continuous flow of the Now Moment.
The Now Moment ceases as it arises. This moment must completely ceased
and serves as the CAUSE for the next moment to arise.
Therefore Self is a process of series Self1, Self2, Self3, Self4, Self5, Self6...etc
A fixed entity 'Self' does not exist, what really exists is a momentary Self.
Under deep meditation, one is able to observe and sense the karmic and mental factors from moment to moment,
it is these factors that are succeeded from moment to moment and life and life but not a fixed entity.
When the karmic and mental factors subsides, it is known as "The True and Only (and Inherently egoless) Conscious Light (Itself)". -
oh please.... there are many that died a horrible unjustified death and if they could, they would have many more reasons to haunt people on earth... you are talking about stories (like Santa Claus) to frighten children and behaving like a kid.Originally posted by Deino:ok...if i die first.....i will haunt you to death to prove that i exist....
we'll just wait for that time to come shall we? give me your address so that i can find you....
if i dun haunt you it means that i do not exist...fair enough?
why dun you say that matters do not exist?
... hahaha you believe that as a ghost, you cannot find me and you need directions? -
... and you think that just because you can google out some big words, people will be impressed with you? Grow up...Originally posted by Demonight:All you've proven with that statement is that you're incapable of learning and have no clue about what you've been going on about. -
Originally posted by An Eternal Now:
You believe in Karma that is carried on to the next life or not?
Now I see why your threads are always 10~20+ pages long All planned well...
Buddhism has NEVER suggested that an agent or self passes on to the next life.
"Mere suffering is, not any sufferer is found
The deeds exist, but no performer of the deeds:
Nibbana is, but not the man that enters it,
The path is, but no wanderer is to be seen.
No doer of the deeds is found,
No one who ever reaps their fruits,
Empty phenomena roll on,
This view alone is right and true.
No god, no Brahma, may be called,
The maker of this wheel of life,
Empty phenomena roll on,
Dependent on conditions all."
- Visuddhimagga XVI 90
---------
So if there is no self, does that mean our actions are of no consequence the next moment, the next day, or the next life?
No! Karmic conquences happen nonetheless. That is why we must be careful of what we do.
Then who is to receive the karma? 'Who' is based on a fundemental false assumption that there must be an entity or a self to 'receive' karma. Karmic consequences simply arises without a receiver.
Birth and rebirth happens, but not the reincarnation of a soul. Becoming happens all the time, but there is no 'what' or 'who' that becomes. There is simply arising and subsiding, self1, self2, self3, self4, 'self' conventionally meant to be mental and karmic factors, but never is there a fixed self or owner of those factors to be found.
As Thusness wrote three years ago trying to explain certain texts,
Life (Self) is nothing other than the continuous flow of the Now Moment.
The Now Moment ceases as it arises. This moment must completely ceased
and serves as the CAUSE for the next moment to arise.
Therefore Self is a process of series Self1, Self2, Self3, Self4, Self5, Self6...etc
A fixed entity 'Self' does not exist, what really exists is a momentary Self.
Under deep meditation, one is able to observe and sense the karmic and mental factors from moment to moment,
[b]it is these factors that are succeeded from moment to moment and life and life but not a fixed entity.
When the karmic and mental factors subsides, it is known as "The True and Only (and Inherently egoless) Conscious Light (Itself)".[/b] -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
That is the wrong understanding of Nirvana.
[b]and non-existence actualizes only on the attainment of nirvana.
Nirvana in Buddhism has nothing to do with annihilation but 'cessation'.
Cessation is the absence of causes for future arising. Annihilation is the destruction of an existent thing -- the two ideas are very, very different. -
Yes. But karma is not an entity, but a process.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:You believe in Karma that is carried on to the next life or not? -
close thread please
he is getting irritating -
Google didn't even cross my mind genius. I took 2 semesters of Philosophy and I got distinctions for the subject. How about you?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:... and you think that just because you can google out some big words, people will be impressed with you? Grow up... 
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Originally posted by gigabyte14:
close thread please
he is getting irritating
I welcome AndrewPKYap to post in my forum if this thread ever gets closed
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... the thing is, if you believe that the "self" is a composite (non-inherent) then what is that which is carried over to the next life? If you do not believe that "something" is carried over to the next life, than why do you believe in Karma that is carried forward?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:That is the wrong understanding of Nirvana.
Nirvana in Buddhism has nothing to do with annihilation but 'cessation'.
Cessation is the absence of causes for future arising. Annihilation is the destruction of an existent thing -- the two ideas are very, very different. -
aiyaOriginally posted by AndrewPKYap:... the thing is, if you believe that the "self" is a composite (non-inherent) then what is that which is carried over to the next life? If you do not believe that "something" is carried over to the next life, than why do you believe in Karma that is carried forward?
if you keep thinking like this
then go kill yourself la
wtf -
... you can always don't click on this thread...Originally posted by gigabyte14:
close thread please
he is getting irritating -
aiya his argument flip flops all over the place. Just think of Andrew as a gelatinous massOriginally posted by gigabyte14:aiya
if you keep thinking like this
then go kill yourself la
wtf -
... why, I am happier than you apparently... you have the erroneous idea that if you can see the true nature of your existence, then you will want to kill yourself...Originally posted by gigabyte14:aiya
if you keep thinking like this
then go kill yourself la
wtf
... why do you think that? -
sure, you lose the debate and the argument, you resort to name - calling... typical clone...Originally posted by Demonight:aiya his argument flip flops all over the place. Just think of Andrew as a gelatinous mass -
You can't lose what you don't have my friend. To have a debate and an argument you have to take a stance. And you are standing on the narrow line between pro and con. Besides, since there is no 'you' how could I possibly lose an argument against someone who doesn't exist?Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:sure, you lose the debate and the argument, you resort to name - calling... typical clone... -
Unker ar ,You go to cosplay took a lot of nice pictures and now you say you dont exist? :roll
shaking head) -
I think, therefore, I am.
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... but exists as a composite of neurons, body parts, thoughts and feelings... and don't bother to try to understand that, you are too dense...Originally posted by Demonight:You can't lose what you don't have my friend. To have a debate and an argument you have to take a stance. And you are standing on the narrow line between pro and con. Besides, since there is no 'you' how could I possibly lose an argument against someone who doesn't exist? -
you are so stupid... when and where did I say I went to the cosplay event? When someone starts a thread in sgforums, it is the same thing as he went to the cosplay event? OMG, are you insane?Originally posted by Short Ninja:Unker ar ,You go to cosplay took a lot of nice pictures and now you say you dont exist? :rollshaking head) -
Wrong understanding of Descartes... Descartes did not mean it that way. But neither does Descartes see the 'complete picture'.Originally posted by sexyfats:I think, therefore, I am.
See: Descartes: Reviving the West's Greatest Modern Vedantist -
... but your thoughts come from neurons in your brain.... and are the neurons "you" ?Originally posted by sexyfats:I think, therefore, I am.